00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.05.06 00:14:49 bbl 00:14:53 --- quit: jace48 ("Heck y this happens to me?") 00:29:02 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 01:33:10 --- join: yuriz (~yuriz@rcr.teraflops.com) joined #osdev 01:35:15 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-64-34-186-57.telocity.com) joined #osdev 01:42:04 --- quit: I440r_ (": sleep bed go tuck light off ; immediate") 01:48:02 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:00:55 --- quit: Darkvise9 ("Client Exiting") 02:03:08 --- quit: geist () 02:29:53 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 02:53:53 --- join: Jeroen_ (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-022.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 02:54:32 Hoi Jeroen_ ;) 03:02:18 --- join: corsairk8 (~localhost@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 03:05:37 --- quit: Jeroen (No route to host) 03:12:06 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:17:08 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 03:17:27 good morning 03:21:01 hey eks and people :) 03:23:42 --- nick: eks -> eks[bbl8r] 03:28:51 --- nick: Jeroen_ -> Jeroen 03:36:11 hey yuriz 04:08:21 --- join: tirloni (gpt@neutron.tirloni.org) joined #osdev 04:15:26 --- join: indigo (~daboy@lnk2-bfrost-gw.binary.net) joined #osdev 04:15:40 hej 04:18:57 hi 04:28:22 --- nick: eks[bbl8r] -> eks 04:28:30 hej hej 04:28:47 bonan matenon :) 04:29:33 --- quit: Rico (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:30:31 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 04:38:02 --- join: Ricardo (Rico-@145.92.6.35) joined #osdev 04:38:04 bonan matenon eks! 04:38:10 Hey people! 04:38:16 kiel vi fartas antaux? 04:38:23 andaux :P 04:38:47 Where is my Rico handle? 04:38:55 indigo: andaux? 04:40:37 today 04:41:21 indigo: doing fine thx :) 04:41:26 you? 04:42:16 mi fartas bonan :P 04:42:24 http://wwwtios.cs.utwente.nl/traduk/EO-EN/Translate/ <-- doesn't know anything about 'andaux' :( 04:42:30 hum 04:42:34 maybe i mispelled it 04:42:43 try it without the x 04:42:45 ux = ubreve 04:42:46 hodiau^ today 04:42:59 hm...that's probally it :) 04:43:16 i must be speaking the bad-spellr dileckt 04:43:24 ehehe 04:44:48 hrm.. "kiel vi fartas" "how fare you" :p 04:44:49 i almost have tauga's vm done 04:44:58 yes, something like that 04:45:03 farti = to live 04:45:10 kiel = how/in what way 04:46:00 kiel vi fartas can be roughly translated to "sup?" 04:46:15 mi scii esperanton nun ;) 04:46:58 heh 04:47:21 mi scias esperanton nun :P 04:47:33 hafta conjugate yer verbs 04:48:05 and i hafta go :( 04:48:06 ehehe, that last one wasn't in english nor esperanto :p 04:48:16 alright 04:48:18 have a good time 04:48:19 really? 04:48:34 well, "mi skias erperanton nun" means "i know esperanto now" 04:49:00 sci/i == know, know how 04:49:14 jes, mi scias :) 04:49:58 mi iru 04:50:00 maybe I should work a bit more on my esperantoskillz 04:50:04 cya 04:50:07 gxis la revido 04:50:23 --- quit: indigo ("parlu esperanton!") 04:53:05 --- quit: eks ("mi iru ankau") 05:19:59 --- join: juu (ammu@baana-62-165-190-249.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 05:25:28 --- quit: Ricardo ("Erection reset by queer") 05:25:31 --- join: Del|Home (~delphinus@61-217-221-220.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #osdev 05:26:26 hey yuriz 05:26:44 yuriz.. 05:26:49 long time no se 05:26:49 e 05:28:35 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-1130.barrelled.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 05:28:47 afternoon all 05:29:07 hey pavlovskii 05:29:56 pafflo 05:30:15 hey juu 05:30:21 juu : are you jukka? :) 05:30:24 still learning finnish? :) 05:30:46 juu : yep, and will be to do it for nearest 5 years? 05:30:47 fine, though, cleaning room.. .. so i can't be fine.. or maybe , who knows.. 05:30:58 it = fintut? :) 05:31:21 maybe just in time :) 05:31:27 i coudl start soon 05:31:46 --- join: mdog (maddoq@213.243.132.209) joined #osdev 05:32:09 hi 05:32:15 h 05:33:08 a few q's on os development.. firstly, where could I find a tutor on keyboad driver, or more extensively, keyboard and a simple shell 05:34:24 currently my toy-os just boots up to protected mode with GRUB, displays some information and hangs.. the kernel is started from assembly code, where the control is passed to C function, I have already printf(), putchar() and itoa() implemented for printing.. 05:35:00 mdog : it's trivial :) 05:35:00 so, I guess I have a pretty good start on where to continue 05:35:25 mdog : get RadiOS, it has a nice kernel debugger with disassembler ;-) 05:35:50 * pavlovskii has his birthday today 05:35:58 blah.. it's more fun to do your own, and good way to learn also 05:36:07 pavlovskii : happy birthday man! 05:36:10 pavlovskii happy bithday. :-) 05:36:20 mdog: www.qzx.com/lib 05:36:24 thanks all :) 05:36:38 mdog: go to the osdev section 05:36:44 I'm spending it (a) on IRC and (b) working for my exam on Thursday. fantastic. 05:36:52 I'm having an 'official' birthday after all this is over 05:37:04 ahh, I should've checked the topic first 05:37:10 any ideas where could i put A2 sized papers 05:37:14 pff.. paris paper 05:37:19 it's even larger than a2 05:37:20 pavlovskii : you know, your nick is exactly like a surname of well-known ukrainian political analyst Glib Pavlovskij ;) 05:37:36 pavlovskii: today the big THREE OH? ;) 05:37:48 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:37:55 yuriz: is he the same Pavlovskij as Putin's advisor? 05:38:01 air: no, the big two-one 05:38:04 Dr. Ignatio Moebius ! 05:38:21 pavlovskii : nope, Putin is in Russia, and I'm speaking about Ukraine ;) 05:38:33 yuriz: maybe he moved. ok, different Pavlovskii 05:39:05 moshna pagavarit pa-ruskij? 05:39:06 pavlovskii : it's a quite frequent surname in Russia and Ukraine 05:39:14 juu : konecho! 05:39:24 ha, i alwats .. never know how to i.. ah. now i forgot even enlighs 05:39:29 juu: kak dela? 05:39:31 :) 05:39:41 i never rememebr how to 05:39:53 pff.. int.. what is it called chnaging those letters 05:39:59 transliteration.. 05:40:04 yuriz what's different between nasm and gnu asm? 05:40:08 juu : you should say "spasibo, neploho :" 05:40:08 yea, i never transliterate like others 05:40:11 yuriz: I found the name in a book... I. G. Pavlovskii is a former General of the Army 05:40:28 Del|Home: GNU asm is evil, NASM is good 05:40:29 Del|Home : !!!! 05:40:33 yuriz moi ruskij ne-harasho 05:40:40 pavlovskii : xactly 05:40:57 juu: moj finiskij esche huzhe ;-) 05:41:11 pravda? ;) 05:41:12 yuriz why? 05:41:16 puhutaan sitten suomea! :) 05:41:42 Del|Home : GNU AS AT&T syntax is shit, actually :) 05:42:00 yuriz that's only thing i know. :-) 05:42:02 juu : na:ka:min %) 05:42:11 Del|Home: take a look at some of the .S files in some Linux source 05:42:27 those pile of crap are GNU assembler listings 05:42:44 pavlovskii : oh yeah, I've almost got brain-damage when analyzed that head.S yesterday :=[ 05:43:08 yuriz. ha. :-) 05:43:14 pavlovskii : I cut a CPU detection algo out there ;-) 05:43:27 who use pepper? 05:43:39 Del|Home : what pepper? 05:43:50 yuriz ^~¨ key makes you ä and ö :) 05:43:51 cross platform text edit. 05:44:11 näkemiin = good bye btw ;) 05:44:13 juu : I have koi-8 that doesn't work in Bx %-) 05:44:13 at&t should be publicly executed for the atrocity they have created 05:44:17 yuriz http://www.hekkelman.com/pepper/index.html 05:44:22 yuriz free download today. 05:44:28 juu : ohh... excuse me.. %-) 05:44:45 Del|Home: apparently it doesn't do anything VC++ doesn't already do 05:44:57 juu : I told you my finnish is very bad ;-) 05:45:06 yuriz you have button which has ¨^~ marks on it, dont you? :) press it and then "a" 05:45:10 shoudl give ä 05:45:16 corsairk8 : really? About assembly syntax?? 05:45:42 juu : yep, that button provides russian 'z' ;-) 05:45:59 juu : nope, 'ee' ;-) 05:46:45 juu : I use Linux and U.S. ASCII keyboard layout, it's impossible to produce those umlauts :) 05:47:28 hmm... damn americans 05:47:45 --- join: eks (~instinc@h24-70-178-38.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 05:48:06 juu : I'm not american, btw; we just always used U.S. ascii layout on our keyboards ;) 05:48:12 wb eks 05:48:36 i know 05:48:44 cookieks! 05:48:48 yuriz: where are you from? 05:48:57 ukraine, moved to finland 05:49:03 hmm 05:49:06 * juu replaces everyone other soon :) 05:49:15 juu: hi eks 05:49:26 yuriz where is ndepgen? 05:49:34 i'll start answering others questions and then ask and then so 05:49:37 near Kiev, isn't it? 05:50:08 yuriz was it that language takes til kiev that proverb in russian? 05:51:05 kjisik doehats kiev apff.. no nothing like that :) 05:51:12 Del|Home etc/tools 05:51:21 just run make; make install 05:51:29 yes. 05:51:45 peter@debian:~/tmp/RadOS$ make 05:51:45 make[1]: Entering directory `/home/peter/tmp/RadOS/kernel' 05:51:45 make[1]: *** No rule to make target `kernel.rdl'. Stop. 05:51:45 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/peter/tmp/RadOS/kernel' 05:51:45 make: *** [kernel] Error 2 05:51:54 make dep 05:51:57 first ;-)) 05:51:58 hey guys :) 05:52:05 hey girls 05:52:11 peter@debian:~/tmp/RadOS$ make dep 05:52:11 /bin/sh: ndepgen: command not found 05:52:11 make: *** [dep] Error 127 05:52:11 peter@debian:~/tmp/RadOS$ 05:52:21 Del|Home : by the way; RadiOS ;) 05:52:28 Del|Home : which ndepgen 05:52:35 have you installed it? 05:52:41 it should be in ~/bin 05:52:52 or you don't have ~/bin in your path? 05:52:55 PATH 05:55:44 pavlovskii : well, my town is 303km south-east from Kiev :) 05:56:17 but is it near Ndepgen? :) 05:56:20 nm 05:56:38 pavlovskii : Ndepgen is NASM dependency generator ;-)) 05:56:44 --- quit: mdog ("leaving") 05:57:05 tool used in RadiOS to generate dependencies file 06:01:04 you should get '* ' finally 06:02:06 yuriz found web lousiest portal 06:02:12 they dont even nkow how to write 06:02:24 and it prompts in the beginning that "update your explorer" 06:02:28 even i use opera 06:02:49 (it's loader variables) 06:03:16 juu: where is this? 06:06:38 --- quit: tirloni (Remote closed the connection) 06:09:19 wait 06:09:42 thenthere is said "unfortunately old news had to be removed because of lousy way they were written 06:09:52 do you guys know how many syscalls does QNX have? 06:09:59 http://www.mobiiliportaali.tk/ 06:10:19 "we brign future's tecnologies solutions at today's" 06:11:25 "we believes that mobile tecnology could empower people's live" 06:11:45 only english they have are all, too ,written wrongly 06:11:48 lucky I don't speak Finnish, or this would suck 06:12:04 "inside producter: Injection Robot Force " 06:12:26 "lähetä sms (small message short) " 06:12:29 that's wrong 06:12:33 hehe 06:12:40 every sentence IS wrong 06:12:45 i told 06:12:59 the background was ordered from desing firm they say 06:14:56 --- quit: jewel ("new hardware") 06:15:56 --- quit: rob_ert (Remote closed the connection) 06:16:44 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 06:19:48 my FAT driver is fuxored so I will leave and eat lunch 06:20:13 Hehe 06:20:16 Have fun ;) 06:20:33 and not come back! 06:20:39 well, maybe later 06:20:50 :) 06:20:53 See you. 06:22:13 --- quit: pavlovskii () 06:22:59 bbiab 06:23:02 --- quit: eks () 06:23:18 Hi yuriz :) 06:23:45 hey robert 06:23:58 how's your OS projects? ;-) 06:24:12 RadiOS is moving forward ;-) 06:24:30 bbl 06:24:30 food 06:24:34 Well, I'm learning forth, atm, so no Primula development today :) 06:24:46 * yuriz is working with boot modules linker now :) 06:24:52 rob_ert : why forth? 06:25:10 Why not? :) 06:25:11 there was interview on irc 06:25:16 :) 06:25:23 * juu also 06:25:24 Well, I started before that 06:25:26 food now 06:31:22 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 06:31:35 Hi. 06:31:43 Hi all 06:38:35 bbl 06:38:38 bye all 06:38:59 --- quit: jace48 ("Heck y this happens to me?") 06:45:26 re 06:45:42 wb XD 06:46:06 hello 06:46:44 --- part: yuriz left #osdev 06:53:37 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 07:52:33 hey 07:52:37 what syscalls does gcc use? 07:53:41 --- quit: corsairk8 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:55:49 --- join: nothing (~nothing@pcp01518417pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #osdev 07:56:18 --- join: tirloni (gpt@neutron.tirloni.org) joined #osdev 07:56:58 Hi :) 07:57:01 hi 07:58:02 murr 07:59:00 --- join: Rico (Rico@node-c-1c6a.a2000.nl) joined #osdev 08:05:24 --- join: nbsp (g@ip68-14-60-7.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 08:05:52 Hi 08:10:44 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:18:45 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@libnt63.lib.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 08:25:21 hi pavlovskii 08:26:03 ah, hi nothing 08:27:44 hanging out at the college library? ;-) 08:28:29 not exactly 'hanging out' 08:28:31 but yes :) 08:28:43 uurgh, revising for my last exam 08:28:49 :) 08:28:58 ic? 08:29:03 what exam? 08:29:05 coding? 08:29:05 Imperial College 08:29:11 london? 08:29:12 Artificial Intelligence 08:29:21 no (it's Prolog), and yes 08:29:40 cool 08:29:57 fuck this! 08:29:58 you should go to Oxford/Cambridge for your Masters =[ 08:29:59 er =] 08:30:01 what kind of exam? 08:30:13 IE automatically crashes when I was watching a preview of Ice Age 08:30:14 nothing: Oxford and Cambridge are too up themselves 08:30:25 juu: a written AI exam 08:30:30 pavlovskii: do you have a Cockney accent? :) 08:30:30 Word crashed 3 times in a row 08:30:31 actually university of helsinki was 5 th on the european unviersities, cambridfe and oxofr were before, ofcourse 08:30:35 this is fucked up 08:30:40 "Oi, I luk the OS coding, suhr" 08:30:46 nothing: no, despite having been here nearly 3 years :) 08:30:47 Rico the 3d artist was finnish 08:31:05 juu: IC is often in the top 4 in the UK 08:31:07 Rico: what version of windows? 08:31:29 pavlovskii: have you discussed Moebius with any of your professors? 08:31:36 this was europe in genral 08:31:42 no... I wouldn't know who to show it to 08:31:47 nothing: xp 08:32:04 xp pro? 08:32:06 yes 08:32:15 nothing: the computing guys would be like, "so? it's an OS... look! I'm using an OS right now!" 08:32:22 hehe 08:32:26 ingrates =/ 08:32:39 why not show it to a CS prof or something? 08:32:51 I might go to the University of Amsterdam 08:32:56 not sure yet 08:32:57 rob_ert already know variables in forth? 08:33:02 Sure 08:33:08 hmm, could do. but I don't know what I'd gain. except recognition. 08:33:44 you can do that for your..hmm.. master examination 08:33:51 Bwahaha!!! Look, it's that guy writing his own OS. What was it called? Mobius or something? Whahaha!!! 08:33:53 pff.. studying barchelor or master now? 08:34:07 He think he's the new Linus Torvalds 08:34:10 hahaha!!! 08:34:13 batchelor (i.e. 3-year course) 08:34:27 Rico: Linus Torvalds can kiss my arse :) 08:34:38 I'm doing bachelors too, 4 year course 08:34:56 --- nick: Rico -> LinusTorvalds 08:35:02 * LinusTorvalds licks pavlovskii ass 08:35:05 --- nick: LinusTorvalds -> Rico 08:35:21 lol 08:37:36 and conversation died 08:37:45 :) 08:38:26 not because of me! 08:38:38 nothing killed it 08:38:43 Kill nothing. 08:38:43 anyway 08:38:51 * Rico kills nothing 08:39:03 I thought doing AI would teach me how to make a giant robot which could go around and crush buildings etc. 08:39:06 like on Transformers 08:39:10 but it's really dull 08:39:40 like? 08:39:54 I can take AI next year too, I'm going to D: 08:39:55 :D 08:40:10 ah, it's OK I suppose 08:40:23 pavlovskii: i've got a GREAT AI movie, really funny to watch, I'll upload it, one moment 08:40:25 the first part of the course was on search algorithms 08:40:40 then we had knowledge/logic 08:40:52 what did you expected? it's cs! 08:40:52 :) 08:40:52 then some crap on intelligent agents (i.e. Microsoft Paperclip) 08:41:02 intelligent? 08:41:12 haha! 08:41:18 they're supposed to do stuff for you, I dunno 08:42:05 pavlovskii: I wil get the same thing as you do, our first assignment is making a comp opponent with tic-tac-toe :) 08:42:20 hah 08:42:37 I could send you my code, but it's not difficult 08:42:42 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010427&mode=classic 08:42:50 paper clips? 08:43:25 there was In UF that "paperclips always arrive when you try to do something useful " or soemthing like it 08:51:26 84% 08:51:28 hang on! 08:52:31 ? 08:52:42 AI movie 08:52:56 is it the film, "AI"? 08:53:00 no 08:53:05 --- join: corsairk8 (~CorsairK8@pc-62-30-121-110-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 08:53:19 cos that would take a long time to upload 08:53:30 Evolved Virtual Creatures 08:53:59 http://www.planetdax.com/sims.mpeg (copy 'n paste) 08:54:15 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 08:55:17 lol 08:55:30 Rico: got any more of those? 08:57:33 no, that's the only one 08:57:54 if you could make something like that, then you're a real AI programmer :D 08:58:50 are those genetic algorithms applied to boxes? 08:59:39 pavlovskii: how did you learn how to write an ati or fdc driver? 09:00:05 no idea 09:00:29 fdc: I copied the Fabian Nunez (?) driver first, which gave the the basic outline 09:00:38 oh 09:00:38 that one is all over the net; I got it from Chris Giese's page 09:00:47 ati->ata, ide? 09:00:57 (ati = video card) 09:01:16 Ati Rage Pro 09:01:24 then when I had to rewrite it, I did it from scratch based on Debs' reference page 09:01:51 for IDE, I copied the minix one and gradually customised it 09:02:05 ohps, ata i mean 09:02:05 I'm not sure which is easier... 09:02:20 oh 09:02:25 what is that sims.mpeg crap? 09:02:31 what's the difference between ATA and IDE? 09:02:32 what's so special about that? 09:02:37 nothing: it's funny 09:02:53 Rico: ATA is Enhanced IDE (i.e. what you use on your hard disk) 09:03:01 ATAPI is the CD-ROM extensions 09:03:14 * pavlovskii is going to watch Rico's mpeg again :D 09:03:18 hehe 09:03:32 I don't have an ATA hard disk 09:03:40 does the ATI driver work with IDE? 09:03:51 * Rico has SCSI =D 09:04:04 Rico: Ultra160? 09:04:11 U2W 09:04:20 corsairk8: yes, it should work with 'old' IDE as well as EIDE 09:04:30 my driver does LBA and CHS for example 09:05:11 ah 09:05:17 whats the difference? 09:05:18 brb 09:05:25 between LBA and CHS? 09:05:32 I'm gonna watch my sims.mpeg movie too :D 09:05:40 why do you need both ? :) 09:05:46 its monday may 6th right? 09:05:55 corsairk8: yes, my birthday :) 09:05:56 y 09:06:01 onnea, pavlovskii 09:06:04 pavlovskii: Happy birthday! 09:06:12 Hartelijk Gefeliciteerd! 09:06:29 thanks all! :D 09:06:51 happy birthday 09:07:05 or as Rico puts it, Hartelijk Gefeliciteerd! 09:07:13 Grattis på födelsedagen! 09:07:15 heh, I wish I could reply in Dutch 09:07:19 or Swedish 09:07:20 :D 09:07:23 Say "tack" 09:07:28 tack 09:07:31 :D 09:08:41 hyvää syntymäpäivää = happy birthday 09:08:49 onnea = congratulations 09:09:02 what is the version number of pavlovskii 09:09:05 s now? :) 09:09:13 21 09:09:20 in hex? ;) 09:09:28 oh 09:09:43 hmm.. hex syystemm... i'd be hmm 09:09:46 cool! I am 10101b 09:09:49 :) 09:10:35 * juu is 10011b 09:10:43 hey i'm only 13!! (in hex though) 09:11:02 I'm 10. 09:11:08 :) 09:11:15 You also 10, in base 19 09:11:21 We're all ten. 09:11:26 or if i use octal i'm older than pavlovskii in decimal 09:11:38 I'm 0x13! 09:11:39 i think im gonna setup a cvs server on my 'zeus' box 09:11:41 23o compared to 21d 09:11:47 does anyone know a good way to set it up? 09:12:03 umm, I'd use Sourceforge personally 09:12:06 age is just such consept 09:12:13 I am 1 09:12:16 hehe 09:12:19 in base 21 09:12:22 yep 09:12:26 * juu wonders how much womens magazines would pay for the tip 09:12:36 "become younger in eye flash" 09:12:41 what's your age in base 50? 09:12:58 I could work that out... 09:13:04 but sourceforge sucks pavlovskii, im constantly changing things in my cvs and that just doesnt keep up 09:13:05 Uh 09:13:12 pavlovskii: you'd be 10 in base 21 09:13:13 corsairk8: I know 09:13:17 id rather host it myself, as i dont wanna make my sources public 09:13:22 My age in base 50 is g 09:13:23 too 09:13:27 Rico: good point 09:13:39 1 * 21^1 + 0 * 21^0 09:13:48 = 1 09:13:49 rob_ert is g!!! 09:13:52 oh dear 09:13:54 * juu hides 09:14:08 juu is j years old xDDD 09:14:12 your 17 rob_ert? 09:14:16 juu ck8 * pav + 09:14:17 ohps 16 09:14:17 . 09:14:26 AAAHHHHHHAAHAAAAWHAAWHAAHAAAWHAWHAWHAWHAAAHAAAA!!!!! 09:14:37 rico, do you have any more mpgs of you dancing to ABBA songs? 09:14:45 nothing: nope 09:14:48 corsairk8: 16!?! xD 09:14:51 --- join: downix (~downix@user-38lde14.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #osdev 09:14:53 Yes I am 16. 09:14:54 I downloaded that but I didn't have the right video decompressor :| 09:14:55 Hi 09:15:06 Rico: send me that mpg again 09:15:24 k, I'm going to get 10 mins of work in before the library shuts 09:15:29 see yous later 09:15:30 morning 09:15:33 http://www.planetdax.com/sims.mpeg (copy 'n paste) 09:15:44 --- quit: pavlovskii () 09:15:47 not that one 09:15:51 the one where you are in your room dancing 09:16:03 http://www.telusplanet.net/public/rambo1/Video018.avi 09:16:55 you know what they say, there's 10 types of people. Those who know base2 and thoswho not 09:19:19 Rico: that's you, right? 09:19:22 nope 09:19:47 I'll make everyone believe it is, but I'm not :) 09:21:40 man 09:21:44 that cracks me up every time i see that 09:22:01 that guy is such a fruitcake 09:23:19 http://www.enumering.com/404.html - Whow, I love this 404! 09:24:07 http://www.oxboweb.com/404.lasso 09:24:33 Rico better than the actual context`:) 09:24:35 ? 09:30:54 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust37.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 09:33:27 --- nick: Del|Home -> Del|zZzZ 09:40:03 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@gordon.ee.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 09:40:20 boo 10:19:48 back 10:19:54 yikes! 10:20:04 it's the bday ghost! 10:21:05 xD 10:26:28 --- quit: Del|zZzZ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:31:36 --- quit: Jeroen (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:31:43 --- join: Jeroen (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-022.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 10:32:37 --- quit: Jeroen (Remote closed the connection) 10:33:20 --- join: Jeroen (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-022.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 10:35:55 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 10:37:12 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:41:07 --- quit: Jeroen (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:41:30 --- join: Jeroen (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-022.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 10:43:56 A Dutch politician is shot down today :'( 10:43:59 --- join: Aardappel (~Aardappel@pD9E10F8B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:44:10 Aardappel: Onze Pim... :'( 10:44:29 heh 10:44:30 Rico? 10:44:39 PIM! 10:44:44 Pim Fortuin 10:44:45 --- join: Pigsbig78 (Pigsbig78@ACBAFFAB.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 10:45:23 ?? 10:45:39 was murdered? 10:45:45 yues 10:45:46 --- quit: Pigsbig78 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:45:50 Rico assassinated him 10:45:58 all because rico is a forth hater :/ 10:46:10 Hah 10:46:18 Hoi, Rico! 10:46:32 Why not love forth, like futhin does, Rico? 10:46:40 heheh :P 10:47:24 i don't know what lies you have been told rico! maybe you have been told forth is a write-only language? lies and lies and lies.. it is a sad and dreary world 10:48:06 heh 10:48:19 Hehe 10:48:23 you are a terrible man, futhin 10:48:25 Someone said forth is easier to read. 10:48:26 a terrible, terrible man 10:48:41 Then I asked him to write x=a[i++]; in forth :) 10:48:45 Not as elegant as in C. 10:48:46 Pim was my hero 10:48:52 Pim-Pim? 10:49:00 I would never hurt him, I'd vote for him 10:49:04 pim is politician? 10:49:07 yes 10:49:15 k 10:49:38 Dutch most famous one 10:49:39 Are you Pim? 10:49:52 ... 10:49:59 forth sucks 10:50:07 and it's unreadable 10:50:09 Heh 10:50:18 heh 10:50:30 : TASKS-OF-TODAY RICO SLAP ; 10:50:49 * Rico slaps Rico around a bit with a large trout 10:50:51 Stop that! 10:51:07 lol 10:52:49 rob_ert: i 1 + a + FETCH x STORE 10:52:49 rob_ert: not too elegant.. but many other things are more elegant in forth than in C 10:53:55 Yeah, I know :-) 10:54:03 hm 10:54:43 x = a[i+1] 10:54:45 Heh 10:54:50 Not x = a[i++] 10:54:50 :) 10:55:22 i a + @ x ! 1 i +! 10:55:29 That's more correct, I think. 10:56:17 Rico: what's up with pim? 10:56:57 bah 10:56:57 who'd use Forth when there's False 10:57:24 Cool... Aardappel hasn't been speaking for a very long time. 10:57:34 * Aardappel shuts up 10:57:53 * Aardappel is scared to talk any further 10:57:53 ;) 10:57:53 Nah, komm hier. 10:57:59 rob_ert 1+ might be faster than i 1 + 10:58:02 We won't hurt you. 10:58:08 mmm dunno I am usually too busy doing stuff to watch whats going on in channels 10:58:11 dont trust rob_ert :) 10:58:13 juu: No, i is just the address. 10:58:26 * juu will at least bite some fresh flesh right when he comes 10:58:27 And note 10:58:29 :) 10:58:32 it's 1 i +! 10:58:35 not 1 i + 10:58:37 and when I do look, my opportunity for saying "X sucks" has already gone 10:58:43 i @ 1+ i ! would work too 10:58:48 what ever 10:58:54 i was not reading either 10:58:54 :) 10:58:56 Bah 10:59:01 * rob_ert slaps jukka. 10:59:23 [$1=$[\%1\]?~[$1-f;!*]?]f: 10:59:27 * juu dosn't notice anything 11:00:29 --- quit: nothing (Remote closed the connection) 11:05:57 rob_ert: no, this is equivalent to x = a[i++] --- i 1 + a + FETCH x STORE 11:06:16 you aren't fetching from i 11:06:20 i is a counter 11:06:23 I know. 11:06:26 But look 11:06:27 you add that to the a (which is an array) 11:06:32 and then you fetch from the array 11:06:37 and store that to x 11:06:39 trust me 11:06:40 i'm right :P 11:06:44 Heh 11:06:58 i is a variable 11:07:14 i++ is the same thing as i + 1 right :) 11:07:18 No 11:07:35 i++ = increment i by 1 ... 11:07:36 ? 11:07:40 Yes... but 11:07:42 a = i++; 11:07:47 <-- i code C++ too :P 11:07:49 that will return the old i in a 11:07:53 a = ++i; 11:07:58 that will return the NEW i in a 11:08:11 --- join: nothing (~nothing@pcp01518417pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #osdev 11:08:28 so, x = a[i++] equals to x = a[i]; i++; 11:08:36 2 statements in one :) 11:08:48 rob_ert: i a + FETCH x STORE i 1+ :P 11:09:14 i a + @ x ! i 1+ 11:09:33 No 11:09:34 er 11:09:40 i'm treating i like a constant 11:09:41 heh 11:09:45 i is a variable :) 11:09:55 bleah! it's faster to store numbers to a constant ;) 11:09:58 like i440r does ;) 11:10:09 i440r uses constants for all his variables :P 11:10:38 i use var - which is identical to a constant 11:10:47 if i want a constqant i use const which compiles a literal 11:10:52 heh 11:10:55 i was just DoSed to the stone age 11:10:59 and literals are TEN times faster than constants/vars 11:15:41 nothing who by ? 11:15:47 some idiot on dalnet 11:15:54 well thats dal for ya 11:15:58 saturated my downstream with 200k/s 11:16:05 is there any way around that kind of attack? 11:16:15 what was he doing exactly 11:16:26 if it was a UDP flood thats difficult to combat 11:16:34 a ton of ICMP echo requests from various hosts 11:16:42 you can fireall it but it will still affect u 11:16:44 Heh 11:16:47 ohh 11:16:52 he smurf attacked you 11:16:53 Why the hell are you on DalNet? 11:16:57 someone try to ping me 11:17:04 ping my address tell me if you can do it 11:17:17 robert fone your isp and tell him to fire whoever put up his firewall 11:17:27 smurf attacks should ALWAYS be firewalled 11:17:32 Hu? 11:17:37 Don't you mean nothing? 11:17:45 _I_ haven't been DoSed :)= 11:17:51 tell your isp his firewall responds to ping requests on the broadcast address 11:17:53 can someone please ping 68.82.100.127? 11:17:55 yes i mean nothing lol 11:17:58 i want to see if my filter rule is working 11:18:18 i'll ping 11:18:20 just sec 11:18:25 nothing: timed out 11:18:30 ok thanks pav 11:18:35 May 6 12:25:13 ICMP: echo from gordon.ee.ic.ac.uk (155.198.115.126) (40 bytes) 11:18:37 =] 11:18:41 Request timed out. 11:18:53 nothing. i ping the broadcast address of your network saying that the source of the ping is YOUR ip. everyone on the netowrk now stars sending YOU ping replies 11:18:57 May 6 11:59:38 ICMP: echo from 216.104.194.46 (18004 bytes) 11:18:58 May 6 11:59:38 ICMP: echo from 203.128.64.9 (18004 bytes) 11:18:58 May 6 11:59:39 ICMP: echo from 202.98.34.74 (18004 bytes) 11:19:06 I440r: it wasn't smurf 11:19:11 these were IPs from elsewhere 11:19:15 not on my subnert 11:19:16 * juu traces ip 11:19:16 not even comcast 11:19:20 i think they were spoofed 11:19:21 hrm 11:19:30 i'm just wondering, is it unstoppable? 11:19:40 even if i block icmp, it will still flood my connect right? 11:19:41 you on a static ? 11:19:45 yes 11:19:49 ugh 11:19:58 suggest you firewall ALL pings 11:20:13 ok, but even if that is done, a flood can still choke bandwidth right? 11:20:13 stop replying to pings 11:20:15 what ip is this anyway? 11:20:21 :) 11:20:24 lol 11:20:52 went through germany 11:20:56 hey! 11:20:59 tell me 11:21:17 the whole time i was attacked my CPU load was like 2-5% 11:21:27 so i assume it just choked my bandwidth 11:21:44 your machine was spending alot of time trying to reply to pings 11:21:52 if it just ignored them it would have less of an effect 11:22:01 well, i just said CPU wasn't affected 11:22:25 oh i misread it 11:22:36 thunked you mean load avg was between 2 and 5 heh 11:22:36 lol 11:22:56 when you had purp, I440r 11:23:00 was it ever DoSSed? 11:23:09 hrm. not that i remember 11:23:17 did you ever get hack attempts? 11:23:18 it was rooted a cpl of times tho 11:23:21 hahahaha 11:23:23 it was rooted? 11:23:25 wtf 11:23:28 yes. 11:23:31 that sucks 11:23:34 kinda 11:23:36 didn't you secure it? 11:23:43 partially 11:23:46 how did they get in? 11:23:53 some exploit 11:23:57 cant remember what 11:24:00 what daemon was at fault? 11:24:05 but an upgrade killed he exploit 11:24:15 was too long ag, i cant remember lol 11:24:26 yeah, who cares about a cpl roots 11:24:31 harmless stuff 11:24:45 yea - i only lost 10 years of assembler source files 11:24:48 nothing much 11:24:50 harmless 11:24:54 heh 11:24:59 you should have only run daemons you trusted 11:25:05 like, right now i only run the latest Apache 11:25:14 and an ftp daemon on my local network 11:25:19 bound to 192.168.1.1 11:25:30 run freebsd and you'll be more secure too.. 11:26:12 and totally unable to do ANYTHING hehe 11:26:16 i ran fbsd for about an hour 11:26:25 got so fucking frustrated i deleted the partition 11:26:26 lol 11:26:29 lol 11:26:32 what frustrated you about it? 11:26:42 joe /etc/passwd 11:26:47 lol 11:26:48 change default shel; 11:26:51 quit log in 11:26:53 no change 11:26:56 BULLSHIT 11:27:00 heh 11:27:34 i dont need that sort of paranoia that you need to compile /etc/passwd etc into some non world readable binary format 11:27:35 hmm. someone rm -rf / 'd I440r box? 11:27:36 grr 11:27:44 basically yes 11:28:05 and extendedly? 11:28:08 --- quit: futhin ("bye for now") 11:28:22 rooted me. modified the kernel so it would give away my passwords, modified various other apps too 11:28:29 I440r: was it a local user or some remote user? 11:28:36 also hit my partition table so that if i tried to reinstall it would blow away my drives 11:28:39 thats how i lost everything 11:28:44 dont knnow 11:28:56 how exactly can they make it blow away drives if you try to reinstall? 11:29:18 dont know 11:29:23 the drives were bootable 11:29:24 BUT 11:29:41 when i booted off the debian install cd the partitions were blown away 11:29:44 somehow 11:30:01 debian said "dont know what this partition is" 11:30:21 were you really pissed off when it happened? 11:30:24 and when i aborted and rebooted - none of the partitions were bootable any more 11:30:29 only SLIGHTLY 11:30:30 lol 11:30:36 and this happened *multiple* times? 11:30:40 no 11:30:45 THIS happned once 11:30:55 hmm.. I440r know who or where he was? 11:30:56 but i was rooted again but as i was being rooted i was watching :) 11:31:12 i was also on the fone to the guys isp - and his account suddenly disappeared :) 11:31:21 juu thye first ? no 11:31:32 hmm 11:31:35 which isp attempt another one? 11:31:40 the second rooting was a guy on the same hub as me on the isp 11:31:41 something about a static ip and a domain must really attract crackers =] 11:31:47 i was in vegas 11:31:53 las vegas cable modem 11:32:02 some guy who also had a cable modem was rooting me lol 11:32:19 i foned lvcm and told them to watch wat such and such an IP was doing 11:32:20 they did. 11:32:21 sounds clever 11:32:35 i think the guy had a little visit from a nice poliece officer shortly after :) 11:32:38 did you get IP logs of the first time? 11:32:42 no 11:32:44 i got NOTHING 11:32:54 EVERYTHING was totally blown away 11:32:57 ALL partitions 11:33:06 i mean, maybe you watched it while it was happening? 11:33:19 the second time - yes 11:33:23 the first time. NO 11:33:32 --- join: witten_ (~witten@fire2.LINUX.UCLA.EDU) joined #osdev 11:33:47 i found out i was rootee because /etc/passwd kept being put in / every time i booted 11:33:51 a+rw 11:33:55 heh 11:34:07 it was a clue :) 11:34:20 i don't think i've ever been rooted in my life 11:34:20 i've never had a virus or trojan i didn't put there myself either 11:34:24 on any box of mine 11:34:32 nothing: want to be rooted? :) 11:34:37 lol 11:34:43 witten your evil :P 11:35:12 * juu chk for tv epg 11:35:25 I know it 11:36:50 witten_: yes 11:36:54 witten_: please try 11:37:13 i have the utmost security 11:38:08 hehe 11:38:19 He'll use WinNuke 95 on you, ph33r! 11:38:30 nothing: you've read my comic strip, right? 11:38:31 rob_ert: haha 11:38:36 no i haven't 11:38:42 cna you post a url to your comic? 11:38:49 May 6 11:24:02 TCP: auth connection attempt from Girls.Like.Pepsi.Cans.Open.Drink.Then.Throw.fastnoc.net (216.222 11:38:50 http://pixel.torsion.org/ 11:38:53 .195.236):2222 11:39:00 nice hostname there 11:39:00 lol 11:39:00 (the auth connect) 11:40:07 http://pixel.torsion.org/1/ 11:40:09 hahahaha 11:40:10 good one 11:40:34 :P 11:41:03 --- join: chaos_ (~chaos@deadbabe.badf00d.org) joined #osdev 11:41:38 --- quit: downix ("[BX] Dr. Kavorkian is DYING to use BitchX. Aren't you?") 11:41:40 you need to write some new ones 11:41:41 :-) 11:42:17 nothing: the most recent one is like from last week 11:42:22 ah 11:42:27 but yeah, I need to do more 11:42:40 the graphics are... how would i say this... minimalist ;-) 11:42:44 haha 11:42:50 if you're willing to draw, by all means.. :P 11:43:21 witten, have you ever been DoSed? 11:43:25 or rooted, for that matter 11:44:15 b 11:44:24 juu: ?-: 11:44:51 I haven't been rooted on my home machine, but a machine I've had root on has been rooted I think 11:45:03 and I've.. erm.. been on the giving end of some rootage ;P 11:45:13 lol 11:45:25 b = back 11:45:33 w1tt3n the scr1pt k1dd13 ;p 11:46:27 heh 11:46:33 we were all young and stupid once. :) 11:47:03 did you ever do any security coding (writing haxing programs) 11:47:05 ? 11:48:26 nope 11:48:34 I've done crypto coding though 11:49:07 if you ever need to brute force a fiestel cipher, lemme know :P 11:49:14 cool 11:49:22 will torsion have strong cryptography? 11:49:33 yeah 11:49:34 for identification schemes and the like 11:49:36 neat 11:49:45 crypto is cool ;) 11:49:51 well, I was thinking for remote references 11:50:02 e.g. if you have a reference to an object on another machine.. 11:50:14 it can't be easily forgable or else that's no security at all 11:50:17 * juu guesses url is not there for hours retviering time 11:50:19 yes 11:50:19 so you've gotta use crypto 11:50:25 same thing i was thinking 11:52:09 now I just gottaq figure out why the floppy driver breaks if the kernel is >= 25 sectors in length :P 11:53:58 is torsion still heavily x86-dependent? 11:53:58 * nothing d/ls .14 11:54:18 nothing: yeah 11:54:29 although factoring the x86 stuff out is still high on my todo list 11:54:37 oh wow, dir structure hasn't changed at all ;/ 11:55:17 but a lot of less superficial things have changed :P 11:55:39 like what? 11:56:09 like basic persistence works 11:56:27 you write a value into memory, perform a checkpoint, and at next boot, the value is still in memory when you access it 11:56:37 is that mostly in storage.cc? 11:56:40 mostly 11:56:49 one function in pagemap.cc 11:56:54 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 11:56:58 and some stuff in segment.cc 11:57:41 cool 11:58:45 and eihrul just wrote me a new slab allocator and stuff 11:58:49 I've still gotta integrate that 11:59:31 slab allocator huh 12:00:08 yah 12:00:23 did you look at eihrul's projects? he has some neat things he worked on 12:00:27 like POS 12:00:29 and Pidgin 12:00:32 i think im gonna begin work on my handle/vfs/driver system, but im wondering... how do normal vfs stuff work? 12:00:35 is it hard to write? 12:00:46 very hard, don't even try it, ck8 12:00:47 ;p 12:00:51 lol 12:01:06 nothing: yeah 12:01:34 nothing: some cool stuff 12:01:47 eihrul's a good coder 12:02:04 --- nick: juu -> JuuAbsentSometim 12:02:16 --- nick: JuuAbsentSometim -> JuuAbsentSumtims 12:02:25 oh yea 12:02:34 nothing: but he won't comment worth shit unless you prod him :) 12:02:39 bye 12:02:41 --- quit: pavlovskii () 12:12:56 --- join: StarPig (StarPig@213.142.93.223.adsl.sb.tiscali.no) joined #osdev 12:14:55 Hej. 12:21:36 http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/guss/ 12:26:39 guss? 12:31:51 --- part: witten_ left #osdev 12:33:03 sounds interesting, but how long will it take untill we see something working? 12:39:05 good question 12:39:12 we'll have to design stuff first :) 12:45:40 haha 12:45:46 fprem is better 12:45:47 fprem.sf.net 12:46:14 its made a radical discovery that i beleive they have nick named "source code" 12:46:24 of which, this project seems to have a lack of 12:46:38 we? 12:46:48 we? 12:47:04 we'll have to design stuff first :) 12:47:34 do you guys realise how difficult normal emulation of x86 is? 12:47:49 virtualisation is 10 times harder, and incredibly tricky 12:47:49 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-Sherbrooke-ppp80140.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 12:47:50 corsairk8: yes. 12:48:01 Rico: Yeah. Me and Jeroen. 12:48:25 fprem however, has super-geniouses like eks and slowcoder working on it ;) so we know it will get somewhere (as they are the brains who helped on bochs ;) 12:48:31 emulation of x86 == "software processor" 12:48:33 ? 12:48:38 yup 12:48:50 and you realise that portability and virtualisation is mutually exclusive? 12:49:07 if your are virtualising x86 code you have to have a x86 HOST processor 12:49:09 corsairk8: talking to me? 12:49:19 you brought the link up :) 12:49:27 of course I know that. 12:49:29 i'm not stupid. 12:49:36 which you seem to thing I am. 12:50:00 no, but i think your project promises alot for something which hasnt released a signle line of code 12:51:01 it statmes the GOALSfor the project. 12:51:04 GOALS for 12:51:21 --- nick: JuuAbsentSumtims -> JukkaUF 12:52:43 well, I'm still waiting... :) 12:53:21 lol 12:53:25 more like wishes 12:53:37 how many people are actually working on this contraption? 12:54:24 * corsairk8 brings up the #1 rule for starting open source projects, ask yourself "Is there something better out there already that can be worked on?" 12:54:39 well, fprem isn't that answer for that 12:54:50 Hmm... you ignored that when you started omikron, corsairk8. 12:54:51 you know that ms forbids GPL'd prgomas in newer windows 12:54:51 ? 12:54:54 im not saying it is 12:54:58 lol rob_ert 12:55:05 actually im not 12:55:12 linux is trash 12:55:16 windows is closed source 12:55:22 minix is too simple 12:55:34 and fprem and guss does not have the same goals. 12:55:37 atheos is uses too much vm86 12:55:38 sipmle is beautiful 12:55:42 lol 12:55:57 ive at least evaluated over 20 os projects 12:56:11 And I don't think yours is the best of them 12:56:13 how many emulator projects have you evaluated? 12:56:17 lol it will be rob_ert :) 12:56:29 more like wishes 12:56:32 Wishes! 12:56:32 Wishes! 12:56:34 lol 12:56:46 corsairk8: GUSS is a simulator, not an emulator. 12:57:02 ok 12:57:03 i see 12:58:48 corsairk8: How much have you contribute to FPREM then? 12:59:09 thats not the point 12:59:17 my point is at least im not going off starting an entirely new project 13:00:14 ah well cookin, its your choice or whoevers 13:00:28 --- join: Ghiottone (~eergqwg@ppp-223-16.27-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 13:00:29 nobodys there to stop them starting a new project 13:00:33 never mind anything i said 13:01:47 exactly. 13:01:52 you're just a nevermind 13:02:17 Bra talat :-) 13:02:27 rob_ert: :) 13:04:39 lol 13:05:39 I didn't know you spoke swedish, co. 13:05:43 corsairk8* 13:07:51 i dont 13:08:48 who cares if there's something better out there\ 13:09:14 I will use the best one out there until a better one comes up 13:09:29 that's why I'm still using windows :D 13:09:44 http://www.fazed.net/humor/videos/ 13:09:45 lol 13:09:51 Oh man, this site is hilarious!!! 13:10:03 brb 13:10:28 http://212.75.83.26/spm/phreakshow/build_a_plane.jpg 13:12:33 rotflmao 13:12:34 nice one 13:15:15 http://212.75.83.26/spm/phreakshow/frozen%2520urine.jpg 13:17:53 lol 13:19:07 --- nick: JukkaUF -> Juu 13:20:27 --- part: Ghiottone left #osdev 13:23:56 the 2nd one is stupid! 13:24:37 http://212.75.83.26/spm/phreakshow/suga.jpg 13:24:40 what about that one? :) 13:25:34 cookin been taking your pictures again? 13:25:42 haha 13:26:47 hmm, yeh... 13:27:01 zactly what i was about to say 13:31:57 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@gordon.ee.ic.ac.uk) joined #osdev 13:32:26 what the hell cookin 13:32:28 that's nasty 13:32:30 funny thing is 13:32:36 i've been banned by ck8 for less than that 13:32:37 ;/ 13:32:50 haha 13:33:19 onnea, pavlovskii again 13:33:23 lol nothing 13:33:38 hey 13:33:39 yes but your you nothing and cookin isnt you :) 13:38:01 hi pavlovskii 13:39:17 banned for less? HAH!!! 13:39:24 lol 13:39:35 yah, an old pensioner sucking the cock of another 13:39:41 thats _so_ much better isnt it 13:39:55 im still having nightmares from that 13:40:54 http://bbspot.com/News/2002/03/ocjesus.html <-- seen this? 13:43:17 I like lynx's friend's site better 13:43:38 lmao 13:44:26 pavlovskii lynx sent this .. though, i sent url to him 13:44:28 lynx sent to that page 13:44:30 duud 13:45:25 --- quit: wossname ("(>'.'(>") 13:53:59 --- join: indigo (~daboy@lnk2-bfrost-gw.binary.net) joined #osdev 13:54:10 i need nethack help! 13:54:25 i found a pony, tamed it, and put a saddle on it; now can i do anything? 13:55:09 dont rap.. ah 13:55:10 nm 13:55:14 dont know read manuals 13:55:24 but i'd suggest not to make it meatwurst 13:55:36 beef or anything like that 13:57:07 turn it into glue 13:59:40 hmm... we don't often talk about OS development, do we? 14:00:26 where are the people with the interesting projects? 14:01:49 --- quit: tirloni ("home here I go") 14:03:23 hej hej 14:03:39 i'm riding the pony now :P 14:04:16 Hejsan indigo 14:04:37 hej 14:08:49 pavlovskii coding, not irccing ;) 14:12:57 I want to write a program which can do the things in Rico's video 14:13:04 not the Abba one, the other one 14:13:17 they are called ABBA, not Abba :) 14:13:24 (sorry) 14:13:28 * pavlovskii doesn't know ABBA 14:13:43 what is Abba then? 14:13:52 ABBA is a swedish music group/act 14:13:54 Abba's fiskbullar. 14:14:01 cookin: that's who I meant 14:14:23 anyway, I want to make some evolved virtual creatures which can swim and walk 14:16:30 heh, maybe I should go to #ai and tell them to help me 14:17:43 hey 14:17:48 what day is it today? 14:17:50 which 14:17:51 modany`? 14:17:58 ye 14:17:59 s 14:18:05 or, more conventionally, Monday 14:20:18 ah.. so tomorrow 14:20:23 nm 14:25:11 anyone know graphics in here? 14:25:19 * indigo does 14:25:25 3d anyway 14:25:29 I was wondering what was the best way of drawing antialised primitives (e.g. lines) 14:25:34 * rob_ert knows l33t 1D gfx. 14:25:44 as in a low level rasterizing algo?+ 14:25:50 hmm 14:26:03 or as in a C function? 14:26:06 erm, 14:26:12 just the algorithm would do 14:26:14 ah 14:26:17 :) 14:26:20 well, it's very simple :P 14:26:21 the obvious way of doing it would be: 14:26:32 average of numbers? 14:26:33 :) 14:26:43 for every pixel, average the four neighbours with the colour 14:26:47 you can google for wu's algorithm 14:27:06 ah 14:27:07 well, if you want to draw a line and you know the background, here's what you can do 14:27:34 there are two basic cases for rasterizing a line; 14:27:50 --- join: witten_ (~witten@fire2.LINUX.UCLA.EDU) joined #osdev 14:27:52 one where there's a pixel every scanline, and one with one pixel on each column 14:28:11 i'll talk about one per column, for the other you just switch x and y 14:28:23 anyway, first you calculate the slope of the line (rise/run) 14:28:24 yep -- Breshenam (sp?) 14:28:31 no, not exactly 14:28:48 yah, then you can calculate a discriminator, ie, number of pixels in each scanline... 14:28:49 quite simple... 14:28:49 then you take your starting X, and you just add this slope to it each time 14:28:57 you round this value off, and there's your new X 14:29:09 you can also then use that decimal part as how dark you should draw the pixel 14:29:35 if it's very small, the color is closer to the background, if it's exactly on the pixel, you draw the forground color in full 14:30:00 you draw two pixels if it doesn't hit exactly 14:30:26 now, if you do this in asm, or some really fucked up C, you can encode the decimal in 0.32 fixed point and use the carry flag to do it really fast 14:30:36 heh :) 14:30:41 if you want a more portable C algo you are on your own :) 14:30:53 doing the same thing in C with floats would be horribly slow 14:31:21 and since i don't think there's any way to check the carry flag in C, you would have to manually figure out if it carried, which would be slow 14:31:35 so the decimal part of the step value becomes your alpha value? 14:31:42 yah 14:31:50 or is it, the decimal part of each new X co-ordinate? 14:31:52 you really only need the decimal part 14:31:58 when it overflows, you move up or down a pixel 14:32:32 well, all you need is the slope, which will always be less than 1 14:32:44 you put this in 0.32 fixed-point 14:32:51 then add/subtract that to 0 14:33:19 I found: http://www.sanctuary.org/~ashe/coding/aaline.html 14:33:22 the result tells you the alpha value for your pixel (and 1-the_value for the other pixel) 14:33:33 when it overflows, you move up/down one pixel 14:34:07 so you don't really even need to know the integer part 14:34:13 well, you do, but it's not in the same register 14:34:18 ok, take this ASCII line: 14:34:22 otherwise you wouldn't know where to draw the pixel :) 14:34:24 ^^^^----____ 14:34:34 four pixels per chunk 14:34:58 are the transparency values 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, 1.0, 0.25, ... ? 14:35:20 your slope is .25 14:35:26 --- quit: gab (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:35:31 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 14:35:42 so, 0, .75, .5, .25, (overflow here, move down a scanline) 0, .75... 14:35:50 yes 14:36:00 you draw two pixels unless it hits exactly on 0 14:36:06 grr 14:36:07 s/0/1 :P 14:36:22 the first one is totally opaque 14:36:30 draw two pixels where? above/below? 14:36:32 then 3/4 opaque, and 1/4 opaque below it 14:36:34 ya 14:36:44 the two pixel's alphas add to 1 14:36:47 right 14:36:52 otherwise your line looks dashed :) 14:36:59 I was about to say that just then :) 14:37:49 do you know any quick transparent blit techniques, other than dest = src * alpha + bg * (1-alpha) ? 14:38:00 I was thinking you could store the alpha channel as log2(alpha) and do it with shifts 14:38:11 if you didn't mind, say, 8 levels of transparency 14:38:35 i suppose 14:38:49 really a propperly pipelined multiply isn't too bad 14:38:54 heh... small icon of the result of Wu's algorithm: 14:38:55 http://www.sanctuary.org/~ashe/coding/ 14:38:56 2-5 cycles on an athlon 14:40:12 the one thing to be careful with when using my algo is that you may get rounding error 14:40:25 and if you do, the endpoint won't be at the right spon 14:40:26 spot 14:40:59 hmm 14:41:04 I may have to experiment with this 14:41:09 you can figure out how far you can go with a 32 bit register before you might get one off, i forget how far it was, but it wasn't too much of an issue 14:41:43 for my application speed was more of an issue than getting it on exactly the right pixel anyway :P 14:42:17 heh, I'll have to fix the damn FAT driver before I can load the thing 14:42:21 it's much faster than Breshanham's though, and looks better too, so it's all good :) 14:42:27 I found an annoying cluster-crossing bug this morning 14:42:28 eww 14:42:29 FAT blows 14:42:52 yes, but it's more convenient for debugging atm 14:43:02 i wrote an ext2 driver and a fat driver; for the same complexity you get a lot more performance with ext2 14:43:07 once the system is self-developing I may switch to something else 14:43:18 get a linux box :) 14:43:19 * pavlovskii isn't worried about performance yet 14:43:29 what are you working on? 14:43:33 Windows 2000 14:43:36 ueageuoh! 14:43:38 and proud of it :) 14:43:44 you are writing w2k? 14:43:47 :P 14:43:52 ah 14:44:03 I'm working on The Möbius, and doing so under Windows 2000 14:44:13 http://mobius.sourceforge.net/ 14:44:32 anyway, "Premature optimisation is the root of all evil" 14:44:43 I think that's the right quotation (Knuth) 14:45:12 pff 14:45:31 if you don't have time to do something right the first time, when will you have the time to do it again? 14:46:05 I hope I am doing this right the first time 14:46:18 obviously not 14:46:21 1) you are using FAT 14:46:27 2) your FAT driver has bugs 14:46:55 ext2 is really sweet, and quite simple 14:46:59 1) I don't intend to use FAT permanently; I reckon it's easier to get a FAT system running than something else 14:47:08 2) it has bugs because it's not finished yet 14:47:10 it's not :) 14:47:12 pff 14:47:19 well, i'm going to go play nethack 14:47:20 i have a mumak to kill... 14:47:30 if the mumak doesn't kill me... 14:47:37 make the mumak your pet 14:47:39 and I'm going home 14:47:42 bbl 14:47:56 --- part: pavlovskii left #osdev 14:48:30 A UNICORN! 14:48:39 dude!!! can i saddle a unicorn!? 14:48:46 do you have a saddle? 14:48:54 ja... 14:48:59 try it :) 14:49:02 but it looks unfriendly 14:49:05 and i have no food :( 14:49:10 shit... 14:49:17 i need a /WoW 14:49:24 wish for one :) 14:49:27 i need an apple and a scroll of genocide :) 14:49:38 tame the unicorn and geno the mumak 14:49:51 i think this is the end for me :( 14:51:07 dude! 14:51:11 what's a amulet of life saving do? 14:51:25 sounds like it could be helpfull :) 14:51:30 --- quit: Aardappel (Success) 14:51:37 if it's uncursed, then if you're wearing it when you die, you don't die 14:51:42 bitchin! 14:51:47 i suppose it goes away then? 14:52:06 yah 14:52:16 :( 14:52:16 * indigo puts it on 14:53:13 what's "wizard lock"? 14:53:19 i have a wizard lock spelbook... 14:53:54 dunno 14:54:04 lets you lock doors probably 14:55:53 heh 14:56:07 me, my pony, and my kitten are beating up on a rock piercer 14:57:59 darn...can't bring stormy into the store :P 14:58:49 now...to steal from a store with a pet, do i stand on the door, or on the square before it? 14:59:21 read a spoiler :) 14:59:29 --- join: osmaker (~Bersirc@evrtwa1-ar13-4-62-215-106.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 15:00:44 does anyone know the dd command to copy a bootsector to the first hd? 15:01:24 dd if=image of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 15:01:35 thx 15:02:09 heya 15:02:10 anyone know any good osdev sites? 15:02:22 like what kinda stuff? 15:02:22 http://osdev.redir.net 15:02:34 http://www.execpc.com/~geezer/johnfine/index.htm 15:02:44 http://www.execpc.com/~geezer/osd/index.htm 15:08:59 hrm 15:09:14 witten_: eihrul said your old slab allocator really sucked ;/ 15:09:28 --- nick: osmaker -> osmaker|workingi 15:09:39 --- nick: osmaker|workingi -> osmaker|working 15:10:29 nothing: 1) it's not a slab allocator, 2) it sucks only insofar as it's a very basic first-fit allocator just to get things off the ground 15:10:39 heh 15:10:41 it was written with the idea that it'd be replaced once I had a chance 15:10:50 no need to get defensive ;p 15:10:59 just want to make things clear :) 15:11:28 heh 15:12:49 his new allocator is pretty good. especially now that it's got comments :) 15:14:42 my philosophy is that most of my effort should go into the stuff that's going to be new/different/unique about the OS, e.g. the storage/persistence stuff. memory allocators are fairly boring in comparison, and while a good one is definitely necessary, it's not the main "selling point" 15:15:01 uh huh 15:18:47 see ya later 15:19:20 --- quit: corsairk8 ("- [ Quitting Server - Reason : None - Priority : High ] -") 15:33:41 --- nick: indigo -> indigo_fOOd 15:39:46 --- quit: rob_ert ("Strawberry fields forever.") 15:49:15 hmm... 15:49:32 in Linux is the first HD /dev/hd0 or /dev/hda ? 15:51:50 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 15:51:59 hi eks 15:52:03 hey 15:52:12 --- nick: eks -> eks[grocery] 15:57:35 zzz 16:01:38 --- join: HeavyJoost (HeavyJoost@1Cust162.tnt16.rtm1.nl.uu.net) joined #osdev 16:02:11 hi heavyjoost 16:02:25 hej 16:04:29 terve, HeavyJoost 16:05:11 ? 16:05:33 wtf is terve? 16:07:14 it's hello 16:07:16 in finnish 16:07:20 no f 16:08:11 aah 16:08:13 hallo 16:08:25 is dutch for hello :) 16:19:09 --- join: LaliDama (~pirch@1Cust80.tnt9.oklahoma-city.ok.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 16:28:18 --- part: witten_ left #osdev 16:32:01 --- part: osmaker|working left #osdev 16:36:40 HeavyJoost: you're dutch? 16:38:52 --- join: rushroad (~Simpleirc@200-41-33-52-tntteco1.dial-up.net.ar) joined #osdev 16:39:06 hello 16:39:33 h 16:39:54 Juu how are u? 16:40:52 k 16:40:55 3 am 16:40:56 zzz 16:40:59 soon 16:41:37 --- quit: rushroad (Client Quit) 16:43:43 --- join: notten (~notten@bgp423523bgs.union01.nj.comcast.net) joined #osdev 16:44:46 --- nick: eks[grocery] -> eks 16:46:31 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-188.awesome.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 16:46:52 anyone here? 16:46:59 yep 16:47:05 joo 16:47:16 hi then 16:47:20 :) 16:47:23 though zzz 16:47:26 soon 16:47:28 i said 2 hours ago 16:47:29 .P 16:47:31 grr 16:49:12 seesja 16:49:58 seizure 16:50:15 is USB better than PS/2? 16:50:33 --- quit: Juu ("i never know or remember what my quit message was") 16:50:41 yes, but a lot harder to program 16:50:47 with USB you can do this: 16:50:53 * pavlovskii unplugs mouse -- the cursor goes 16:51:00 * pavlovskii plugs it back in again 16:51:09 the cursor reappears 16:51:15 actually I didn't but you get the idea 16:51:22 you'd never tell anyway 16:53:33 Hel all 16:54:22 hah -- fixed my FAT driver bug 16:54:42 I wrote '-=' when I should have had '=' 16:55:13 is USB faster than PS/2? 16:55:42 yep 16:55:42 I wanna buy the Logitech Cordless Desktop iTouch 16:55:52 it's in both PS/2 and USB version 16:56:10 if possible, get one where you can use either 16:56:13 i've got a Logitech wheelmouse optical 16:56:18 a lot of operating systems don't support USB 16:56:23 it is USB 16:56:26 but I was thinking of buying a KVM Switch to share my comps 16:56:31 + a PS/2 adapter 16:56:34 e.g. this Microsoft Optical mouse I have here does both 16:56:50 woa... mega letter the peruvian congressman wrote to microsoft :PP 16:57:02 it's a long letter, but damn it's worth a read! 16:57:03 pav: most mouses and keyboards have a PS/2 to USB converter thingy with it, yes 16:57:29 but does a keyboard + mouse need more than a PS/2 connection? 16:57:35 is it really needed? 16:58:30 Rico: on the basis that virtually all motherboards have PS/2 ports, a PS/2 connection should be enough 16:58:42 but eventually they'll probably drop that in favour of more USB ports 16:59:14 USB is gay 16:59:45 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:03:24 --- join: Jeroen_ (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-170.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 17:03:43 --- quit: Jeroen (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: Jeroen_!jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-170.dial.kabelfoon.nl))) 17:03:47 --- nick: Jeroen_ -> Jeroen 17:04:34 hallo 17:07:19 --- quit: LaliDama (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:34:38 would it be a nice choice to buy a KVM Switch? it uses PS/2 and VGA. 17:35:36 Multile monitors and keyboards is better 17:35:41 i wish i had a pic of my desk 17:35:46 What was the profession of our man higgins? 17:35:50 i have 3 monitors, 3 keyboards, 2 mice 17:35:56 butler 17:36:11 and why is that better? 17:36:38 i dunno, it just looks cooler in my opinion 17:36:45 i have 2 old monitors and one pretty new one 17:36:47 multiple computers is better :) 17:36:58 multiple processors is pretty leet too 17:37:32 processor : 0 17:37:33 but I'm talking about a KVM switch here :) 17:37:33 processor : 1 17:37:36 ehhehe, 2 of em ;p 17:37:42 cpu MHz : 825.673 17:37:42 cpu MHz : 825.673 17:38:18 hrm 17:38:22 are those p3s? 17:39:11 yup0r 17:39:19 bogomips : 1648.23 17:39:19 bogomips : 1648.23 17:39:56 3300 Bogos 17:40:04 i can oc em to 915 17:40:07 it's pretty leet 17:40:42 I now have 2 monitors, 2 keyboards and 2 mouses. but I want to buy a new comp, change some parts of this comp with the new one. And buying a KVM switch is rather a lot cheaper. monitor of 300+ euro and a 1337 keyboard+mouse 100+ euro 17:43:43 notten: you do any SMP kernel development? 17:43:50 not yet ;p 17:44:02 all my kernel devel is done in vmware which doesn't do SMp 17:44:07 me neither 17:44:17 I've got a dual Pentium Pro board sitting right here 17:44:20 * nothing has an SMP machine =] 17:44:23 and i payed like 199 for a license 17:44:25 unfortunately, it's not sitting inside any kind of box 17:44:34 hehehe, you guys b0w 17:44:36 for vmware? 17:44:39 i have a dual 486 17:44:45 yeah, 199 for vm 17:44:48 * nothing has a dual ultrasparc 17:44:53 bastard ;p 17:45:00 dual 486! cool :) 17:45:10 yep, it's like the only one made i think 17:45:12 by vtec 17:45:16 i tried to devel on it 17:45:17 one time i saw a dual 386 motherboard, heh 17:45:20 the reason I'm not using this dual PPro board is that two of the capacitors have blown (literally -- right across the i8042) 17:45:21 but it's weird 17:45:21 at a computer faire 17:45:29 because the mobo has a riser for the 2nd chip 17:45:36 it's shorting when I turn the power on -- luckily the PSU trips 17:45:44 so it doesn't use the ili to communicate the initializing and shit 17:45:52 it uses some other communications 17:46:36 heh, by new caps at ratshack and sodder them on 17:47:25 yep, I will do one day (should be able to use the college lab for that) 17:47:43 I'll get round to it eventually 17:47:59 my friend popped 2 off his abit kt7a raid and i went over to his house and we popped em all off and ran really good wires from the leads to the capacitors, we glued them all togather, and hung em on a PSU venthole.. it was cool 17:49:08 I managed to squash a SCSI controller a while ago 17:49:19 in fact, 'the' SCSI controller (I only have one) 17:49:44 a speaker fell onto it from my monitor; the EEPROM pins got bent and a couple of surface-mount capacitor leads are broken 17:50:01 I'll probably give it to my dad to fix since I don't have the facilities here 17:50:21 how old are ya? 17:50:37 --- join: witten_ (~witten@fire2.LINUX.UCLA.EDU) joined #osdev 17:50:56 another question, what mobo do you prefer? abit, asus, msi, epox, intel? 17:51:04 ABIT!!!!! 17:51:08 ABIT > * 17:51:14 my dad doesn't know shit about comps 17:51:31 notten: and why abit? 17:51:32 notten: 21 as of Monday 6th 17:51:56 pavlovskii: i'm 16 and i haven't been letting my dad fix anything if i could do it first since i was 8 17:51:58 pav is an old bastard nowadays 17:52:06 Rico: because abit makes really nice boards 17:52:08 really really nice 17:52:08 heheh 17:52:12 good for overclocking too 17:52:18 nah, my dad is a 1337 electronic engineer 17:52:18 pav: what type of mobo do you prefer? 17:52:27 hmm, dunno really 17:52:39 I don't overclock anyways 17:52:40 SuperMicro have never given me any problems 17:52:43 Rico: the abit bios has sooo many options it's like amazing 17:52:48 the only good PC motherboards are made by Tyan and Asus 17:52:59 it has to WORK, that's what I care about 17:53:16 I'm using an ECS one now -- I broke the heatsink mount on the first one and my CPU would overheat :) 17:53:28 Rico: right :) 17:54:11 I'll stay with Asus 17:54:24 Rico: I have an ABit VP6 Dual P3 board and it's awsome!!! i had it running w/o a case and i stepped on it and shit and i must've dropped metal on it and made cool sparks like a million times and it still runs great! 17:54:46 --- quit: witten_ ("bye") 17:55:42 notten: it will take alot from Abit to get me back (after the major problems I had with my KA7), I'm quite satisfied and recommending the Asus 17:55:43 first of all, I'm not gonna test with the same way you do :) 17:56:00 mine will stay in it's case almost all of the time and just SIT there :) 17:56:28 Rico: well this board is madd stable 17:56:44 I've had it running for 4 months straight once.. i used to run an irc server 17:56:56 notten: maybe this particular board, but many other boards from Abit are far from stable 17:57:09 yeah 17:57:16 well, this is the greatest mp board i've seen so far ;p 17:57:18 but we know that abit isn't a bad one, that's for sure 17:57:37 and what do people prefer? intel or amd? 17:57:43 pavlovskii: you read the letter from the Peruvian congressman? 17:57:45 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-1250.barrelled.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 17:57:48 pavlovskii: you read the letter from the Peruvian congressman? 17:57:54 the P4 is much more expensive :( 17:58:00 <_avlovskii> eks: no, where is it? 17:58:09 --- quit: pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 17:58:17 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 17:58:17 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25157.html 17:58:25 worth a read, really really worth a read 17:58:36 bah 17:58:38 hell, I read it all, twice :P 17:58:39 lame article ;p 17:58:54 nothing: my ass!! it's the best article I've read about OSS 17:58:57 eks: maybe you know more about it, a KVM switch. you ever used one? 17:59:13 Rico: I only used mechanical ones 17:59:17 why does the American congress have a Peruvian congressman? 17:59:49 pavlovskii: the guy is in the Peruvian Congress... he is in Peru... 18:00:01 yep, I got it just then :) 18:00:17 ehhe 18:00:29 anybody who haven't read it... please... for the love of open source.. read it 18:00:38 it's a _major_ leap in politic 18:00:53 i find that kind of frightening actually 18:00:59 the opensource movement is being accepted 18:01:01 ugh 18:01:11 OS was best when it was underground 18:01:16 why frightening? you prefer closed MS sources? 18:01:59 I prefer good sources 18:02:02 YES!!! 18:02:15 most closed source -> driven by the market 18:02:28 most open source -> driven by whoever can be arsed debugging the code today 18:02:34 yeah 18:02:34 * eks thinks the article is definately worth a read 18:02:39 i already read it, eks 18:02:40 hehe 18:02:44 it's not that great 18:02:52 nothing: pfff 18:02:58 nothing: you read it all? 18:03:04 yes 18:03:13 I can't see how you say it's not that great 18:03:27 i really don't care about opensource taking over the world 18:04:27 nothing: and you are the one bitching that I don't use an open source os? tstst 18:04:53 however, I do disagree with monopolies 18:05:08 if we had, say, 5 different OS manufacturers then I'd be happy 18:05:19 regardless of whether they shared their source code 18:05:45 bah, I'm too tired to read it right now 18:05:45 it help a lot if they would be compatible with eachother 18:06:01 eks: i'm not bitching because it's closed-source, i just don't like QNX 18:06:31 everything about QNX annoys me, from its focus on embedded applications, to its blatant MS windows GUI ripoff 18:06:40 and its microkernel design 18:06:44 i *hate* microkernels 18:06:47 they're halfsteps 18:06:52 eheh 18:06:58 be either on one side or the other 18:07:02 nothing: so you prefer nexwave-solutions? 18:07:03 ;) 18:07:36 I rock! I'm now able to render a metafile into an in-memory buffer and blit it across the screen :) 18:07:50 i like opensource, but i hate the "take over the world" mentality of the GNU/GPL zealots 18:07:52 pavlovskii: great :) 18:07:53 i especially hate GPL 18:07:55 and RMS 18:07:57 HATE them 18:08:14 hate in what way? 18:08:18 would you kill him? 18:08:20 heh 18:08:24 right, I mean what is the point of the GPL? 18:08:30 to take away your right to close the source? 18:08:49 please note guys that I'm not a promoter of the GPL myself, I rather use BSD or X11 18:08:51 in some ways, they can be just as oppressive in their quest for "freedom" as their closed-source enemies 18:08:57 it gives the public more rights at the expense of the developer 18:09:14 eks: me too -- I prefer the "copycenter" model for open source 18:09:25 "take it to the copy centre and make as many copies as you want" 18:09:32 I think hating somebody becuase of his political opinion is wrong 18:09:46 you get things like what's happening here in the Netherlands 18:09:56 excuse me, does anyone know what's exo-kernel? 18:10:04 Delphinus: yip 18:10:19 eks what's that? 18:10:19 what if this person gets some power, and retains his unpopular political opinions? 18:10:30 what happens then? do you still not hate him? 18:10:40 which person? 18:10:52 any person 18:10:56 Delphinus: move all kernel services into os libraries, making them swapable, able to share a system so to have multiple concurrent "OSes" if you want 18:11:03 as an analogy, look at Jean-Marie LePen 18:11:15 Have you heard what happened in the Netherlands today? 18:11:19 eks: the "kernel" is basically just sharing the hardware between those libs, and the libs are implementing various "kernel" features 18:11:29 * eks wonders what's up with him addressing himself.. 18:11:30 he is widely condemned, at least by the British media, because of the effect his political opinions would have if he got into power in France 18:11:33 Jeroen: no 18:11:36 www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/05/06/fortuyn.shooting/index.html 18:11:39 Where you guys live? 18:11:41 * pavlovskii will check The Times 18:11:53 London 18:12:13 Jeroen: Winnipeg, Canada 18:12:14 You never read/listen/watch news? 18:12:29 yes, I read the Times website every morning 18:12:36 Oh, okay :) 18:12:39 anyway 18:12:46 * eks reads osopinion.com and osnews.com daily ;) 18:12:47 I ought to buy the full paper and read it, but I'm too lazy :) 18:12:52 morning, this happened this evening :) 18:12:56 heh, osnews.com is cool 18:13:04 osopinion.com is too opinionated ;) 18:13:05 what happened today is much worse than the WTC attack IMHO 18:13:13 Jeroen: ah, I see 18:13:16 this is significant 18:13:29 * pavlovskii recalls the left/right wing division of Europe in the 1930s 18:13:39 eks so only user/kernel swith when uses the hardward or swith to anyther task? 18:13:48 the front page of thetimes.co.uk makes depressing reading 18:13:53 "Gunman kills right-wing leader" 18:14:02 "40,000 British Jews rally to side of Israel" 18:14:17 ah: "Police recover stolen hospital baby" :) 18:14:42 Delphinus: that's the general idea, but even some drivers can be implemented libs, i.e.: usb devices. Only the USB controller code is in the kernel, everything else can be shared between os libraries 18:15:08 I will NEVER be a politician! 18:15:24 he wans't xenophobic 18:15:29 eks any website? 18:15:47 Delphinus: gimme a sec 18:15:49 he wasn't that right 18:15:59 the media made him that 18:16:47 http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo.html 18:17:02 Jeroen: "Islam, he said, was a “backward culture”. " 18:17:04 eks thanks. :-) 18:17:31 hmm 18:17:33 it semms lots of people try to develop a microkernel. 18:17:45 but most of project stoped now. :-Q 18:18:02 imho pure microkernels don't work 18:18:13 hrm hrm 18:18:19 eks, you should start a new OS project 18:18:23 an exokernel 18:18:25 pretty much any supposed microkernel design ends up as a compromise, for the sake of speed 18:18:40 nothing: why? 18:18:48 pavlovskii: religion in general is backwards today 18:18:49 eks: it'd be a fun thing, give you something to do ;/ 18:18:52 pavlovskii right. 18:18:54 pavlovskii: yes, that's his opinion, islamitic people say gay people are NO people! 18:19:09 nothing: I got enough to do already... barely got time to eat my cereals in the morning.. 18:19:13 and he was gay... 18:19:43 do you think is so strange that he says the islam is a backwards culture? 18:19:45 so far, only QNX is a real microkernel. 18:19:54 Jeroen: no 18:20:01 The Hurd too 18:20:46 Hurd is a big singal kernel. 18:21:12 --- topic: set to 'Operating System DEVelopment || osdev docs: qzx.com/lib || www.osdev || osdev people: qzx.com/osdev || http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/PDOS-papers.html' by ChanServ 18:21:38 that culture say that he was no people 18:21:39 here, in the Netherlands, homosexuals are accepted 18:21:39 for instance, they can even marry with each other 18:21:39 so, if you look from your country, the islamic culture is backwards 18:21:39 but of course, the media quote him wrong, like they do always 18:21:40 the Hurd isn't a kernel 18:23:07 pavlovskii: if you say bad things about homesexuals here in the Netherlands you get treated as a closed-mind fool 18:23:16 closed-minded 18:23:37 but it's sad that people as Fortuyn can't tell their opinion 18:23:41 sad, very sad 18:24:16 hmm, I agree with you Jeroen 18:25:02 he was revolutionary here in holland 18:25:46 he was the one who said the things most people think 18:26:04 Yes, saying that islam is a backwards culture is politically not correct 18:26:10 but it is what a lot of people think 18:26:11 At your service! 18:26:39 And you know, I don't even agree with Fortuyn, but see a lot more about how he thought now 18:27:02 I'm politically left, Fortuyn was right 18:27:03 who are you gonna vote? 18:27:11 I right 18:27:14 Nobody 18:27:16 i'm right 18:27:18 I'm 16 years old 18:27:19 :-) 18:27:24 jeroen: whahaha! 18:27:37 I was gonna vote on either LPF or VVD 18:27:39 they consider me too stupid to vote 18:27:45 you are! 18:27:50 I think LPF will be a good one 18:28:13 I think I would vote for groenlinks or LPF 18:29:07 I'd not vote for groenlinks, that one didn't get any points at all with an online test :) 18:29:49 anyways 18:30:01 I need a new comp, so I can use the current one for linux 18:30:11 damn... one pixel out of place 18:30:25 pavlovskii: whahaha!! 18:31:02 I like the FSF and I think a bit like RMS 18:31:25 I don't think GL would be too far away from what I think :) 18:32:21 at what age can you vote in the Netherlands? 18:32:34 18 18:40:40 tonight I can conclude: 18:40:50 1) my hard disk driver bug was trivial 18:41:19 2) my WMF renderer is of lower quality than a combination of Paint Shop Pro's WMF renderer and antialiasing downsampler 18:41:35 3) politics is fsck'd big-style 18:41:39 good night all 18:41:52 pavlovskii night 18:42:56 --- part: pavlovskii left #osdev 18:50:13 yay, I'm gonna buy a 4 ports switchview: http://www.cybex.com/Cybex/PublicW2.nsf/52b9f40c0ed87d1086256a3a006aa431/a10f3e11400690f686256a3b006c56d7?OpenDocument 18:50:47 KVMs are lame 18:51:03 Rico: looks like a good one at least :) 18:51:34 nothing: I do appreciate them at work, I don't have place on my workdesk for 6 keyboards, 6 monitors and 6 mice 18:51:56 I don't mind having only one of each with a little black box 18:52:03 why are you using 6 computers? :p 18:52:23 nothing: I maintain 4 unix servers, use one workstation and the 6th one is various pc for maintenance 18:52:34 why don't you admin the unix servers via ssh? 18:52:53 why would I use ssh when I can press a button and be right there? 18:53:47 what kind of windowing system do those unix servers use? 18:54:12 two of them run KDE on top of Trustix Linux 18:54:24 the two others are bash shells 18:54:37 i'm sure you need all those KDE bells and whistles to administer them ;p 18:54:42 my own machine is a qnx/windows box 18:55:05 nothing: not really no, those computers were setup before I was there, I rather have ion or at least blackbox on them 18:55:15 eks: so you are familiar with KVM switches (you said mechanical one), but how's the quality? 18:55:18 whatever, this is a pointless argument ;p 18:56:03 Rico: mechanical switches are very shitty for that,they cut out the current from your devices everytime you switch from one to another. So you need to reconfigure your keyboard repeat rate and re-enable your mouse everytime you switch 18:56:17 the quality couldn't be better since it's a direct wire though 18:56:36 I've seen electronic ones that can remember the keyboard/mouse settings and reconfigure the devices everytime you switch, those are damn nice 18:56:49 well, the max screen res of this switch is 1600x1200 at 75Hz 18:57:04 which doesn't seem that bad to my standards ;) 18:57:06 I run 1600x1200 at 70 or 72 Hz (my monitor's max) 18:57:26 does the bit depth matter? 18:57:28 --- quit: HeavyJoost ("It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum... | become a member of Anti-Microsoft: www.heavyjoost.tk ;)") 18:57:52 1280x1024 @ 85hz > * :) 18:58:05 unless you have an lcd, then the refresh is wahtever the lcd uses 18:58:14 1024x768 @ 60 Hz ... on a Super TFT >:} 18:58:24 I just talked to someone who also had a KVM switch, he didn't like it, it crapped out with him 18:59:18 when I'm gonna buy this one, I want it to be a good choice and that it will last long enough 18:59:29 Rico: they are nice if they work well, some models are shit others are awesome 18:59:59 Sun KVMs are nice 19:00:13 nothing: and expensive ;) 19:00:21 I doubt sun kvm's are pc compatible... 19:00:43 nothing: probably still cost less than buying 4 of their monitors though... 19:01:05 eks: well, I'll take the chance, like I said, a KVM set is much more expensive 19:01:56 Rico: I think I've seen that model in action before, can't remember the user saying anything bad about it 19:03:14 I hope so, it's the only popular one I found on the dutch online stores 19:03:51 also available in my favorite store, they sell good quality and have very good service. so I expect the same 19:03:59 ...for this product 19:09:21 it also is a rather expensive one, compared to most other ones 19:12:39 is there any way to convert a powerpoint file to something i can read in UNIX? 19:13:00 run windows under bochs :) 19:13:24 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2022525572 19:14:01 nothing: install Open Office and read your file directly :p 19:14:11 Open Office eh 19:14:16 is that freeware? 19:15:08 nothing: it's open source, free 19:23:23 open stands for closed software >:) 19:23:45 ?? 19:24:51 open stands for non-free software 19:24:54 that makes more sense 19:25:25 closed source, non-free software, yay! 19:25:52 I think the Cybex KVM Switchview would be a good choice 19:26:23 better than all those cheap ass stupid KVM switches 19:26:48 but I gtg to bed 19:26:53 too late already! 19:26:57 yeah maybe 19:26:58 4:20 am!!! 19:27:05 anyhow 19:27:35 bye all 19:27:36 bye 19:28:44 good night 19:33:06 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 19:33:22 HI all 19:36:18 hi jaced 19:38:59 D? 19:39:14 From where does the d comes from? 19:39:52 it sounds nicer than jace48 19:42:08 So why not simply jace 19:55:27 --- quit: nbsp () 19:57:39 --- join: indigo (~daboy@lnk2-bfrost-gw.binary.net) joined #osdev 19:57:41 :( 20:01:31 hi daboy 20:01:44 how's tauga? 20:03:22 *slide*slide*slide* 20:03:28 i'm back! 20:05:40 wb 20:08:13 thx 20:08:20 well 20:08:29 * indigo isn't working on tauga now 20:08:34 i'm tring to get my laptop to work 20:08:52 it's an old mac, with an rs-422 port on it 20:09:01 indigo-> what's tauga? 20:09:26 i found an old rs-422 ISA card, and it works, but just as crappy as the rs-232 20:09:32 jace48: my little pet project 20:09:43 i can't download shit 20:09:46 --- join: zephir (~zephir@harr-c-165.resnet.purdue.edu) joined #osdev 20:09:48 hey 20:09:49 irc works, that's about it 20:10:05 anyone know how to do os dev stuff in windows properly? 20:11:17 anyoen? 20:11:33 zephir-> like what? 20:12:12 basically i want to everything in windows 20:12:23 tired of rebooting and cross-platform issues 20:12:28 got bochs on windows 20:12:46 need like a good set of compiler/linker close to the gcc ones 20:12:47 etc 20:13:04 Cygwin 20:13:12 I use it 20:13:17 It's cool 20:13:33 ah 20:13:41 but the setup way too much junk default 20:14:15 You can download and install indiviaul package 20:14:22 And then run setup 20:14:26 ah 20:14:33 so which ones would i need for os dev 20:15:08 GCC, LD and other text processing 20:15:22 You can also consider DJGPP 20:15:33 GCC for DOS 20:15:56 True 32 bit on nonse approach 20:16:08 *no nonsense 20:16:25 is it good? 20:16:31 and it produces elf output right? 20:17:01 ELF, PE i386 20:17:28 I am using Cygwin for OS develop 20:17:28 k 20:17:44 It based on PE file format 20:18:15 --- quit: indigo ("bbl") 20:19:02 hmm 20:19:05 i need elf 20:19:10 Goahead 20:19:13 i guess i will have to try out djgpp 20:19:16 All yours 20:19:47 :) 20:25:14 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust164.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 20:30:48 --- quit: zephir ("Client Exiting") 20:34:18 --- quit: eks ("Zzzz") 20:37:21 --- quit: jace48 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:00:55 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 21:01:03 --- quit: indigo_fOOd ("guess i'm not eating anymore...") 21:01:14 Ah back 21:01:18 Hi al 21:01:20 *all 21:05:42 --- quit: witten (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:05:48 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-210-121.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 21:12:12 --- join: Darkvise9 (~Darkvise@sdn-ar-006watacoP326.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 21:15:09 --- join: witten_ (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-210-121.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 21:17:13 --- quit: Darkvise9 ("Client Exiting") 21:31:17 --- quit: witten (Read error: 111 (Connection refused)) 21:50:57 --- quit: I440r (": sleep bed go tuck light off ; immediate") 22:10:06 bbl 22:10:09 --- quit: jace48 ("Heck y this happens to me?") 22:17:24 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 22:34:19 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 22:35:00 --- join: tirloni (tirloni@1-024.mganm700-1.telepar.net.br) joined #osdev 22:59:07 --- quit: jace48 ("Heck y this happens to me?") 23:00:06 --- join: LaliDama (~pirch@1Cust50.tnt16.dfw3.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 23:07:21 --- nick: witten_ -> witten 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.05.06