00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.05.25 00:04:12 --- join: osmaker (~Bersirc@evrtwa1-ar13-4-62-065-133.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 00:40:34 --- join: mrd_ (skdjfjksjd@pcp201472pcs.uprtnw01.nj.comcast.net) joined #osdev 00:41:33 --- join: lynxzZZzzzz (~lynx@p50809301.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 00:56:03 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 00:58:50 --- quit: osmaker (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:47:29 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-210-121.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 02:06:25 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:34:02 --- quit: cchung (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:38:58 --- join: cchung (~peter@61-217-220-211.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #osdev 02:59:22 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 03:17:28 --- join: dax (you@u212-239-163-103.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 03:17:33 hmm 03:17:40 daxos si nice. 03:17:43 :) 03:17:53 worked a bit on it 03:17:53 is it? 03:17:59 :P 03:18:11 now i have a basic memory manager working 03:18:15 and basic multithreading 03:18:20 cool beans 03:18:23 in a 8kb kernel :) 03:35:46 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:54:29 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:05:10 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 04:21:37 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 04:21:42 Hey eks 04:22:05 hey rob_ert 04:34:23 hey me 04:34:29 :( 04:35:16 --- nick: oink_ -> oink 04:42:15 hello oink 04:42:26 hey :) 04:43:16 Be welcomed, Sir Oink of Oinkland! 04:45:09 Hey, Thanks Mrs Roberta for Fluffyworld! 04:46:56 :D 04:59:56 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 05:23:58 --- quit: mrd (Remote closed the connection) 05:27:56 * eks wonders where his realtime kernel code went... 05:29:35 :(( 05:29:52 Heh.. 05:30:17 I had a complete realtime scheduler.... 05:30:21 :~( 05:30:57 lynxzZZzzzz: you there babe? 05:31:23 shhh... don't disturb a sleeping bear! 05:31:38 * eks tickles lynx 05:32:33 You're playing with death. 05:32:41 Don't push it, my friend. 05:32:53 (And for god's sake - don't cheat) 05:33:45 O_o 05:34:21 --- join: hi_123456 (abdef@vnd-6789.adsl.wanadoo.nl) joined #osdev 05:35:11 Hoi. 05:35:40 ø_Ø 05:36:34 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 05:36:38 sf.net changed look.... 05:36:42 Yeah. 05:37:01 Took me one minute to find the software map ;) 05:37:48 --- join: Pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-330.aerodactyl.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 05:37:59 Hey Pavlovskii. 05:37:59 hi all 05:38:05 * eks wants his realtime scheduler code.... 05:38:10 eks: would you agree the new Sourceforge look sucks badly? 05:38:14 Hmm... octal numbers in C start with a zero, right? 05:38:20 rob_ert: right 05:38:32 And NASM? 05:38:32 hence 0 itself is octal 05:38:41 don't know about Nasm 05:38:45 Bah ;) 05:38:53 * rob_ert goes to RTFM 05:39:35 Hmm 05:39:40 123q <-- octal. 05:40:38 Pavlovskii: yes, I agree 05:41:06 it's taken me a while to find all the old stuff, and it's a lot less clear 05:41:28 the whole page jumbles into one (except for the banner ad, which is prominently displayed on a huge black strip at the top) 05:42:33 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:54:35 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.78) joined #osdev 05:59:35 --- quit: hi_123456 () 06:13:59 --- nick: lynxzZZzzzz -> lynx_wakin_up_mo 06:14:13 --- nick: lynx_wakin_up_mo -> lynx_wakinupmode 06:14:19 --- join: hi_123456 (abdef@vnd-6789.adsl.wanadoo.nl) joined #osdev 06:26:38 --- part: hi_123456 left #osdev 06:30:03 --- join: lodda (lodda@p508FD107.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:30:23 Hi. 06:30:28 hi 06:31:13 --- nick: lynx_wakinupmode -> lynx 06:32:51 Hey lynx. 06:32:59 hey 06:39:12 hey anyone out there can help me to code an OS? 06:39:24 --- join: alfie^ (~alfie@c16757.sunsh2.vic.optusnet.com.au) joined #osdev 06:39:25 morning 06:39:30 mourning 06:39:32 Hey mate 06:39:48 fuck! this channel is alive for once :) 06:40:03 what is new? 06:40:03 Hehe 06:40:07 No it's not :) 06:40:13 We're only greeting bots. 06:40:22 hehe 06:40:45 is that Alfie John? 06:41:28 yeah 06:41:34 altosdev huh :) 06:41:49 ohh, i see 06:41:52 tim rob :) 06:42:01 hi :) 06:42:07 hey 06:42:14 * eks waves 06:42:37 i finally see that some of alt.os.dev finally agreed to be on irc :) 06:42:41 hey eks 06:43:07 lodda: about everyone here is working on an os of some kind...we can help you on specific issues, but joining up a new team require some more informaiton ;) 06:43:14 hmm, I'm on and off occasionally 06:43:27 I'm not doing any OS dev atm because I'm working on my project 06:43:47 hehe 06:43:56 yeah same here, i have exams coming up soon 06:44:02 pretty damn soon :( 06:46:26 anyone know French here? 06:46:40 co mon ti pel tu? 06:46:40 how much french ? 06:46:42 that is all i know 06:46:56 do you know what 'souci' means in English? 06:47:07 google it! :) 06:47:14 babel it 06:47:23 yeah 06:47:31 i think it means sorrow or something 06:47:44 you know the castel sans souce in germany? 06:47:46 here's the phrase: "chaque jour j'ai un nouveau souci" 06:48:02 no 06:48:09 someone speaking 06:48:23 maybe it means "each day i feel down" 06:48:26 Babelfish says "concern" 06:48:26 each day I have a new concern 06:48:41 it's from the French section of http://www.explodingdog.com/ 06:48:45 a very strange site 06:48:49 i dont think he/she/it would use niveau 06:48:52 ask eks ... 06:49:20 eks : .translate fre eng chaque jour j`ai un niveau souci 06:49:52 lynx: nouveau, not niveau 06:50:11 oh 06:50:14 durmn 06:50:16 bah 06:50:19 toucheeeeeeee 06:51:33 Pavlovskii : maybe it means "each day i have a new complain" ? 06:51:38 or problem ... 06:51:56 I think that sound right 06:51:59 sounds 06:53:16 what the hell is that site? 06:53:23 man, that is wierd :) 06:54:01 *shrug* 06:54:53 hrm 06:59:07 --- quit: eks ("stupid bochs") 07:00:24 --- quit: alfie^ ("stupid windows... never shuts down properly, so it leaves a cold draft") 07:00:30 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 07:01:46 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 07:04:56 --- quit: eks (Client Quit) 07:06:39 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 07:14:28 Do only the boot-sector in asm? 07:14:54 ..have to be in asm? 07:17:13 has to be in asm 07:17:28 because it is lowend... yoiu can`t do that in c 07:19:57 i know 07:20:32 but what is with other things? 07:20:50 my english is bad iknow 07:21:02 i´m a german 07:21:21 als ob das eine ausrede waere... 07:21:37 Hehe 07:21:47 It sure is. 07:21:55 lol 07:21:55 All german speak horrible english :D 07:22:01 das wissen wir alle! 07:22:09 rob_ert : what about the horrible swedes ? 07:22:16 (And all swedes speak horrible german) 07:22:30 :D 07:22:33 mein deutsche ist scheisse :) 07:22:40 deutshc 07:22:42 sdkjfklsjdf 07:22:43 deutsch 07:22:48 Pavlovskii =) 07:23:21 milos? 07:23:31 lodda : wut is milos? 07:23:37 i´m not the only one *g* 07:23:51 Doesn't have to be in asm 07:23:56 I made a bootsector in C--. 07:24:10 (But it's almost asm :) 07:24:33 C-- is a mischung aus C and asm 07:24:33 well 07:24:40 ja 07:24:42 ja 07:24:51 look for c--final.zip 07:25:03 milos is a os of a german one 07:25:13 Hehe 07:25:16 lodda : any url ? 07:25:22 How old are you, lodda? 07:25:26 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-170.abra.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 07:25:33 www.bettendorf-germany.de 07:25:33 wb _avlovskii 07:25:36 --- quit: Pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 07:25:43 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 07:25:53 in a english and a german version 07:26:11 lodda : heh lustige url 07:26:31 it is a little os 07:26:46 real-mode at the moment 07:27:06 anyway 07:27:09 i get 404 07:27:20 i like it because it was the only good german page 07:27:27 Hehe 07:27:31 Learn english instead :D 07:27:34 --- join: alphakiller (PolarisOne@200191154191-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br) joined #osdev 07:27:37 Wie alt bist du? 07:27:45 13 07:27:54 Hehe 07:27:55 heh 07:27:55 I see. 07:27:58 sehr jung ich weiss 07:28:03 ja 07:28:10 ich bin 'nur' 16 07:28:11 mit 13 konnte ich noch kein english sprechen 07:28:19 ich konnte :D 07:28:32 ich muss es in der schule lernen 07:28:40 ja 07:28:46 ich habe mit latein angefangen 07:28:48 ich auch... 07:28:50 ugh 07:28:55 so hae ich es erst in der 7. klasse bekommen 07:28:55 hey der der milos macht is 17 glaub ich 07:29:05 heh 07:29:07 welche sprachen kannst du, lynx? 07:29:25 hm..latein konnte man erst in 7 wählen 07:29:26 rob_ert : du meinst , welche ich koennen sollte? 07:29:29 hab ich auch 07:29:33 lynx: ;D 07:29:34 lynx: ja 07:29:48 rob_ert : latein, franzoesisch , englisch , deutsch 07:29:54 oh... 07:30:04 nicht schwedisch?! 07:30:06 :( 07:30:12 har har 07:30:13 nein. 07:30:18 das ist mir zu billig :P 07:30:18 awww :( 07:30:21 pff 07:30:37 muhahaha 07:30:45 schweden will bald das einzige land sein! 07:30:48 rob_ert : you could teach me swedish 07:30:54 Hehe 07:31:00 And you could teach me german ;D 07:31:02 rob_ert: write a Swedish tutorial :) 07:31:05 heh 07:31:06 Heh, nah 07:31:15 tjena , jag är niklas 07:31:15 I can speak in swedish here ;) 07:31:26 lynx: is deutsch deine muttersprache? 07:31:32 use "heter" there instead 07:31:33 lodda : ja 07:31:39 cool 07:31:41 lodda : wo kommst du her? 07:31:44 * rob_ert kommst aus schweden. 07:31:56 xD 07:31:57 deutschland,nrw,ruhrgebiet 07:32:05 tjena , jag heter niklas ; har heter tu ? 07:32:10 hag 07:32:10 pffff 07:32:20 "tjena, jag heter niklas, vad heter du?" 07:32:29 oh 07:32:30 mkay 07:32:36 vad heter du ? 07:32:40 das klingt aber wie ein 3-jährige kind! 07:32:44 Robert =D 07:32:48 +s 07:32:52 :D 07:32:57 das klingt aber wie ein 3-jähriges kind! 07:33:02 und? 07:33:07 was soll ich dagegen tun? 07:33:10 hmm 07:33:26 "Jag heter Niklas, och du?" 07:33:52 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust66.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 07:33:57 * rob_ert the wannabe-german-speaker leaves for a while. 07:34:08 lodda : hrm... ich kenne jemanden ok 07:34:12 argh 07:34:26 lodda : hrm... ich kenne jemanden der hat mit 13 ein komplettes os mit gui geschrieben 07:34:52 jag heter niklas , och du? 07:35:30 jag heter Tim 07:35:32 lynx:wie??? 07:35:42 lodda ? in c 07:36:05 lodda : keine ahnung , er ist halt ziemlich intelligent 07:36:09 hm 07:36:10 pavlovskii =D 07:36:17 lynx: da muss ich mich aber sehr beeilen werd nämlich in 1 1/2 wochen 15 07:36:19 lynx: Also with filesystem? 07:36:26 *mit 07:36:31 rob_ert : ja 07:36:34 lodda: Weren't you 13? 07:36:42 lynx: 3l33t. 07:36:48 ja 07:36:57 it wasn`t that bad 07:37:01 well 07:37:05 it was quite good :/ 07:37:10 Hehe 07:37:15 Better than you can do :D 07:37:18 * lynx hates all the little superintelligent kids... 07:37:25 Haha, gut. :D 07:37:26 rob_ert : ja 07:37:31 rob_ert : like you ;) 07:37:35 Bleh 07:37:39 I'm not even intelligent 07:37:48 probably not 07:37:51 lynx: das is aber echt unfair 07:37:59 lodda : klar 07:37:59 :) 07:38:09 lodda : in wirklichkeit ist es mein blanker neid ;) 07:38:28 lodda: First you said you're 13, and then your 15th birthday is in 1 1/2 week? 07:38:46 no my 14th birthday!!! 07:38:50 Bah 07:38:54 lynx: da muss ich mich aber sehr beeilen werd nämlich in 1 1/2 wochen 15 07:38:55 :) 07:39:07 achso vertippt 07:39:17 tschuldigung 07:39:20 :) 07:39:29 You're forgiven ;) 07:39:38 rob_ert : heh 07:40:26 lynx: ? 07:40:31 ok 07:40:36 i am still eating... 07:40:37 :-( 07:40:38 Okay 07:40:41 Have phun! 07:40:45 lynx: wer hat das OS mit gui geschrieben? 07:40:48 * lynx will grow fat 07:40:52 lynx: :))) 07:40:57 lodda mutaz harq 07:41:03 lodda : aka cefarix 07:41:07 Err 07:41:08 hä? 07:41:16 rob_ert : i know you would enjoy it =) 07:41:21 cefarix? Isn't he that lamer who used to hang around here? 07:41:30 rob_ert : yep 07:41:34 rob_ert : but he is no lamer 07:41:43 cefarix super-intelligent? Heh... 07:41:48 well 07:41:58 he is still a child but he coded that stuff *shrug* 07:42:01 When he submitted code to UUU, they laughed at him 07:42:11 yeah 07:42:23 And told me his code was useless, and that be barley could code. 07:42:31 lynx: hat der ne homepage? 07:42:34 rob_ert : but ha has still that os ... i was on his site yesterday .. he hasnt worked on it for a year 07:42:47 lodda : ja , die ist im osdev.org ring , afaik 07:43:00 rob_ert : *SHRUG* 07:43:06 I still have a hard time to beleive everything is right here... 07:43:19 rob_ert : you are too naive ;) 07:43:24 Bleh 07:43:30 I'm sure you're kidding. 07:43:34 no 07:43:38 about cefarix os , no 07:43:40 I bet his OS is like yours . 07:43:41 ;D 07:43:47 rob_ert : bleh 07:43:56 food, brb 07:44:42 ihr seid nich besonders nett zueinander 07:45:02 lodda : doch 07:45:08 lodda : das ist nur s eine art hassliebe 07:45:12 so 07:45:30 aha hassliebe 07:45:50 was macht ihr denn fuer OSse 07:46:12 i´m not sure about the plural of OS 07:46:25 in english oses 07:46:27 OSes 07:46:32 I like "OSen" 07:46:35 but in german .. hrm... 07:46:41 pavlovskii lol 07:47:12 "OSoj" -- I think that's Esperanto (?) 07:47:51 hrm 07:47:58 why not just osj ? 07:48:02 okay OSes 07:48:19 why not OSfhieohfsdofhskl? 07:48:28 die site von cefarix geht nich 07:48:30 I just made my TTY driver ultra-fast 07:48:37 unfortunately it is a little unstable 07:48:39 lodda : keine ahnung , war gestern drauf 07:48:42 i.e. it reboots :) 07:48:47 LOL 07:49:00 pavlovskii : how does your tty driver work? 07:49:13 pavlovskii : do you use the RTC for sleep functions ? 07:49:38 http://cefarix.dhs.org/ ? 07:49:50 lynx: I use the scheduler for millisecond resolution, RTC for usec 07:50:00 before, I had 6 tty's, spanning the B8000 block 07:50:07 switching was a matter of programming the VGA card 07:50:19 what OSes are you coding? 07:50:25 now I'm doing it the Linux way: scrolling the display when needed, and memcpy for tty switching 07:50:30 lodda: http://mobius.sf.net/ 07:50:41 ahso 07:50:47 lynx: it's a lot faster, but I haven't put in a check for the end of memory :) 07:50:49 so it reboots 07:51:21 ah 07:51:22 ok 07:51:29 that isnt difficult 07:51:44 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81673.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 07:52:30 no 07:53:37 although it makes me think that the only thing this speeds up is when you have hundreds of lines of text flying past 07:53:52 and that's not a good thing -- that's the kind of thing Linux has 07:53:53 was ist die url von cefarix *terrormach*??????????? 07:54:05 KEINE AHNUNG 07:54:10 hab ich vergessen 07:54:12 lodda: ich habe http://cefarix.sf.net/ 07:54:30 Danke 07:54:43 but there isn't much on that site 07:56:56 there isn´t a download of cefarix os 07:57:05 it sux 07:57:40 does it even exist? 07:59:13 grr 07:59:21 * lynx is too lazy to do that timer stuff 07:59:58 the page exist but there are no screenshot,downloads and no documentation 08:00:15 lynx: aw 08:00:16 lodda: forget about cefarix os, it's not opensource anymore 08:00:41 lynx: warum heisst du lynx? 08:00:56 eks: hm..why? 08:00:58 He used to be karmah, lodda :) 08:01:07 eks: Do you know what it is like? 08:01:09 lodda : atari lyn 08:01:11 lodda : atari lynx 08:01:18 lodda: Cefarix wants to sell his operating system (as crazy as it may sound) 08:01:24 rob_ert: yes, shit 08:01:27 eks: wtf? 08:01:30 eks: Ah, there we go :) 08:01:37 this is funny 08:01:37 lynx: What did I tell you? ;) 08:02:25 microsoft has a monopole and a cefarix OS won´t change this 08:02:38 is it called monopole? 08:02:47 jo 08:02:49 monopoly 08:02:53 monopoly 08:03:04 * rob_ert . o O ( I'm slow... ) 08:03:27 lodda: And no, they don't have any monopoly. 08:03:30 monopoly is a game i thougt 08:03:40 Same word. 08:03:51 They only have like 90% of the market ;) 08:04:35 yeah..but linux and the others are mostly open source and this is no capitalism 08:04:46 capitalism? 08:05:22 genau 08:05:36 i think i shouldn´t use any komplizierte words 08:05:39 But people can sell Linux. 08:05:47 compley words 08:05:51 complicated = kompliziert 08:05:52 copmplex 08:05:55 sldfk 08:05:56 no 08:05:58 thanks 08:06:01 complex? 08:06:10 Can't I use complicated? 08:06:12 both are exchangable in that case. 08:06:14 sure 08:06:15 * rob_ert thinks in swedish :) 08:06:17 wossname: :D 08:06:18 ich kenn nur komplexe zahlen 08:06:27 ach so? 08:06:32 *g* 08:06:38 was ist sqrt(-2) denn? 08:07:12 Wurzel meinst du, oder 08:07:14 --- quit: alphakiller (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:07:33 i * Wurzel 2 08:07:49 würd ich sagen 08:08:02 nah 08:08:09 wurzel von -2 08:08:14 ist ? 08:08:31 hm..ich bin erst in der 8 08:08:40 tschuldigung 08:08:51 und wat isset nu 08:09:19 i * wurzel 2, oder nich? 08:09:30 hehe 08:09:42 das glaub ich, ja 08:10:03 also hatte ich recht? 08:10:29 ja. 08:10:33 aber.... 08:10:42 You didn't tell me the whole number! 08:10:46 gibt es eigentlich schon ein SciOS oder ein SicOS 08:10:51 rob_ert ? 08:10:57 hä? 08:10:58 Either do that, or prove it's irrational, lodda :) 08:11:09 rob_ert : you mean squareroot , yes ? 08:11:13 how should i do this? 08:11:25 it is too long! 08:11:29 *g* 08:11:35 rob_ert like x^(1/2) ? 08:11:37 with no end 08:11:53 da is auch kein unterschied 08:12:05 1.4 irgendwas 08:12:29 lynx: yes. 08:12:34 Hehe 08:12:36 ja 08:12:41 But prove it's irrational :) 08:12:42 immerhin weiss ich was irrationale und reelle zahlen sind 08:12:42 rob_ert : how can you do a squareroot form a negative number ? 08:12:48 lynx: You can't 08:12:54 Unless you define i^2 = -1 08:13:02 lynx: Go to school! 08:13:08 ja robert 08:13:08 ? 08:13:09 Don't skip the math lessons =) 08:13:17 gut aufgepasst 08:13:19 rob_ert : heh? 08:13:26 lynx: ! 08:13:31 lynx: go to the math lessons :) 08:13:36 they'll teach you, hopefully 08:13:40 lynx: wie alt bist du? 08:13:41 rob_ert : what does sqrt do ? 08:13:55 square root 08:14:08 lynx 08:14:12 sqrt(4) = 2 08:14:14 for example 08:14:16 Wurzel 08:14:20 rob_ert : and you wrote srqt(-2) 08:14:21 ich glab daß er 18 ist 08:14:26 glaub 08:14:32 lynx: Yes? 08:14:34 achso 08:14:56 Anyway... teach lynx some math lodda. 08:15:01 I'm going out. 08:15:06 nö 08:15:44 ich möchte lieber nen bisschen assembler gelehrt werden 08:16:16 go back to china, bitch! 08:16:29 i(the root of -1, not me) fucks 08:17:00 j is better 08:17:03 lodda: :) 08:17:18 lodda: Go learn some asm then 08:17:19 electrical engineers have their own special imaginary number called j 08:17:21 well...bbl 08:18:42 pavlovskii: what is j? 08:19:01 j = i 08:19:17 'i' gets confused for 'current' so we use 'j' instead 08:19:21 anyway... 08:19:23 lodda: #ypn - Young Programmer's Network... might be something for you :) 08:19:28 i dont remember those complex numbers 08:19:28 * rob_ert leaves for real. 08:19:38 * pavlovskii avoids the obvious pun 08:19:41 thanks 08:19:49 pff 08:19:55 * lynx hates to be the ass 08:19:58 what's opn then? old programmer's network? 08:20:22 lynx warum bist du der arsch? 08:21:00 lodda : ich habe von dem i*wurzel blah noch nie was gehoert 08:21:41 lynx: is doch egal 08:21:46 noe 08:21:54 warum? 08:22:26 ich bin in meiner klasse dafür verhasst das ich nen mathe-freak bin 08:22:40 lodda: erklaer mir das 08:22:44 das mathe zeug 08:22:56 kennst du wurzeln? 08:23:09 blah 08:23:11 natuerlich 08:23:22 also..so gut kenn ich mich mit i nich aus 08:23:26 ich hane noch nie was von i^2 = -1 gehoert 08:24:19 lynx: imaginary numbers are different to real numbers 08:24:20 --- quit: gab (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:24:22 normalerweise gibt es keine zahl die mit sich selbst mal genommen wird eine -zahl ergibt 08:24:23 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 08:24:25 real numbers are what you are used to 08:24:33 pavlovskii : yes 08:24:40 imaginary numbers are negative real when you square them 08:24:43 that's all 08:24:49 pavlovskii : thats why i was confused, and didtn get why robert said "learn maths" 08:25:28 lodda : ja 08:25:36 they're nothing special... we have integers and decimals... odd and even numbers... and real and imaginary 08:25:46 ok jetzt bist du kein arsch mehr *g* 08:26:22 lodda : dann kommt was positives raus ? 08:26:26 bie -2? 08:27:58 also wenn man die wurzel von 2 mit der "Wurzel" von -1 = i mal nimmst kommt -2 raus 08:28:08 ist so ich verstehs auch nich 08:30:06 also nochmal 1*1 = 1, und -1*-1 (auch)= 1, aber i*i = -1 08:31:10 das macht es kompliziert 08:32:48 meine scheiss schwester hat meinen taschen-rechner 08:33:47 lodda: :) 08:33:48 auch egal 08:34:29 i´m just 13 and no teacher 08:34:42 lynx: noch da? 08:34:43 lodda: Have you written any fractal viewing program? 08:34:46 lodda: do you know complex exponentials? 08:35:42 lodda: Do you know the square root of i? :) 08:35:47 Well... anyway, bbl. 08:37:25 no, i haven´t written a fractal viewing program 08:38:23 and the square root of i, i don´t know, i think it don´t exist 08:38:53 pav.:no 08:38:54 it does... I'm trying to remember how to work it out 08:39:17 I´M JUST 13!!!! 08:39:38 yeah, and I've only got undergraduate-level maths, what's your problem? :) 08:40:03 I think I'll have to stop idling here 08:40:10 this channel does nothing but make me feel stupid 08:40:13 * eks knows how to do myvar++; and that's about it ;) 08:40:33 wossname: you ARE stupid! 08:40:40 Rico: huhuh.. 08:40:48 *sob* 08:40:49 i´m just learning maths,programing and physiks 08:40:50 eks: huhuh..? 08:40:57 Rico: that was rude.. 08:41:07 well, the truth hurts. 08:41:08 i don´t mean sports 08:41:25 wossname: truth? don't you know we are all compulsive liars? ;) 08:42:49 back 08:42:55 oki 08:42:55 lodda: cos(pi/4) + i*sin(pi/4) = sqrt(i) 08:43:00 * eks gives lynx his Daily Dose of Love(tm) 08:43:32 * Rico gives eks his Love Puddin'(tm) 08:43:54 that´s not fair 08:44:09 wossname : i agree with you ... me feels stupid 08:44:10 lodda: ? 08:44:35 where should i know, in school we hadn´t the root 08:44:38 yet 08:44:53 eks :/ i dont know about tose numbers :/ 08:45:26 lynx: myvar ++ is the same as myvar = myvar + 1; 08:45:26 here's my sqrt(i) maths: 08:45:28 i = 0 + i 08:45:28 magnitude = 1 08:45:28 phase = atan(1/0) = pi/2 08:45:28 exp(i * pi/2) = i 08:45:28 sqrt(exp(i * pi/2)) = sqrt(i) 08:45:29 exp(i * pi/4) = sqrt(i) 08:45:31 cos(pi/4) + i*sin(pi/4) = sqrt(i) 08:45:35 eks : .... 08:45:42 eks : I MEAN THOSE COMPLEX NUMBERS 08:45:45 jesus 08:45:48 tons of activity 08:45:52 lynx: why do you tell me that? I'm not the one who asked.. 08:45:53 ^__________- 08:45:57 * nothing sips his coffee 08:46:05 * lynx depressed 08:46:11 pav.:are you studiing math? 08:46:12 * nothing hugs lynx 08:46:18 * lynx bites 08:46:18 lodda: not primarily 08:46:24 * eks humps lynx's left big toe 08:46:30 I've nearly finished an electrical engineering degree and we had to learn this bs 08:46:38 * lynx kicks eks 08:46:52 what is "magnitude" ? 08:47:09 size, "ampleur" 08:47:12 it's the size of a vector (complex number = real + imaginary = could be a vector) 08:47:20 magnitude = sqrt(x * x + y * y) 08:47:31 hey math sux 08:47:37 lodda: math ownz >:} 08:47:43 ... 08:47:44 maths sux0r 08:47:54 * lynx doesnt get anything of this shite 08:48:04 let´s talk about interesting things 08:48:26 yes yes! let's talk about IP wrap-around in v86!! 08:48:37 yes! yes! no! 08:48:41 I'm going to get some watermelon 08:48:49 * nothing hates maths 08:48:56 * pavlovskii too 08:49:12 despite the fact that computers just are big adding/copying machines ;/ 08:49:21 haha now i don´t understand the things 08:49:45 lets talk about more trivial things... 08:49:46 lodda: bist du ein scheisskopf? 08:49:50 like .... 08:49:53 hrm 08:49:55 heh 08:49:55 pr0n 08:49:59 * lynx is away 08:50:00 breasts 08:50:04 nichts hasst mathe == nothing hates math*g* 08:50:23 lynx ist ein scheisskopf, wie sind schiesskopfen 08:50:30 koepfe 08:50:33 köpfe 08:50:59 aja ich verstehe 08:51:27 lodda : du musst ihn verstehen... er kommt aus polen 08:51:56 lynx:und woher kommst du 08:52:19 you know .. .nothing is like 10k brain attached to a 60GB mouth 08:52:25 lodda : deutschland 08:52:49 lynx:das sagtest du bereits 08:53:00 lodda : du meinst bundesland? 08:53:01 bayern 08:53:06 ich meine wo in deutschland? 08:53:14 ich owhne in bad reichenhall, das ist nahe salzburg in A 08:53:16 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 08:53:25 ... 08:53:25 heh 08:53:30 nothing : pff 08:53:34 da war doch mal nen amoklauf oder? 08:53:42 5k brain! 08:53:42 yup 08:53:43 * Javanx is away: I'm busy 08:53:47 und da kommt das salz her 08:53:53 my brain won the m2k2 asm compo 08:53:56 but my mouth was too big and bloated ;/ 08:54:08 mmm. 256b ai compo. 08:54:22 lodda ja =) 08:54:24 my new TTY driver is shit 08:54:28 Bayern is kagge, NRW rulez 08:54:35 nothing : heh 08:54:40 stoiber sux 08:54:47 everyone knows 08:54:51 Bonn is the best city in DE 08:55:17 häh, BONN sux, Ruhrgebiet rulez 08:55:40 Mönchengladbach rules 08:55:47 Berlin rulez, but Ruhrgebiet´s besser 08:56:15 nö, mönchengladbach ist genau wie bonn 08:56:32 pah 08:56:55 --- join: alphakiller (~fernando@200.230.129.72) joined #osdev 08:57:01 ich (used to live) nahe Mönchengladbach 08:57:15 hey man der channel is ganz schön gross 08:57:33 --- quit: alphakiller (Client Quit) 08:57:51 du hast mal in der nähe von mönchengladbach gelebt, oder was? 08:58:08 ? 08:58:59 hrm 08:59:05 hm..you lived near to mönchengladbach, i said 08:59:35 ja :) 08:59:58 ok nun hab ichs verstanden 09:00:09 Oberhausen rulez 09:00:16 precisely 09:01:34 nothing : bumbum 09:01:44 nothing : why do you call me scheisskopf all the time? 09:02:06 it's the only thing i know how to say in german :) 09:02:14 ich lad mir gerad mandrake 8.2 runter 09:02:25 you'd make a great tourist there. ;) 09:02:29 nothing : may i call you dupek or pierdolec now? 09:02:32 nothing: haha, that´s really funny 09:02:34 heh 09:02:40 i know what dupek means 09:02:44 that's not that bad 09:02:54 pierdolec... i know pierde means stinky 09:02:54 nothing : bah 09:02:55 i think 09:03:08 nothing : pierdol mnie ty kurva 09:03:12 lynx: was heisst pierdolec 09:03:33 lodda : "fucker" 09:03:52 *g* 09:03:57 heh 09:04:09 ich mochte bier bitte 09:04:15 welche sprache? 09:04:23 polnisch 09:04:26 bitte ich mochte meinen bleisstipf spitzen! 09:04:31 aha 09:04:35 heh 09:04:40 i learned that thing in german class too 09:04:57 you want beer? 09:05:04 uhrm 09:05:08 at that time? 09:06:23 does anybody remember when blue smarties were 'the' color? 09:06:30 i do 09:06:44 when blue smarties where which colour? red? 09:06:47 another rememberer! 09:06:49 lynx == blue smartie 09:06:54 grrr 09:06:55 red smarties are inferior upstarts 09:06:57 have to go 09:07:04 doný uo mean M&M's? 09:07:15 heh 09:07:35 --- part: lodda left #osdev 09:07:38 orange smarties are the best 09:07:40 wow 09:07:45 lodda and lynx use the same isp 09:07:54 they are isp-brothers 09:08:03 nothing: or they are both German...? 09:08:07 nothing : i think you are hitler`s evil twin... 09:08:18 pavlovskii: that too 09:08:56 aargh! I hate sourceforge! 09:09:04 nothing : tell me something 09:09:16 I'm trying to submit a support request because I have one file in the CVS which cannot be committed to 09:09:19 lynx: i had sex with your girlfriend last night 09:09:25 nothing : bah 09:09:35 nothing : if your iq was two points higher , you were a rock 09:09:49 lynx: she was good to me, her XIO ports were very warm and welcoming 09:09:57 nothing : AHHHH 09:10:05 stop even thinking about it 09:10:06 PIG 09:10:08 hehe 09:10:14 grrr 09:10:28 i was in an orgy with mine and yours... 09:10:31 Sbus + XIO :)) 09:10:49 grrr 09:10:58 --- quit: ctkrohn ("Client Exiting") 09:11:44 nothing : bah 09:12:01 nothing : you are not nice :( a guy with your iq should have a low voice , too :( 09:12:53 nothing: you never even touched a woman's territory, so shutup :p 09:14:12 heh 09:14:22 heh 09:14:25 true, true 09:14:29 only in my dreams ;/ 09:14:37 eks : XIO = indigo`s io ports 09:14:41 nothing : haha 09:14:47 but i doubt lynx has either.. 09:15:04 and eks != woman, lynx :P 09:15:26 anyone in here use samba ? 09:15:42 * pavlovskii uses SMB, but I don't think that's the same thing :) 09:15:46 i did, with win2k, but samba doesn't work too well wint winXP pro for some reason 09:15:53 I440r: I do at work, why? 09:16:08 i think MS changed their protocol to fsck with samba 09:16:11 point is. i have a mount point thats root.users but when i mount the share it goes root.root on me 09:16:22 nothing: wouldn't surprise me considering they are in court with them 09:16:47 really? 09:16:52 ja 09:16:52 ms actually took them to court? 09:16:55 ja 09:16:57 what kind of case do they have? 09:17:02 they didn't do anything illegal, afaik 09:17:13 something like reverse engineering a proprietary protocol 09:17:28 thx to the DMCA :( 09:17:40 gah 09:17:48 hrm 09:17:51 that's not good 09:18:06 nothing : /unig nothing 09:18:13 shall i? 09:18:16 has the WINE project been attacked by MS at all? 09:18:25 nothing: yeah 09:18:26 eks you know us law allows you to recieve ANY transmission at all - even if it encrypted. this is why radar detectors LEGAL under federal law. i bet they can argue THAT one as a defence for samba :) 09:18:31 or hrm.. 09:18:32 maybe not 09:18:39 I know lindows has 09:18:44 not entirely sure about wine yet 09:18:51 lindows ? 09:19:06 Lindows has, over the name 09:19:11 oh, just over the name 09:19:22 I440r: being able to receive a transmission is one thing, knowing how to decypher it is another 09:19:25 --- join: Shenka (~chen@213.8.111.2) joined #osdev 09:19:32 nothing : what are you doing? 09:19:42 hi 09:19:46 lynx: talking on irc and looking at lindows.com 09:19:57 this lindows thing looks pretty weird 09:20:13 eks you cant make it illegal to read. so if by recieving the transmission you figure out how to decrypt it..... 09:20:52 I440r: what they have to prove in court is that the samba ppl figured out how to interpret it without reverse engineering the MS binaries 09:21:07 uhm 09:21:24 didn't the guy just sniff the data sent between MS SMB servers/clients? 09:21:31 afaik it wasn't the binary that he analyzed 09:21:33 just the packet data 09:21:33 nothing: that's my guess 09:21:37 nothing thats how he did it at first 09:21:48 nothing: the thing is to know if he did it all the way 09:21:54 so he was forced to disassemble it later on? 09:22:05 if thats how they STILl do it m$ got NOTHING!! 09:22:13 I440r: if :p 09:22:20 hmmm 09:22:29 eks i challence m$ to prove they reverse engineered the binary :) 09:22:34 MS probably got nothing anyway 09:22:35 so MS could take you to court even if they just *suspect* disassembly? 09:22:43 but they like to bully ppl in court all the time :( 09:22:53 like, if you wrote, say, a win32 or .net execution layer for your hobby os 09:23:21 nothing: yeah, saying they have the proof and will show it in court. But then they turn out to have nothing and you wasted all your money just to defend yourself .. 09:24:29 damn 09:24:34 that sucks 09:24:55 --- quit: pavlovskii ("will re-connect") 09:24:55 do you think they would pursue you legally if you successfully made something such as that? 09:25:06 * rob_ert is back! :D 09:25:20 cool! 09:25:23 welcome back! 09:26:21 hrm, what exactly is this lindows thing? just a friendly packaging for Wine? 09:26:22 nothing: I don't think they would for .NET, since it's a standard 09:26:35 eks: but win32 they would..? 09:26:35 nothing: more than that, a kinda integrated in linux wine... 09:26:36 --- join: Pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-833.duckdive.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 09:27:06 what are your opinions on lindows, guys, does it look like anything that will become important? 09:27:07 nothing: yeah, most likely, cause there are some parts of the API that were never released publicly, therefore if you are compliant you sure as hell reversed engineered their stuff 09:27:43 nothing: I think it remains to be seen 09:28:01 from a purely technical viewpoint, why not use a Linux or BSD box with Wine? 09:28:07 it looks like some kind of corporate venture 09:28:19 right 09:28:22 $99 IIRC 09:28:26 gah 09:28:41 i think some suits are trying to make money off opensource again :> 09:28:43 if they can get as 'finished' as real Windows then they may have something useful 09:29:28 right 09:29:40 kind of like a professional looking windows/linux amalgam :) 09:31:18 anything that is win32 compatible is unsecure and prone to crash 09:31:26 read the eWeek article ;) 09:31:40 eks: why? 09:32:08 Pavlovskii: the message queuing algorithms used and various other stuff were badly designed 09:32:23 they are flawed from the start from an architectural point of view 09:32:37 how? 09:32:39 *sigh* 09:32:44 Pavlovskii: read the article :P 09:32:51 * Pavlovskii doesn't have the article 09:32:56 it was on /. a couple of days ago IIRC 09:32:58 eks, you really need to get over your m$-sux, bill-gates-1s-3v1l dogma :P 09:33:07 win32 isn't 100% useless 09:33:17 nothing: eks is relatively balanced... you tried talking to air? 09:33:24 Pavlovskii: air is hopeless ;p 09:33:31 lol 09:33:37 eks's single goal for his os 09:33:39 i'm not kidding 09:33:43 is to "destroy microsoft" 09:34:08 ? I didn't know eks has an OS 09:34:13 errrr 09:34:17 s/eks/air 09:34:18 heh 09:34:18 eks: you written an OS since I was last on IRC? 09:34:30 nothing: ah :) 09:34:30 I thought air's goal was to destroy everything? 09:34:31 Pavlovskii: i meant air, not eks :) 09:34:52 but eks was the lead coder for UUU 09:35:38 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/05/20/2124248&mode=thread&tid=109 09:35:59 oh man 09:36:12 comcast was sued for information gathering on user's browsing habits 09:36:16 arg 09:36:20 * nothing hates his isp 09:36:21 eks: lol 09:36:22 Pavlovskii: didn't work on any os since I was leading Uuu 09:36:34 didn't think so 09:36:36 Pavlovskii: go read the article on eWeek :p 09:36:57 I'm trying... is the slashdot article linked to it? 09:37:09 http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D26875,00.asp 09:37:50 A senior Microsoft Corp. executive told a federal court last week that sharing information with competitors could damage national security and even threaten the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan. He later acknowledged that some Microsoft code was so flawed it could not be safely disclosed. 09:38:07 rofl 09:38:17 ah 09:38:18 so flawed it could not be safely disclosed. 09:38:27 haha 09:38:37 eks: Message Queueing (capital M, capital Q) is not a fundamental part of the Win32 API 09:38:49 disclosed? 09:38:52 During his second day on the stand, Allchin conceded that Microsoft has already identified at least one protocol and two APIs that it plans to withhold from public disclosure under the security carve-out. 09:38:58 The protocol, which is part of Message Queuing, contains a coding mistake that would threaten the security of enterprise systems using it if it were disclosed, Allchin said. 09:39:31 heh 09:40:53 shame that Microsoft can't apply the same innovation they use for their excuses in their software :) 09:40:55 Pavlovskii: fundamental or not, 2 of the related APIs are flawed and the related protocol is too, doesn't sound good 09:48:17 hmm, I think I'll make a UI for my program now (program = final year project) 09:48:38 Pavlovskii : how old are you? 09:50:39 21 now 09:50:44 I was 20 before 09:51:07 uhrm 09:51:14 ok 09:51:21 heh... the core algorithm executes as O(N^4) ;) 09:54:17 "good" 09:54:21 well 09:54:24 i'm spent. 09:54:27 shaved my hair. 09:54:31 changed cloths. 09:54:41 smell good (ie not that much smoke) 09:54:55 where ma bitches at? 09:57:30 hrm 09:57:35 cookin 09:57:39 --- quit: cchung (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:57:44 i got all 12 mp3s of the hives album 09:57:49 kicks *ass* 09:57:55 i wish i could see them live 10:05:24 --- join: SLACKo (~foot@host-65-199-129-156.link.net) joined #osdev 10:07:43 hi fols 10:07:48 --- join: Jeroen__ (jeroen@kf-nawij-fp06-189.dial.kabelfoon.nl) joined #osdev 10:07:50 folks* 10:07:54 hi SLACKo 10:07:56 hi Javanx 10:07:58 I got that question 10:08:01 oops 10:08:05 I meant hi Jeroen 10:08:10 but hi Javanx too :) 10:08:21 what's the first thing that gets pushed in the stack when a program starts? 10:08:30 nothing 10:08:31 say on linux 10:08:35 oh 10:13:05 --- quit: Jeroen (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:17:48 --- join: mur (ammu@baana-62-165-189-112.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 10:18:00 Hej. 10:18:14 moikka 10:19:14 * Javanx is back (gone 01:25:32) 10:20:19 hi Pavlovskii :) 10:21:15 nothing? 10:21:15 hmmmmmm 10:21:49 OH MY FUCKING GOD 10:21:52 I don't know about Linux 10:21:53 IRSSI WAS BACKDOORED 10:21:59 apparently so 10:22:04 nothing: ? 10:22:05 HOOLY FUCKING SHIT 10:22:08 FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCKQ$ 10:22:09 !@I$!$J!@LK$!@$U!@JU 10:22:13 nothing: only the configure script 10:22:15 I KNOW 10:22:21 I BUILT ALL MY IRSSI'S FROM SOURCE 10:22:27 I WAS BACKDOORED 10:22:27 o 10:22:30 EKS 10:22:31 I AM FUCKED 10:22:36 nothing: compiled binary ... lolol 10:22:38 EKS IF YOU BUILT IRSSI FROM SOURCE 10:22:41 * eks is runing compiled cvs >:} 10:22:44 YOU ARE BASCKDOORED 10:22:45 EKS 10:22:47 ITS NOT THE BINARY 10:22:47 nothing: nah 10:22:51 IF YOU COMPILED IT YOURSELF 10:22:53 it's compile time options 10:22:53 YOU'RE BACKDOORED 10:23:01 ... 10:23:02 nothing: thank you, but I read the stuff 10:23:04 * nothing calms down 10:23:10 let's talk rationally 10:23:10 ok 10:23:10 sorry 10:23:12 can you please enlighten me? 10:23:17 ehehe 10:23:21 what i did 10:23:22 is 10:23:26 i downloaded the irssi sources 10:23:29 from irssi.org 10:23:32 for 0.8.4 10:23:50 just ran standard ./configure 10:23:50 and 'make' 10:24:10 nothing: well, redownload the sources today and re-run ./configure and make 10:24:16 * eks always get his sources from cvs :) 10:24:24 * eks was never backdoored :P 10:24:24 uh 10:24:24 but 10:24:24 so 10:24:28 i was backdoored? 10:24:31 fuck 10:24:35 FUCK 10:24:37 ahahah 10:24:43 FUCKKK 10:24:49 that will teach ya 10:24:51 use the cvs sources 10:24:52 not a release 10:25:25 eks 10:25:27 there..? 10:25:31 oh man 10:25:31 oh man 10:25:33 oh man 10:25:34 * nothing cries 10:25:35 SLACKo: huh.. no.. I'm on Mars.. 10:25:41 fuck fuck fuck 10:25:45 nothing: stop crying and recompile the darn thing :P 10:25:46 FUCK 10:25:50 you don't understand 10:25:52 lol 10:25:53 ok 10:25:54 someone had access to my machine 10:25:54 hi 10:25:58 probably 10:26:04 O#N!#( 10:26:09 nothing: so what.. it's a "maybe" 10:26:10 I AM SO ANGRY 10:26:14 how is it a mabye? 10:26:22 i was definitely backdoored 10:26:27 eks: I got a question can I ask? 10:26:32 nothing: what the fuck are yous till doing on irc with the release? 10:26:37 get the fuck off the net for a while 10:26:40 eks: i'm paralyzed with rage 10:26:44 GODDAMMIT 10:26:49 nothing: until you get your new version, otherwise I'll root you in 30s >:} 10:26:53 lol 10:26:58 ... 10:27:01 --- quit: nothing ("FUCK") 10:27:03 ahaha 10:27:10 SLACKo: sure :p 10:27:18 thanks:) 10:28:03 * eks is ROTFLHAO @ nothing 10:28:30 eks: are Environment variables pushed on the stack when a program starts executing? 10:28:31 eks, dont spam us with so long nonsense words with capslock on;) 10:28:31 * Pavlovskii smugly uses mIRC 10:28:39 eks lol 10:28:59 mur: ehehe 10:29:26 SLACKo: I highly doubt it, maybe a pointer to a Environment array or something like that, but never all the vars 10:29:43 oh 10:29:57 I think that's what Minix does though 10:30:08 Pavlovskii: push all the vars? that would be stupid 10:30:19 ok thanks eks 10:30:59 * eks gives a good evil laugh at the expense of nothing >:} 10:31:20 eks: I'm too lazy to find my Minix book but I think the kernel pushes a process's vars onto the stack, then pushes a pointer to them 10:32:31 I think that's why linux do too 10:32:37 s/why/what/ 10:32:49 I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere 10:33:44 well, there's one way to know, try it >:} 10:33:57 try what? 10:34:51 or how?:) 10:34:54 yes, Minix does push the command line arguments and environment variables onto a process's initial stack 10:35:16 as well as envp, argv and argc 10:35:41 what's envp? 10:36:37 array of pointers to environment variables -- it's like argv 10:36:47 oh k 10:37:01 I don't think it's standard, but some compilers let you do int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp); 10:37:24 oh 10:37:28 gcc ? 10:38:20 it's a run-time library issue rather than a compiler one 10:38:46 Pavlovskii:would you show me like an ASCII sketch on how the stack would look like with Minix? 10:39:08 SLACKo: I assume you don't have "Operating Systems: Design & Implementation"...? 10:39:16 I have it 10:39:23 page 370 then 10:39:33 second edition? 10:39:50 yes 10:39:53 figure 4-39 10:39:53 ok lemme check 10:40:42 --- join: lodda (lodda@p508FD107.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:40:47 Hi. 10:41:21 hallo lodda :) 10:41:21 har 10:41:22 ok 10:41:23 hi 10:41:38 now i have a sleep function , too :P 10:41:38 lol 10:41:59 * Pavlovskii has a sleep function :) 10:42:03 have to eat 10:42:05 huhuh.. I was calling sys_fork() instead of sys_write() in my SLACKo's envvars test :p 10:42:34 heh 10:42:45 Pavlovskii : =) 10:42:53 Pavlovskii : wel , i started yesterday =) 10:42:53 Pavlovskii 10:43:00 * mur has AUTOMATIC speel function!! 10:43:03 sleep 10:43:05 agh :P 10:43:07 my OS has a sleep function too 10:43:07 heh 10:43:11 as well as me 10:43:25 i can configure it though :) 10:43:26 SLACKo: the first variable on the stack is the number of parameters 10:44:08 ok then? 10:44:20 mur: I can't configure mine, although alarm() usually works 10:44:28 Pavlovskii : hrm 10:44:38 I hate C++ 10:44:51 why should State1 be different to State<1>? bah 10:44:52 Pavlovskii : i have beep , too :P 10:44:58 beep() 10:45:06 ans sound(freq) 10:45:13 fear my elite kernel :P 10:45:19 cool! I don't have sound yet 10:45:25 ;) 10:45:32 like | ret | arg1 | arg2 | arg3 | envp | # of parameters ? 10:45:44 Pavlovskii : hrm 10:45:45 * SLACKo is confused 10:46:04 Pavlovskii : you want the code? 10:46:10 SLACKo: let's say you run "./prog -vas huh" 10:46:15 SLACKo: you will have on the stack: 10:46:21 hmm, I've got the DJGPP source, which has the sound() function 10:46:21 -> pointer to "huh" 10:46:26 -> pointer to "-vas" 10:46:32 -> pointer to "./prog" 10:46:36 lynx: you wrote the UUU SB driver, didn't you? 10:46:37 -> number of params: 3 10:46:51 Pavlovskii lmao , yes 10:47:00 eks: but where is the environment variable? 10:47:14 Pavlovskii : i never finished it ... there are some bugs 10:47:17 SLACKo: I'm still checking.. /me is not reading docs.. rather using nasm and a couple of hacking tricks :P 10:47:25 Pavlovskii : but you can play sounds 10:47:30 oh ok;) 10:47:33 cool... I never got that far 10:47:39 Pavlovskii : streaming is a bit bogus 10:47:42 in fact, I didn't get anywhere at all 10:47:50 heh 10:48:01 Pavlovskii : sb is fun 10:48:26 sb? 10:48:40 soundblaster 10:48:52 lynx: have you seen Chris Giese's sound card code? 10:48:52 SLACKo: seems like there's a big "0" on the stack after the params.. 10:49:12 --- join: frankie (frankie@modem-2745.bonobo.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 10:49:19 finally 10:49:22 eks: like this? ******((((([[[[[ 0 ]]]]])))))****** 10:49:29 damn 10:49:37 my team dudes are never there when i need them 10:49:45 lynx: :( 10:49:46 Pavlovskii : i am not sure 10:49:50 eks:yes that's a null 10:49:58 Pavlovskii : i read several docs 10:50:00 anyway, I copied his code across but never really did anything with it 10:50:16 Pavlovskii : hrm.. did you look at my code? 10:50:20 Pavlovskii : it is pretty simple 10:50:26 Pavlovskii : if i remember rite 10:50:27 lynx: I had a look through the asm on the uuu cvs 10:50:35 lynx : =) 10:50:49 what was the UUU driver interface like? simple? 10:50:50 * eks wonders what's on the other side of the NULL.. envp ? .. 10:51:13 well 10:51:18 eks: the last element of argv[] is usually NULL (that may be an ISO requirement but I'm not sure) 10:51:22 coding a cell was in the end pretty simple 10:51:25 someone told me it's like that: 10:51:28 >NULLNULL 10:51:37 what do you think? 10:51:54 GEEE 10:51:57 so much to do 10:52:02 no time for drugs :/ 10:52:18 Pavlovskii : what is your project page again? 10:52:29 lynx: bah. 10:52:30 the best url is http://mobius.sourceforge.net/ 10:52:32 mobius.sf.net? 10:52:35 ok 10:52:56 Pavlovskii : how many dudes are in your team? 10:53:19 hmm, I'm the only one who's actually submitted any code yet 10:53:31 i dunno it's realy confusing 10:53:34 jace48 is working on a vesa 2 driver 10:53:47 there are some other guys but I need to sort them out with some jobs 10:54:11 Pavlovskii : what is cache.c ? aout 10:54:29 Pavlovskii: the figure is for execve(name,argv,envp); but what's if it doesnt' have envp as a parameter like just main() ..? 10:54:38 --- nick: Jeroen__ -> Jeroen 10:54:42 it wouldn't push envp? 10:55:06 lynx: huh? cache.c manages caches for files 10:55:22 hrm 10:55:34 --- join: keller` (~aNgRa@200.193.172.28) joined #osdev 10:55:34 Pavlovskii : damn.. there is soo much i have to know... 10:55:42 SLACKo: if you miss off the envp when you declare main() it doesn't matter 10:56:09 maybe 10:56:19 eks got somethin ? 10:56:22 SLACKo: ok.. all the environment vars are pushed onthe stack... 10:56:34 -> 0 10:56:38 the Minix kernel always pushes all that stuff, but if declare main with fewer parameters, your program will ignore the extras 10:56:39 -> ptr to env var string 10:56:40 -> ptr to env var string 10:56:40 -> ptr to env var string 10:56:42 -> 0 10:56:48 -> ptr to last param 10:56:53 -> ptr to previous to last param 10:56:57 -> ptr to .. 10:57:02 -> ptr to command line 10:57:06 -> number of params 10:57:13 TOS 10:57:31 Pavlovskii : how does your gfx kernel work? 10:57:34 * eks finds that a bit lame and slow but oh well.. 10:57:51 eks:are they pushed before the function paramers? 10:58:01 parameters* 10:58:36 umm does anyone here know of any good code that controls the 8042 (in prot mode)? 10:59:01 lynx: the kernel-mode stuff is done by the video driver. at first I had all the drawing in the kernel, so that 4bpp VGA would be fast 10:59:13 --- join: debug (odzctbo175@glupnij.hemmet.chalmers.se) joined #osdev 10:59:22 but now I've made it so that all the video drivers do is mode switching (and possibly bank switching) and all the drawing/blitting is handled in user mode 10:59:27 Hej debug. 10:59:35 eks:so like every env variable has a pointer that is pushed on the stack? 10:59:36 rob_ert: hello 10:59:38 I'll probably move the blitting to kernel mode to support acceleration 10:59:43 :) 10:59:52 eks : or is it just one pointer that points to the array of env variables? 10:59:56 SLACKo: yes, every environment var has a pointer pushed on the stack 11:00:17 SLACKo: I'll give you a small program that shows all the env vars and all params :) 11:01:01 --- quit: rob_ert (":-(") 11:01:10 so like if there is 8 env variable each pointer will take 4 bytes so that's 4*8 32 bytes pushed before the # of function parameters 11:01:11 ? 11:01:25 eks:cool:) 11:03:00 Pavlovskii hrm 11:03:17 ok would you ftp? 11:04:13 SLACKo: http://void-core.2y.net/envvars.asm 11:04:29 SLACKo: build using "nasm -f elf envvars.asm; ld -o envvars envvars.o" 11:04:53 oh ok:) 11:05:29 so like if there is 8 env variable each pointer will take 4 bytes so that's 4*8 32 bytes pushed before the # of function parameters 11:05:31 ? 11:05:43 ja 11:06:02 lol...are most of the people in here dead? 11:06:11 * eks notices he even left his display_hex function .. doh :p 11:06:11 who knows 11:06:25 frankie: huh.. yes.. I died 4 years ago 11:06:33 * frankie pokes quiet users 11:06:52 * Pavlovskii is slowly decomposing 11:06:58 lmfao 11:07:06 frankie: I got such code in the Uuu sources (my os) 11:07:10 actually, /me is working on his KICK ARSE STATE MACHINE PROGRAM! 11:07:12 * frankie has maggots slowly feasting on his brain 11:07:33 but it's not really OS-related so I can't tell any of you about it 11:07:37 SLACKo: you understand the code? 11:07:54 eks: Uuu? 11:08:02 frankie: http://uuu.sf.net/ 11:08:09 uhm? 11:08:22 eks: ok thanks, I'll give it a look 11:08:31 frankie: the project is dead but there's much good code in it :) 11:08:34 eks:trying..:) 11:08:40 SLACKo: ;) 11:08:43 eks: Is it GPL? 11:08:53 frankie: BSD and X11 licensed 11:08:58 modified BSD.. 11:09:24 eks: aha...brilliant 11:11:24 * frankie looks around the room 11:11:48 * eks gives frankie a cookie 11:12:07 * frankie takes cookie 11:12:09 * debug is working on COW code 11:12:11 mmmmm 11:12:36 * debug steps out on the roof for a while to get some fresh air 11:12:44 frankie: Mmmmm cookies made out of old folks.. mMMmmm ;) 11:12:52 lol 11:12:57 soylent green >:} 11:13:14 eks: wtf 11:13:28 you have to see the movie to understand :P 11:14:04 oh ok...lol I'll just have to make do with the Simpsons reference that I'm thinking of 11:14:06 eks: so basicaly the stack looks like this if we got 3 env variables |param1|param2|NULL|env1_ptr|env2_ptr|env3_ptr|NULL|env1|env2|env3| ? 11:14:07 there was an old folks home who didn't know where to put the bodies of the ppl dying anymore, and they wanted to make more money 11:14:15 (movie only) 11:14:27 they decided to start making cookies from the bodies 11:14:27 and they made them into cookies? 11:14:41 the cookies got very popular and ppl started wondering why more and more ppl were dying .. 11:14:55 weird...sounds quite a decent film actually...must hire it out sometime 11:14:58 somewhen in the film they realized the cookies were made out of human :p 11:15:03 eheh 11:15:18 a bit of a psycho movie but an interesting brain teaser 11:15:23 indeed 11:15:57 so it's more engaging than your typical Arnold Schwarchenegger fare then 11:16:14 eheh 11:16:38 * frankie fashions cookie into a likeness of Mr Gates 11:16:40 eks..? 11:16:44 SLACKo: ? 11:16:48 eks: so basicaly the stack looks like this if we got 3 env variables |param1|param2|NULL|env1_ptr|env2_ptr|env3_ptr|NULL|env1|env2|env3| ? 11:16:56 :) 11:17:04 --- quit: wossname ("llolpolollheehekekezlxcf^______;dfdzx") 11:17:47 sorry, i'm going a bit OT i know 11:19:04 looks like the nasty people have taken all you lot away and turned you into cookies :P 11:19:08 SLACKo: well, let's say you have 2 params and 3 env vars, it is |3|ptr_to_progname|ptr_param1|ptr_param2|NULL|ptr_env1|ptr_env2|ptr_env3|NULL|prog_name|param1|param2|env1|env2|env3 11:19:33 frankie: if you expect a channel as busy as #debian, you aren't in the right one ;) 11:19:49 ppl code here :P 11:19:52 (at least some do) 11:20:03 lol hey me too 11:20:07 people alternate between coding and making silly comments 11:20:16 and sometimes we talk about OS development too :) 11:20:22 :D yay 11:20:32 I'm neither doing nor talking about OS development :) 11:20:56 ah well; just out of curiosity, who's coding at the moment? 11:21:01 oh 11:21:04 ok 11:21:09 frankie: I am 11:21:10 thx 11:21:35 that's 1; any more? 11:21:36 eks:but where is the number of parameters? 11:21:45 SLACKo: it's the first value on the stack 11:21:54 well, the first one that you POP out.. 11:22:02 so the last one pushed by the OS 11:22:23 oh ok:) 11:23:08 eh... if you are talking about Unix, then the stack looks like |argc|argv|envp| and not |argc|arg0|arg1|arg2|...|... 11:23:23 where argv and envp are char ** 11:23:30 debug: I'm talking about Linux, and I confirm that the stack is looking like I said above 11:23:44 hm... 11:23:54 debug: http://void-core.2y.net/envvars.asm 11:23:57 run it yourself and see 11:24:05 I have no linux machine 11:24:24 debug: ofcourse if you mean the "main" function, yes the stack does look like you put it 11:24:36 but I'm not talking about any clib interaction 11:24:43 ok 11:24:54 good ol' linux...but not red hat tho 11:25:23 all the unices I've worked with have the same interface to the crt0 stub and main() 11:25:32 I think 11:25:36 before I used to hate redhat without valid reason, now that I installed it I hate it even more with a passion and valid reasons 11:25:58 lol 11:26:02 hi! 11:26:07 wb lodda 11:26:20 I wish I went with another distro...oh well 11:26:30 frankie: I'm happy with Debian at home 11:26:43 I was quite satisfied with Gentoo too.. until I had to install X... 11:26:47 (took forever to compile) 11:26:55 i´m searching for simple k_scanf function.can u help me? 11:27:12 i know i´m a stupid sucking beginner 11:27:12 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-1084.abra.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 11:27:16 * eks goes to google and type "k_scanf.c" 11:27:17 eks: which linux distro is best do you think (for OS dev and such) 11:27:23 --- quit: Pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 11:27:31 --- join: tirloni (gpt@neutron.tirloni.org) joined #osdev 11:27:33 lodda: sorry :p 11:27:33 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 11:27:38 lodda: no match found 11:28:00 frankie: there's not really one that is "best", it depends on your taste in general 11:28:21 I like debian because the package management is really well done and upgrading the distro is quite easy 11:28:40 eks: really...is DEB better then RPM? 11:28:50 how to 'speak' with the keyboard in C? 11:28:53 personally I believe that yes 11:29:00 ok. 11:29:12 lodda: use inb() and outb() volatile asm inlines 11:29:21 lodda: port 0x60 and 0x64, have fun 11:29:24 It's just that I've just about had enough with the whole Red Hat 7.0 GCC 2.96 mess 11:29:40 lodda: irq 1 on i386 11:30:06 lodda: I can point you to a piece of info on keyboard h/w ports and scancodes if you want 11:30:10 frankie: what I don't like of redhat is the default installation choice of installing like 8 mail readers, 4 news readers, 3 graphical web browsers, etc... 11:30:48 frankie: that would be nice i need it 11:30:54 * eks points frank and debug to his url list at http://void-core.2y.net, and points lodda to it at the same time.. 11:31:05 cheers eks 11:31:08 lodda: under the io-devices section ;) 11:31:18 ok 11:32:00 lodda: http://www.execpc.com/~geezer/os/ 11:32:10 lodda: under the "OS components" heading 11:32:18 ok 11:32:41 frankie: is that your site? 11:32:52 no 11:33:04 It's Chris Giese's isn't it? 11:33:14 eks: have you heard of Chris Giese? 11:33:50 Lynx, are you around? 11:33:52 pavlovskii: I've seen his name and his site, but didn't know if "frankie" was him or not ;p 11:33:59 yes 11:34:02 lar1 : ja? 11:34:04 woa... lar1 spoke! 11:34:18 eks: I'm honoured...to be mistaken as Chris Geise :P 11:34:20 eks, yeah, I was talking a whole bunch yesterday... 11:34:23 *Giese 11:34:51 lar1: ahh.. the lar1 return :) 11:35:00 lar1: missed ya buddy :) 11:35:10 * frankie checks AOD for links 11:35:35 btw, I put up some more links on my site yesterday 11:35:46 mobius.sf.net/links.html ... some of you might find some of them useful 11:35:51 heh 11:35:53 Yeah 11:35:57 School got out 11:35:59 eks: you've missed my OS in your url list... :) (not that I think you should add it, but Giese has it listed on his site) 11:35:59 So I can stay up till the sun comes up ;) 11:36:01 (Well, kind of) 11:36:10 debug: what is it/ 11:36:12 ? 11:36:26 eks: actually, my previous os which is dead. it was a monolithic kernel. yoctix. 11:36:49 ahh, anything interesting? any papers? good sources to borrow? 11:37:16 nothing interesting... just another unix kernel clone. 11:37:32 how far was it? 11:37:42 gcc port? 11:37:44 http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~f98anga/projects/yoctix/ (if I spelled correctly) 11:37:51 required openbsd or netbsd pre 1.4 to compile 11:38:31 hrm.. parasite kernel.. I see 11:38:32 it is dead. the project I'm working on right now is much more interesting, but doesn't really do much yet. 11:38:36 probably why it never got linked 11:38:44 :) 11:38:47 :p 11:38:50 Right, duty calls...thanks everyone for giving me a great first IRC session 11:38:58 frankie: np, have fun :) 11:39:10 eks: you too 11:39:21 * eks certainly sees more messages per minute on irc than the newsgroup :p 11:39:36 --- quit: frankie ("MS-DOS and *NIX: heaven on Earth!") 11:40:28 eks: what are the arguments for/against using REP MOVS and friends, instead of coding the loop yourself? 11:40:29 hey is any german-speaking person here? 11:43:06 pavlovskii: depends on how big the memory are you have to move is 11:43:28 pavlovskii: if the area to move is > 256bytes, I'd suggest using rep movs* 11:43:38 so small moves = use MOV and take advantage of pipelining etc? 11:44:12 debug: the screenshot on your site brings back memories... we had the same kind of monitors as you back at school... :) 11:44:22 yeah, but you could also do large data blocks with MMX instructions, which would speed things up a tad 11:44:31 pavlovskii: :) 11:53:46 can someone send me a little input-function? 11:53:52 please 11:54:08 example-code 11:54:09 * eks points to the linux and freebsd kernel sources.. 11:54:27 little? 11:54:35 they are only 20MB in size... :P 11:54:40 (compressed) 11:55:38 lodda: sorry, the only os I really coded for something worth is done entirely in asm, so not much use for what you are searching 11:55:48 i mean not the whole kernel only the input function, i said i´m a beginner 11:56:24 this not good i´ve to learn asm 11:56:55 then i only make an output os 11:57:50 if you can call it a os 12:00:06 #define __IN1(s) \ 12:00:06 static inline RETURN_TYPE in##s(unsigned short port) { RETURN_TYPE _v; 12:00:06 #define __IN2(s,s1,s2) \ 12:00:06 __asm__ __volatile__ ("in" #s " %" s2 "1,%" s1 "0" 12:00:06 #ifndef CONFIG_MULTIQUAD 12:00:09 #define __IN(s,s1,i...) \ 12:00:11 __IN1(s) __IN2(s,s1,"w") : "=a" (_v) : "Nd" (port) ,##i ); return _v; } \ 12:00:14 __IN1(s##_p) __IN2(s,s1,"w") __FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO : "=a" (_v) : "Nd" (port) ,##i ); return _v; } 12:00:17 #else 12:00:19 /* Make the default portio routines operate on quad 0 */ 12:00:22 #define __IN(s,s1,i...) \ 12:00:24 __IN1(s##_local) __IN2(s,s1,"w") : "=a" (_v) : "Nd" (port) ,##i ); return _v; } \ 12:00:27 __IN1(s##_p_local) __IN2(s,s1,"w") __FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO : "=a" (_v) : "Nd" (port) ,##i ); return _v; } \ 12:00:30 __INQ(s,s) \ 12:00:32 __INQ(s,s##_p) 12:00:35 #endif /* CONFIG_MULTIQUAD */ 12:00:37 Tee hee hee >:} 12:01:33 THIS holds me from using c :) 12:01:44 Rico: eheheh 12:02:02 it's so good looking 12:02:09 Rico: the only reason you can't understand it is because eks hasn't given the definition of __FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO 12:02:19 since when is c a cryptic language? 12:02:21 if he gave us that, it would be obvious what this code did :) 12:02:35 pav: true, true... 12:02:50 * eks wonders if he should really paste the FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO macro too.. 12:03:00 yes!!! 12:03:04 :D 12:03:17 #ifdef SLOW_IO_BY_JUMPING 12:03:18 #define __SLOW_DOWN_IO "\njmp 1f\n1:\tjmp 1f\n1:" 12:03:18 #else 12:03:18 #define __SLOW_DOWN_IO "\noutb %%al,$0x80" 12:03:18 #endif 12:03:20 #ifdef REALLY_SLOW_IO 12:03:22 #define __FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO __SLOW_DOWN_IO __SLOW_DOWN_IO __SLOW_DOWN_IO __SLOW_DOWN_IO 12:03:25 #else 12:03:28 #define __FULL_SLOW_DOWN_IO __SLOW_DOWN_IO 12:03:30 #endif 12:03:44 * Rico falls from his chair 12:03:56 this is actually easier to read 12:04:12 i wonder if eks have understood what are preprocessing commands for in c ;) 12:04:14 eks: isn't the "slow I/O by jumping" technique pointless on any modern PC? 12:04:35 pavlovskii: yes, that's why there is a #else :p 12:04:41 k 12:04:58 any C code that requires token pasting (##) or line concatenation (\) is evil 12:05:05 mur: me? never.. I don't even know how to create a main() in c... ;) 12:05:06 I like evil code >:) 12:05:22 kbblmaybe 12:05:31 eks: you know what var++; does! 12:05:36 mur: npcl8rmb 12:05:52 Rico: true, truee.. 12:05:57 --- quit: mur ("bbl maybe") 12:11:36 * pavlovskii wonders whether he can drop the FreeBSD ES1371 sound driver into his OS 12:11:50 --- quit: Javanx ("I don't feel a thing, and i stopped remembering. The days are just like moments tourned to hours") 12:12:24 * eks wonders if he can find a couple willing souls to help him out on fprem.. 12:12:40 pavlovskii : =) 12:13:03 lynx: played any music today? 12:14:19 * pavlovskii remembers that FreeBSD 3 and The Möbius have completely different kernels 12:14:57 lynx: kannst du mir vielleicht bei nem tastatur-input helfen in C? 12:17:24 lodda: on what platform? DOS or unix? 12:18:48 what do u mean? what i use? 12:19:40 yes 12:20:31 both 12:21:36 well, if you are running unix you'll need permission to read port 0x60. in DOS you can just read it straight away 12:21:49 but you probably want to hook irq 1 too 12:22:17 do you know how to read data from hardware ports at all? 12:22:59 no 12:25:40 it should be something like inb, or inp, or inportb, or something like that. what kind of compiler do you use? 12:26:07 gcc 12:26:35 on which unix? 12:26:36 linux? 12:26:53 (then I cannot help you) 12:27:08 hrm... nothing is still not back.. 12:27:31 * eks wonders how long it could take to compile irssi for SunOS 12:27:53 lodda: no OS, apart from DOS, will let you access the hardware directly from user mode 12:28:00 you will either have to use DOS, or write your own kernel 12:28:05 eks: don't do it! 12:28:14 * pavlovskii cracks eks' computer 12:28:20 pavlovskii: don't do what? 12:28:31 eks: you're running a bit low on disk space aren't you? 12:28:36 here, let me delete some of those files :) 12:28:43 better? 12:28:54 pavlovskii: if at least you had access :p 12:30:04 hey i mean a input for MY OS 12:32:17 lodda: yes, I know, but you probably use .h files from linux then right? 12:32:28 for inb/outb 12:33:06 why? not hard to write your own 12:33:32 in fact, it's probably harder to reverse-engineer the Linux source than to write your own code :) 12:34:21 pavlovskii: on i386 there are so many variants of in/out, so it might save you some time to use a pre-written .h file 12:34:40 no it should be my os 12:34:45 not linux 12:34:57 and i´m at beginning 12:35:11 there´s io the greatest 12:35:54 --- quit: keller` ("gtg") 12:38:36 lodda: find the file on your linux system which defines inb/outb, and study it. it is called pio.h in some of the bsd variants, I don't know what it is called in linux... 12:39:11 i will look in google 12:40:07 /usr/src/linux/include/asm-i386/io.h 12:40:32 debug: lodda didn't like the code I pasted from that file *g* 12:41:14 :) 12:41:24 it's less readable than the bsd version 12:42:44 lodda: this is from openbsd, but you might understand a bit of it anyway: http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md1gavan/ycx2/ycx2-current/src/ycx2/i386/pio.h.html 12:43:01 hmm 12:43:31 i look 12:44:50 i don´t understand 12:45:03 lodda: copy the code for __inb 12:45:10 but call it inb instead 12:45:32 debug: those sources are much more readable indeed 12:45:33 lodda: but be aware that openbsd and linux use different args for outb 12:46:56 1. 12:47:06 i want to write it myself 12:47:09 2. 12:47:37 i don´t understand asm i know i should be in hell 12:49:52 lodda: if you don't understand assembly language, then why are you trying to do OS coding? (no offense, but it is really hard to write OS code using only high level languages) 12:50:20 lodda: do you want us to explain the background of x86 assembly language, and the AT&T syntax used by gcc; or do you just want to copy & paste these few functions and get on with the important stuff? 12:51:14 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:51:42 * eks starts laying rocks to create a path to I440r so he can connect back... 12:52:00 pavlovskii: i want to make my own OS and when i´ve learned asm i will make these functions by myself 12:52:26 lodda: so.. you want to learn asm then, you odn't want to know how to make inb() and outb() 12:52:29 I guarantee that any in/out function you write yourself will look almost identical to these 12:52:46 mine do, and I've never seen this file before 12:52:51 * eks agrees with pavlovskii 12:52:53 hm..maybe 12:53:21 but then i understand 12:53:26 pavlovskii: ever heard of an os made in Orca? 12:53:31 yuck... Sweden now (/me is watching the Eurovision song contest) 12:53:50 eks: what is Orca? is it a language? 12:53:57 yeah 12:53:59 in any case, no 12:54:19 it's a language for highly parallel machines, it's a bit similar to Occam (another language..) 12:54:56 hmm 13:25:09 --- quit: pavlovskii ("brb") 13:26:15 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-126.alakazam.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 13:38:58 --- quit: tirloni ("Remember the... the... uhh.....") 13:42:34 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:54:21 --- part: lodda left #osdev 13:54:21 --- quit: SLACKo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:13:10 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 14:21:18 if( ((ZF || (!OF != !SF)) && !insn->format.t3.predicted) 14:21:19 || (!(ZF || (!OF != !SF)) && insn->format.t3.predicted)) 14:21:19 { BAD_PREDICTION } 14:21:19 GOOD_PREDICTION; 14:21:25 w00t :p 14:38:33 --- join: Darkvise (~Darkvise@sdn-ar-005watacoP304.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 14:40:57 hey Darkvise 14:41:04 hello 14:47:43 --- join: tirloni (gpt@neutron.tirloni.org) joined #osdev 14:48:15 --- nick: lynx -> lynx_smokin_weed 14:48:25 lynx_smokin_weed: Bah. 14:48:46 --- nick: lynx_smokin_weed -> lynx_busy 14:54:53 --- join: vxd1 (~vxd@pixel.flurple.org) joined #osdev 14:55:28 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 15:05:21 --- join: Jukka (ammu@baana-62-165-189-112.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 15:08:48 i wonder who's going to write the first dna assembler 15:08:51 :P 15:09:04 Heh.. 15:09:27 then there'll be C for dna 15:09:29 hehe 15:09:36 microsoft visual DNA++ 15:09:43 And then VB for dna, and we're all doomed. 15:10:05 hehe 15:10:21 the VB ide will have eyes and ears on the toolbar 15:10:46 i did, when i was using it to develop an Articial lifeform, but then it got a mind of its own and attempted to destroy mankind before i selfdestructed the lab. 15:11:52 * eks thinks we will be seeing Visual DNA++ before even the dna C 15:12:10 mrd_ ms visual DNA++, if you use it, then you will become virus or evil bacteria. it can not do anything good :) 15:12:16 but we could be seeing DNA asm in the next year (if not already available) 15:12:31 Yay. 15:20:22 hrmm is still on the fence whether a emu should be written in asm or C. 15:20:28 hrmm == /me 15:20:53 What I don't know is if writing it an asm will speed it up THAT much. 15:21:15 no, but it would complicate it much more :P 15:21:46 I spose the it might speed it up a bit, but not enough to warrent using asm. 15:21:53 the best C implementation vs the best ASM implement differ from a max of about 10% 15:22:03 hrmm 15:22:13 Hmm 15:22:14 well the cpu that I'm trying to emulator only needs to run at 5MHZ 15:22:15 you would be way better of thinking about the algorithms to use 15:22:20 Some things are easier to write in asm :) 15:22:22 emulate 15:22:23 vxd1: which one is it? 15:22:31 Handling flags in C is...ugh. 15:22:33 eks, specialized 8051 15:22:48 rob_ert: nah it's not 15:22:53 it's a 8051, but has opcodes reversed around. 15:22:58 eks: :) 15:23:00 Liar ;D 15:23:10 rob_ert: I use flags all over, quite easy 15:23:17 How? 15:23:17 rob_ert, flags ? why not write a simple SetBit() routine ? 15:23:25 vxd1: use a macro instead :p 15:23:27 Nah, I mean the CPU flags. 15:23:37 rob_ert: you don't need those at all if you write in C 15:23:38 Like when you emulate "add al,bl" 15:23:52 You want to check when al overflows etc. 15:24:00 rob_ert, on my emu the CPU flags consist of one BYTE in ram. 0xD0h 15:24:06 In asm, you can easily take advantage of the hardware flags. 15:24:13 --- quit: pavlovskii ("brb") 15:24:31 rob_ert: the problem with asm is if you ever want to use your emulator on something else than what you originally designed it for, i.e.: using a Sun to run your emu developed to run on x86 15:24:51 I know. 15:24:59 Never claimed asm was portable. 15:25:06 rob_ert: and in all cases, that would be only 10% speed increment :p 15:25:13 Just said thst thing with flags is a neat trick. 15:25:26 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-51.babbelas.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 15:25:31 most of the time is spend decoding the instruction 15:25:32 eks: Even in an emu with tight inner loops? 15:25:36 not figuring out the flags 15:25:40 I know. 15:25:54 yup the switch() 15:25:59 I've heard C compilers can do a better job on other architectures... 15:26:11 What do you know about that? 15:26:26 x86 is the less compiler friendly architecture there can be :P 15:26:41 at least on other architecture you can rely on some instruction to be faster than others all the time 15:26:46 it's not always true for x86 15:27:14 Hehe :) 15:27:16 eks, the memory map for the emu I'm trying to emulate is like this: internal ram from 0x00 - 0xFF, ROM is located from 0x0000 - 0x2000, and eeprom is located at 0x8000-0x9000 ... 15:27:20 x86 is just too old 15:27:33 eks: Don't you like technology from the 70s? :( 15:27:42 eks, almost all the registers map to the ram (0x00-0xff) except for the PC (program counter) register... 15:27:48 rob_ert: yes, I love punched cards, they are the best mean of storage ;) 15:27:55 Awww :} 15:28:08 vxd1: that's sweet 15:28:30 eks, So I set up a structure that has pointers to various parts of ram... 15:28:45 so for an increment instruction all I have to do is: 15:28:50 --- join: bob (00390@pc2-eabf4-0-cust46.bel.cable.ntl.com) joined #osdev 15:28:54 --- part: bob left #osdev 15:28:55 Hey bobby :) 15:29:00 Bye bobby :( 15:29:01 (*pcpu->ptr_reg.A)++; // <--- Increments register A. 15:29:17 eks, is that very efficient or not ? 15:29:24 vxd1: gen[NDX_AL]++; 15:29:28 :) 15:29:36 NDX_AL being a constant 15:29:42 hrmm 15:29:47 ahhhhhhhhhh 15:29:55 ahahah 15:29:58 ? 15:29:58 that is much better heh 15:30:02 ja :) 15:30:03 :) 15:30:16 the pointer method takes longer ? 15:30:23 all the cpu registers are defined locally within the cpu_mainloop() function 15:30:29 so there's no need for a cpu-> pointer 15:30:39 hrmm... I have your fprem emu... I will take a look at it again. 15:30:44 yes, at least 2 cycles per access 15:30:58 vxd1: make sure you update your sources :) 15:31:01 What can fprem do now? 15:31:43 eks, can I put everything in a struct ? i.e. pcpu->i_ram[A]++ ? 15:31:53 eks, or will that slow it down as well ? 15:32:24 If you put it in a structure, sure. 15:32:25 a struct doesn't slow it down 15:32:29 an array does 15:32:29 Not? 15:32:36 Hmm 15:32:39 * rob_ert thinks. 15:32:45 * Jukka ponders too 15:32:50 Well, if he has a structure pointer? 15:32:51 just to make rob_ert feel confident 15:32:55 Jukka: Bah. 15:32:58 pcpu->i_ram[A]++ as opposed to i_ram[A]++ ? 15:33:01 rob_ert: it's not the structure that slows it down, it's the pointer :p 15:33:09 eks: Bah. 15:33:17 eks: He used -> , didn't he? 15:33:25 _structure pointer_ 15:33:52 vxd1: i_ram[A]++; is sure faster than pcpu->i_ram[A]++; 15:34:03 See? ;) 15:34:13 rob_ert: see? it's the pointer ;) 15:34:18 eks, the problem I have with that is I might need to run multiple instances of the emu in different threads... 15:34:31 vxd1: that's what I do in fprem 15:34:46 vxd1: since i_ram[] would be declared in your function it would be created on the stack 15:34:55 true 15:34:57 :) 15:34:57 each thread gets its own stack 15:35:07 :) 15:35:35 256 bytes isn't too big to be on the stack too, so it works nicely 15:35:42 yah 15:35:58 I also have to deal with eeprom and rom... eeprom is 4096 bytes and rom is 8192 bytes 15:36:13 the rest of the 64kb memory space is mirrored. 15:36:16 What chip are you simulating, vxd1? 15:36:21 rob_ert: 8051 15:36:23 Oh 15:36:26 rob_ert: he siad it just a minute ago.. 15:36:34 said.. 15:36:42 Didn't I440r just write a disassembler/simulator for that? 15:36:43 eks, this is a relatively easy chip to emulate. 15:37:05 vxd1: yeah, I'd compare that chip with a z80 for complexity :) 15:37:10 * pavlovskii hates hardware manufactureres 15:37:12 I think he had an asm version, that he ported to forth... 15:37:14 pavlovskii: :)) 15:37:27 rob_ert, wouldn't mind seeing that. 15:37:40 vxd1: Check comp.lang.forth 15:37:43 what is their problem with documentation? 15:37:49 He posted it that yesterday iirc 15:37:58 Maybe it was only the disassembler though. 15:38:09 rob_ert, well the asm version... 15:38:12 Oh.. 15:38:16 I'd ask him for that :) 15:38:34 He's not online atm... 15:38:50 :) 15:39:21 pavlovskii: I don't have problem understanding hw manufacturer's docs... 15:39:31 but again.. I have a hw background.. 15:39:48 EE ? 15:39:49 * rob_ert thinks eks is cheating... he knows (1) english, (2) other things. 15:39:50 Databooks are readable 15:40:01 heh 15:40:02 yeah, sure, I'd be able to understand the docs -- if I could *find* any! 15:40:24 vxd1: microelectronic and telecom (tech level, not engineering, at least not formally :PP ) 15:40:31 looking specifically for specs for the Ensoniq/Creative ES1370/ES1371 chipsets 15:40:52 ahaha, forget about those specs, they are available only undre NDA :P 15:40:58 buh 15:41:00 almost all PC hardware is :( 15:41:12 What's that? 15:41:13 yup.. NDA :\ 15:41:14 exactly, that's why /me hates hardware manufacturers 15:41:15 NDA? 15:41:16 at least 3Com makes all their specs available :)) 15:41:25 rob_ert: Non Disclosure Agreement 15:41:26 Non-Disclosure Agreement 15:41:30 oink: too slow ;) 15:41:31 Hmm.. 15:41:34 eks: pfffff :) 15:41:40 Let's fuck all hardware vendors in the ass. 15:41:50 (Or at least don't buy their products :D) 15:41:51 (at least for ES1371) 15:41:55 rob_ert: you better put lots of lube, they have tight asses and there's many of them.. 15:42:39 heh 15:43:03 the only datasheet I've got for hardware made in the last 5 years is my copy of s3.txt 15:43:48 Hmm 15:43:50 pavlovskii: I got datasheets of VT82C686 southbridge used in my Athlon motherboard, specs of the latest network cards from 3Com, etc.. 15:44:00 --- part: lynx_busy left #osdev 15:44:00 I don't HAVE any hardware made in the last 5 years :((( 15:44:00 pavlovskii: I found quite a few super-IO chips datasheets too 15:44:08 heh, well done 15:44:13 eks, how did you get all of htat? 15:44:29 Contacts in the CIA? 15:44:29 if I want to program my sound card, I either have to reverse engineer the FreeBSD sources, or program it as a Sound Blaster 16 15:44:31 lar1: googling 15:44:38 Ah 15:44:48 took loads of time but it's worth it :P (better than reverse engineering) 15:45:01 --- join: jjsm (bush@200.241.177.57) joined #osdev 15:45:14 yeah, when I eventually found this S3 text file it was really useful 15:45:22 --- join: lodda (lodda@p508FD107.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 15:45:37 What stuff does your soundcard do beyond SB16? 15:45:49 that, and a Linux S3 Trio framebuffer driver I've got -- one of the few pieces of Linux kernel source I would have been proud to have written 15:46:04 * eks wished he had some NVidia chipset datasheet (not the texture controller asm, the pci api) 15:46:05 lar1: don't know, although I'd rather program it as a PCI device than ISA 15:46:11 Ah 15:46:15 hi folks 15:46:15 eks: hah! no chance 15:46:27 pavlovskii: I know.. I'd have to reverse engineer the X drivers :/ 15:46:49 ahh... X drivers are sometimes ofuscated 15:46:56 obfuscated 15:47:11 so that it makes it REALLY hard to reverse engineer 15:47:19 yes... I think the IOCCC web page now redirects to the XFree86 CVS repository 15:47:45 you might check the atheos src for some info tho :) 15:48:03 bad source code I've seen: (1) X (2) Windows CE (3) MS-DOS 6 15:48:10 :)) 15:48:15 well, Windows CE isn't that bad -- at least I could work out what was going on 15:48:42 pavlovskii: took me a while, but I was able to figure out the X protocol from the sources.. 15:49:03 heh... I could've given you a PDF on the X protocol 15:49:04 eks, how stable is fprem for x86 ? 15:49:08 and I think there's a book on it 15:49:20 eks, can it run NT ? 15:49:33 vxd1: lol, far from that, it cannot even execute its bios yes :p 15:49:36 s/yes/yet/ 15:49:41 Hehe :D 15:49:42 haha 15:49:55 it's really really stable 15:49:59 just a bit incomplete :P 15:50:09 so it can't run DOS yet eitther. 15:50:43 --- quit: Darkvise ("Client Exiting") 15:51:02 vxd1: no, I've been redesigning the decode/execution engine quite a few times so I don't have loads of instruction done 15:54:29 ahh 15:54:34 :) 15:55:33 win32 api's are killer.. I wrote this app last night that dumps an encrypted VB script out of memory... :)) 15:56:09 you can literally open up a process and read it's entire virtual memory region. 15:56:13 encrypted or encoded? 15:56:42 3rd party application encyrypted it with a public key algo... gets decrypted in ram. 15:58:08 pretty easy actually... you obviously have to be administrator on Nt/2k. 15:58:20 brb 15:59:06 --- quit: lodda () 15:59:25 --- quit: tirloni ("Reconnecting") 15:59:42 --- join: tirloni (gpt@200.203.159.59) joined #osdev 16:03:32 you can also insert your own message hooks into other processes using win32 api. u map your code into the process's address space and install the hook.. 16:04:00 Uhh 16:04:24 That sounds unstable 16:04:36 depends on your code :P 16:05:12 mrd_, so you WriteProcessMemory() it ? 16:05:17 no no 16:05:27 actually i dont remember :P 16:05:35 it's been awhile since i've looked at the code 16:05:37 vxd1: no, SetWindowsHook 16:05:49 pavlovskii, hrmm... u sure ? 16:05:54 it was a handy Win16 feature, and it was easier there because of the lack of protection 16:06:02 pavlovskii: X ? 16:06:11 oink: no, Windows 16:06:16 [00:47] < pavlovskii> bad source code I've seen: (1) X (2) Windows CE (3) MS-DOS 6 16:06:23 'X' ? 16:06:26 when they brought USER32 over to NT, they had to re-do the hook stuff, and now it injects your code into every process 16:06:30 oink: umm, XFree86 16:06:35 oh 16:06:37 oink: :þ 16:06:38 ok :) 16:06:51 --- quit: jjsm ("Omnia Sol Temperat") 16:06:52 oink: What did you think, mr pedanticboy? :) 16:07:08 rob_ert: I won't tell you, you'll think I'm a pervert. 16:07:30 j/k.. there're just more than 1 X11 servers around there :D 16:08:02 hey 16:08:07 server* 16:08:09 www.iki.fi/Pilkku/files/unik.jpg <- tell me what animal you think it is? 16:08:11 Jukka: ho ? 16:08:23 a rat. 16:08:30 oink: Like...? 16:09:02 Jukka: a rat who's just eaten a large sausage 16:09:25 Hum? 16:09:46 It's an oink, idiot! 16:09:56 --- join: moth (moth@slc741.modem.xmission.com) joined #osdev 16:10:10 No legs means it lives in front of the computer. 16:10:11 :) 16:10:33 rob_ert your real guess? 16:10:44 A dog? 16:10:55 A murr animal? 16:11:16 (A bear...) 16:16:38 Jukka: a wasapi 16:16:47 well 16:16:49 eks 16:17:06 scroll back and make guess whcih animal it is 16:17:16 Jukka: that was my guess... 16:17:40 oh 16:17:59 what animal is it? 16:18:00 that 16:18:21 definately a bear 16:19:20 have any of you read the FDC article on the os journal site? 16:19:31 or written a FDC driver 16:19:54 mrd_: yes and yes 16:20:21 does the code at the end of that article have bugs or am i missing something 16:20:56 the 2nd line of code, out 08h, al , where'd 08h come from? i dont see 08h listed as a dma port on any dma reference 16:21:07 shou#define PEEK_DLY 100 16:21:08 #define POKE_DLY 100 16:21:08 #define RESET_DLY 100 16:21:08 #define SBREG_MIX_ADR 0x04 16:21:08 #define SBREG_MIX_DATA 0x05 16:21:08 #define SBREG_RESET 0x06 16:21:10 #define SBREG_READ 0x0A 16:21:12 #define SBREG_WRITE 0x0C 16:21:14 #define SBREG_POLL 0x0E 16:21:16 #define SBCMD_PLAY 0x14 /* 8-bit DMA low-speed playback */ 16:21:18 #define SBCMD_SET_RATE 0x40 /* set sampling rate */ 16:21:20 #define SBCMD_SPKR_ON 0xD1 /* turn on speaker */ 16:21:22 #define SBCMD_SPKR_OFF 0xD3 /* turn OFF speaker */ 16:21:24 #define SBCMD_VERSION 0xE1 /* get DSP version */ 16:21:26 #define SBCMD_INTERRUPT 0xF2 /* generate an interrupts (for IRQ probe) */ 16:21:28 oop! 16:21:29 pavlovskii: ahhhhhhhhh! 16:21:30 s 16:21:32 ahem 16:21:32 spam!!! 16:21:44 * eks hits pavlovskii with a gong! 16:21:46 yes, I'm spamming the channel with Sound Blaster port definitions 16:21:50 hehe 16:21:59 * pavlovskii hits eks with all the Sound Blaster documentation he found 16:22:17 * eks probe pavlovskii for the url so the he can add it to his list 16:22:40 eks: do you want a URL to some SB docs? 16:22:58 mrd_: I'm lookup up the article now 16:22:59 * mrd_ visualizes eks at the helm of his ship, commanding 'send out a probe' lol ;x 16:23:06 ehehe, yeah, at least I can point ppl to my website for one more reason ;) 16:23:24 http://www.cyberscriptorium.com/osjournal/cgi-bin/index.pl?action=viewfile&file=9 16:24:27 and what's up with the carry/nocarry branch? is that necessary? 16:24:43 hrm.. good article 16:24:51 so 16:24:55 heeere are the results 16:24:58 what the animal was 16:25:01 a bear! 16:25:07 karhu(5), koira(3), orava(1), hiiri(2), rotta(3), siili(1), rotta joka on syönyt makkaran(2), karvainen nisäkäs (1), karhu jonka päälle rekka on ajanut(1), wasapi (1), hotdog (1), sausage (2) 16:25:14 i drawed it as bear 16:25:19 but the choises are 16:25:20 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-411.articuno.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 16:25:23 (i'll translate) 16:25:29 <_avlovskii> eks: http://developer.creative.com/scripts/DC_D&H_Games-Downloads.asp?opt=3 16:25:46 <_avlovskii> Creative Labs' "legacy documentation" i.e. Sound Blaster PDFs and samples 16:26:47 bear(5), dog(3), squirrel(1), mouse(2), rat(3), hedgehog(1), rat whcih have eaten sausage (2), hairy mammal(1), bear overdriven by truck(1), wasapi(1), hot dog (1), sausage (2) 16:26:51 sasage is makkara in finnish 16:26:54 thouhg 16:27:05 rob_ert: well.. I know OpenWindows, Metro-X, AcceleratedX .. some others exists 16:27:10 who the hell said squirrel? 16:27:12 XFree86 :D 16:27:32 oink: Bah... I haven't heard of them, soo... they don't count. 16:27:48 Anyway, you really spend too much time in the unix world, oink. 16:27:52 <_avlovskii> mrd_: I don't know what that DMA code is doing -- it's not like mine 16:27:57 You need a dose of summer :D 16:28:12 hm, maybe :D 16:28:54 it seems like half of the code is correct, and half of it is crazy whacked out like somebody on crack was playing with it 16:29:04 <_avlovskii> heh, maybe she was :) 16:29:28 see the carry/nocarry jmp? wtf izzat? 16:29:40 the whole point of adc is to add carry 16:29:56 instead she jmps to code that has adc if carry is set 16:30:01 hehe 16:30:22 Night all. 16:30:27 btw 16:30:30 Jukka: what's that ? 16:30:32 manpages ? 16:30:43 'squirrel' in section 1 ... :DDDD 16:30:50 the picture? 16:30:52 but it is still very useful, even with the lil bugs 16:30:55 what it supposed to be you mean? 16:31:00 ha, pictures.. ok :D 16:31:05 manpages 16:32:05 <_avlovskii> mrd_: when I re-wrote my fdc code I followed that page, except for the DMA stuff 16:32:16 <_avlovskii> that I copied from the driver at Chris Giese's site 16:32:59 ah. what's his site again? 16:34:56 <_avlovskii> http://www.execpc.com/~geezer/ 16:38:35 u guys dont mind if i spam for a sec do ya? i have a Q about this short function 16:38:36 /* sendbyte() routine from intel manual */ 16:38:36 void sendbyte(int byte) 16:38:36 { 16:38:36 volatile int msr; 16:38:36 int tmo; 16:38:40 for (tmo = 0;tmo < 128;tmo++) { 16:38:42 msr = inb(FDC_MSR); 16:38:42 --- join: alphakiller (~fernando@200211118241-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br) joined #osdev 16:38:44 if ((msr & 0xc0) == 0x80) { 16:38:46 outb(FDC_DATA,byte); 16:38:48 return; 16:38:50 } 16:38:52 inb(0x80); /* delay */ 16:38:54 } 16:38:56 } 16:38:58 it says "from intel manual" 16:39:03 what is the delay for? 16:39:33 <_avlovskii> I think it's supposed to allow the (slow) floppy drive controller chip to keep up with the (fast) CPU 16:39:54 so it trys 128 times with a read delay on each iteration 16:39:55 <_avlovskii> a read from the (non-existent) port 0x80 will delay for 1 (?) ISA bus cycle, which is ages 16:40:00 <_avlovskii> right 16:40:11 is this fdc specific, or are other devices like this 16:40:36 <_avlovskii> a lot of them are -- I've got delays similar to that (but working off the RTC) in my Sound Blaster cocde 16:40:41 --- quit: pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 16:40:48 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 16:41:11 crap -- I don't think my sound card supports Sound Blaster emulation :/ 16:42:40 im still a bit perplexed at how this works.. it performs a read on each iteration, until it returns expected data.. then it does 1 write and exits. are writes guaranteed to reach the device, whereas reads can fail? 16:43:07 does the successful read flag that the device is now up to cpu speed somehow? 16:43:45 i mean, if the read can fail, why can't the write? 16:43:56 it keeps polling the status register until the device is no longer busy, then writes the byte 16:44:01 oh 16:44:06 * mrd_ smacks himself and shuts up 16:45:44 do in/out always execute in the same # of cycles, or are they device speed specific 16:46:45 like can one device respond to an in slower than another, or is there a standard speed at which they must return data 16:46:48 they're more bus-specific than device-specific 16:47:10 --- join: lynx_busy (~lynx@p50809301.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 16:47:15 the ISA bus is very slow (5 MHz?), whereas PCI is relatively fast (tens of MHz) 16:47:18 ah ok. well isa is 8mhz, so on a 1ghz cpu that'd be a whole lotta clocks for io 16:47:24 right :) 16:48:10 I'm not sure whether the actual IN or OUT instructions are variable speed -- that would depend on the interaction between the CPU and the bus 16:48:14 i.e. don't worry about it :) 16:48:41 can an interrupt occur between when say an IN requests data and when it actually receives data? i know they occur on 'instruction boundaries' but it'd be really nice if we could task switch while waiting for a slow io 16:49:06 pavlovskii : i/o is usually on every machine as slow 16:49:15 pavlovskii many democoders use it for timing 16:49:22 no, the CPU's internal "Interrupt Pending" flag gets set and the interrupt is delivered once the I/O finishes 16:49:32 that stinks ;\ 16:49:38 pavlovskii : so the animation run on any machine with the same speed 16:50:17 why doesn't the cpu request the io and not modify any cpu state until it receives it, and kind of keep track of the pending io in a lil storage area, so we can do other things. that would rock 16:52:04 you mean, like being able to continue executing instructions while waiting for I/O? 16:52:09 you could install another CPU... 16:52:41 yeah, allow an interrupt to occur while an io is pending. just have the cpu pretend its at the instruction boundary preceding the io 16:52:58 even tho its secretly waiting for io :P 16:53:05 but the interrupt is coming from the bus anyway, so handling that will be just as slow 16:53:19 although (probably) from a faster bus than PCI 16:53:44 remember on the PC architecture you've got to do at least one port write (EOI to the PIC) per h/w interrupt 16:54:18 pavlovskii: wrong, you don't have to if you are in AutoEOI mode 16:54:20 well apics are on the cpu 16:54:29 so i'd imagine they'd respond a bit quicker right 16:55:01 mrd_: not really, super I/O chips (which have been used for some time now) are quite fast 16:55:37 eks: oh, OK 16:55:51 hmm. well it'd still beat waiting for an isa io 16:55:57 it's possible that you could do some more CPU-intensive processing in the meantime 16:56:13 but not on an x86 CPU (at least not without MP) 17:03:19 bah... sound blaster emulation doesn't work either 17:03:39 what do super I/O chips connect ? 17:04:32 mrd_: fdc, ide, pic, timer, rtc, cmos 17:04:45 some even have builtin pci, isa controllers 17:06:37 are those devices designed specifically to be connected to the super I/O? 17:06:56 the super i/o chip provide those devices... 17:07:07 instead of having 6 or 7 chips on your board you have 1 17:07:14 oh it incorporates them? wow 17:07:20 really is a super I/O chip :) 17:07:28 ehehe 17:07:59 but does a super I/O chip add anything special to the software programmer? 17:08:24 Rico: nothing that you couldn't have using multiple chips 17:08:56 the main difference is for the hw engineer, who saves a hell of alot of design and headaches 17:09:11 true 17:09:15 it also saves alot of space on the board to put ohter types of controller (usb, firewire, etc..) 17:09:32 if you want to connect almost 400 pins of one chip, it's much easier :) 17:10:04 why don't they build in usb and firewire into the super I/O chip? 17:11:18 it is connected to the PCI bus, isn't it? 17:11:36 Rico: 352pins on my VT82C686 southbridge super I/o chip in my comp :P 17:11:49 my guess is cost.. they only provide the necessary devices, so they can be used on any mb 17:11:52 yeah, mine got a builtin pci controller 17:11:57 hehe, I have the docs on that one now :) 17:12:33 isn't usb a default thingy on todays comps? 17:12:57 do super I/O chips come with cooling? 17:13:20 Rico: never saw a superio with cooling, but they do have a heatsink 17:13:25 at least the latest ones have 17:13:26 does the documentation for a super i/o chip provide anything from a programmer's perspective? aren't all those devices accessed the same way as separate chips? 17:13:42 mrd_: yeah, they are accessed the same way 17:13:45 --- join: tenzin (xtofu@p222-tnt3.mel.ihug.com.au) joined #osdev 17:14:04 but the super io chip doc I have provide nice information about the pci controller, the memory controller and some other chips rarely documented 17:24:31 i just downloaded the intel 82801BA IO Controller Hub pdf, lots of device programming info :D very nice 17:24:47 --- quit: moth (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: Moth_conio!ircap7@213-98-35-206.uc.nombres.ttd.es))) 17:25:00 --- join: moth_ (moth@slc741.modem.xmission.com) joined #osdev 17:25:05 mrd_: :) 17:30:51 woohoo! I've found a BeOS driver for the AudioPCI ES137x! 17:30:59 good 17:31:01 for you.. 17:31:18 and it comes with source 17:31:38 pavlovskii: nice :) 17:32:28 btw, www.bebits.com is sometimes good for these things 17:32:41 although not everything necessarily comes with source code 17:34:01 --- quit: Jukka ("good night, goign to sleep") 17:34:49 this one is full of nice functions like "voidhw_set_playback_buffer(uint32 physical_address, uint32 size)" and "void hw_start_playback(void)" 17:37:55 :) 17:38:54 good night everyone :) 17:39:53 night oink 17:47:35 --- join: nothing (morton@AC9CF076.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 17:47:39 *sigh* 17:47:50 damn irssi backdoor 17:48:31 --- part: nothing left #osdev 17:48:40 lol@notihng 17:51:25 --- join: nothing (morton@AC9CF076.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 17:51:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o eks 17:51:48 i'm only on aol because my computers are out of order until i reinstall all OSes 17:51:54 --- mode: eks set -q *alphakiller*!*@* 17:51:56 i'm using a friend's computer 17:51:58 heh 17:52:22 i think i have a new sense of mistrust for software distribution 17:52:33 at least i discovered the cause of the "random reboot" on my freebsd macine 17:52:41 lolol 17:52:45 i downloaded irssi 0.8.4 May 12, at night 17:52:54 probably ran configure, make install then 17:52:58 the day after,] 17:53:00 random reboot 17:53:11 i was so pissed i just left the machine off, and started using my Sun to irc 17:53:20 thankfully, they probably didn't do much to my fbsd machine 17:53:34 i found in some logs though 17:53:35 on the sun 17:53:40 they were monitoring the net connection and shit 17:53:57 ehehe 17:53:59 and there seem to have been some DoS attacks launched from my machine 17:54:01 during the night 17:54:09 sweet >:} 17:54:15 how's that sweet?! 17:54:19 they abused my computer!#!$! 17:54:22 well.. it's hackerish... 17:54:26 ... 17:54:31 :P 17:54:40 --- join: byron (~Tristania@200.210.57.70) joined #osdev 17:54:44 all this time i thought irssi was such a secure client 17:54:45 probably air who installed the backdoor.. 17:54:50 haha 17:54:50 he hates irssi with a passion ;) 17:54:51 anyway 17:54:57 he's going to be like "told you so" 17:55:14 i was looking at the configure file that was backdoored 17:55:20 it seems pretty amateur 17:55:24 i mean, they could have done much worse 17:55:37 they didn't even bother to backdoor the .bz2 release file 17:55:39 or the cvs 17:56:29 * eks always uses the cvs releases :) 17:56:55 maybe i should actually pay attention to md5/gpg signatures now 17:56:56 heh 17:57:10 * nothing promises not to install anything on any machine unless the signature checks out from now on 17:58:11 nothing: wanna try my emulator on your box? >:} 17:58:23 heh 17:58:24 --- quit: byron ("http://demented.host.sk") 18:01:52 --- join: miro (miro@staff.opn) joined #osdev 18:02:03 hi 18:02:16 hi miro 18:02:16 %*alphakiller*!*@* .. 18:02:21 eks: hold on 18:02:34 just tell me how :p 18:02:55 eks: did you try /mode #osdev -b %*alphakiller*!*@* ? 18:03:04 yeah :( 18:03:17 and that won't work!? 18:03:25 well.. not from my client :/ 18:03:43 hrm 18:04:29 eks: i don't even see that ban!? 18:04:39 huh?? 18:04:42 could be a client issue? 18:04:49 gimme a sec.. 18:04:51 --- quit: eks ("brb") 18:04:59 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 18:05:21 hrm.. 18:05:27 what client are you using? 18:05:34 miro: k, thx, I'll join #irssi and complain :p 18:05:34 irssi, the hax0r's choice 18:05:40 ;P 18:05:47 irssi, aka r00tssi 18:05:53 nothing: only you my friend :P 18:06:04 ;( 18:06:07 * eks has been safe all along :) 18:06:14 i can't help it if i am too lazy to use CVS 18:06:35 so what's this chann about? ;P 18:07:01 --- nick: Zenton__ -> Zenton 18:07:27 hi all 18:07:57 miro: lol 18:08:09 miro: not obvious enough ? :P 18:08:11 jaja ;D 18:08:19 miro: thx for your help :) 18:08:27 np 18:08:50 lynx just messaged me that he is stoned ... 18:09:04 right on lynx 18:09:19 heh 18:09:37 miro =) 18:09:42 xD 18:09:47 lynx buys only the highest quality weed ;) 18:10:14 * eks is sure lynx tried smoking banana peals :p 18:10:45 ugh 18:10:58 eks : uhrm 18:11:03 lynx 18:11:04 eks : i wouldnt be sure about that 18:11:06 ;) 18:11:09 did you insert that irssi backdoor? 18:11:22 ^*_*^ no 18:11:27 nothing: lol, you overestimate him :p 18:12:01 lynx_busy: what are you busy with? 18:12:08 miro : heh 18:12:21 nothing: don't you find it strange your client was affected but not mine? ;) 18:12:22 eks : bah 18:12:38 nothing : i hxkquored you 18:12:56 miro: lynx had his nick like "lynx_smoking_weed" but ppl where saying "bah" to him... so he changed it to "lynx_busy".. 18:13:06 pfff 18:13:28 * eks inserted nothing's backdoor ;) 18:14:07 eks : that was a friend@ my home 18:14:16 xen was here , too 18:14:31 lynx_busy: :p 18:14:32 heh 18:14:40 lynx = ^*_*^ 18:16:32 --- quit: tenzin (No route to host) 18:17:16 nothing : i am saddam`s evil twin :) 18:17:47 nothing : my state now is ^-_-^ 18:17:52 heh 18:18:04 lynx->state = sleepy; 18:18:11 oh 18:18:27 since this is osdev! can someone fix a linux soundcard driver? ;P 18:18:27 lynx->prev->state = high; 18:18:46 heh 18:18:52 nothing : you want some ? 18:19:11 yes 18:19:15 dcc send plz 18:19:32 lynx_busy: btw, do you use a) a pipe b) joint or c) bong? 18:19:51 miro: what's wrong with your sound? 18:20:09 eks: the subwoofer out doesn't work right! 18:20:13 nothing: none, he chews it ;) 18:20:21 eks: it's to quiet! 18:20:22 joint if i have to walk around 18:20:28 miro!!! =D 18:20:31 * Rico pets miro 18:20:40 * miro humps Rico 18:20:51 bong if i have a place to site 18:20:52 * eks feels the #uuu days so close to him... ;) 18:20:53 heh 18:20:56 * Rico enjoys it 18:21:00 eks:? 18:21:02 lol 18:21:03 nothing : a bong 18:21:12 nothing: Rico, lynx and miro in the same chan... *sigh* 18:21:12 is miro from #UUU? 18:21:17 eks: you have time to fix it? ;P 18:21:18 nothing: yeah :p 18:21:21 nothing yeah 18:21:23 interesting 18:21:31 you need to get Raptor-32 and indigo in here 18:21:35 lol 18:21:44 indigo already comes by himself 18:21:46 hrmpf... 18:21:46 raptor-32 No such nick/channel 18:21:55 looks like the raptor flew away 18:21:58 raptor-32 won't come in here 18:22:09 he will eat all of us! 18:22:10 does he have something against this chan? 18:22:13 AAAHAAHHH!!!!! 18:22:25 nothing: not the "chan", but some ppl in it 18:22:31 me? 18:22:37 eks: me, right? :P 18:22:37 nothing: he had some argument with air about Uuu vs BRiX ehehe.. 18:22:39 eksi? 18:22:43 lol 18:22:45 good old air 18:22:48 yeah 18:22:54 scaring away people, he's the #osdev guarddog 18:23:12 ;) 18:23:12 eks: someone had an *argument*... with *air*?! 18:23:23 pavlovskii: lol, never seen that myself, you? ;) 18:23:32 eks, do you have any experience with GPG key signings and such? 18:23:35 eksi: make it work? k? 18:23:41 eks: no, completely out of character... strange :$ 18:23:47 miro: ehehe, nah, I'm not qualified for the job :p 18:23:54 damn 18:23:57 pavlovskii: ehehe >:} 18:23:59 yes you are ;D 18:24:01 nothing: no 18:24:10 miro: unqualified? sure am :p 18:24:25 eks: no you are uberqualified! 18:24:26 Well, I'm off to play some GTA 3 again 18:24:31 it's a funny game :D 18:24:34 l8r Rico 18:24:37 bye 18:24:38 rico 18:24:38 bye Rico 18:24:42 run over some cops 18:24:44 for me 18:24:50 =) 18:25:08 should I get myself haunted by a helicopter? 18:25:17 lol 18:27:02 nothing : moo 18:27:13 eksi eksi eksi 18:27:22 i think i will play some wind0ze games and then go to bed 18:27:26 fsck this computer crap 18:27:40 --- quit: nothing () 18:28:08 heh 18:28:09 miro: seriously, I never dug into that part of linux 18:28:21 some ppl do easily overreact... 18:28:35 eks: it's about time ;P 18:28:44 ehehe 18:28:57 miro: don't try, I won't be your bitch tonight 18:29:06 the card is well documented too ;) 18:29:10 I'm reserved to make love to lynx! 18:29:16 pfff 18:29:23 he is stoned 18:29:34 ehhe, he won't feel that I'm coming by behind then ;) 18:29:39 lol 18:29:54 is it gay night or something? ;D 18:30:02 miro: ehehe 18:30:27 hrm i already humped Rico ... 18:31:22 still have that annoying default slap button? 18:31:39 eks =))) 18:31:50 eks : i am "open" for "everything" 18:31:51 eks: no ;/ 18:32:03 but i have nice kline, clone, etc buttons ;PP 18:32:22 miro: huhuh.. 18:32:35 muahahahaha 18:32:43 geez 18:32:46 ahah, you are using xchat now :) 18:32:57 i want that fn driver fixed 18:33:06 yeah 18:33:07 miro: which soundcard is it? 18:33:19 it's a cmi3787 or something like that 18:33:32 the author stoped on it a year ago 18:33:56 i mean it works but the quality of center and bass sucks 18:34:11 I doubt I could come up with a patch in less than 8 hours of work 18:34:29 and since I don't have the card to test, it's pretty hard to fix :/ 18:34:33 its a cmi 8738 ;) 18:35:02 maybe i should take a look on it myself ;P 18:35:32 yeah yeah! 18:35:36 fix it miro! fix it! 18:35:36 hehe 18:35:47 requires a lot to read ;P 18:35:49 --- quit: moth_ (Remote closed the connection) 18:35:53 same for me :p 18:36:16 well i need to read more coding wise ;P 18:36:29 c'mon, it's all in C.. 18:36:42 OMG 18:36:46 hey file! 18:36:52 *grml* 18:36:56 THAT WAS FUN 18:37:01 w00t! 18:37:04 was it? 18:37:08 I'm so happy 18:37:14 :) 18:37:16 ehehe, so you like Quebec City? 18:37:21 yes 18:37:22 :)) 18:37:25 it's amazing 18:37:25 --- quit: alphakiller ("(I was using  P o l a r i s · O n e  v4.02) Webpage:(http://www.polarisone.hpg.com.br/) Wasted:(50") 18:37:31 :) 18:37:33 I danced too :) 18:37:36 ahaha 18:37:40 file dancing.. .lol 18:37:49 what did you do out there? 18:37:58 visited places 18:38:01 ate food 18:38:01 saw some chicks? 18:38:08 oh on the boat? 18:38:12 more than you know... 18:38:17 ehehe 18:38:26 nah, I know how many chicks there can be in Quebec :p 18:38:40 hahahahaha 18:38:47 haha 18:38:56 * eks hates the Winnipeg chicks :/ 18:39:10 Old Quebec was fun 18:39:25 yeah, small streets, loads of small boutiques, full of ppl :) 18:39:32 darn right 18:39:44 I walked up to the fort too, by Chateau Frontenac 18:39:52 :) 18:40:07 the hotel was interesting 18:40:09 --- nick: file[Quebec] -> file 18:40:27 --- quit: Aardappel ("http://wouter.fov120.com/") 18:40:34 file: ever went to Montreal? 18:40:37 no 18:40:48 twice as many chicks :P 18:40:53 hehe 18:41:01 * lynx_busy pets eks 18:41:02 omg 18:41:05 123 new messages 18:41:10 ahaha 18:41:17 * lynx_busy gives eks his monthly dose of love 18:41:27 OpenBSD onee.yi.org 3.0 GENERIC#55 alpha 18:41:27 8:12PM up 33 days, 13:13, 1 user, load averages: 1.22, 0.47, 0.31 18:44:12 --- quit: pavlovskii (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:45:05 --- join: miro_ (miro@staff.opn) joined #osdev 18:46:08 --- quit: miro_ (Remote closed the connection) 18:50:04 anyone know what int 1A is default handler for (if it is a default handler for somethin?) 18:50:23 ooops int 1Ch rather 18:50:52 mrd_: under dos or brute os ? 18:51:12 under no os :P 18:51:18 is there a timer that uses it? 18:51:35 TIME - SYSTEM TIMER TICK 18:51:54 no idea if it's used or not, but that's what it is supposed to be... 18:52:10 system timer? as in.. rtc? pit? 18:52:12 Desc: This interrupt is automatically called on each clock tick by the INT 08 handler 18:52:25 is that under dos? 18:52:33 no, bios AFAIK 18:52:47 Notes: This is the preferred interrupt to chain when a program needs to be invoked regularly. Not available on NEC 9800-series PCs 18:53:17 the note about the NEC 9800 series confirms to me that this is a BIOS thing, not dos 18:53:30 wait so PIT calls int 8, which calls int 1C? 18:53:40 so the bios installs int 8 to call int 1c then 18:54:05 that's pretty nasty :P 18:54:47 the bios handles everything internally from within int 8 18:54:57 what do you mean 18:55:03 but it calls int 1C every tick in case an os wants to get the timer hooked 18:55:22 gn all 18:55:29 so you don't have to hook int 8 and call the original int 8 handler 18:55:30 gn Zenton 18:55:31 hurmm 18:55:46 before going to bed, a question 18:55:55 so i shouldn't install my own int 8? will the original work in pmode? 18:55:57 where can i get info on ide devices? 18:56:27 i.e. for simulating a hard disk 18:56:42 zenton: maybe http://www.nondot.org/sabre/os 18:56:52 thnks mrd_ ;) 18:57:23 mrd_: the original int8 will work in pmode until you reload the IDT 18:57:34 ah of course 18:57:36 once you reload the IDT you have to install your own handlr 18:58:02 i dont need to worry about calling the original handler do i 18:58:41 it won't affect my clock.. 18:58:42 --- nick: Zenton -> ZzZ_enton 18:59:02 mrd_: no, you don't need to worry about that 18:59:08 that's why int 1C was created 18:59:15 so you don't have to worry 18:59:43 yes but i have no use for that use of 1C with my own IDT 19:00:30 if you are switching to pmode and making your own os, please reconfigure the PIC to use interrupts > 0x20 19:00:41 all interrupts below 0x20 are reserved for the cpu exceptions 19:00:48 man this is becoming a pain lol. starting out writing an os, at least for me, is slow as shizzzzzle 19:00:54 whoever made the original bioses were darn freakin' st00pid 19:02:10 w00t 2.5.18 is out! 19:02:27 --- quit: miro (Success) 19:03:26 i want to write a memory manager, so i can load executables into their own space and stuff, but first i want to be able to load executables, so i need a floppy driver to load the files, and writing the floppy driver properly needs a timer, and i need the timer to be shared, so now i have to figure out how i want the timer to operate globally and implement that before i finish the floppy driver so i can finish the mm so i can have the be 19:04:12 * mrd_ passes out 19:04:58 ahahaha 19:05:06 yeah, osdev can be painful at first 19:05:26 took me a couple of tries before knowing the proper order to start developing 19:11:40 --- join: miro (miro@staff.opn) joined #osdev 19:11:45 rrrreee 19:11:50 wb miro 19:12:12 thx 19:12:17 (under win) 19:13:11 hrm... 19:13:23 i want fn full sound :) 19:13:25 I hope you don't expect me to give you a hug for this 19:13:51 of yourse i do 19:13:54 course 19:14:23 * eks uncompress and configures his 2.5.18 kernel :) 19:14:39 hehe 19:14:50 FIX CMIPCI.C 19:15:01 in drivers/sound/ :) 19:15:27 not the alsa one cause that one totally sucks 19:15:28 send me your soundcard and I will 19:15:50 ehehe 19:15:59 buy it! 19:16:04 it's a cheap card 19:16:08 * mrd_ bids 39 cents 19:16:11 30 usd 19:16:21 * eks bids 40 cents 19:16:37 * mrd_ bids 50 whopping cents 19:16:53 * eks doesn't follow, too poor 19:17:09 ;D 19:20:17 --- quit: miro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:23:15 --- join: miro (miro@staff.opn) joined #osdev 19:25:32 what's a good base frequency for the timer.. 1024hz? is that too slow? im not sure how accurate timing some devices will require. the most demanding i can think will be the sound card. i dont know crud about sound yet tho. 19:25:48 200Hz is good 19:25:57 200Hz?! 19:25:59 wow 19:26:02 but I suggest not having a set rate, but computing it 19:26:08 the default timer is 18.2 19:26:15 demand timing ? :P 19:26:18 so setting it to 200Hz should be good for most applications 19:26:32 yes, you could dynamically recompute the time until next interrupt 19:26:34 eks: Q - What's Desjardins? 19:27:04 file: it's a family name, they started a kindof "caisse populaire" (or bank) years ago 19:27:19 omg, how in the world did you know that? 19:27:19 uh huh 19:27:23 the diff with a regular bank is that members get back some of the profits they make 19:27:27 Damn, I'm just driving through the streets and I'm being shot everywhere! 19:27:33 Damn gangsters! 19:27:33 I noticed it everywhere 19:27:47 file: yes, it's very present :P 19:28:06 and Ashtons? 19:28:19 they have Caisse Populaire Desjardins institutions all over the world now, even in Japan and China 19:28:21 * Rico pets miro again 19:28:59 not here 19:29:06 Ashtons was a nice place, I grabbed a bite to eat there 19:29:17 Rico: not here either... in New Brunswick 19:29:48 new brunswick? that sounds familiar. where is that? 19:29:53 mrd_: Canada 19:29:55 it's in Canada 19:29:57 east coast 19:29:58 it's a province 19:30:02 ah cool beans 19:31:01 I'm glad to be home 19:31:18 im not ;\ i need OUT! 19:31:41 i've been livin here toooo long 19:32:45 well I need to go sleep 19:33:09 yeah i've been sleeping too much too ;x 19:33:24 1/3rd of your life in bed is too much 19:36:09 like 3 hours a day, 1/8th, sounds reasonable. but i dont know how well anyone can function with that amount of sleep 19:36:28 --- join: jace48 (~jace48@203.195.175.54) joined #osdev 19:36:34 hey jace48 19:36:49 Hi eks 19:37:11 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust197.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 19:37:15 mrd_: tried that, and to be honest, I like the 1/3rd much more :) 19:37:48 yea me too. maybe one day we'll be genetically engineered to like 1/8th 19:38:01 not me... 19:38:30 I want to spend my time in bed, sharing it with someone else =) 19:39:07 yes that does sound good now that u mention it :) 19:40:26 * jace48 is wondering what others are talking about? 19:41:00 hrm.. I thought there was XFS support in the kernel.. 19:41:18 --- join: cchung (~peter@61-217-216-238.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #osdev 19:56:14 anyone know why broadband isps (like comcast) limit upload bandwidth far more than download bandwidth? 19:57:54 Upload eats more bandwidth than download 19:58:01 comcast upload = ~120kbps, download = ~1200kbps 19:58:09 how does it eat more bandwidth? 19:58:46 Ever tried uploading a heacy file and surfing websites? 19:58:54 *heavy 19:59:26 the closer i get to my bandwidth limits, up or down, the slower it becomes 19:59:34 the slower the response time 20:01:07 If yuo have a single pipe for both upload and download then the upload globally affects the total bandwidth since all modems have low upload speed and more download 20:01:39 For example if you have 56k modem it has 56k download but only 33.6 download 20:02:54 Creeping bandwidth due to download is coz your ISP has set a maximum transfer rate for that account most ISP set it to 6k max 20:03:08 well i know its comcast putting a cap on my up & down speeds.. when i first got it installed there was no cap, and i was flying. i could upload to my buddy, also on comcast's network, at about 4mbps 20:03:16 Even if you use download accelerator you cannot cross that speed. 20:03:54 The ISP has to play fair with everybody 20:04:07 It cannot slow you to slow the bandwidth 20:04:14 bandwidth should be free 20:04:24 public libraries are free 20:04:27 why not the net? 20:04:53 Info on net is free not the bandwith 20:05:14 yes but why. its only electricity, and some maintenance 20:05:20 ISP are charged on the amount of Bandwidth thy consume 20:05:27 it's not like every GB u use actually degrades the hardware 20:05:53 Since maintaning the effeciency for that pipe cost them a lot 20:06:42 And the bread and butter of the system admin? 20:08:14 i dunno. i have a tendency to view anything computer related as evil. i know all sorts of crazy crud about computers, heck im here aren't i, yet i friggin stock food at a supermarket. im dirt broke and spend all my time trying to do something worth something on the computer to get me somewhere and im still here. so therefore computers are evil and it should all be freee. ;\ 20:08:35 free i tell you freeee 20:09:53 May be you will releize this later all profession are evil 20:09:59 World is a evil place 20:10:17 no no. there's always janitors. they're not evil hehe. they just smell funny 20:10:42 Well I dont say this Ethic says 20:11:05 You cannot blame your profession if you are not capable enough to exce in it 20:11:11 *excel 20:11:22 well if i'd chosen an easier profession i'd probably have a career by now. instead im nowhere. computers = evil 20:12:16 i say eks starts designing motherboards and we can manufacture them & get rich 20:12:34 No profession is eaiser it is you that cannot make use of resource 20:12:53 i have made use of the resources 20:12:58 but not in a good way 20:13:04 and whenever i try a good way, well i get nowhere 20:13:09 so they're still evil 20:13:33 No comments ..... I don't wanna get into debate 20:13:35 hehe 20:13:42 sorry im just trying to keep a conversation going 20:13:48 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:14:32 I would say in everything and every profession is takes time... if you are impatinent you are loser 20:14:49 i have some cool ideas but eh doesn't everyone? being able to implement your ideas is what decides your fate 20:15:48 Cooler ideas probably already exsist you are born late 20:16:05 lol is that a quotable one :P 20:16:26 there's always cooler ideas. the only ideas that matter are the ones brought to life 20:16:38 the others just rot in peoples minds and fade away 20:17:31 Bringing you idea into play is an lognterm vision and lotsa patience..... the harddes work you will ever do 20:17:45 Again true for all profession 20:18:37 i mean look at windows. with all the friggin resources microsoft has at their disposal, theres a ton of things windows could be doin. but it aint. that's a driving force not just in os development but any software development. software is still in its infancy, it's only been mainstream for 10 years, there's mad people out there with mad ideas and they're all bustin they're ass trying to bring 'em to life. the standard's going higher & h 20:19:21 and soon enough it'll be so high that only an elite few with massive egos are going to take on the pilgrimage of software development 20:19:43 everyone else will be zombified by what's already out there 20:20:37 Windows fails not becuase developer are weak there but the large is the management system more there is a communication problem. I should congragulate Bill on how does he manages this and brings his vision on play 20:21:26 Bill knew how to make maximum use of the resource and that is the reason why he even left IBM behind 20:22:24 yea. lately resources have been boomin, either that or maybe i just think that because im only now learning the massive resources that are available. 3d cards are going to revolutionize os guis 20:22:32 As you can see IBM has PC-DOS and OS/2 but who won M$ 20:22:54 not even for an actual 3-d desktop, but just in the amount of cute lil effects ms could throw into windows to make people fall in love with it 20:23:25 M$ won cox it did not target techie where Linux failed 20:25:21 If you see most compaines did fail coz they had resource but could not deploy it 20:25:34 I should say Mis management 20:26:38 yeah well i tend to ignore the word management throughout my life. it's a word i rather not think about 20:27:15 It's a true fact you cannot ingnore it you can run but cannot hide 20:27:39 being in management is like the perfect job, u just tell people what to do and as long as u know wtf u're doin you're set. 20:27:50 and of course, u have the right people 20:27:55 It's not a easy task 20:27:57 but it's not hard to find the right people 20:28:37 Finding a right people on time and getting the job done and also if the techie runs aways still getting the job doen is managers job 20:29:06 It's more though 20:29:46 Take a example you design a MB and develop it but cannot do a sale management coz you are techie 20:30:05 But if the manager is not capable also then your idea goes for Doom 20:30:39 damn if the techie runs away. i'd be happy just to see an opportunity show its face, let alone get the job. and run away? bah that's a joke. wtf would u run for? i've never worked with any serious programmers IRL, or even had a conversation with one. the closest IRL is programming classes where everyone knows jack. and online is complete crap b/c people just ignore u like u're not there half the time. it's not like IRL where u can just 20:31:36 Techies always have a hidden life 20:31:57 if you prefer pomp and show of work then be a damager 20:32:02 ooops manager 20:32:43 Tell me how many people knows the the orginal kernel coder of Windog or Beos 20:32:46 i think that's one of the driving forces that cause me to lose my patience. no jobs, no people. its as if programming doesn't exist IRL outside of this frigging computer screen! that's exactly it! programming does not exist in the world i walk around & breathe in every day. its only on this friggin evil bastard computer!! ;\ 20:33:07 hehe 20:33:12 * mrd_ growls at the computer 20:34:28 i'd be happy just to know *any* coder irl 20:34:32 Jus have patience -- wait and watch-- 20:35:04 Even having 13 years of hardcore coding expreince I started my carrier in Call center 20:35:20 And walked my way through the place I wanted 20:36:02 Even though I donot work for M$ or any other big shot I am a lot happier person now 20:38:08 maybe i should just stop wasting my time trying to write an OS. maybe i should try making some windows database apps. i bet i can get a job with some of those under my belt. 20:40:02 yeah 20:40:22 well im going to shut up now as it seems everyone else has 20:40:40 * mrd_ goes to puff a sweet swisher 20:41:01 For good 20:42:21 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 20:47:33 --- quit: mrd_ ("http://mrd.knows.it") 21:00:28 --- quit: Shenka () 21:00:41 --- join: _Protean_ (Protean@24.25.166.30) joined #osdev 21:01:50 --- part: eks left #osdev 21:10:44 Hey does any body know a good scratch mixing software for Windows? 21:12:54 --- nick: lynx_busy -> lynx_Zzz 21:14:27 --- join: nbsp (g@ip68-14-60-7.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 21:23:54 * jace48 yawns 21:24:43 --- quit: _Protean_ () 21:25:01 --- join: _Protean_ (Protean@24.25.166.30) joined #osdev 21:33:52 bbl 21:33:54 bye all 21:35:42 --- quit: jace48 ("Huh?") 21:49:45 --- quit: _Protean_ () 21:54:25 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 21:55:38 --- part: witten left #osdev 22:35:37 --- quit: banned-it (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:36:33 --- join: osmaker (~Bersirc@evrtwa1-ar13-4-62-065-133.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 22:53:32 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:02:44 --- join: geist (~geist@tkgeisel.com) joined #osdev 23:02:54 * geist looks in 23:06:13 hi geist 23:08:27 howdy 23:08:39 anything interesting been going on here? 23:09:04 not since I cam in... (about 25 mins ago) 23:09:08 came* 23:11:22 ah, I havent' been around the last week, looks like the same old stuff 23:11:28 though I see quite a few new faces 23:17:44 --- quit: tirloni ("The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming dragon.") 23:32:23 --- join: lodda (lodda@p508FF6BD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 23:32:39 hi 23:35:03 hi lodda 23:35:13 * osmaker yawns and heads off to bed 23:35:19 see ya all later 23:35:20 --- part: osmaker left #osdev 23:39:53 --- quit: lodda () 23:46:52 --- quit: nbsp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:46:54 --- join: dsqu (g@ip68-14-60-7.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 23:56:10 --- join: trans (~trans@a2a02274.intergate.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.05.25