00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.04.25 00:24:31 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:46:20 --- quit: cookin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:01:22 --- join: ody (~agr@ironwood.parrswood.manchester.sch.uk) joined #osdev 01:32:48 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 01:41:43 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 01:43:32 --- join: derek24 (dsf@216.40.218.21) joined #osdev 01:52:06 --- quit: witten ("brb") 01:53:40 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-210-121.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 01:55:02 --- quit: derek24 () 02:13:53 --- quit: ink (Remote closed the connection) 02:17:37 --- join: corsairk8 (~localhost@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 02:32:33 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:58:22 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 03:53:42 i just got a vision 03:53:47 why not... when naming devices 03:53:49 call things like.. 03:54:39 for physical drives: hd(0), hd(1), hd(2), fd(0), fd(1), scsi(1), scsi(2)... 03:55:10 for partitions: fat32(0), fat32(1), ext2(0), omk(0), omk(1)... 03:55:35 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 03:55:46 sounds much simpler :) 04:11:17 --- join: lynx (~lynx@p5080933A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 04:20:30 --- quit: Delphinus () 04:20:35 --- nick: lynx -> lynx_f00d 04:26:55 * eks throws a bunch of carrots at lynx 04:28:07 eks!! 04:28:10 <-- no bunny 04:28:18 <-- eating weaselstyle pizza 04:28:32 eheh 04:28:58 lynx_f00d: I downloaded the QNX iso in 14.5 minutes ! 04:29:03 (the 452MB one..) 04:29:18 ?????????????????????? 04:29:21 how?= 04:29:25 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:29:32 using my net connection here and lynx :P 04:29:40 what connection? 04:29:44 cable 04:29:48 BAH 04:29:53 >:} 04:29:55 * lynx_f00d shows eks his back 04:30:07 * eks shows lynx his tongue 04:30:22 hrmpf 04:30:26 *burp* 04:30:39 eks : code an os with me! 04:30:55 lynx_f00d: nah, I already have a pc emulator to code 04:32:00 bah 04:32:06 there are tons of pc emulators 04:32:14 nobody writes a good homegrown os 04:32:23 everyone is coding pc emulators 04:33:47 lolol 04:34:02 everybody I know write its own homegrown os 04:34:11 ppl stick to whatever cheap emulator they always had 04:34:26 propaganda 04:34:33 but 04:34:35 i am convinced 04:37:28 * eks gives lynx a blueberry muffin 04:37:46 heh 04:37:49 thanx =)) 04:40:05 --- nick: lynx_f00d -> lynx 04:40:15 mmm... blueberry muffin. 04:40:58 * eks gives one to rob_ert too 04:42:23 mmm... /me grows 04:42:44 I'll soon be as fat as uncle eks :D 04:43:39 arg 04:43:45 i got banned from #kernelnewbies 04:43:52 and you know why? 04:45:00 because i sent a ctcp ping to a bot 04:45:01 arg 04:45:04 some people are so stupid 04:46:06 Hehe 04:47:29 corsairk8: if you sent one it might have been a bit excessive of their part, but if you sent more than one, it was stupid of you ;) 04:47:30 my god 04:47:34 banned again for ctcp version 04:47:40 uhm 04:47:42 eks, dont beleive me 04:47:45 goto #kernelnewbies 04:47:52 send him 1 ctcp version or ping 04:47:56 Linus_ hes an op 04:47:57 * eks is not a kernel newbie :p 04:47:57 and watch 04:48:03 lol eks ;) 04:50:02 --- quit: nbsp (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:50:35 or perhaps you dont beleive me eks 04:50:39 i was just prooving 04:50:43 a single ctcp request would do it 04:50:50 imo, thats WAY too harsh 04:51:46 oh my god!! 04:51:51 simply sending a message causes a ban 04:51:52 my days 04:51:58 this is amazing 04:52:49 ;) 04:53:27 * eks wonders how someone can be banned 3 times from a chan... 04:53:58 lol eks 04:54:08 Only corsairk8 knows the secret :) 04:54:17 ive got banned like 10 times 04:54:25 but actually its because i simply sent him a privmsg and a notice 04:54:27 about 2 times 04:54:35 and then, before that i ctcp pinged it and did a version 04:54:36 Hehe 04:54:56 screams of lameness if you ask me ;) 04:55:06 apparently, "it's designed to catch people messaging the entire channel" and "it's something the channel owners don't really approve of." 04:55:26 they are quite right 04:55:40 messaging a channel or pinging an entire channel is not proper 04:56:11 Versioning a whole channel 5 times is certainly nothing they like, corsairk8. 04:56:57 eks: I pinged 1 person!!! 04:57:00 i pinged the bot himself 04:57:11 he still banned me 04:57:24 simply doing /notice Linus_ will get you banned 04:57:54 /msg lilo i 4m d4 l33r cr4><0rz!!!! 04:58:20 ohps, i just sent that 04:58:24 stupid!!! 04:58:25 nooo 04:58:32 ;D 04:58:36 its not fair 04:58:39 stupid mirc 04:58:55 * corsairk8 hopes he isnt there to receive it 04:59:01 corsairk8: Did you find any kiddie porn, btw? 04:59:17 nahp 04:59:19 --- nick: lynx -> lynx_buzzy 04:59:21 You were...uh...searching for it the other day. 04:59:26 but i read about a cool hacking group that targets kiddie porn 04:59:32 l8r 04:59:34 * eks gives lynx_buzzy an electrical shock 04:59:36 i thought i should not hack, except for test servers i setup myself 04:59:37 bye lynx 05:00:13 infact 05:00:16 i shouldnt even be talking now 05:00:16 corsairk8: you can't hack even if your life depended on it 05:00:23 ;) 05:00:31 ive heard in the news, that uk authorities are arresting people talking about kp 05:00:31 They had a report on the news today about the computer security of the public institutions here 05:00:35 hehe, your probably right eks 05:00:48 --- quit: lynx_buzzy ("[BX] Yo quiero BitchX") 05:00:53 * rob_ert arrests corsairk8 05:01:00 * rob_ert also agrees with eks 05:01:01 lol 05:01:04 * eks goes to work, l8r 05:01:04 i agree too!! 05:01:07 i dont wanna be a hack0r 05:01:08 --- quit: eks ("work time!") 05:01:09 What eks said has been said 1000 times before. 05:01:11 Hehe 05:01:13 i shoudlnt have messaged that to lilo 05:01:16 (i wasnt joking) 05:01:20 is there any way to undo a msg? 05:01:32 DoS his computer? 05:01:37 how can i do that? 05:01:53 WinNuke? I'm sure lilo runs Win 95 05:02:01 okay, where can i download that from? 05:03:05 * rob_ert thinks corsairk8 should stop messing around with rob_ert. 05:03:33 lol 05:03:46 darn, almost nabbed you for distributing hax links ;) 05:04:16 I'll sell you to a pedofile if you behave bad once more! 05:05:05 has anyone seen nothing return here? 05:05:27 Don't remember... 05:05:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o corsairk8 05:05:33 you dont remember!?! 05:05:34 j/k 05:05:39 That link he posted was quite nasty 05:05:42 --- mode: corsairk8 set -bbb n_!*@* nothing!*@* *!*@*.pa.comcast.net 05:05:42 --- mode: corsairk8 set -b *!*~nothing@*.pa.comcast.net 05:05:47 i agree 05:05:51 --- mode: corsairk8 set -b *!*Alonzo@*.dialup.rcn.com 05:05:59 it almost made my sick 05:06:14 --- mode: corsairk8 set -o corsairk8 05:06:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o rob_ert 05:06:23 --- mode: rob_ert set +b *!*@*.au 05:06:26 :P 05:06:27 lol 05:06:34 --- mode: rob_ert set -b *!*@*.au 05:06:38 --- mode: rob_ert set -o rob_ert 05:06:46 Nah, I'm not that racistic ;P 05:07:28 * corsairk8 deleted akicks 05:07:59 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@winton.ee.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 05:08:06 hi pavlovskii 05:08:09 Hej 05:08:15 hi all 05:08:22 just finished my first exam 05:08:25 cool 05:08:59 :) 05:09:45 So... did you know who ruled Sweden from 1611 to 1632? :) 05:11:17 King Sven III? 05:11:23 George Bush! 05:11:25 that's what I wrote anyway :) 05:11:38 King Daka Of Ze Island Of Pynikone! 05:11:38 no, it was Digital System Design 05:11:46 it was King Daka! 05:13:26 Bah 05:13:31 Gustav II Adolf 05:14:03 You need education .) 05:15:00 lol 05:15:02 hmm, do all Swedish kings use infix little-endian order like that? 05:15:18 their names, that is 05:15:21 education is evil 05:15:50 these days, history graduates just want a degree, and forget everything they learn once they pass the test :) 05:16:44 and as i always say, hsitorians are living in the past 05:16:49 history is cool, but history lessons aren't (weren't) 05:16:52 we all know why they have huge stacks of books for reference :) 05:16:55 i agree pavlovskii 05:17:01 almost all school history lessons are dry 05:17:22 i know a guy who is quite knowledgable in history (although surprisingly, he doesnt work much, nor is he that good in much other subjects) 05:17:33 and he basically thinks most gcse history is boring 05:26:53 right, I started being interested in history when I came to university, yet I hated it at school (and was apparently not very good at it) 05:27:01 nothing has been idle 7hrs 57mins 15secs, signed on Wed Apr 24 04:15:29 05:27:20 hehe i see pavlovskii 05:27:26 i think modern history is what bores me most 05:27:34 I like modern history 05:27:39 really? 05:27:43 anything WW1 onwards interests me 05:27:46 lol 05:27:49 opposite for me 05:28:05 i love the egyptians, romans, aztecs, babylonians 05:28:09 all the greek mythology 05:28:33 hmm, I prefer the stuff that has a direct relation to the modern world 05:28:35 i might have actually wanted to be an archiologist had i not had such a high interesting in computing 05:28:44 pavlovskii, you dont think that has a direct relation? 05:28:51 without these things, society would be MUCH different 05:28:55 OK, I guess the Babylonians have quite a bit of effect on us 05:29:04 yes they do actually 05:29:08 we still use roman numerals today 05:29:11 greek letetrs in maths 05:29:22 latin is what english is based no 05:29:25 and thats just the start 05:29:27 but, say, WW2 defines Britain today more than the Romans do 05:29:41 i disgree 05:29:55 the fact that the romans exist or not may very well affect the outcome of ww2 05:30:04 in this example, emphasis on "Britain" 05:30:10 the further back in time you go, the more the impact on the present there is 05:30:31 hehe 05:30:37 i hate all this modern history anyway ;) 05:30:42 it completely bores me 05:30:46 right, had the Romans not existed, we could well be speaking some Persian dialect, or we'd all be Arabic 05:30:49 i mean, i practically know everything 05:30:55 yet im forced to memorise dates, events, all that 05:31:06 i should think that knowing a rough outline of what happened would be enough 05:31:17 rather than having to know as much as the people living there 05:31:36 corsairk8: did you know it was "Armenian Genocide Memorial Day" yesterday? 05:31:46 really? 05:31:48 the Armenian Genocide, 23/04/1915 05:32:00 oh, thought that was todo with world trade center 05:32:02 1.5 million Armenians get killed by the Russians and buried 05:32:03 hmm, thats quite bad 05:32:09 ohps, Armenian, not america ;) 05:32:17 who are armenians? 05:32:20 no, it was the Ottomans 05:32:26 lol 05:32:32 ive lost you 05:32:41 the Ottomans killed Armenians, who live in Armenia 05:32:59 which IIRC borders with Romania today 05:33:12 and what was the USSR but is some crappy little republic today 05:33:59 oh 05:34:05 yeh 05:34:08 however, I don't think this has a lot of effect on today's society, except causing the closure of the Armenian Embassy 05:34:14 curse those russians 05:35:02 no, I'm pretty sure now it was the Ottomans (i.e. Turks) who murdered the Armenians; it was the Russians who killed the Poles 05:35:28 here's a bit of modern history irony: 05:35:52 the Israelis, who, as Jews, had Israel created in 1948 after the horrors of WW2 05:35:57 ok 05:36:01 yuh 05:36:04 --- join: Del|Home (~delphinus@61-217-215-229.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #osdev 05:36:10 are now using virtually identical street fighting tactics to the Nazis in WW2 05:36:29 street fighting? 05:36:34 such as? 05:37:01 in WW2, the Germans weren't concerned about saving property, only about destroying the enemy 05:37:31 so in order to take a town, they would slowly destroy buildings from the outside, using flamethrowers on their occupants 05:37:55 basically, using tanks and demolition vehicles to knock down walls in order to capture/burn the occupants 05:38:15 this is disturbingly similar to techniques the Israeli army have been using e.g. in Ramallah 05:38:48 constrast this with British tactics, which involve sending lightly-armed teams of men into buildings and clearing them of enemy room-by-room 05:39:06 I think most NATO armies use tactics similar to the British 05:41:58 oh 05:42:21 i see 05:42:27 well, its much more effective :) 05:42:39 at least will well trained officers 05:42:58 Nuke them all. 05:43:01 hehe 05:43:04 Easiest way out. 05:43:16 is it true that israeli have been the aggressors against palestine? 05:43:45 The palestinians aren't exactly angels themselves either. 05:44:06 the Palestinians use suicide bombers, the Israelis use M1A1 tanks 05:44:10 make of that what you will. 05:44:42 is it analogous to the British Army in N. Ireland? maybe 05:45:06 hmm 05:45:12 M1A1 what are those? 05:45:37 seems a little silly to fight if all you have is suicide bombers 05:45:47 at least, not unless there is alot to lose 05:45:50 by occupation 05:47:08 --- quit: pavlovskii (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:47:28 ah i guess your gone :) 05:56:18 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 06:11:23 --- join: eks (~instinc@h24-70-178-38.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 06:11:48 --- join: darkito (darkito@62.36.137.189) joined #osdev 06:11:50 hi 06:18:44 Hi darkito :) 06:29:42 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:30:55 Hoi allemaal! 06:31:09 I have an IQ of 150 :D 06:32:29 Bah 06:32:34 Ich glaube dich nicht! 06:33:10 Where did you get that number from? iqtest.com or something? ;PP 06:33:12 Hoi btw 06:34:41 some dutch internet IQ test :) 06:34:41 --- quit: darkito (No route to host) 06:34:54 it says I'm a genius 06:39:48 --- join: Ghiottone (~eergqwg@ppp-105-17.27-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 06:54:17 hmm 06:54:20 do you get it emailed to you Rico? 07:02:14 oh 07:02:15 this sucks 07:02:18 im "Highly gifted and appearing to be a Genius to most others" 07:02:21 why me!!! 07:02:39 137 :( 07:03:00 --- join: dax (you@u212-239-163-218.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 07:07:18 * dax cries 07:08:30 IT AIN'T FAIR 07:08:30 * dax cries 07:08:34 lol 07:08:34 An IQ of 130 is higher than 98% of all persons taking this test. 07:09:32 ... 07:09:50 i told ya 07:09:53 people are stupid. 07:12:23 apparently, less than 1/2 of 1% of the test takers. 07:12:26 is 150 07:12:34 hehe, well come on, we are people who do osdev :) 07:13:01 most clued up people on this network are at least over 125 07:13:13 i think to be able to program more than 3 languages require that :) 07:13:30 many have exceeding high iq's i beleive 07:13:52 did you know if you had an iq over the 2% percentile, you could be a mensan! 07:14:18 check it out at http://www.mensa.org.uk :) 07:14:39 or http://www.mensa.org/ for mensa international 07:15:53 ... 07:16:03 like i care about iq's? 07:16:06 "The highest for persons under 16 years of age is 230. The highest adult score possible is 170. 07:16:07 " 07:16:17 * dax kicks ibm 07:16:25 hehe, yah, good point :) 07:16:52 MY BLOODY HD DECIDED TO GO FUBAR JUST BEFORE I COPIED THE CONTENTS TO MY NEW DISKS 07:16:55 * dax cries 07:20:21 and what's the entire point of mensa? 07:21:27 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@winton.ee.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 07:21:51 mensa is a discussion groups for people with no life :) 07:22:13 hi all 07:22:20 lol Rico 07:22:24 thats not a nice thing to say 07:22:39 I know, I'm evil 07:22:47 opn is a discussion groups for people with no life :) 07:22:50 you shouldn't take me serious >:) 07:23:07 mensans are actually some of the most intellectual people in the world 07:23:08 ... 07:23:09 * Rico had left #osdev 07:23:16 mind you, im sure, not all high iq guys join mensa 07:23:16 (with a typo) 07:23:31 also, i have no intention of joining mensa right now anyway 07:23:38 but i know a friend whos 16 that has the home test 07:23:45 ..right now.. ? 07:23:59 this is the first time I hear about mensa 07:24:31 05:45:12 M1A1 what are those? 07:24:36 it's a kind of American tank 07:24:38 yes 07:24:41 ah, thought so 07:25:19 why do they stick a minimum age to their iq test? 07:25:28 who dax? 07:25:31 I just put my tongue on my phone line, got shocked... 07:25:32 mensa or iqtest.com? 07:25:36 lol 07:25:39 that doesn't feel good 07:25:40 mensa 07:25:42 are you sure you got an iq of 150 ? 07:25:46 the Israelis make some of their own as well (Merkava?), and they've used British ones from time to time -- apparently they're using converted Chieftains as armoured personnel carriers in the occupied zones, which they said they wouldn't 07:26:05 I never tought it would have that much volts 07:26:08 oh 07:26:12 hmm, i dont think they do dax 07:26:41 they do. 07:26:43 i have heard someone killed themselves by impaling themselves with a conductive metal, and then connecting a 9 volt baterry to it 07:26:46 atleast in belgium. 07:26:52 hmm, which site? 07:27:08 corsairk8: I heard someone killed themselves by impaling themselves with metal 07:27:19 in fact, lots of people do that, to themselves and to other people 07:27:20 ah, thats a crap way to die 07:27:36 i dont mean a large metal though 07:27:45 i mean, like a small thing you would find on a voltmeter 07:27:50 smaller infact 07:27:56 hmm, depends where you impale it :) 07:28:07 it stops the heart apparently if well placed :) 07:28:19 I once put a 9 Volt battery on my tongue, that only tickles.. 07:28:23 its a defribulating effect 07:28:26 hehe Rico 07:28:34 your tongue is highly insulating 07:28:35 this phone line is way worse! 07:28:49 your blood is relatively conductive 07:29:13 as well as some chemical messengers 07:29:18 hmm, although not nearly as conductive as metal 07:29:27 quite right 07:29:30 what is your iq pavlovskii? 07:29:45 water-soluble liquids (e.g. blood) conduct with ions, which flow as fast as anything else dissoved in there 07:29:49 corsairk8: dunno, never tested it 07:29:55 yes 07:30:08 I'm probably in the top [something] percent 07:30:14 but the blood plasma often contains trace amounts of salts, iron, potasium and other such materials 07:30:23 Pure H2O isn't conductive at all, is it? 07:30:24 lol pavlovskii 07:30:27 whats your score/percentile ? 07:30:32 Rico: no, it's the ions that do it 07:30:36 corsairk8: dunno 07:30:36 i just did iqtest.com and got 137 :( 07:30:41 quite a disappointment 07:30:54 but it was an american test (with a silly currency question i had no idea bout) 07:30:59 if it's any indication, I'm good enough to do well in one of the top universities in the country 07:31:08 wow 07:31:09 [any Americans here? good] 07:31:13 what university is that? 07:31:25 corsairk8: I'd expect you to get at least 600 on an American test ;) 07:31:31 lol pavlovskii 07:31:37 the highest score an adult has got is 170 07:31:41 Imperial College: 2nd or 3rd, depending on which league table you ask 07:31:43 the highset score an under 16 has got is 230 07:31:52 oh, yah, ... 07:32:18 that sounds like crap! 07:32:31 OK, I'm going to take iqtest.com test, so don't disturb me :) 07:32:36 lol 07:32:40 no cheating 07:32:52 accordign to their faq, the quicker you do it the more accurate it is 07:34:20 hmm, on the practice test I misread the word "seven" as "fourteen" 07:41:27 lol 07:42:01 apparently, im "Highly gifted and appearing to be a Genius to most others" 07:42:10 its so not fair! 07:42:17 i did one of those mensa pretests once 07:42:21 me too 07:42:24 i did mensa workout 07:42:25 i got 50% 07:42:32 100% :) 07:42:32 much harder than the iq test there imo 07:42:49 those word games are killer 07:43:06 it was one of those 20 min pretests... 07:43:11 finished it in 12 mins :/ 07:43:39 have any of you guys heard of an ejihad? 07:43:49 e-jihad ? 07:43:53 yup 07:43:56 apparently one of the funniest things 07:44:18 started with some israeli hackers rerouting the dns of http://www.hamas.org/ to http://www.hotmotel.com/ 07:44:26 lol 07:44:33 a pornography pay site 07:44:43 meh 07:44:56 hamas is of course, a muslim group 07:45:03 no kiddin... 07:45:10 *rolleyes* 07:45:19 i'm not american... 07:45:22 :P 07:45:22 ;) 07:45:31 al quida is a funny name 07:45:53 sounds like "ill keed ya!" 07:46:05 btw 07:46:10 yes? 07:46:15 i got 146 on the iqtest thingy 07:46:20 wow!!! 07:46:22 146! 07:46:25 no fair 07:46:30 everyone is smarter than me these days 07:46:45 9 more infact! 07:46:47 hmm 07:46:52 your still in the same category 07:46:53 Highly gifted and appearing to be a Genius to most others 07:46:57 i thnk 07:46:59 or maybe not 07:47:05 english isn't my native language btw 07:47:08 hehe 07:47:11 hehe 07:47:17 anyhow 07:47:23 another anouncement! 07:47:26 daxos is dead. 07:47:29 dax, hows daxos coming? 07:47:33 ah, you read my mind 07:47:41 omikron is alive and kicking 07:47:44 corsairk8: why does iqtest.com want my credit card info? 07:47:49 how do you get your score? 07:47:49 read http://omikron.sf.net/uef.html for my latest publication 07:47:52 (incomplete) 07:48:14 http://sf.net/project/omikron for the latest stable sources in cvs 07:48:19 (albiet slightly outdated) 07:48:20 due to the loss of one of my hds and the loss of like 5 months of coding, i think i'm puting an end to daxos. 07:48:32 hehe 07:48:34 always backup 07:48:36 --- nick: eks -> eks[away] 07:48:39 well 07:48:41 i try to keep a backup on zeus, and a backup on tassadar 07:48:54 i backed everything up on my older maxtor drive 07:48:55 but 07:49:09 if not, i go and back up on my other box downstairs, enterprise (or maybe its called voyager) 07:49:09 it decided to put a bad sector over my daxos backup 07:49:23 oh dear 07:49:25 thats unfortionate 07:49:29 wait 07:49:33 it gets even worse 07:49:39 i got my new hds yesterday 07:49:40 * corsairk8 is about to cry 07:49:50 corsairk8!!!!!!!! how do I get my stupid IQ!!!!??? 07:49:54 pavlovskii 07:49:56 everything worked... 07:50:02 you should have used a valid e-mail adress 07:50:06 pavlovskii: haha, that site was a fake... it was designed to waste your time 07:50:06 it is mailed to your e-mail 07:50:11 pavlovskii: just kidding... 07:50:12 i was just getting ready to copy all my data to the newer disks 07:50:16 and *poof* 07:50:19 pavlovskii: did you specify your email address? 07:50:21 GOD BLESS IBM. 07:50:23 Rico: good point :) 07:50:30 darn dax 07:50:31 * pavlovskii isn't expecting a very good score then 07:50:44 pavlovskii is one of those that don't trust those sites and don't use a valid email address 07:50:56 yeh, I used my hotmail address :_ 07:50:57 ) 07:51:04 it will be delivered there 07:51:11 lol Rico 07:51:12 I got a score of 159 over there, and I'm not natively english 07:51:29 your one away from being a super genious 07:51:40 i'm trying to recover some data from my hd now... but i'm not being optimistic... 07:52:07 I don't know what nickels, dimes, quarters, ounces or pounds are 07:52:12 dont bother dax 07:52:31 while I was taking the test, my fucking little brother interfered with me, asshole! 07:52:35 why not participate in a public project? 07:52:41 i mean, like, a group one thats going somewhere 07:52:54 (im not recommending omikron as im currently doing development on my own :) 07:53:20 read http://omikron.sf.net/uef.html for my latest publication :) although its incomplete 07:53:22 pavlovskii: same here 07:53:49 how many ounces is a pound? 07:53:55 its what i call my uef binary format, a coff-like system which is easy to convert from pe and elf, as well as extremely nice for kernel modules 07:53:56 --- join: lynx (~lynx@pD9E6379C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 07:54:00 Rico: maybe 16 07:54:12 I think nickels might be 10 US cents, and dimes 5 07:54:17 quarters are 25 obviously 07:54:36 I have a score of 161 now :) 07:54:40 hmm, I wonder why Hotmail hasn't got my IQ test yet 07:54:44 I changed the time from 10 minutes to 7 07:54:44 well doen rico 07:54:49 =) 07:55:02 ah well 07:55:08 * corsairk8 gotta start asymilating code into omikron 07:55:13 huhu 07:55:45 rrrrrr 07:55:50 where's my test score?! 07:56:10 anyone know a good 3D card I could buy? 07:56:20 pav: you know you shouldn't put a phone line on your tongue :) 07:56:34 woohoo! it's here! :) 07:56:34 pavlovskii: how much would you like to spend 07:56:48 i want sex 07:56:50 hmm, ideally around the £100 mark 07:56:51 anyone? 07:56:55 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 07:56:56 dunno what that is in €'s 07:56:57 * Rico unzips his pants in from of lynx 07:57:13 heh 07:57:17 then I can't help you, pavlovskii 07:57:19 woohoo! 162! 07:57:24 sadly i am not gay :( 07:57:24 darn! 07:57:26 pavlovskii: nice score 07:57:29 everyone is smarter than me 07:57:34 of course, the test is completely flawed 07:57:35 * corsairk8 hates 137 07:57:39 it sure is 07:57:40 heh 07:57:41 why pavlovskii? 07:57:43 i got 91 =) 07:57:44 how long did it took you? 07:57:48 lol lynx 07:57:50 your joking? 07:57:54 well 07:57:55 corsairk8: it's on the Internet 07:57:58 depends on the test 07:58:01 AND pavlovskii? 07:58:03 91-141 07:58:06 corsairk8: you're almost 1337 07:58:09 so 07:58:17 i dont think the tests are any good 07:58:23 hahaha!!! 07:58:24 they aren't 07:58:31 lmao 07:58:34 good one 07:58:48 hrm 07:58:52 and an IQ test uses graphical questions too, this one is just sucky 07:58:54 there is a newcomer dj festival 07:58:56 hrm 07:59:00 maybe i should sign? 07:59:14 and they don't give you a t/f answer option, but an a/b/c/d answer option 07:59:51 hrm 08:00:13 btw 08:00:20 most of the answers on this test were "true" anyway 08:00:24 where can i find a unstandable document about PE or ELF ? 08:00:34 one that describes each of the flags properly 08:00:39 and how it works 08:01:25 corsairk8: I found a good one; there's a text file in the Mobius source 08:01:30 ah 08:02:08 lallalllaaaaalalalalaaaalala 08:03:04 ne nanana 08:05:00 great 08:05:05 explorer is falling apart AGAIN 08:05:12 har har har 08:05:46 stupid piece of shit os 08:06:01 --- quit: corsairk8 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:06:27 --- join: corsairk8 (~localhost@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 08:07:08 great 08:07:10 thats a first 08:07:12 explorere frucked up and mirc died 08:09:15 cool 08:09:22 i think i bloody lost all 90gb 08:09:28 argh 08:09:33 THANK YOU IBM. 08:09:38 brb 08:09:38 as long as it is just pr0n it is oki 08:09:42 ibm suxass 08:09:45 IT BLOODY WASN'T PORN. 08:09:48 NOT A SINGLE BIT 08:09:58 well a single bit isnt enough 08:10:13 i did loose all my code 08:10:16 my gfx lib 08:10:18 my gui 08:10:19 my os 08:10:20 argh 08:10:22 my demos 08:10:24 :( 08:10:25 everything. 08:10:30 backup is wasted too 08:10:35 what happened 08:10:40 dunno 08:10:41 the hd`s dont start ? 08:10:42 don't want to know 08:10:44 HDs 08:10:53 no it's uhm kinda dead 08:11:00 how dead ? 08:11:22 as in chalk-on-blackboard-sound dead 08:11:28 as in bad-sector dead 08:11:39 as in corrupted all across the disk 08:12:04 when you power on what happens ? 08:12:22 buzzy sound and then a bang , repeating all the time? 08:12:27 hmm 08:12:28 nah 08:12:41 screetching sound on read/write operations 08:12:53 argh 08:13:14 kind of a metal on metal sound 08:13:43 brb going to run ibm dft on it 08:13:49 IRIX : "$(0x6dd) ALERT: Process [netscape] generated trap, but has signal 11 held or ignored" 08:13:54 argh , i hate it 08:13:56 --- quit: dax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:28:45 why don't people listen: get SCSI :) 08:29:35 mmmm.... expensive..... 08:30:21 hell, if you don't wanna loose expensive information, you use expensive sollutions 08:31:29 --- part: Ghiottone left #osdev 08:43:29 heh 08:43:53 informaticians are the only ones who can count to 1023 with 10 fingers 08:46:40 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:50:48 --- join: dax|hatesibm (you@u212-239-163-218.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 08:50:48 now the dft app can't even identify the drives 08:50:48 fuck fuck fuck. 08:56:26 * dax|hatesibm cries 08:56:26 hrm 08:56:26 dax|hatesibm : supsup? 08:56:26 anyone having suggestions how i could recover something from these disks? 08:56:26 cause i just lost a couple of years of doc & code 08:56:26 and a few years of mp3, warez & movie collecting 08:59:02 ... 08:59:05 no suggestions? 08:59:07 ... 08:59:09 * dax|hatesibm cries 09:01:01 here's a better IQ test (takes longer though): 09:01:01 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1641/iqown.html 09:01:05 I got 134 this time 09:01:16 The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information. 09:01:53 and... who the hell cares about iq? 09:02:02 who the hell cares about your hard disk? 09:02:07 --- join: darkito (darkito@62-37-122-132.dialup.uni2.es) joined #osdev 09:02:10 i do 09:02:13 pavlovskii : !! 09:02:15 hi 09:02:22 who cares about my penis? 09:02:29 dax, we all care about your hard disk 09:02:29 lynx, your bf? 09:02:41 dax|hatesibm : i have none :( 09:02:45 :~( 09:02:48 beh 09:02:51 get one then 09:03:04 anyhow 09:03:07 dax|hatesibm : do you want to have cybersex with me in the evening? 09:03:11 i could use some advice on the hd 09:03:21 well 09:03:23 i dunno 09:03:29 lynx, no, a) i already have a gf b) i don't like cybersex and c) i'm not in the mood 09:03:52 if it`s a logic error like most ibm HDs have when they fail , you `d just need to change the circuit boards 09:04:01 dax|hatesibm : hrmpf 09:04:05 hmm 09:04:12 hmm, I think I had an IC fall off an IBM controller once 09:04:12 it's pretty weird 09:04:19 soldered it back on and it worked fine 09:04:39 their testing app can't even correctly get the serial number of the disc... 09:04:51 hmm, sounds like a controller error 09:04:59 yep 09:05:01 as i said... 09:05:03 it's a ICM-DAATL now 09:05:06 :/ 09:05:09 now anyone wants sex ? 09:05:16 if so, your data are probably OK -- the noise would have been the heads going to the wrong place, not scraping the platters 09:05:45 lynx: unban nothing and ask for some of his porn :) 09:05:55 he is banned??? 09:05:58 why? 09:05:59 however, there is a reason *why* corsairk8 banned him 09:06:03 pavlovskii, yea... but i can't do much with the data if i can't read it... 09:06:06 read yesterday's logs... 09:06:11 hrm 09:06:13 wheweerewwer ? 09:06:15 where 09:06:17 wtf nothing got banned? 09:06:23 * dax|hatesibm slaps corsairk8 09:06:26 dax|hatesibm: if you could recover the controller, your data might still be there 09:06:36 ah, nothing seems to be un-banned now 09:06:38 oh great... 09:06:53 and how doest thou suggest recovering the controler? 09:07:03 dunno... this is an electronics job 09:07:03 get the same drive 09:07:07 not for the faint-hearted 09:07:20 faint= ? 09:07:25 hmm 09:07:50 lynx: i.e. don't do it unless you know what you're doing 09:07:57 ah 09:07:58 mkay 09:07:59 these disks are becomming hard to find 09:08:02 lynx: http://tunes.org/~coreyr/read.php?chan=osdev&date=02.04.23 09:08:07 fanx 09:08:20 that should satisfy you 09:08:25 hey 09:08:29 whats the best way to develop a filessystem? 09:08:31 --- nick: darkito -> coliflower 09:08:36 that is, if you like the 'larger' woman 09:08:49 corsairk8: pick another filesystem that does what you want, and use it 09:09:08 all file systems do what i want 09:09:14 but not all are as easy as id like 09:09:29 UnixWare BFS is pretty simple 09:09:38 any other way to recover the data? 09:09:43 just a small superblock, a list of inodes, a directory, and some data 09:09:49 ie, id at least like a mini non-hierachial file system, to store at most 1mb of data in bootable mediums 09:09:56 dax|hatesibm: not without a working controller, or someone very clever 09:09:56 (this of course for the host kernel, and other modules) 09:09:59 dax|hatesibm : open the hd and move the platters in another hd with the same density 09:10:02 uhhuhhh 09:10:02 corsairk8: BFS should do you then 09:10:09 ... 09:10:12 dax|hatesibm : you can`t sue IBM for data loss btw 09:10:23 hmm 09:10:24 corsairk8: or you could use the ramdisk format I came up with a while ago 09:10:29 *ultra* simple :) 09:10:30 dax|hatesibm : or pay some XXXXe for a fancy recovery 09:10:31 lynx, well they are already being sued for that disk. 09:10:34 how about one thats extensible? 09:10:42 like, to allow attributes to be plugged in and out as needed 09:10:45 on a per-file basis 09:10:49 fancy recovery is expensive.... a bit too expensive for me... 09:10:51 hmm... you'd need something more capable 09:10:59 so it can store ext2 posix-style files just as easily as vfat dos-style files 09:11:00 ? 09:11:08 oh 09:11:15 how are Posix files different to DOS files? 09:11:28 well, they have the permission settings for user, owner and group 09:11:32 they have the uid/gid for files 09:11:46 they allow up to 255 characters usually 09:11:53 and count the extension as part of the file 09:12:04 ext2 does all that, apparently 09:12:04 they store the last modified, first modified and last accessed date/time 09:12:06 and it's pretty simple 09:12:13 i know 09:12:20 hmm 09:12:21 according to eks' document, ext2 does attributes as well 09:12:32 yes, i know... ext2 is posix 09:12:34 I'm reading the BeFS book at the moment so I can tell you about that later 09:12:40 perhaps you misunderstand 09:12:49 ext2 supports Posix... I don't think Posix specifies a file system format per se 09:12:56 i mean, if you store dos files, it will use less data than posix files 09:13:06 only by a few doublewords 09:13:08 if you want, you can add attributes at whim 09:13:15 _PER- file 09:13:17 _ 09:13:18 ohps 09:13:23 what's the different? fewer flags... ? 09:13:30 not only that 09:13:34 but for future compatibility 09:13:38 the longer name limit doesn't matter if you store your names sensibly 09:13:48 hmm, you prolly want ext2, BeFS or NTFS 09:13:52 ah 09:14:03 i think ill base it on ext2 :) 09:14:11 ext2 = plenty of code around, simple, but I reckon it's flawed 09:14:19 throwing in a little meta-data caching and journalilng 09:14:37 perhaps having ordered inode tables for fast binary searches :) 09:14:44 BeFS = well-documented (there's a book on it), nice features (64 bits, journalling, extent-based, UTF-8); BeOS is becoming dead 09:14:46 oh yes 09:14:49 and one important features 09:14:55 is good undeletion support 09:14:56 NTFS = good, well-designed, HUGE 09:15:02 i realise ext2 has that, but most implementations dont 09:15:06 hehe 09:15:11 NTFS sounds too complex 09:15:19 hmm, don't bother with NTFS :) 09:15:19 hmm, i might look at BeFS 09:15:30 has anyone implemented unicode in their file system yet? 09:15:32 I think BeFS is a good all-rounder 09:15:49 my VFS layer uses UCS-2, as does the rest of the kernel 09:15:50 or XFS 09:15:54 actual support is up to the FSD 09:16:00 oh 09:16:01 * pavlovskii hasn't read about XFS yet 09:17:09 I think ext2 is flawed because it doesn't support Unicode, it uses indirect blocks for addressing (instead of extents) and it will expire in 2038 (time_t problem) 09:17:42 oh no! 09:17:42 if you don't care about all these then by all means use ext2 09:17:47 36 years left 09:17:48 i agree pavlovskii 09:18:00 im definately not using indirect blocks 09:18:07 infact, i think ill give it a complete redesign 09:18:09 it might use a fixed-size inode area too 09:18:14 move the superblock forward a bit 09:18:27 I think BeFS looks like a 'fixed' ext2 09:18:45 it's similar in layout but doesn't suffer from any of the problems I mention 09:18:45 have a bootblock at offset 0x1000 09:19:05 0x1000? how does the BIOS find it? surely it needs to be at zero? 09:19:08 that will contain about 0x1000 bytes containing a list of names, offsets, and sizes of all modules within the limited 1mb kernel area 09:19:35 no, the boot block is a minor super-block for containing the host module (microkernel) as well as other important modules such as ide, scsi, etc... 09:19:38 dma... 09:19:43 alternatively: program your bootloader to know about your file system and have it load the modules into memory 09:19:51 that's what GRUB and NTLDR do 09:19:56 nah, i wanna have it seperate 09:20:02 what happens if my file system screws up and currupts itself? 09:20:11 its much safer to keep it away in a super-user only accesible area 09:20:19 without allowing it to get fragmented 09:20:21 hmm, poss 09:20:31 i found an old backup of daxos 09:20:36 as it can refragment it upon writing 09:20:39 --- join: jgraham (~jgraham@12-222-161-39.client.insightBB.com) joined #osdev 09:20:40 yay dax|hatesibm! 09:20:45 be back later... 09:20:46 i have a version i think dax|hatesibm] 09:20:47 --- part: pavlovskii left #osdev 09:21:09 theres not much there though dax|hatesibm 09:21:30 uhm 09:21:43 i have one dated 20 march... 09:21:53 i didn't change much to daxos after that 09:22:09 this one is 20 march too 09:22:14 --- join: nothing (~nothing@pcp01518417pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #osdev 09:22:17 heh 09:22:33 yea it's the one i sended to you corsairk8 09:22:33 nothing : got pr0n? 09:23:23 ah 09:29:05 hmm 09:29:13 i wanna shoot some guys @ ibm 09:29:27 or beat them to death 09:29:38 why? 09:29:40 preferably the people who worked on 75GXP 09:29:42 what did they do? 09:29:45 lol 09:29:48 or some hungarians 09:29:51 that would be ok too 09:30:02 its your own damned fault fewl 09:30:03 :) 09:30:08 well 09:30:16 it's not really my fault the drive crashed 09:30:20 you must back up your data 09:30:22 and i was just going to move my data 09:30:29 i bloody did back it up 09:30:36 lol, where? 09:30:36 the backup disc failed too 09:30:40 lol 09:30:49 use multiple redundant backups 09:30:49 not entirely though 09:31:04 but it decided to place some strategic bad sectors across my backups 09:31:06 burn cds, make a ramdisk on a 24/7 online box, backup on at least 3 local boxes and remotely over the net on some site 09:31:15 tape streamers are reliable 09:31:18 yea going to do that 09:31:19 i think 09:31:20 hmm 09:31:25 i had to rewrite daxos anyhow 09:31:38 i have most of my movies on cd 09:31:45 lost my mp3s though 09:31:48 but that isn't that bad 09:31:58 ashame of my gfx lib 09:32:04 but i could recode it in a week anyhow 09:32:10 and it wasn't really working 09:32:21 but i still want to shoot somebody 09:32:31 <--- 09:33:07 lol 09:35:19 hmm 09:35:23 oh well 09:35:40 i just dedicated 2 CD-RW discs to backups. 09:38:44 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@willie.ee.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 09:38:50 i have a decent backup scheme now... hmm 09:39:06 dax|hatesibm: any closer to getting your data back? 09:39:16 pavlovskii, it's wasted. 09:39:23 the disks are wasted. 09:39:39 dft can't even identify them as ibm disks anymore 09:39:43 are they under warranty? 09:39:46 (drive fitness test) 09:39:59 yes still under warranty 09:40:11 going to rma them 09:40:13 well send them back to IBM, and tell them to fix them but without losing and data 09:40:20 uhm 09:40:20 s/and/any/ 09:40:21 they don't do that afaik 09:40:35 what's the point in the warranty then? 09:40:45 you get replacements. 09:40:51 that's about it 09:40:58 and you have to wait like 6 months for them. 09:41:07 that's daft -- what if you lose your data because of an IBM fault? 09:41:15 they try to sell you a tape drive for next time? 09:41:28 nah 09:41:50 you join the class action thingy against them. 09:41:54 heh 09:42:08 woohoo! /me finds a VHDL reference card! :) 09:42:13 they already got sued for the reliablity of the 75GXP, 60GXP and 120GXP 09:42:45 the 120GXP isn't recommended for more than 8 hours of usage/day 09:43:11 oh well 09:43:20 i'll fetch a RMA code later today 09:43:21 lol 09:43:43 they can be happy if my hds are 8 hours a day powered off 09:44:26 --- quit: coliflower (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:49:44 btw, i have an updated version of my new executable format if anyone wants to check it out ... at http://omikron.sf.net/uef.html :) 09:53:59 corsairk8: I still say the architecture flags (CPUID, SSE, SSE2, etc.) are useless 09:54:17 well-written code will work with or without a particular feature 09:54:37 it should be up to the application to test for extended instruction set support 09:56:31 completely useless file format 09:56:46 arch. flags are completely superfluous 09:57:00 so is the disctinction made between the AMD processors and the intel processors 09:57:25 that kind of flag is reserved for marking the difference between completely different platforms, i.e. sparc, i386, ppc, alpah 09:57:29 s/alpah/alpha 09:57:49 right, because Alpha code definitely won't run on an x86, so it can't degrade gracefully 09:59:17 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 10:08:53 --- quit: jace48 ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 10:09:02 --- part: pavlovskii left #osdev 10:09:09 --- join: flonze (Lee@AC89E448.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 10:09:41 Hello 10:13:41 meow 10:14:09 lynx :D 10:14:28 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 10:15:01 hrm 10:20:41 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 10:22:49 Hello there. 10:26:27 lynx: huhu? 10:28:04 shutup bitch 10:28:09 i am learning schoolstuff 10:28:14 preparing my oral essay 10:28:18 stuff 10:36:55 lynx: don't be so rude! 10:37:15 i am nt 10:37:45 yes, you fuckin' are! 10:38:17 dont be so rude! 10:42:15 i am nt 10:42:49 yes, you fuckin' are! 10:43:53 dont be so rude! 10:44:21 i am nt 10:44:25 yes, you fuckin' are! 10:44:29 dont be so rude! 10:44:35 ... 10:44:36 i am nt 10:44:39 [end] 10:44:46 ... 10:45:06 //EOF 10:47:08 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@libnt58.lib.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 10:49:02 Hey pav! 10:49:15 hey! 10:49:25 increased your IQ yet? 10:49:28 Rico : do you want Cs with me? 10:49:36 Cs? 10:49:43 CS 10:49:47 no thanks\ 10:49:52 :( 10:50:01 lynx: huhu ;( 10:50:17 that game fucks up my comp when I close it 10:50:24 ARGh 10:50:30 Rico : i meant cybersex 10:50:33 and I suck at playing it 10:50:49 oh 10:50:52 then yeah! 10:50:55 I'd love to! 10:50:55 Rico : sad that your "puter" fucks up when you do cybersex ;) 10:51:05 I have a second comp 10:51:15 you have two?!?! 10:51:43 Rico : i dont think i would enjoy you as bad CS-player 10:54:15 what is CS? 10:55:30 Computer Science 10:55:47 uh 10:55:52 in the context of CS-player? 10:55:54 or not 10:56:57 "cybersex", one assumes 10:58:42 ive finished a few more bits of documentation at http://omikron.sf.net/documetation 10:59:02 i meanhttp://omikron.sf.net/documentation 10:59:56 I like the "Yoda" style in the FS document :) 11:00:02 see sentence 4 11:00:29 hehe 11:00:32 "Yoda" style? 11:01:15 "Based on ideas from Ext2, BeFS and other inspirational sources, this was designed." 11:01:21 hehe 11:01:25 lol 11:01:30 surely: "This was designed based on ideas from Ext2, BeFS and other inspirational sources." 11:01:36 i love writing like that 11:01:43 ohps i mean 11:01:46 writing like that, i love 11:01:58 design a file system you must 11:02:02 agree, i do 11:02:10 have journalling it will? 11:02:12 i see you took the time to run those docs through a spell-checker 11:02:25 correct, my friend 11:02:29 yup nothing 11:02:30 http://omikron.sourceforge.net/data/images/omk7.jpg 11:02:31 excellent work, mr. abrahams 11:02:36 i used my great ms frontpage 2k on win 98 11:02:39 oh damn my gui looked 10x times better... 11:02:44 thank you nothing 11:03:13 dax: what time did your hard disk crash? 11:03:22 we need a minute's silence for dax's GUI tomorrow 11:03:26 :'( 11:03:26 hmm 11:03:40 dunno when really 11:03:52 yesterday evening it started to act funny 11:04:03 i guess it died around 10am today 11:04:08 amen. 11:04:34 this only marks one thing... 11:04:38 IBM 75GXP's suck 11:04:45 corsairk8: http://omikron.sourceforge.net/documentation/unique-executable.html 11:04:57 yup 11:04:58 are you reserving sections for different types? 11:05:04 reserving? 11:05:18 basically, each section has its own type 11:05:33 some of which are required to have at least 1, some are optional, some are unique and can have only 1 11:05:33 --- quit: ody (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:06:04 hmm 11:06:07 sounds inflexible 11:06:12 why? 11:06:32 PE and ELF are basically databases of binary data, with some specific fields in the header (e.g. entry point) 11:06:42 i know]= 11:06:52 these documents were scrapped out quite quickly 11:07:00 still got alot of improvements to do 11:07:09 the flags for each section are pretty flexible so you can implement read/execute/load .text, read/write/load .data, read/write/zero .bss 11:07:09 i'm glad to see you put such obvious effort in your documentation, ck8 11:07:18 oh 11:07:21 lol 11:07:26 going to start rebuilding my mp3s collection 11:07:28 nah, but i like getting them finished quickly 11:07:36 so i get all my ideas out 11:07:39 and then going over and refining 11:07:43 imo, it works better 11:07:44 dax: if I had a fast connection at home you could have mine 11:07:54 but I don't, so the 7+ GB would take some time to download 11:08:03 well i had 13gb :/ 11:08:28 oh well that's easy to recreate 11:08:44 one thing i like is that its practically like windows, except omikron makes some name changes 11:08:50 ie, "Internet Cruiser" 11:08:53 "Configuration Center" 11:09:03 Center? bleh! 11:09:06 Fuzzpot Bin 11:09:07 "Centre" 11:09:11 lo sorry :) 11:09:22 hehe 11:09:23 iirc "cruise" is gay slang 11:09:26 why? 11:09:32 are Cruise Missiles bad? 11:09:44 I think it refers to the process of picking up a gay partner 11:09:45 why is it gay slang? 11:09:49 lol 11:09:55 fine, ill change it 11:10:01 File Voyager? 11:10:03 can't remember where I read/heard that 11:10:12 "File Voyager" :) nice name 11:10:16 lol, really? 11:10:17 reminds me of Star Trek 11:10:23 anyone else like that? 11:10:24 what about "Files" ? 11:10:31 this is for a program though 11:10:32 ahahahahah 11:10:36 Internet Cruiser? 11:10:36 hahahahhahaha 11:10:37 "Files" is a confusing name 11:10:41 I think giving names to OS features is gimmicky 11:10:44 Internet Voyager! 11:10:49 lol 11:11:00 its not features, its programs 11:11:12 same thing 11:11:13 omikron gets the award for most flamingly homosexual OS 11:11:19 lol 11:12:07 corsairk8: just have an icon saying "Documents", or "Home Directory" 11:12:32 File/Internet/Network Voyager 11:12:45 is sorta like what ill have for browsing everything :) 11:12:57 browsing lans and file systems like ftp will be done with network voyager, simular to windows explorer 11:13:04 internet explorer is simular to mozilla 11:13:08 file voyager is like network voyager 11:13:12 all these are consistant thoug :) 11:13:19 and are integrated with the operating system 11:13:24 FTP in Windows 2000/IE5 is broken 11:13:31 ah 11:13:47 nice concept, just the implemenation is flawed 11:14:11 I don't think the Windows Shell was designed for working over a LAN/WAN 11:14:16 yes, perhaps... 11:14:18 thanks :) 11:14:35 anyway, what I'm saying is: don't copy your FTP code from IE5 :) 11:14:39 ive still got to get lots more ideas down, but hopefully i can get most of this desktop stuff done and prototyped in the libsdl/omkgui system 11:14:51 a bad ftp server can fuck up windows if you use explorer for accessing it 11:14:58 one thing i need is a c/c++ ide and a rad gui developer (that can draw forms/automatically generate code) 11:15:06 lol Rico 11:15:20 a bad html page can fuckup windows for accessing it 11:15:29 heck, a bad text document could probably screw up windows 11:15:33 that, actually, is not true 11:15:44 ive seen it happen on all versions of ie 11:15:46 a bad command can fuck up linux 11:15:53 corsairk8: not here 11:15:55 type c:\aux\aux in dos 11:16:08 corsairk8: that bug is removed ages ago 11:16:19 the fact such a stupid bug made it in is laughable 11:16:47 and people trust companies who would allow a simple c:\aux\aux in a dos prompt to crash, with writing a web server? 11:16:51 or mission critical sofwtare? 11:17:03 bah, blame that one on IBM 11:17:05 * corsairk8 is busy eating dinner 11:19:05 why not just blame it on cp/m 11:21:59 --- nick: eks[away] -> eks 11:22:43 eks... 11:22:47 ...wears specs 11:23:10 :) 11:23:17 I can't think of any more words that rhyme with "eks" 11:23:22 except "necks" and "flex" 11:23:26 eks is effeminate ;( 11:23:27 and "pecs" 11:23:36 pavlovskii: try Hex 11:23:49 eheh 11:24:13 eks... 11:24:14 egrecks 11:24:18 necks 11:24:19 ...uses hex 11:24:22 flex 11:24:23 hex 11:24:25 sex 11:24:32 ...and the French letter "egrecks" 11:24:36 secs 11:24:42 yup pavlovskii 11:24:45 you know french too ? 11:24:47 Y 11:24:49 egrecks 11:24:53 hmm, had it taught in school 11:24:54 * eks wonders what all this fuzz about his nick is about.. 11:24:55 I was quite good too 11:24:57 ah, me too 11:25:05 hehe, i suck at french 11:25:07 im gonna fail 11:25:10 eks: make rhymes from *mine*, if you can! 11:25:12 hahaha 11:25:20 we have a new teacher each 2 weeks, cause they keep quitting 11:25:32 * pavlovskii got an A* at GCSE 11:25:33 (the only class i happen to not be in the top set and im failing it badly) 11:25:41 i hope to get a* maths 11:25:53 but i fear due to my coursework im limited at an a 11:25:59 ive only done 2 pieces 11:26:25 corsairk8: you GCSE or A-level? 11:26:30 GCSE 11:26:37 most people have 3 here 11:26:41 although sir says thats not bad 11:26:45 hmm... maths coursework always seemed so pointless 11:26:50 with me too 11:26:59 is it really that much of an impact on your final gcse grade? 11:27:18 coursework? I can't remember the weightings 11:27:22 ah 11:27:39 --- quit: jgraham ("BitchX: a new fragrance for men, by Calvin Klein") 11:27:52 they aer all boring here though 11:28:05 T number, stastics and Phi function is what i was upposed to do 11:28:09 i never handed in Phi function 11:28:13 sir never even explained it properly 11:28:28 infact, im starting to think my maths teacher is an idiot 11:28:28 what are "T number and Phi function"? 11:28:37 hes one of those "funny" make jokes all the time and avoid actually teaching all the time guys ;) 11:29:28 T number, on a given grid of size WxH, with each number spanning it consecutively incrementing by 1, by picking 5 values in a T formation, you must find a link between the base of the T and the total of all 5 values 11:29:34 heh... I always said one of our chemistry teachers put the "mystery" into "chemistry" :) 11:29:36 so, for example, if you took it at the top left corner 11:30:13 it would be 1+2+3+11+20 for a 9x9 grid 11:30:22 and 20 is the base of the grid 11:30:23 its really boring stuff 11:30:31 Phi function, i cant even start to explain 11:30:38 statistics? 11:30:42 something about some factor of prime numbers with some complex stuff 11:31:06 my teacher basically handed it out to us after reading it to us and expected up to know 11:31:09 i gave up 11:31:16 hmm, we did a statistics one 11:31:23 "The Average Yr 11 Pupil" 11:31:29 the T total is more algebra 11:31:33 or forming equations 11:33:02 --- join: ImagineOS (~ESK_Softw@ool-18bf1aa2.dyn.optonline.net) joined #osdev 11:33:27 actually, i think i wrote a c program to basically reproduce the behaviour of the phi function 11:33:36 hi 11:33:37 but i didnt have enough test data to confirm it worked 11:33:54 and quite honestly, i deviated from what it said to get it working, so i doubt its actually that accurate 11:34:16 i didnt know the first thing on how to explain it though, being able to compute it was guess work in itself :) 11:34:42 Does anyone here know a page with an english charachter frequency table? 11:34:48 corsairk8: you must have exams in a few weeks time, no? 11:34:59 i just had a module exam yesterday :) 11:35:00 for maths 11:35:04 talk about easy! 11:35:06 lol 11:35:09 i finished in like 15 minutes 11:35:12 i am crazy 11:35:16 and triple-checked everything 11:35:27 the calculator paper however wasnt so easy 11:35:31 ImagineOS: I'm a loony! 11:35:33 I want my page. 11:35:33 albiet, it was still pretty easy for most 11:35:43 I'm a teapot 11:35:55 although i think the easyness of it all put me off, and my brain went into a state where im pretending to "listen" to the teachers in class 11:36:00 i wanna be a teapot 11:36:03 --- nick: ImagineOS -> teaPot 11:36:07 :) 11:36:12 xD 11:36:13 hehe, good for you :) 11:36:20 yay 11:36:23 i am a teapot 11:36:25 yay 11:36:34 teaPot: are you short and/or stout? 11:36:55 both 11:37:16 hmm, maybe we should join #teapots 11:37:43 I, however, am going 11:37:46 Join it! 11:37:47 later all 11:37:50 Bye 11:37:57 --- part: jace48 left #osdev 11:38:04 all: join #teapots 11:38:56 --- part: pavlovskii left #osdev 11:44:01 --- quit: corsairk8 ("#kernelnewbies linux kernel newbies are lam0rz") 11:46:16 --- join: corsairk8 (~localhost@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 11:47:44 hi teaPot 11:47:57 Hellohello. 11:48:03 hi rob_ert 11:51:18 so corsairk8, there will be up to 1mb on the filesystem for kernel modules? 11:51:23 this space will be *reserved*? 11:51:27 yes nothing 11:51:34 it will essentially be outside of the filesystem 11:51:49 what's the need for this feature? 11:51:49 the superblock will start at 1mb in a specail "cache-optimal" position 11:51:52 hi 11:52:15 to simplify system startup nothing 11:52:24 plus 11:52:27 for reliability 11:52:34 if for example, you somehow currupt your main filesystem 11:52:39 the module minifs will still be intact 11:52:46 as its more simple and thus stable 11:52:50 it doesnt support fragmentation 11:52:52 nor does it support directories 11:52:56 no permissions 11:53:00 attributes 11:53:06 its always owned by root/root 11:53:25 and linux kernel newbies are l00sers 11:58:16 but that is not a good reason 11:58:19 of course 12:04:26 ah 12:04:33 so it prevents the user from fucking up the system accidentally too? 12:04:38 is that a major goal of yours? 12:04:42 to prevent accidental damage/ 12:04:44 ? 12:12:36 yes 12:12:39 of course nothing 12:12:52 ie, a rm -rfv could not destroy the system 12:13:07 its actually percieved as a seperate partition by the system 12:15:03 so, have you had problems with accidental filesystem damage before under linux? 12:15:09 --- quit: teaPot () 12:15:46 no nothing 12:16:17 thats not the point 12:17:12 to prevent damage is part of my goal, but another reason is i want a very simple filesystem which can be loaded 100% surely from the boot sector 12:17:22 ill limit it to 32 files or something 12:17:36 each file will have a 4-byte text name, a 4-byte size and a 4-byte offset 12:18:21 like HOST, SCSI, _IDE, _DMA, 8025, _PIT, __RD, __FD 12:18:23 for example 12:18:37 why not use 8 bytes for filename, you could at least fit your dir in exactly 16*32 rather than 12*32 12:18:38 basically just enough modules to get the ide/vfs/fs started up 12:19:02 ill use another 4-bytes as a checksum eks :) 12:19:16 fancy ;) 12:19:24 so its really 16*32, meaning 512 bytes of indexing data 12:19:36 and 1048576 of actual data allocatable 12:20:16 all size/offsets are aligned to a 512-byte boundary 12:20:17 huh... 12:20:20 even on hd 12:20:35 * eks wonders how corsairk8 counts... 4 bytes can fit 4GB in his world... 12:20:38 so, in essense, thats 512+512 (boot sector + indexing) + 1mb 12:20:54 huh eks? 12:21:09 what do you mean eks? 12:22:16 "and 1048576 of ..." why using 4 bytes to store the size if you are to have a 1mb file system? or why limit it to 1mb if you can index more than 4GB? 12:22:37 hmm 12:22:46 because this is only a 1mb file system :) 12:22:51 use 3bytes for size, this will allow up to 16MB 12:23:03 leave them on 4 bytes boundary 12:23:05 then id have dword misalignment 12:23:13 but at least you will be able to use the 1 bytes for each for future flags 12:23:14 i could measure it in 512 blocks 12:23:25 which would mean 0-2048 12:23:26 but thats too complex 12:23:29 bytes are more useful 12:23:32 lolol 12:23:46 a single shift operation and it's too complex... lol 12:23:51 hehe, yup 12:24:11 i wanna keep boot loader short and sweet 12:24:17 no wonder ext2 is too complex for ya ;) 12:24:21 no, its not complex 12:24:24 shifting is easy 12:24:42 i might actually make a module for a stage2 boot loader :) 12:24:45 that can be unloaded later 12:25:10 or it can just be a plain binary file 12:25:46 its actually quite leet this system, i might begin a mockup of my fs design :) 12:26:40 first boot sector, then minifs index, then 1mb of reserved space, (all up to here are optional and only for bootable filesystems), then 4096 bytes reserved for superblock 12:26:57 and then from there, a single massive inode structure 12:27:16 which is of course cached and journalled 12:27:23 everything from there is dynamic 12:27:37 you know... except for the 1mb of reserved space, you are '' close to describing ext2 ;) 12:27:50 ah, it hink after that, ill have for each 2gigabytes of space, a bitmap table 12:27:52 or something 12:27:55 hehe i know eks :) 12:28:52 ill also make it so non-root users cant fill up more than 90% of the drive or 256mb of space, whichever is smallest 12:29:26 ext sux 12:29:27 er 12:29:28 ext2 sux 12:29:32 haha, shutup nothing 12:29:35 reiserfs > * 12:29:51 and mine may resemble ext2 eks, but i still think its a stripped down version of it :)_ 12:29:59 nothing: according to the various benchmakrs, ext3 and reiserfs are quite close to one another 12:30:09 corsairk8: ;) 12:30:09 the inode structure for example will be much thinner and smaller 12:30:21 reiser is more stable 12:30:38 reiser is sorta been around logner 12:31:02 nothing: ext2 is quite stable, the journal needs a bit of work but is being sorted out, whenver that is fixed the advantage reiserfs is currently enjoying will be nil 12:33:43 --- join: AirbusA380 (AskMe@12-238-30-113.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 12:33:50 hi AirbusA380 12:33:57 hey guys 12:34:02 long time no see 12:34:11 eks ! 12:35:09 Hello 12:35:35 * eks wonders if AirbusA380 is actually Cefarix... 12:39:38 yep 12:39:48 i am 12:39:56 do you think its possible to get klined by having a quit message "linux kernel hackers are l0sers" ? 12:40:06 no 12:40:35 but i do think it's possible to get a kline if u say obl is not a terrorist 12:40:38 air, air-dcc, AirbusA380, clog, dax|hatesibm, Del|Home, eks, flonze, gab, lynx, nothing, Rico, rob_ert, slowcoder, trans, witten, zooy0rk 12:40:44 lol 12:40:47 whois obl? 12:40:51 * AirbusA380 is cefarix 12:40:54 osama 12:41:05 hmm? 12:41:07 --- nick: dax|hatesibm -> dax 12:41:10 and umm 12:41:16 --- nick: dax -> dax|badday 12:41:22 <-- does *not* think obl is a terrorist 12:41:27 * AirbusA380 now prepares for k-line 12:41:38 hehe 12:41:48 hmm 12:41:52 why? 12:43:11 u want to take it to politics? 12:43:13 whos obl? 12:43:16 osama bin laden 12:43:19 why would he be a terrorist? 12:43:19 i dont think it will be good if u discuss it here 12:43:49 oh i mean 12:43:59 its obvios hes a terrorist, they have been hired by usa themselves 12:44:00 the opposite 12:44:23 is it ok if i discuss it here why i think he isnt? 12:44:24 but... ya see, nowadays, he just sits in his palace, getting his al queida to train up young men to die for their country 12:44:33 s/palace/cave 12:44:46 i donno if he was ever a terrorist 12:45:02 or just sorta a currupt leader 12:45:42 did you know that oblISK, his initials are the first 3 letters in oblisk :) 12:45:44 of course it is obelist 12:46:38 ah well, thats enough talking about that retard 12:46:48 stroke genecist 12:46:55 * AirbusA380 thinks highly of obl 12:46:55 stroke part time criminal 12:47:20 u know why... 12:47:31 because i heard the original message he said in the video tapes 12:47:37 not the english translation 12:48:07 oh 12:48:08 and? 12:48:39 it seems to me that *wanted* to put him under a terrorist spotlight 12:48:43 im gonna have to close irc in a short time 12:48:54 by putting words in his mouth u see :/ 12:48:55 hes an attention sseker AirbusA380 12:49:00 who would resort to anything 12:49:08 no he's not 12:49:09 hm 12:49:11 eks, are you here? 12:49:22 that's what they have u believe 12:49:29 i think actions speak louder than words imo 12:49:30 he's a perfectly normal person 12:49:35 and highly intelligent 12:49:39 and all i know right now is that he would kill civilians to make a point 12:49:49 i dont think so 12:49:51 making him as bad as the americans in their conflicts (vietnam, cuba, etc) 12:50:01 well, he didnt do it himself 12:50:01 of course 12:50:07 but he advocates it 12:50:18 and acknowledges he did it in the capacity of a leader 12:50:19 nope he doesnt 12:50:19 * dax|badday is restoring his mp3 collection 12:50:30 nothing: yip 12:50:41 already have 40 mp3s... hehe 12:50:41 nothing: trying to stay away from the current topic 12:50:46 see there in is the purposely put words... 12:51:01 eks: dont worry... ill take it to #politics if u like 12:51:05 eks, do you ahve any knowledge of disassembling encrypted ELF executablers? 12:51:06 er 12:51:08 executables 12:51:22 hmm 12:51:22 nothing: encrypted? 12:51:26 yes 12:51:41 corsair: they only focused on one part of his speech 12:51:44 i donno airbus, i dont like politics and all this stuff :) 12:51:44 AFAIK ELF do not have any standard encryption mechanism defined 12:51:56 corsair: the one that said it's good... 12:52:05 there is this 'exploit' i got made by team TESO that exploits recent OpenSSH, it is encrypted and requires some kindof password plus unknown other authentication 12:52:11 i am attempting to disasm it, heh 12:52:17 but i found that it uses some kind of encryption 12:53:03 if you execute the binary and it requests for a password itself, then it just basically included the real binary in encrypted form in its own data section 12:53:18 but unless you bruteforce attack it, it will be mostly impossible to get it 12:53:33 corsair: what he originally said, summarized, is: the attacks were good in that they opened up the americans to see that other ppl suffer much more than they do, and that they were bad because here are thousands of civilians dead again and yet another war coming on 12:53:44 and since you don't know what the final binary looks like, it will be kinda hard to just uncompress and give it control every time ;) 12:53:49 eks: want me to send you the exploit? 12:54:03 nothing: no 12:54:08 lol 12:54:09 i see 12:54:18 nothing: I don't have time to lose with such things 12:55:52 corsair: there's good in even some of the worst things ever, whoever did this obviously did not want the good to happen, but the good is there and it did happen, the ppl didnt die in vain..., sometimes it just takes a bit of looking behind the scenes to find out the good 12:56:11 eks: it's a *very* interesting program ;-) 12:56:30 nothing: tell me about it 12:56:34 nothing: I bet it is 12:57:25 i guess it could be bypassed with a kernel module 12:58:04 eks: r u working on any project(s) right now? 12:58:22 AirbusA380: Bochs, Nasm, Ext2-doc, Fprem 12:58:26 perhaps so air-dcc 12:58:42 eks: cool. what's Fprem? 12:58:44 perhaps so AirbusA380 12:58:55 AirbusA380: http://sf.net/projects/fprem/ 12:59:07 eks needs an os-project ;-) 12:59:34 nothing: shush, I'm trying to quit 12:59:35 ;) 13:00:09 eks: hey umm, could u let me join fprem? seems like something id like to 13:00:10 do 13:01:00 AirbusA380: work at it and submit your code whenever its ready, I'll see after if I add you to the team or not 13:01:21 just tell me which part you are working on so that we can actually see if we can prioritize other parts 13:01:31 eks: ok 13:01:37 wow, cookin is on that project? 13:01:52 nothing: yes :) 13:04:20 4eks: you have still contact to amd? 13:05:12 eks: why is it called "recyclable"? 13:05:44 lynx: amd is in #bochs and #fprem 13:06:05 AirbusA380: we needed a meaning for the 'R' ;) 13:06:19 and "REMulator" was not sounding right :p 13:07:03 fprem looks bad 13:08:15 what exactly does it emulate? 13:08:36 x86 PV 13:08:40 PC 13:10:15 ah, i see 13:10:25 --- nick: dax|badday -> dax 13:10:27 portable, it is? 13:13:53 corsairk8: ANSI C 13:13:54 lynx: huhu? 13:14:04 corsairk8: the GUI is built using SDL 13:15:51 --- nick: lynx -> lynx_away 13:21:25 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-871.articuno.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 13:21:40 hi all 13:23:58 eks: make a program to emulate the sparc v9 arch 13:24:51 nothing: just write a sparc v9 cpu module for fprem, after that it's a simple matter of writing a motherboard text config 13:27:06 --- quit: corsairk8 () 13:28:22 heh 13:31:16 Hey 13:31:26 Mr nasty-porn! 13:31:37 --- join: corsairk8 (~localhost@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 13:31:58 --- join: Aardappel (~Aardappel@pD9587ECD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 14:06:05 http://www.eetimes.com/at/news/OEG20020423S0091 <-- interesting technology 14:24:15 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:24:36 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:27:33 --- quit: pavlovskii (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:39:59 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-1234.aerodactyl.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 14:40:21 hi all 14:40:28 quiet in here, no? 14:41:09 Yup :) 14:41:19 very much so 14:41:58 eks: just reading your IBM link 14:42:49 fantastic! an elec eng web site 14:42:55 :) 14:45:43 --- join: daboy (~daboy@lnk2-bfrost-gw.binary.net) joined #osdev 14:45:56 Hello 14:45:59 hej 14:46:09 * rob_ert pets his daboy 14:46:10 --- nick: daboy -> indigo 14:46:41 * indigo has resumed work on tauga 14:49:09 indigo: make a console in a thread right away when the os starts, show a prompt before 3000 cycles :P 14:49:14 uhhh 14:49:30 eks: is this a challenge or something? 14:49:30 #osdev -> #ex-uuu-people? :) 14:49:55 nothing: lol 14:50:02 nothing: only 3 of them... 14:50:15 unless nicks have change 14:50:17 d 14:50:21 well, lynx is such a big personality he counts as like 5 14:50:40 lynx worked on uuu? 14:50:45 uh 14:50:50 afaik, he did most of the code for uuu 14:50:59 eks did 14:51:04 and i helped quite a lot 14:51:13 well, didn't lynx do the sound subsystem or something? 14:51:44 what's lynx's real name? 14:52:03 Der Niklas! 14:52:06 ah 14:52:14 well, he sorta worked something on sound 14:52:19 dunno if he ever got it working :P 14:52:25 :D 14:52:28 i did an ISA soundblaster driver 14:52:32 that's about all uuu had for sound 14:52:58 indigo: he made a sb driver more portable than you 14:53:08 did he finish it? 14:53:27 i never got to see it 14:53:35 and ja, mine was kinda hacked :P 14:53:45 * pavlovskii has beer 14:53:51 but it did play, on my system at least 14:54:47 indigo: yeah, he made it working 14:54:53 cool 14:54:58 indigo: quite surprinsingly enough should I add 14:55:03 heh 14:55:07 worked even on my laptop 14:55:11 wow! 14:55:37 well, i'm making the vm system for tauga now 14:55:48 i last stopped because i was getting sick of memory management 14:55:59 nothing but loads of binary trees and tables... 14:56:03 quite mundane :( 14:56:19 ehehe 14:56:25 alright, time to go home 14:56:29 --- part: eks left #osdev 14:59:51 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 14:59:53 Hi 15:01:13 hi all 15:01:15 hi rob_ert 15:01:29 hi Zenton 15:02:13 hi pavlovskii 15:13:23 --- quit: corsairk8 () 15:14:13 --- nick: indigo -> indigo_food 15:21:20 --- quit: rob_ert ("(:") 15:32:30 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 15:42:56 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 15:44:01 strange bug... 15:44:29 when I link in port.o (the IPC port FSD), the bug happens, most of the time 15:44:34 when I don't, it works fine 15:45:23 the bug in question: when two threads in different processes finish I/O requests at the same time (e.g. they've tried to read from the keyboard, and the user's just pressed a key), something in the kernel kills both processes, maybe by corrupting the stack 15:45:32 when I remove the ports FSD, everything works as it should 15:45:36 I hate this kind of bug! 15:45:56 --- join: BadSector (Baddy@samo364-isdn-a048.otenet.gr) joined #osdev 15:46:01 yo all 15:47:25 hi BadSector 16:12:42 --- nick: indigo_food -> indigo 16:13:02 hejjj 16:28:53 --- quit: lynx_away (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:31:28 g'night all 16:31:36 gn 16:32:02 --- nick: Zenton -> ZzZ_enton 16:33:43 --- join: darkito (darkito@80.103.136.1) joined #osdev 16:33:44 hi 16:33:51 %) 16:34:02 hej 16:44:14 --- join: alphakiller (~eu@200191029199-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br) joined #osdev 16:44:21 hello 16:45:37 hje 16:45:38 hej 16:46:18 äöåüßüåöäöåüß 16:52:11 --- quit: zooy0rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:52:24 --- quit: pavlovskii (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:54:35 --- quit: ZzZ_enton (Remote closed the connection) 16:56:27 --- join: zooy0rk (~zooy0rk@c-24-98-76-172.atl.client2.attbi.com) joined #osdev 16:57:06 --- quit: darkito (No route to host) 17:01:32 --- quit: Aardappel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:03:03 --- quit: alphakiller ("Commando Operating Engine - o meu sistema !!") 17:07:38 --- quit: zooy0rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:14:40 --- join: zooy0rk (~zooy0rk@c-24-98-76-172.atl.client2.attbi.com) joined #osdev 17:15:11 --- join: analyst (analyst@np9.hert.org) joined #osdev 17:15:14 hello 17:26:26 --- join: nbsp (g@ip68-14-60-7.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 17:29:54 --- join: dsqu (g@ip68-14-60-7.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 17:29:57 --- quit: nbsp (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:30:14 --- nick: dsqu -> nbsp 17:31:11 --- quit: Del|Home (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:33:33 --- quit: zooy0rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:37:31 --- join: witten_ (~witten@gw.la.creatureshop.henson.com) joined #osdev 17:39:27 --- join: zooy0rk (~zooy0rk@c-24-98-76-172.atl.client2.attbi.com) joined #osdev 17:40:33 --- join: alphakiller (~eu@200191029199-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br) joined #osdev 17:44:16 --- quit: analyst ("Goddamn, gelled her nippleswells, drilling your cock canyon was a fuck jamboree you jizz hunting dick gleamer, shooting suck ) 17:45:31 CAn anybody gimme an explanation, how to implement multi-tasking ? 17:46:24 I've never done it, but you basically have a timer interrupt that ticks regularly and signals to you that it's time to possibly switch to the next task 17:46:44 I thoughy on it 17:46:50 But my problem is : 17:47:17 I don´t have any idea how to save the registers and swich to the next task, and load it´s registers ... 17:47:20 heheheh 17:47:50 I dunno.. you familiar with the pusha assembly instruction? 17:47:57 yeah 17:48:06 maybe use that 17:48:15 to save a bunch of registers 17:48:19 pushad, right ? 17:48:26 i made a taskswitcher in DJGPP... 17:48:27 but 17:48:34 not sure 17:48:50 How will I save the stack ??? 17:48:53 hehehe 17:49:04 I need to save the stack too ... 17:49:06 alphakiller: you'll not... just save the SP/ESP register :) 17:49:24 so I´ll save : 17:49:56 eax,ebx,ecx,edx,eip,esp,edi,esi ? 17:50:36 with pushad ? 17:51:20 i don't think that it saves ESP :) 17:51:45 it saves all 8 general register ... 17:51:56 there are 8 above 17:52:57 What do you think ? 17:53:14 dunnio 17:53:22 i didn't used stack to save registers 17:53:28 i used the MOV instruction :) 17:54:16 but If I have anything in the stack, just before pushad ... 17:54:24 I´ll have problems 17:56:11 --- quit: witten_ ("bye") 17:59:59 How u used mov instruction ? 18:00:21 mov [a place in memory], register 18:00:30 mov [a place in memory+4], another_register 18:00:38 mov [a place in memory+8], anotheranother_register 18:00:40 etc 18:00:46 :0 18:01:00 hmm 18:01:13 but 18:01:49 You should have a limit of tasks, right ? 18:02:27 no, why? 18:02:49 forgot what I´ve said .. 18:02:58 a_place_in_memory could be a pointer in a record of a list 18:03:04 hmm 18:03:06 right 18:03:38 and how you save ss,cs,stack,ds,es,fs,gs ? 18:04:40 are you making realmode or protectedmode? 18:05:51 pmode 18:06:06 oh... I forgot ... 18:06:09 hehehe 18:06:15 That I was on pmode 18:06:18 hehehe 18:06:19 but 18:06:30 How it will jump to the next thread ? 18:06:44 you save the EIP too 18:06:47 How I save the position of the memory that the code was ... 18:06:53 look 18:06:59 oh yah 18:07:00 eip 18:07:02 when the function is called (interrupt) 18:07:09 the EIP is pushed on the stack 18:07:13 you just pop it out :) 18:07:17 will point to the next instruction 18:07:18 hehehe 18:07:34 and at the end of the function, you push the EIP of the next task :) 18:07:35 But i should have a place to store the ss, right / 18:08:20 SS? 18:08:25 are u trying to write a scheduler? 18:08:34 yeah 18:08:34 air: believe it or not, he is :P 18:08:35 in PMode you can't change SS and CS 18:08:48 hmm 18:08:54 but you don't need 18:08:54 But how I´ll save the stack ? 18:08:59 u dont need to pop eip and save it 18:09:06 BadSector: huh... you can change both SS and CS 18:09:19 eks: well... when i did that, i got an exception 18:09:27 BadSector: you loaded bad values in them 18:09:31 eks: but anyway, why to do so? it's always the same 18:09:33 but you still can change them 18:09:44 BadSector: maybe in your os, not in MS Windows :p 18:10:11 eks: i actually made some multitasking functions for DOS/DJGPP... not for my os 18:10:23 coo 18:10:23 l 18:10:28 BadSector: I wouldn't call those pmode oses ;) 18:10:35 they are flat realmode 18:11:43 eks: which? 18:12:22 eks: DJGPP generates 32bit protectedmode code 18:13:03 BadSector: there's only one thing that comes in my mind if you say the value of CS never changes, either you code at app level or you wrote a very simple OS 18:13:10 s/one/two/ 18:13:35 most applications under almost any operating system will always have the same CS 18:13:38 one :) 18:13:41 maybe... 18:14:08 but if you write at OS level, many OS currently have different CS for interrupt handlers, for apps and for service routines 18:14:17 eks: CS never changes in brix/torsion/etc and they are not simple OSes 18:14:20 (service routines meaning kernel functions) 18:14:27 anyway, since we're dealing with flat memory model 18:14:38 i don't want to change CS (simplicity) 18:14:42 and if you use vesa 3.0 protected mode you need a 16 bit CS 18:14:51 air: let's say they are unconventional OSes for the x86 architecture, which borrows heavily from other cpu architecture oses 18:15:20 the point _is_, you _can_ change CS and SS in pmode 18:15:30 * indigo does it all the time :P 18:15:42 200 times each seccond... 18:15:56 indigo: that can't be healthy ;) 18:16:13 * eks goes to add lazy flags to his pc emulator 18:16:15 eks 18:16:27 well, what does a typical OS switch at? 18:16:32 pushad will save eip on stack ? 18:16:41 no, it won't 18:16:47 but an interupt pushes i 18:16:48 eip 18:16:59 indigo: dunno, 200 is a good switching speed, but I'd rather have some realtime in there rather than fixed switch time 18:17:22 alphakiller: please consult your Intel Instruction Set manual before asking such question 18:17:28 eks: you will have to coach me on realtime sometime; i'd like to learn more :) 18:17:36 indigo: ;) 18:18:04 * eks *poof* 18:18:06 eks: lazy flags? 18:18:15 not updating the flags until needed 18:18:24 saves time, because computing the flags is expensize 18:18:29 expensive even 18:19:01 bochs does that, and for a while we were confused as hell when we looked at the traces 18:19:43 it sure speeds things up though 18:20:55 indigo: solved the issue with the trace by computing the final value of the flags immediately :P 18:21:05 ja, i remember 18:21:15 was confusing before though :) 18:21:59 oh...btw i'll be mailing those papers for those *$#)ing volenteer hours soon 18:22:04 they have decided to accept them 18:22:22 even though it was fun, and it required thought, and it didn't help old or retarded people 18:23:31 lol 18:24:00 hrm now... 18:24:01 anytime, whenever I receive them I sign and send back :) 18:24:08 anyone have any ideas on a good datast 18:24:11 gurcae,g*)@#!* 18:24:14 typedef void (*)(struct cpu_t *cpu) lazyflags_handler_t; 18:24:14 typedef struct { 18:24:14 lazyflags_handler_t o, s, z, a, c, p; 18:24:14 } lazyflags_t; 18:24:17 eheh :P 18:24:35 anyone have any ideas on a good data structure to use to keep track of free blocks of memory and not fragment? 18:24:39 * eks tries to implement lazy flags in 20% faster than bochs fashion 18:24:52 I´m using segmentation 18:25:16 So, I have to load ds,es,fs,gs,ss of each task, with it´s ldt , right ? 18:25:43 right, unless you want some global shared segment 18:26:02 eks: are making a pc emulator? 18:26:15 --- join: Delphinus (~peter@203.135.69.65) joined #osdev 18:26:17 i just use shared segments and use paging to achieve seperation of processes 18:26:19 eks: make also Gravis UltraSound emulation :) 18:26:40 i think it makes things more sane and surely more portable, since ia32 is about the only arch that has segments 18:26:58 eks: i want to see some old DOS-based demos that uses GUS, but all PC Emus that i know doesn't emulating GUS, only SB :( 18:27:04 hey indigo! 18:27:08 ltns 18:27:16 hey AirbusA380! who are you! 18:27:22 cef 18:27:26 ahh 18:28:02 what have you been up to? 18:28:07 hmm 18:28:17 designing an airship 18:28:19 BadSector: I'll remember it :) 18:28:24 that can circumnavigate the world 18:28:30 remote controlled from my PC 18:28:34 solar powere 18:28:36 d 18:28:41 hrm 18:28:43 already been done 18:28:54 with live downlink video/audio to my PC 18:29:05 no amateur has done it as far as i know 18:29:24 there were many attempts about a year ago 18:29:26 and i dont think they used a mobile phone for radio link 18:29:31 i don't remember which sucseded 18:29:34 but i think one did 18:29:50 ur talking about a manned hot air balloon 18:29:56 no, they probally used something more specialized since a moble phone wouldn't work at their altitudes 18:30:05 they were manned 18:30:06 no, not hot air, anything 18:30:16 yeah... anything... 18:30:17 most of them used some lighter than air gas 18:30:22 yeah 18:30:25 im using helium 18:30:38 and mine is unmanned 18:30:43 only 10 ft long at max 18:30:55 how about a black plastic bag? :P 18:31:10 plastic bags dont handle well in 100 mph speeds 18:31:14 or in rough weather 18:31:21 i used a subspace transmitter in mine :) 18:31:24 if they are unmanned it doesn't matter :) 18:31:54 ive enclosed a partially helium filled bag in a styrofoam frame that is covered in aluminum foil 18:32:03 the bag expands as u go higher 18:32:20 why the styrofoam? 18:32:24 and the foil? 18:32:35 hey 18:32:41 u have to make a conic airframe shape 18:32:52 it's only a frame 18:32:52 i just mounted the subspace transmitter and sensors to an antigrav unit and fusion reactor 18:32:58 what kind of conic, and why? 18:33:13 If i wanna jmp to the first instruction, of a task loaded at 0x120000, i have to move to eip, 0x120000 ? 18:33:17 like the airframe of any airship u might see... a dirigible shape 18:33:47 but then u have to cover the frame 18:33:49 well, i think making the bag shapped like that would be much more efficient than hauling foam and foil up with it 18:33:55 cause otherwise it's not streamlined u know 18:34:12 well, if you plan to go supersonic you want a wedge shape 18:34:14 the bag wont be streamlined 18:34:20 i dont plan supersonic lol 18:34:32 well, just in case... 18:34:32 i plan at the very max 100 mph 18:34:35 you never know 18:34:41 oh, 100 mph? 18:34:55 not bad for a 10 foot airship of helium, styrofoam, and foil 18:34:57 2 electric motors running off some solar panels dont give it enough push to 100 mph 18:35:01 a wedge would be better cuz locals would think it was a UFO 18:35:06 heh 18:35:07 yah! 18:35:14 it has a dime-size video camera 18:35:19 or a disc 18:35:20 that is movable like a turret 18:35:23 and also if you took the foil off it might get hotter and float better 18:35:25 and a microphone 18:35:31 and it would weigh less 18:35:36 and why do you want a microphone? 18:35:43 so i can listen 18:35:47 like if i go to africa 18:35:57 i'm assuming if you want to go around the world, you will want to go high so there's lotts of wind, and there's not much to listen to there 18:35:58 i can hover over the wildlife reserves 18:35:59 spraypaint the foil black and it will get really hot 18:36:03 and listen to the animals 18:36:06 and a microphone just adds weight if you arn't listening 18:36:16 minimicrophone 18:36:19 or better yet, use a black bag 18:36:22 doesnt weigh more than a gram 18:36:39 well, you will need the microphone, then the electronics to send it back 18:36:40 it uses a GPS to navigate 18:36:42 if u wrap a hotdog in foil and spray it black the hotdog will cook when left in the sun 18:36:52 the mobile phone for communications 18:36:52 you going to haul an old pentium 75 up there too? 18:37:22 and a nintendo gameboy advance for the autopilot and video/audio signal processor 18:37:24 last i checked a mobile phone didn't have a telemetry port 18:37:35 that's awfully heavy 18:37:48 you would be better off just buying a z80 from motorolla, and cheaper too 18:37:50 ive made calculations 18:38:00 you don't need a display, or buttons, or speakers... 18:38:03 z80 is too weak for video/audio 18:38:06 a flat light weight disc frame with helium bag inside, solar panels on top and mirrors on bottom would be kewl 18:38:19 i believe the game boy runs on a z80 18:38:19 im gonna disassemble the gameboy anyways 18:38:26 or just smooth foil on bottom 18:38:31 smotth shiny foil 18:38:40 air: it will have smoot shiny foil all over it 18:38:44 i think a black trash bag is your best bet 18:38:52 indigo: hah 18:38:54 protects agains static build up to the electonics 18:39:08 static isn't a problem if you are flying 18:39:09 indigo: i dont think a plastic bag could last up there for months on end 18:39:16 i bet it could 18:39:16 air: i know but u need to make the foil on the bottom highly reflective 18:39:24 just make sure your electronics have a common ground 18:39:27 air: lol 18:39:29 lol 18:39:31 you don't need to cover the whole thing in foil 18:39:37 he said that to himself... 18:39:37 and foil is very heavy 18:39:46 s/air:/airbus:/ 18:39:49 like i said 18:40:00 ive calculated it 18:40:08 i'm sure :) 18:40:15 even the cost of building down to a few dollars 18:40:27 where can you find a gameboy for a few dollars? 18:40:32 i'd really like to know 18:40:35 one sec 18:40:49 Garmin 12XL GPS www.thegpsstore.com 194.95+26.99+8.95 18:40:49 Mini Color Video Camera www.spydevicecentral.com 129.99+20.00 18:40:49 Helium ~ 250.00 18:40:49 Styrofoam ~ 10.00 18:40:49 Balloon - available, 0.00 18:40:50 Nintendo GameBoy Advance www.gamestop.com 69.99+4.99 18:40:52 64MB Cartridge & Linker http://www.easybuy2000.com/store/nintendo%20accessories/gba64set.shtml 99.00+4.50 18:40:53 and a celular phone 18:40:54 GSM phone+SIM card, Starter Kit www.buyundercost.com 219.00+? 18:40:56 Iridium Data Kit www.stratos.ca 172.00+? 18:40:58 Solar panel http://home.san.rr.com/tapsak/SolarPricingPage.html ~ 7.45x5+S&H 18:41:00 2 Super-Speed 9-18V DC Hobby Motors RadioShack.com 2x3.99+? 18:41:00 indigo: game boys are cheap, just walk up to some kid that has one, grab it and run 18:41:02 2 8x7 G/F Seri 18:41:10 es Propellers 2x1.69+3.50 18:41:22 super-speed? 18:41:24 which adds up to about $1500 18:41:30 oh, a few dollars? 18:41:43 i'm sure i could do it for about $50 18:41:51 oh really... 18:42:01 u wont even find the helium for that much 18:42:10 so u're outta luck already :) 18:42:12 it doesn't need helium 18:42:19 and for a small ship, you don't need much 18:42:26 what will urs have in it 18:42:30 u need a gps 18:42:30 hot air 18:42:35 i do? 18:42:43 oh, well that wasn't in the requirements 18:42:46 if u want it to navigate u do 18:42:58 it has to be able to stay up for atleast a week 18:42:59 well, i don't need a gps to navigate 18:43:00 and navigate 18:43:18 ud need to have fuel to keep that air hot 18:43:26 hell, germany blasted v2 rockets all over the place without gps 18:43:34 i know :) 18:43:37 nah, i have a giant fusion reactor 18:43:42 no need for fuel 18:44:21 yeah right... 18:44:30 look up in about 10 hours 18:44:34 i'll show it to you 18:44:55 the basic equation for determining how much helium u need is: 18:45:00 15 hours it should be quite high 18:45:10 Ma < M + Mh 18:45:48 meaning the mass of the displaced air should be less than the mass of the object plus the mass of the helium combined 18:46:14 umm no 18:46:19 i got it backward 18:46:26 s// 18:46:30 :) 18:46:33 that looks better 18:46:33 s/less/more/ 18:47:21 and 18:47:26 ive been working on whizzer 18:47:31 it now does multitasking... 18:47:43 well, i'll make my black trash bags, and you make your heliumstyrofoamfoil airship, and we will see who gets it to fly and who has money left :) 18:48:06 i dont have any money with me... 18:48:17 have any black trashbags :) 18:48:18 ill take from my father, i hope he gives me 18:48:28 heh 18:48:32 how can I save eip ? 18:48:42 mov [mem],eip 18:48:44 i wish my dad would give me $1500 for an airship :) 18:48:45 or push eip 18:48:55 heh, no... 18:49:04 alphakiller: interupts push it on 18:49:10 alphakiller: you can also do something like 18:49:17 call label 18:49:19 label: 18:49:21 pop eax 18:49:25 ; eax has label in it 18:49:59 u know indigo 18:50:06 u might wanna look at this site 18:50:09 so eax will be = eip ? 18:50:14 with : 18:50:16 http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ 18:50:17 call label 18:50:22 label: 18:50:25 pop eax ? 18:50:26 and try building some of those projects 18:50:48 yes, but eip will always be the same, unless your code moves 18:50:55 are you working on a scheduler or something? 18:51:01 yeah 18:51:05 scheduler 18:51:22 AirbusA380: alright, i'll check it out later 18:51:44 well, you will need to generate an interupt somehow to switch tasks 18:51:49 http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/gravity3.txt <-- gravity resonance coil 18:51:52 usually you program the PIC 18:51:52 try that 18:52:09 a very dangerous experiment that highly distorts space time 18:52:26 interrupts push cs and eip 18:52:53 causing possibly bending of metals, spontaneous materialization of matter, dematerialization, transportation, etc 18:53:20 indigo 18:53:27 well this is all theroy you know, AirbusA380 18:53:43 alphakiller 18:53:47 they've been built in real 18:53:52 but eip will point after the call, right ? 18:53:58 atleast some of them 18:54:32 most of the antigravity devices have been built and there have been scientifically confirmed antigravitation effects 18:54:39 it pushes the eip of the next instruction before the interupt 18:54:45 infact, NASA is experimenting with one device right now 18:54:51 a typical interupt handler looks like this 18:54:54 handler: 18:54:57 pushad 18:55:08 mov [savestack], esp 18:55:17 mov esp, [restorestack] 18:55:18 popad 18:55:20 iretd 18:55:42 generally you do stuff like check for timer experiation in there too 18:55:50 yeah 18:55:58 or you can use x86 hardware to do task switching 18:56:06 But I need to save esp, isn´t it ? 18:56:11 ops 18:56:11 eip 18:56:16 it's on the stack 18:56:18 or eip will be inside esp ? 18:56:38 and that code doesn't save the segment registers, except CS 18:57:36 So eip, will be inside esp ? 18:57:48 it's not in esp, it's on the stack pointed to by esp 18:58:10 so esp will point to the registers and eip ? 18:58:14 yes 18:58:19 hmm 18:58:23 when you have an interupt, it does in effect this 18:58:26 push eip 18:58:28 push cs 18:58:34 jmp to_interupt 18:58:38 and iret is 18:58:39 pop cs 18:58:41 pop eip 18:58:47 except you can't actually push/pop eip 18:58:55 and i may have the order backwards 18:59:01 oh... 18:59:06 it saves eflags too 18:59:19 But how can I save segment registers ? 18:59:33 well, either use x86 task switching, or just push them 18:59:34 push ds 18:59:35 push es 18:59:37 push gs 18:59:37 ... 18:59:53 then pop them off 19:00:40 So, to restore them I´ll have to do the opposite, right, such as : 19:00:45 pop gs 19:00:47 pop es 19:00:50 pop ds 19:00:53 yes 19:00:55 popad 19:01:45 you will have to save the others if you plan to change them too 19:02:10 and if you have an ldt, you need to save and reload that too 19:02:24 and if you are doing all that, you probally want to consider x86 hardware task switching 19:02:51 hmm 19:03:54 which is what i use 19:04:04 --- join: kapple (dutkiewicz@91.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 19:05:18 hmm 19:05:22 I understand now 19:05:30 --- quit: Delphinus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:05:52 good 19:06:06 now we can discuss better topics 19:06:11 like turbine engines 19:06:21 heh 19:06:22 specifically homebuilt ones 19:06:34 --- join: karingo (dutkiewicz@156.portland-13-14rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 19:06:34 * indigo puts on his safty goggles 19:06:37 darn it's not easy :P 19:06:43 lazy flags? 19:06:47 yeah :P 19:06:52 :) 19:06:57 copying on Bochs would be too easy 19:07:03 I'm trying to get a better version out 19:07:12 (and avoid the license) 19:07:18 you writing an emulator from scratch? 19:07:30 http://sf.net/projects/fprem 19:07:31 yip :) 19:07:34 pure ANSI C 19:07:52 #fprem 19:08:46 u can build a basic turbine engine from a couple pieces of metal pipe, PVC tubing, a turbo charger, a spark plug, propane tank, a power supply for the spark plug, and a hair dryer motor to initially spin up the turbocharger 19:09:01 there's no ' in "yours" 19:09:15 indigo: huh? 19:09:26 on your webpage 19:09:32 Logo done by amd Submit your's to amd 19:09:34 oh, tell that to 'amd' ;) 19:09:47 he is doing the entire website 19:09:54 that, and there's two sentances in there with no punctuation 19:10:02 I think he took everything (logo-wise) from www.pouet.net 19:10:59 that looks like slashcode 19:11:04 eheh 19:11:25 darn... I need a RTC device... 19:11:28 so, who wants to build a jet engine? 19:11:33 AirbusA380: you 19:11:35 but then again, everything looks the same now 19:11:43 AirbusA380: you aparrently 19:11:47 eks: wrong, 2 more tries left 19:11:52 indigo: wrong, 2 more tries left 19:11:56 AirbusA380: how bug it is? 19:12:06 AirbusA380: correction: how big will be? 19:12:13 indigo: I think I'm not the only one needing english courses :p 19:12:24 about 1 foot tall and 3 feet wide at most 19:12:33 eks: your english errors are at least understandable :) 19:12:35 more likey 6 in tall and 18 in long 19:12:40 indigo: ;) 19:12:55 AirbusA380: can i connect it with my bike? :P 19:13:02 * eks goes to code the sync() lazyflag catchers 19:13:06 if you can afford the fuel 19:13:16 * indigo goes to sleep 19:13:23 oh... 19:13:27 well first... 19:13:29 i need ideas 19:13:45 i need a data structure that can hold free blocks of memory that won't fragment 19:13:46 if u can attach a bit of propane + cooling oil yeah] 19:14:02 i mean hmm 19:14:03 --- quit: kapple (No route to host) 19:14:08 lubricating oil 19:14:22 otherwise the turbocharger's bearings will melt 19:14:22 i was thinking binary tree, but fragmentation is an issue 19:14:23 AirbusA380: any alternative? 19:14:40 no... 19:14:44 AirbusA380: using electricity? 19:14:51 ill give a site that tells u how to do it 19:14:56 perhaps just a sorted linked list will do... 19:15:16 bah..you guys are boring 19:15:18 http://mdavis19.tripod.com/turbine/ 19:16:11 http://home3.inet.tele.dk/kennethm/ <-- pulsejet and turbojets in action, videos+audio 19:18:58 indigo: problem is ppl not following the topic 19:19:16 ja, that's why they are boring :) 19:19:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o indigo 19:19:34 if you make a jet engine 19:19:38 heh 19:19:44 you'll probably need an "operating system" to operate it :) 19:19:54 carry a big stick and walk softly; you will go far 19:20:07 BadSector: until you reach that state, maybe you should talk with AirbusA380 in #jet ;) 19:20:19 alright guys, answer my question or get banned ;) 19:20:39 hmm 19:20:47 what question :P? 19:20:55 read up 19:20:57 indigo: what about the LEA algorithm the other day? 19:21:10 LEA as in the instruction? 19:21:18 or something else... 19:21:20 and what other day? 19:21:42 indigo: hrm.. maybe I got it wrong.. it's been a long time, but you remember that super allocation algorithm they use in the clibs nowadays? 19:21:51 * eks tries to remember the name... 19:21:52 oh 19:21:58 doug lea's malloc 19:22:13 well, that's not what i want... 19:22:25 the main requirement is that it has not not fragment at all 19:22:26 http://g.oswego.edu/dl/html/malloc.html 19:22:35 s/not/to/ 19:22:35 hrm.. 19:22:56 this is to keep track of the unused physical pages 19:23:11 well, dunno about unfragmenting memory allocators, seems like you try to make a +V2FS+ in mem :P 19:23:26 although, i suppose i could adapts a malloc to do the job 19:23:35 s/adapts/adapt 19:23:41 i'm not doing so well tonight :) 19:23:45 eheh 19:23:50 you are never doing well ;) 19:24:04 hmm... 19:24:10 i kinda like my malloc 19:24:23 problem is that it fragments quite a bit 19:24:31 and i don't have any way to defragment yet 19:25:03 --- quit: alphakiller ("Commando Operating Engine - o meu sistema !!") 19:25:14 lol@Commando 19:25:20 that guy is still on that 19:25:55 man, i wish i didn't have such a desire to write quality software 19:26:03 it would make these mundane tasks go much faster 19:27:46 i guess i'll just adapt my malloc and write a defrag algo that can run ocasionally 19:28:37 hell... 19:28:41 wondering 19:28:46 i might as well just have a big generalized memory manager 19:28:49 if you make a new malloc that does defragmentation 19:28:55 it would be the same code 19:29:08 just different granularity 19:29:16 oh...but... 19:29:29 my malloc stores info in the memory blocks :( 19:29:29 how are you going to inform all code in memory that points to the pointer that malloc returned that the place is changed? 19:29:32 so no good... 19:29:42 the place doesn't change 19:30:06 not when it's in use anywha 19:30:08 anyway 19:30:10 then what kind of defragmentation are going to do? 19:30:25 well, when the memory is freed, if it can be merged with another block, it is 19:32:00 in a general memory allocator you don't always want to do this, because then blocks are always being merged/split 19:32:22 you usually only want to do it when you don't have a large enough block 19:33:05 and especially in my malloc, having 2 16byte blocks isn't any faster than having 2000 16byte blocks 19:33:17 all the 16 byte blocks are in a single node 19:33:26 and the blocks are in a binary tree sorted by size 19:33:41 indigo: personally, in my memory manager, instead of taking care about fragmentation/defragmentationg and such stuff 19:33:56 indigo: i made a function that returns the largest available block 19:34:11 indigo: and the program that uses it, should live with this... 19:34:26 well, that's not always possible 19:34:31 and not really a solution to the problem 19:35:18 good memory managers don't fragment 19:35:28 just like good filesystems don't fragment :P 19:35:59 so anyhow 19:36:01 i'm tired 19:36:05 and i'm going to sleep 19:36:10 --- nick: indigo -> indigo_zzz 19:36:17 actually... 19:36:20 i'll turn the computer off 19:36:35 cool... 19:36:42 :wqa is finally a valid vim command 19:36:57 i was wondering when they would pull their heads out of their asses and do that 19:37:05 alright... 19:37:10 --- quit: indigo_zzz ("zzz") 19:43:05 woohoo! lazy flags works! 19:43:48 uhh 19:43:55 multiple chans same message? 19:47:35 I noticed I said my msg in the wrong chan, so I retyped it in the other 19:49:06 heh 19:49:21 --- part: karingo left #osdev 19:59:45 i'll make an emulator for my computer 20:00:09 which actually doesn't exists, so i'll make only the emulator... 20:00:21 but i don't know what to emulate 20:01:33 uff... anyway i'll make first the computer and then i'll emulate it 20:01:44 hehe 20:03:12 i'll have two Z80s and three chips of static memory next week... but i suppose that i can't do much things with these :P 20:06:43 bye 20:08:28 bye 20:11:30 --- quit: flonze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:21:26 --- join: Delphinus (~peter@203.135.69.65) joined #osdev 20:43:56 --- join: kapple (dutkiewicz@179.portland-13-14rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 21:01:35 --- quit: eks ("Zzzzzzz") 21:02:44 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:08:51 arent there any programs that uudecode a file and dump to stdout? 21:20:38 --- join: downix (~downix@user-38ldf5j.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #osdev 21:27:24 --- quit: BadSector (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:35:30 --- quit: kapple () 22:00:24 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 22:11:49 too many OS choices!!! 22:14:42 how many? 22:14:54 over 400 last count 22:15:17 More than 350 are Unix cone 22:15:47 * downix nods 22:15:54 just finding the OS for the job is more than a headache 22:16:03 No so 22:16:11 Its pretty easy 22:16:31 it's a headache when you're considering a commercial project 22:17:04 For commercial project the choice is very limited 22:17:23 with only 4 to 5 option 22:17:36 One Windows and other Posix's 22:17:46 windows is not an option 22:18:07 and POSIX is irrelevent 22:18:18 clarify 22:19:34 not saying it needs to be a commercial OS, but needs to fit in the design goals of a commercial hardware project 22:19:50 Windows flat out doesn't run on the availible processors, makes it a non-decision there 22:20:40 But it is extenading its hand on avaliable processor so as to be platform independent 22:21:11 windows has dropped support for any CPU save PowerPC, x86 and ARM 22:21:24 no Windows 2k for ALpha, SPARC, PA-RISC or MIPS 22:21:58 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 22:22:14 Are yu sure it includes x86 and Alpha? 22:22:23 huh? 22:22:30 86 is bread and butter of M$ 22:22:49 yes, hence why it's one of only 3 CPU's that Microsoft supports 22:23:14 check that, 4 CPU's 22:23:17 I forgot Itanium 22:23:26 But I dont see other processor so wide spread also 22:23:34 You must be kidding 22:23:46 x86 is a microscopic CPU for total units shipped 22:24:10 my HD alone uses 18 CPU's, none of which are x86 22:24:21 mostly PIC's, H11's, and the like 22:25:17 more H11 CPU's ship in one hour than Intel ships Pentium 4's in a year 22:26:03 Aha 22:26:14 --- join: gruen0 (~avh4@vonderha.user.msu.edu) joined #osdev 22:26:14 Never knew it 22:26:15 but that's too low-end for my needs 22:26:47 the majority of x86 derived CPU's don't fit the design needs, hence why focusing on MIPS, ARM or SPARC 22:27:20 But these processor alrady have specilized OS for them. That work well 22:27:36 not quite true 22:27:46 there are OS's for each one, multiple ones in most cases 22:27:59 need to find an OS that fits the needs up with the hardware 22:28:15 I am wondering what exactly are you looking for which you ar not able to find there 22:29:12 an embeddable OS that can host it's own development environment 22:29:19 that alone is a challenge to find 22:30:08 I dont think that it should be quite tough to write a OS as to your needs for Embedded system in less than 6 months 22:30:50 it took 2 years for Commodore to do it, and they had to license another OS to provide a DOS for it 22:33:40 I, not being an OS designer, highly doubt that I could do better 22:33:52 May be 22:34:19 downix -gotta go now 22:34:25 see ya 22:34:30 c ya later 22:34:40 --- part: jace48 left #osdev 23:07:34 --- join: adu (~andrew@dsl-64-130-166-225.telocity.com) joined #osdev 23:25:03 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:51:02 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 23:59:18 --- quit: jace48 ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.04.25