00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.08.09 00:07:12 --- join: trans (~trans@00-20-78-c9-e5-d1.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 00:19:30 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-65-191-44-105.telocity.com) joined #osdev 00:39:42 * geist checks out the stats on bespin.org/~qz/irc 00:39:44 pretty cool 00:58:38 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:12:50 --- join: fd0man (fd0man@main-a-60.dialins.utoledo.edu) joined #osdev 01:14:45 Does there happen to be anyone in here that is awake? :) 01:22:12 --- part: fd0man left #osdev 01:25:14 --- join: eirikn (eirik@ipv6.eirikn.net) joined #osdev 01:48:46 HMM 01:48:51 too late 01:57:35 --- join: nao (~nicolas@212.234.185.253) joined #osdev 01:57:47 hi! 01:58:18 some1 alive ? 02:03:16 yeah 02:04:45 are you the guy who make newos ??? 02:06:35 yes 02:06:45 where'd you hear that? 02:07:33 well I am a great fan of os-developement and of beos so ... 02:07:43 just found your site ... 02:08:41 And after I saw that openbeos use a fork of your kernel ... 02:09:14 .. and I'm working on my own micro-kernel ... 02:11:46 this channel is really not active ... weird ... 02:12:07 Oh! by the way sorry for my english : I'm french .. :D 02:16:08 it's 2am here in US 02:16:17 2am pacific 02:16:26 so it's 5am on the east coast 02:16:32 lots of folks here are in the US 02:17:09 in fact, I'm going to sleep. talk to ya later! 02:17:13 --- nick: geist -> geist-sleep 02:20:02 --- join: trans (~trans@00-20-78-c9-e5-d1.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 02:48:03 --- quit: izik ("Client Exiting") 02:54:07 --- join: berkus (~berkus@kraft.skbkontur.ru) joined #osdev 02:57:28 morning 02:58:30 mornig ??? 02:58:38 Fri Aug 9 11:58:23 CEST 2002 02:58:44 CEST = UTC+2 02:58:47 from france ? 02:58:51 ya 02:58:59 cool c fais plaisdir !!!! :D 02:59:05 :) 02:59:12 putain j'arrive meme plus a ecrire ... :)) 02:59:19 :)) 02:59:28 c la premiere fois que je viens sur ce channel ... 02:59:43 tout a l'heure j'avais le mec qui ecrit newos .. 02:59:46 j'ai remarque :) 03:00:19 ya pas que lui ici, on a tous quasiment bosse sur notre OS.. 03:00:23 et toi tu developpes je suppose ??? 03:00:28 (sauf moi, j'ai pas le temps encore :) 03:00:33 oui :) 03:00:38 :)) c cool !!! 03:00:46 moi j'ai commence le mien ... ;) 03:00:50 cool :) 03:00:51 www.nao-system.org 03:01:10 la page est toute pourris mais pour l'instant je bosse sur le noyau ... 03:02:40 :> 03:05:21 et le kurt que je vois c pas le mec qui fais atheos ??? 03:05:30 faisais je devrai dire ... 03:06:06 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:06:20 p-e :) 03:06:30 je pense pas quand meme 03:07:05 tu bosses ?? 03:07:54 la ouais, mais sur un projet qu'a rien a voir avec de l'osdev 03:08:39 :D 03:08:46 boulot boulot ... tu bosses ou ? 03:09:04 nan pas de job encore, j'etudie :) 03:11:15 tu fais quoi comme etude ? 03:12:00 encore au lycee, par correspondance 03:12:17 oki ... 03:12:53 vaux mieux arretter de parler francais, c'est un peu impolie :) 03:15:07 oui mais y'a personne !!! 03:15:13 il est 2 heures la bas ... 03:15:19 c geist qui m'a dit .. 03:15:19 'la bas' ? 03:15:25 ya des europeens aussi :) 03:15:37 Is there is some1 here ??? 03:15:47 European ? 03:15:59 /ctcp #osdev time :) 03:16:15 --- nick: nao -> nao-out-to-launc 04:02:19 moo 04:02:42 YAY! 04:02:51 EVERYONE LOOK AT SEMPITERNITY.ORG! 04:02:52 w00T! 04:03:26 hi all 04:03:30 gah... 04:03:34 but but... 04:04:10 it's all wrong! 04:04:53 gandi is the SOA and i'm not, and gandi doesn't have it in their DNS yet! 04:06:40 $*(#)($#@ 04:07:15 can anyone lookup sempiternity.org? 04:07:57 haha 04:08:01 you loose :P 04:08:21 no? 04:08:25 grRrrRrRrr! 04:08:25 yes, 04:08:25 now you'll have to wait another 24Hrs for my DNS to flush their cache :> 04:08:27 :P 04:08:47 what's the SOA? 04:09:03 sempiternity.org does not exist (Authoritative answer) 04:09:03 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 04:09:04 :P 04:09:13 herm... 04:09:16 hej eks 04:09:40 a.gtld-servers.net knows who i am... 04:09:42 hey :) 04:09:49 sweet 04:09:53 eks: can you dns sempiternity.org? 04:10:24 ;; QUESTION SECTION: 04:10:24 ;sempiternity.org. IN A 04:10:29 sempiternity.org doesn't seem to exist at gandi.net 04:10:38 ;sempiternity.org. IN A 04:10:47 * indigo punches gandi 04:10:54 I should be the SOA! 04:10:55 well at least, on ns4.gandi :> 04:10:57 gah! 04:11:16 it says ns6.gandi.net is SOA here 04:11:23 eks: what's SOA there? 04:11:39 a whois works though 04:12:25 not exactly sure what "SOA" means, but it's used to defined the expiration time for the dns->ip mapping 04:12:40 start of authority record, 04:12:51 the minimum time the dns should be cached, the maximum time to be cached, etc 04:13:05 SOA is the authority on the domain 04:13:18 TTL is what you described 04:14:07 is eks drunk? =) 04:14:08 I guess what he meant, is the serial, refresh, ttl, and stuff are part of the SOA block in bind zones 04:14:30 ahh 04:14:37 block or field :) 04:14:45 root@server:/etc/named# cat telecomoptions 04:14:45 $TTL 3D 04:14:45 @ IN SOA telecomoptions.com. root.telecomoptions.com. ( 04:14:45 2 ; serial 04:14:45 4H ; refresh 04:14:48 2H ; retry 04:14:50 4W ; expiry 04:14:53 1H ) ; minimum 04:14:56 shit... 04:14:57 TTL information is also filled within the SOA recodr 04:15:04 eks: yeah yeah yeah 04:15:09 * indigo can't find his gandi ID! 04:15:10 grr! 04:15:17 eks: stop explaining obvious things =) 04:15:22 indigo: it's PFT2-GANDI 04:15:24 * eks kicks berkus 04:15:48 eks: serial is better written as YYYYMMDDSS 04:15:55 yup :) 04:15:57 not just 2 04:15:57 ehm 04:16:04 YYYYMMDDCN 04:16:14 oink: yes, SS aren't seconds 04:16:17 where CN is the number of changes made :) 04:16:19 hah 04:16:21 oink: its SSerial number =) 04:16:44 k :) 04:17:14 or better 04:17:21 I used date +%s once :) 04:17:46 * eks wonders how long before Gandi receives his check.. 04:18:25 eks: they already have it 04:18:41 awww crap 04:18:50 Subject: [GANDI] 1 domaine(s) expirant dans 30 jours / 1 domain(s) expiring in 30 days 04:19:03 oh well I don't care :P 04:19:19 indigo: I doubt it, I sent my check 2 days ago 04:19:33 ehm 04:19:49 (@*)#!*() 04:19:52 gandi internal error 04:19:57 eks: it's plastic 04:20:06 eks: it went directly to their bank in secconds 04:20:12 indigo: I don't care about your check, I care about _mine_ :P 04:20:20 * oink wonders if gandi is clever enough to drop the DNS records which use expired domains 04:20:41 --- join: trans (~trans@00-20-78-c9-e5-d1.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 04:21:10 shit man... 04:21:32 oink: they may not drop it, but verisign will 04:23:08 * indigo hits pummels gandi with a LART and a cluebat 04:24:34 nice.. 04:25:14 indigo: did you setup your IP and all? 04:25:30 eks: yes, locally 04:25:45 eks: the bastards didn't put me as SOA, and then their nameserver is br0ken 04:26:03 their ns isn't broken 04:26:05 now i'm tring to fix it, and i get a "gandi internal error" 04:26:07 ;; Query time: 154 msec 04:26:07 ;; SERVER: 80.67.173.196#53(ns6.gandi.net) 04:26:09 i'm not in it 04:26:56 how do you figure it's not br0ken? 04:27:06 they answer :) 04:27:10 gah 04:27:13 they are lusers! 04:27:20 you are :p 04:27:20 * indigo is really pissed... 04:27:21 gandi > * 04:27:32 gandi > /dev/null 04:36:04 anyone know the x11 name for the euro symbol? 04:45:09 hum 04:54:03 /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h 04:54:21 is it in there? 04:54:29 LATIN15 i suppose 04:55:19 --- quit: Kurt (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:56:05 hum 04:56:19 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@gstw-d9b89f0f.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 04:56:29 hiyall 04:56:37 XK_EuroSign probally 04:56:57 hi Mathis 04:57:03 hi Zenton 04:57:05 probably ;) 04:57:14 yah, now i need the charset :) 04:57:49 ;) 04:58:20 humph 04:58:43 got it...but i can't type it here :( 05:00:14 --- join: kemu (Jonas@220.120-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 05:00:32 grrmph 05:00:50 i got it to make the changes on my domain... 05:01:22 * indigo wishes gandi would fix their ns :( 05:02:45 * indigo thwaps ganda with a cluebat 05:02:49 gandi even 05:06:36 what's wrong with their ns? 05:06:52 that internal error? 05:12:53 --- part: nao-out-to-launc left #osdev 05:14:11 --- quit: kemu () 05:14:30 --- join: kemu (Jonas@220.120-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 05:14:48 eks: i'm not in it! 05:15:29 indigo: when did you submit your information? 05:28:00 --- quit: eks ("goin' to work") 05:34:14 --- join: nonama (~nx@213.226.161.83) joined #osdev 05:34:40 indigo: why are using gandi's ns? 05:34:50 why are u 05:38:57 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:39:03 --- join: kemu (Jonas@220.120-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 05:43:57 14:38 -!- Irssi: #urbanterror: Total of 71 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 5 voices, 63 normal] 05:44:03 14:39 < titou> If it for is tested us also one will like tested 05:44:12 this is TEH FRENCH speaking 05:44:35 finally someone here :) 05:44:38 can I ask 2questions ? 05:44:54 kemu: 1 only 05:45:08 heh 05:45:28 well I'm looking on amazon for books about osdev found 3 good once 'I think' 05:45:32 here are the names 05:45:36 Modern Operating Systems (2nd Edition) by Andrew S. Tanenbaum 05:45:42 Operating System Concepts, 6th Edition by Abraham Silberschatz, et al 05:45:44 sucks 05:45:52 Operating Systems: Design And Implementation (2nd Edition) 05:45:52 by Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Albert S. Woodhull 05:45:58 thayt all suck 05:45:58 now I wanne buy a book 05:46:03 they all suck 05:46:11 air: what is a good one then ? 05:46:23 why do u wanna make an OS? 05:47:05 I don't really want to make an OS, I just started of with the minix system 05:47:21 uhh 05:47:31 why would u buy a book if yer not gonna make an OS? 05:47:34 I would like to now more on the way it works on how os's work, change code of a kernel 05:47:44 ok 05:47:45 change code of a kernel 05:47:48 write my own 05:47:50 buy those books then 05:48:11 problem is they teach the antique ways of OS design 05:48:20 air: I'm only 17 those books aren't cheap for me 05:48:26 I wanne start with one book 05:48:39 so wich one would you recommend for me 05:48:44 if u dont have money to throw around then dont buy any of them 05:49:05 we can teach u how an OS works 05:49:08 for free 05:49:22 like you will have the time 05:49:33 and we are interactive so u can ask questions, unlike the book :) 05:49:41 we do 05:49:45 we have no life 05:49:51 hehe someone like me :) 05:50:17 actually I don't want to spend much money on a book wanne buy a new 2nd hand pc 05:50:28 that's why I don't have much money for books 05:50:45 cause I noticed that you have to test a lot of stuff 05:50:59 and I only have this pc (don't want to reboot all the time) and a 386 05:51:11 thats why u install bochs 05:51:41 guess it is this http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ 05:51:50 yup 05:52:11 still would like an other pc then one running windows and one running linux 05:52:25 but bochs looks ok, does it work reall good ? 05:52:35 it works good enuf 05:53:04 its debugger is the most valuable feature 05:53:28 but now back to the books, aren't there any books up to date ? 05:53:36 no 05:53:48 cuz up-to-date doesnt really exist yet 05:54:36 pretty much all the OSes in existance today are MAS 05:54:50 MAS ? 05:54:52 NAS ? 05:54:59 they use multiple address spaces to isolate programs 05:55:49 * kemu is not that advanced 05:55:54 u code the programs in whatever language u want and make the shittiest apps and they wont hurt the system 05:56:07 u use linux? 05:56:24 yes and windows but more windows 05:56:30 ok 05:56:35 can u program? 05:57:07 I programme really good in python, know some basics of C (wanne learn more about C to) 05:57:31 do u know what a process is? 05:57:46 a cpu process 05:58:02 when u run a program the OS creates a process 05:58:16 the process is the state of the program 05:58:37 you have 2process's then run and don't run ? 05:58:47 ya 05:58:58 ok 05:59:14 the x86 cpu can address up to 4gig of memory 05:59:19 thats the address space 05:59:43 linux uses paging to map a fake address space over the 4gig 05:59:51 and each process has its own fake address space 05:59:58 doesn't 4gig depends on the speed of a cpu ? 06:00:02 so each process thinks it has all the memory 06:00:08 dear... basics on the way 06:00:14 berkus: :) 06:00:26 kemu: no 06:00:37 so a 386 can hold 4gig ? 06:00:51 kemu: x86 is 32bit which means it can access 4gig 06:00:55 well 06:00:58 yes and no 06:01:14 some 386s are crippled 06:01:26 linux uses paging to map a fake address space over the 4gig => swap ? or is swap just virtuel momory 06:01:32 internally they can access 4gig but intel cut some pins off the outside 06:02:17 and i doubt there is a 386 mobo that can hold 4gig 06:02:51 * berkus doubts that, too 06:03:10 there aren't any SIMMs that can make up 4gig on any mobo 06:04:02 --- join: eks (~eks@24.70.176.227) joined #osdev 06:04:02 kemu: its virtual memory 06:04:03 I think I have a lot of learning to do 06:04:20 before I can even think about coding some part of my own 06:04:24 eks: explain paging/swap/vm to kemu while i go eat 06:04:37 air: lol, I gotta work pal 06:04:42 np 06:04:49 I'll find some stuff out on my own 06:04:52 eks: we all now u shit on irc all day :) 06:04:57 learn some C 06:04:59 s/now/know/ 06:05:04 air: huhuh... 06:05:07 and if I am in troub I'll come here 06:05:21 and I'll buy a book to 06:05:48 mooooo 06:05:49 kemu: out of all of us eks has the least amount of a life 06:06:04 i'll remember that :) 06:06:25 kemu: http://bespin.org/~qz/irc/2002-08-August.html 06:06:41 kemu: #1 == no lifer 06:06:54 humhum 06:06:59 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 06:07:00 * indigo considers writing his own gui 06:07:14 what do you think guys? 06:07:21 woow you are pretty advanced 06:07:26 well, widget set anyway :P 06:07:31 if u look at the time bar it shows he talks on irc during the day when he says "I gotta work pal" 06:07:46 build it on sdl... 06:08:15 indigo: i wrote a widget set on opengl 06:08:44 damn you are smart 06:08:55 does opengl have 2d stuffs to do that? 06:08:59 kemu: it requires no smarts 06:09:05 indigo: yes 06:09:16 air: hm...ya have any links? 06:09:23 indigo: qzx.com/stk 06:09:35 air: got any links for me to start off ? 06:09:59 kemu: qzx.com/lib 06:10:39 kemu: or use google to find docs on paging and virtual memory 06:11:34 thnx 06:11:40 talk to you later 06:12:19 btw should I look at asm to start or just leave it and start learning more C 06:12:38 asm is always good to learn 06:13:07 i learnd asm before C 06:14:47 humm 06:14:58 air: kinda looks ugly :) 06:18:07 hum 06:20:05 * indigo thinks he will have to write his own gui :( 06:20:36 do you use an OS you ever made yourself to work in ? 06:21:03 heh 06:21:06 would be nice :) 06:23:54 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-895.arbok.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 06:25:00 problem is that most ppl here are writing antique OSes and they give up early on 06:25:23 their OSes are just cheap versions of linux 06:25:39 no motivation to keep moving forward 06:26:21 oh 06:26:39 i know how to dumb down MAS so u understand 06:26:41 heh 06:26:57 each address space is like a house 06:27:16 u have walls and locked doors to keep other ppl out 06:27:39 who are you talking to? 06:27:43 kemy 06:27:46 oh 06:27:46 kemu: 06:28:10 each process has its own house 06:28:28 ? 06:28:40 and it cant get into the houses of other process 06:28:51 ehm 06:29:12 cept for windows which is like houses with gaping holes in the walls 06:29:53 Windows 95 is a mud hut with a brick porch 06:29:58 IPC.. :) 06:30:01 pavlovskii: heh 06:30:30 ipc is when u give yer neighbor the keys to yer house 06:30:43 to walk the dog, feed the plants and stuff.. 06:30:46 Windows NT is a big house with the central heating attached to the sink 06:31:11 kemu: understand? 06:31:31 so every process has its own adress space 06:31:44 kemu: SAS (single address space) is like everyone living in the same house, u never know when someone will steal yer stuff 06:31:45 other process can't enter other adress spaces (normallyà 06:32:08 dos is SAS 06:32:20 dos is single process, too 06:32:31 indigo: sorta 06:33:31 SAS is a lot faster than MAS cuz ppl dont have to carry keys and stop to unlock doors 06:34:19 but SAS is really bad if u dont use it with a safe language (brainwash all the ppl to be good) 06:34:50 really bad, for security 06:34:53 not for speed :) 06:34:55 and then SAS becomes much better than MAS because now its faster and its apps are good 06:35:07 where as MAS apps run around trashing their own houses 06:35:09 but you are limited in the laguage 06:35:14 and the language can be bypassed 06:35:24 indigo: no it cant 06:35:35 kemu: don't listen to air; he's biased :) 06:36:23 * indigo gives up on the widgets and uses gtk+ 06:36:23 of course, MAS is just as fast as SAS if you lessen the need to do IPC constantly 06:36:26 SAS+SL is faster, more protected and more secure than any MAS os 06:36:31 e.g. by putting servers into the kernel 06:36:45 because you can take advantage of the hardware's built-in protection 06:36:56 pavlovskii: monolithic kernels use a SAS core 06:37:22 you mean the kernel half of every process is SAS? 06:37:24 * kemu will brb have to go to the store 06:37:31 thnx air learned a lot 06:37:46 the hardwares protection slows it down and is not fine grained 06:37:47 kemu: nobody uses SAS except air ;p 06:37:54 pavlovskii: witten does 06:37:59 "the hardwares protection slows it down" 06:38:01 pavlovskii: tunes does 06:38:04 what a bunch of crap! 06:38:11 pavlovskii: it does 06:38:32 segment register reloads in a segmented x86 OS do, maybe 06:38:32 44 cycles for a callgate, 48 for int gate and 7 to return to the app 06:38:50 that's not the protection I'm referring to 06:39:00 that's just getting into/out of the kernel 06:39:06 ya 06:39:21 thats a barrier the app must cross and it slows it down 06:39:41 thats why monolithic kernels stuff everything in the kernel 06:39:54 cuz it takes too long to do app->kernel->driver 06:40:27 SAS has no such barrier so it can call the driver directly, 2 cycles 06:41:16 or 1 cycle if it uses static linking like brix 06:41:25 --- join: eKIK (~eKIK@h199n2fls31o858.telia.com) joined #osdev 06:41:57 ok, surely the exokernel model is better than SAS? 06:42:11 inter-process protection, yet no 'potential' slowdowns for talking to the kernel 06:42:12 * EtherNet listens: Savage Garden - I want you 06:42:19 no 06:42:19 no need for a safe language 06:42:36 the safe language IS the OS 06:43:27 what arguments do you have for a safe language as opposed to the developer's language/compiler of choice? 06:43:31 a safe language provides fine grained protection 06:43:35 air: are you still working on brix? 06:43:37 than what? 06:43:42 nonama: yes 06:43:54 than what what? 06:44:09 finer grained protection than what? 06:44:19 than hardware 06:44:30 so does most software 06:44:35 haha 06:44:36 air: does it have gui? 06:44:56 IA-32 doesn't know about files, yet I can still apply ACLs to my files 06:44:59 nonama "has" :P 06:45:15 ohh sorry "have" if you ask I think 06:45:28 EtherNet: you just fucked up :P 06:45:40 nonama sorry 06:46:24 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80362.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 06:46:35 EtherNet: no prob 06:46:39 air: are you alive? 06:46:43 wossname!!! 06:46:54 pavlovskii: is that suppose to mean something or did u say it just to be talking? 06:47:12 air: I'm trying to work out your rationale for using a safe language 06:47:23 air did you fix the whois parse, can you see signed on, now ? 06:47:27 besides replacing hardware protection, which I dont't think is necessary 06:47:28 pavlovskii: THE SAFE LANGUAGE **IS** THE OS 06:47:35 hi nonama 06:48:19 air: so your OS is like a BBC Micro or a Spectrum? 06:48:33 just bigger :) 06:48:47 http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Language-OS_Hybrids/ 06:48:58 "language-OS hybrid 06:48:59 " 06:49:39 EtherNet: sign-on is NOT part of whois 06:50:01 air ohhh then.. how do I see it ? 06:50:11 no idea 06:50:28 I think you're wrong... 06:50:52 im never wrong 06:51:03 ahh ok, if you say it :P 06:51:15 and no ever lives to make me wrong ;) 06:51:21 * pavlovskii isn't is no nearer understanding the rationale of language-OS hybrids than before 06:51:22 no one 06:51:27 air: why?! 06:51:52 ah, you want to maintain compatibility with CPUs that lack an MMU 06:52:06 so that the same protection can be achieved on, say, an 8086 06:52:08 right? 06:52:26 pavlovskii: i know its hard for u to see the light with all those walls u put up 06:52:39 just tell me why! 06:52:50 afaict, you haven't given any reasons 06:53:01 my walls have windows in them 06:53:02 fine grained protection 06:53:18 anyone can write fine-grained protection 06:53:24 memory is just one resource 06:53:31 anything else can be protected using function calls 06:53:32 yes but this is PART of the OS 06:53:34 heck, so can memory 06:54:20 thats the other problem 06:54:23 heck, what do you call %SystemRoot%\system32\smss.exe if not part of the OS? 06:54:32 ^ NT's security subsystem 06:54:36 modern OSes expose everything with function calls 06:54:47 so? 06:55:37 u can access everything 06:55:49 you can access what? 06:56:08 I can create a file that I can't access unless I log on under a different name 06:56:18 adding checks in functions only bloats the code and that code can probably be exploited 06:56:19 NT achieves that without a safe language 06:56:21 hehe.. the only arguing man on earth that's ready to fuck air's language-OS ideas.... my applause, pavlovski 06:56:33 I'm just trying to explore his reasoning 06:56:39 I'm going to take a shower... brb 06:56:41 pavlovskii: my account can access ALL of my files 06:56:44 --- join: lhowe (~louishow@adsl-20-223-92.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 06:56:52 --- join: aramius (~aramius@p50869762.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:56:53 so when i run the virus it destroys everything 06:57:07 well, you shouldn't log on as root then 06:57:12 no 06:57:14 surely that's the number 1 rule of Unix security? 06:57:18 it destroys all of my files 06:57:18 don't use root for anything 06:57:27 my home dir is gone 06:58:22 15:56 < air> pavlovskii: my account can access ALL of my files 06:58:23 heh 06:58:24 mine too 06:58:28 air: thats' wrong argument imo 06:58:42 (notice the 'my') 06:58:47 berkus: will u run this virus? 06:58:53 oink: me too, but that's just because I'm too lazy to take better security measures 06:59:00 air: thats what are capabilities and other things are thought of by some...developers 06:59:01 and because I don't use Outlook Express for email 06:59:08 ah.. 06:59:14 air: what-for 06:59:18 which OS were you talking about ? :) 06:59:37 capabilities suck 06:59:47 everything can be exloited 06:59:49 'my' files, for me, means 'personnal files' or something, but it does not include system files, libs, executables and stuff 06:59:58 air: iow, you are trying to solve the problem by taking countermeasures in probably orthogonal direction 07:00:02 air: only if you have an irresponsible system administrator 07:00:03 thats why u need to take everything away, nothing to exploit 07:00:20 air: you end up with _nothing_, this way 07:00:44 air: whom are you targetting with this? 07:00:45 berkus: no, u end up with what u were given 07:01:16 oink: thats what i meant 07:02:30 morning 07:02:32 --- nick: lynx_zZzz -> lynx 07:02:41 the safe language prevents code from generating random file IDs because the file type can only be set with a file object 07:03:40 air: whom are you targetting with this? 07:04:04 file templates let the OS load and parse a files contents so file objects can be stored in files and extracted without breaking security 07:04:10 u 07:04:28 air: seriously, whom are you targetting with this? 07:04:37 individual users? 07:04:41 large corporations? 07:04:42 * 07:04:52 the US NSA? 07:04:56 :)) 07:04:57 * 07:04:58 good luck :) 07:04:59 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 07:05:04 because it's inappropriate for the first group 07:05:11 no its not 07:05:12 and probably for most of the second group 07:05:19 and I think the NSA probably have their own solution to this 07:05:31 --- join: holland (~insane@asylum.cad.gatech.edu) joined #osdev 07:05:42 PC users have worked well for the last 20 years with the current compromise 07:05:55 it's not fail-safe, but it does give everyone the flexibility they need 07:05:57 no they havent 07:06:08 so does brix 07:06:12 to lock things down completely would eliminate the flexibility that makes the PC world what it is 07:06:28 the admin can disable all safety in the language 07:06:38 and turn the OS into... MS-DOS? 07:06:54 what does brix offer that current operating systems don't? 07:07:04 wait, I know the answer 07:07:12 absolute security, or not, depending on the admin 07:07:18 and the inability to use your old apps 07:07:23 am I right? 07:07:26 old apps are shit 07:07:30 or have I missed the point? 07:07:41 all current apps are shit 07:07:43 gah... 07:07:48 I should have said, old/current apps 07:07:48 you guys are still fighting! 07:07:51 and future apps 07:07:58 they were made for a shitty OS using a shitty language 07:08:04 * pavlovskii isn't fighting, /me is just trying to understand air 07:08:13 pavlovskii: such can not be done :) 07:08:34 air: so, by your reasoning, all operating systems not made by you, and all languages not made by you, are shit? 07:08:48 no 07:08:49 his philosophy is to "force" everyone to write good, well-behaved, secure code by giving them only a "protected" language 07:09:05 indigo: bingo 07:09:06 air: then what? 07:09:26 but people won't write new code, at least not straight away 07:09:31 and an OS without applications is nothing 07:09:35 see? even he agrees with me :) 07:09:37 hence nobody will use your OS? 07:09:40 pavlovskii: brix doesnt support apps 07:09:54 what's the point in it then? 07:10:03 brix is one big fat app 07:10:03 * nonama interested 07:10:17 ms windows is another fat app 07:10:25 so far, brix is looking less useful than your average OS that loads from a disk and reprograms the PIC 07:10:31 it just cant stand still... it crashes 07:10:48 pavlovskii: no 07:11:08 with brix u compile all the code into brix 07:11:10 say, how would you write a letter in brix? 07:11:16 its like forth 07:11:23 on Windows 2000, I can start Word and start typing 07:11:24 --- join: asmodeus (~www@212.85.70.163) joined #osdev 07:11:25 u add new words to its dictionary 07:11:27 well 07:11:35 so brix is like emacs ;> 07:11:35 you claim that brix is targetted at everyone 07:11:47 how would your average user do something useful like write a letter? 07:11:59 * holland laughs at gab 07:12:01 won't programs in brix suffer a performance hit? 07:12:05 clone a text template and start writing 07:12:11 in what? 07:12:14 a word processor? 07:12:19 wossname: what programs? 07:12:24 pavlovskii: in brix 07:12:31 any sort of program that requires heavy cpu use 07:12:39 how would you right-align text for the address line? 07:12:53 pavlovskii: huh? 07:12:54 (and they're both written in a lisp-like language) 07:12:55 sounds like its interpreted 07:13:07 wossname: brix is multithreaded 07:13:13 air: I'm trying to get a feel of what using brix will/would be like for everyday tasks 07:13:21 wossname: no 07:13:42 wossname: it uses 100% staticly linked machine code for max speed 07:13:58 ah. i must have misread your line, then 07:14:08 'with brix you compile all code into brix' 07:14:12 pavlovskii: no perl :) 07:14:19 os and language as one, bleh 07:14:23 air: describe to me the steps a user would carry out to write, save and print a letter, under brix 07:14:30 pavlovskii: go read some user interface books 07:14:35 I have 07:14:39 pavlovskii: u will see that apps are flawed 07:14:49 pavlovskii: they should not exist in an OS 07:15:00 air, just tell me what a user would be expected to do! 07:15:01 idiots dont understand apps 07:15:10 they don't have too :) 07:15:33 current interfaces are quite nice. most programs share the same one 07:15:36 and file associations blow 07:15:39 moo 07:15:50 air, please answer my question 07:16:04 my mom still doesn't want to leave her wordperfect 5.1 interface and all of its hotkeys 07:16:06 imagine I am a newbie computer user 07:16:16 I want to end up with a nicely printed job application letter 07:16:22 on a piece of paper 07:16:34 how would I achieve that state of affairs if I had installed brix on my computer? 07:16:53 pavlovskii: brix is persistent so there is no save 07:16:58 ok, fair enough 07:17:12 the concept of writing something then having to 'save' it is unintuitive 07:17:21 unless you develop a mental model of how the computer works inside 07:17:26 but carry on 07:17:31 what are you guys talking about? 07:18:01 about life,sex and operating systems 07:18:15 carry on? 07:18:28 well, so far I know that there won't be a save command 07:18:38 help! I need to get this letter sent off! 07:18:46 I don't know what to do! Where's the 'Word' icon? 07:19:02 I remember... Word sucks so I installed brix instead 07:19:16 I've lost the user manual, but luckily I've tracked down the system's author in an IRC channel 07:19:20 air: what do I need to do? 07:19:33 u clone a template which opens a window to edit the text 07:19:43 ok, got that 07:19:53 air: what are you talking about? 07:19:55 then u press the print button 07:19:59 how do I know if I've got the right window? what does it look like? 07:20:34 its 08:20 im going to bed 07:20:41 pah! you lose! :p 07:20:52 * pavlovskii claims this as a victory for 'normal' operating systems 07:21:05 am i like on an ignore list or something? 07:21:08 whatever 07:21:14 lynx: yes, nobody can hear you 07:21:23 pavlovskii: go get some more brain power 07:21:27 * lynx thought so :/ 07:21:28 I have some 07:21:29 That's NOT A RETORT! 07:21:33 some is not enuf 07:21:34 Go get some more brain power 07:21:40 however, I'm not telepathic 07:21:46 I can't understand you unless you explain yourself 07:22:01 lor, brix is broken, uninstall it and go back to windows!!1 07:22:12 u wanna know what a friggin window looks like 07:22:12 air: is this information on your web site? 07:22:25 its a fscking box on the screen u dumbass 07:22:33 I want to know how a user will carry out typical tasks they expect of a computer 07:22:48 ok, I have a blank screen with no text 07:23:02 I can type text in here 07:23:29 but if there are no apps, what's the difference between editing this letter and managing my finances? 07:23:34 im not gonna describe how a comma patient will use brix u dumbass 07:23:40 coma 07:23:55 but a coma patient couldn't use it, because they'd be unconcious 07:24:00 * pavlovskii fails to see air's reasoning 07:24:21 brix is the app 07:24:34 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:24:38 ok, that's clear to me 07:24:46 brix has all the code to display text, it has the code to edit text, it has the code to play yer games 07:25:09 I'm bored of all the games that came with the computer. Where can I get new ones? 07:25:26 So, it's everything that you need, in one package, instead of multiple packages? 07:25:29 u access the repository 07:25:39 cool! minesweeper! 07:25:46 * pavlovskii downloads the brix port of minesweeper 07:26:03 hey, now I have brix with all its apps and a copy of minesweeper 07:26:17 do I have to put minesweeper on a disk and reboot to use it? 07:26:25 u pick the shit u want, brix downloads and compiles it 07:26:39 How does the user make his own programs? 07:26:41 hmm, I know this... it's like RPM 07:26:43 think of brix as the borg 07:26:46 haha 07:26:48 no 07:26:51 not rpm 07:27:23 ok, you download apps, the system compiles them, and you can use them 07:27:32 that sounds fair 07:27:56 the respository can be cdrom too 07:28:16 ok 07:28:54 so brix isn't all apps, but apps can be installed and used separately 07:28:57 the repository is the second level of security for brix 07:29:24 hey, I want to try this new compression algorithm I read about 07:29:26 the repository is part of brix 07:29:28 can I implement that in brix? 07:29:44 --- part: nonama left #osdev 07:30:00 air, do you have something up on your site about the language? 07:30:00 no u cant 07:30:08 wossname: yes 07:30:15 maybe example code? 07:30:17 wossname: u can download the compiler too 07:30:26 oh, good. i'll take a look then 07:30:35 use cvs 07:30:42 --- join: lynx_ (~lynx@pD9E63890.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 07:41:55 --- quit: lynx (Connection timed out) 07:45:45 --- quit: berkus ("Quit XChat") 07:50:35 --- join: foxglove (~foxglove@wri-dns1.wolfram.com) joined #osdev 07:50:59 --- join: berkus (~berkus@kraft.skbkontur.ru) joined #osdev 07:52:11 --- join: debug (fnytpprgh3@glupnij.hemmet.chalmers.se) joined #osdev 07:52:34 --- quit: nbsp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:53:22 --- quit: asmodeus ("brb") 07:54:26 --- join: asmodeus (~www@212.85.70.163) joined #osdev 07:55:34 --- join: nbsp (g@ip68-14-60-55.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 07:57:25 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-1243.duckdive.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 07:57:45 --- quit: pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 07:57:51 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 08:04:18 I'm baaaaack! 08:04:25 wb Rico 08:04:48 RICO!!!!!!!!! 08:05:26 FILE!!!!! 08:07:27 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@gc-nas-01-s73.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 08:08:52 hey Kurt! 08:11:06 --- quit: lhowe () 08:11:11 moo 08:19:30 --- join: Ubel (~jonorn@arnarson.is) joined #osdev 08:24:09 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by rear") 08:26:27 --- part: berkus left #osdev 08:32:03 --- join: Mikaku (mikaku@193-153-38-214.uc.nombres.ttd.es) joined #osdev 08:32:11 hi * 08:38:26 --- join: gigi_sull (~sullivan@a-co11-28.tin.it) joined #osdev 08:38:29 Aiee :) 08:38:33 Hello! 08:39:30 hey :) 08:40:39 --- join: kemu (Jonas@46.151-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 08:40:49 I wrote down a simple linker script. Hope it'd be right ;) 08:43:02 --- part: Mikaku left #osdev 08:45:47 pavlovskii: I'm also browsing some of your sources :) 08:48:58 ehm anyone knows what's the purpose of alignment? I know that this is a hw requisite on some arch (SPARC, for example) but what about it on, say, x86? 08:49:32 speed! 08:49:43 it's a similar reason: although the x86 handles misaligned data automatically, it's still a lot slower 08:50:19 cache efficiency 08:50:40 alignment == unfalicious 08:51:03 unfalicious ? 08:51:08 (wazzat ?) 08:51:08 UNF 08:51:31 i have a question too 08:52:04 UNF UNF 08:52:08 if an mp3 cd player makes white noise distortions when playing certain songs, what can i do to fix this? 08:52:20 get better quality songs 08:52:23 change mp3 player 08:52:32 bleh >:( 08:52:50 anything lower than 128kbps = bad 08:52:53 i'll use the 'hammer' approach recommended to me by my good friend 08:53:27 the songs it messes up on are at 128 kbps, resampled at 22 khz 08:53:57 they're all chiptunes, too 08:54:05 it does ordinary music fine 08:54:27 --- part: debug left #osdev 08:58:33 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@gstw-d9b89f01.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 08:58:44 heh all 08:58:45 Hey Mathis! 08:58:56 ^_________- 08:58:59 hey Rico 09:02:44 --- join: Qnix (~Qnix@51-BAR2-X85.libre.retevision.es) joined #osdev 09:04:45 Damn, I put fundraising to my ignore list, but it doesn't work, AHHHH!!!! 09:06:06 --- quit: stormbind__ (Connection timed out) 09:06:28 --- join: stormbind__ (~stormbind@pD9E61760.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:07:25 How do I have to build the 16bit value that I have to wrote at 0x3d5 to update the hardware cursor position? 09:10:15 see www.osjournal.hopto.org, it has an article about that 09:10:32 --- quit: Qnix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:12:20 Rico: I read that article and it was great for me. Unfortunatly it expect to have in bx the value to write at 0x3d5 (using 2 writes) ... What's in that bx?! :) 09:13:51 the upper byte and then the lower byte I think 09:14:04 you write 2x 8 bits, but it needs a 16 bit value 09:15:11 yes but what the upper and lower bytes stand for? upper == x and lower == y for example or what? 09:16:32 --- join: DRF (~daniel@host213-121-69-219.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 09:16:46 I don't know, I think the 16 bit value is just the offset starting from the topleft of the screen going the same way as the video memory works 09:16:54 I never programmed it 09:22:50 anybody here happens to know how to setup a linux machine so as to be able to access the internet thru a wingate gateway? 09:23:04 I don't use Wingate so I wouldn't know 09:23:19 I tried setting up the wingate machine as the default gateway in route but I still cant' ping the net 09:24:43 Rico: thanks, that's what I thought too but it seems it doesn't work. However I might be in error ;) I'll try that again. 09:25:35 doesn't the tutorial give enough information about it? 09:25:47 you could always email the writer of that tutorial 09:27:15 Rico: uh, sure. I didn't thought about that yet ;) 09:29:28 eks: I don't know if wingate can do masquerading (i.e. NAT) or it's just simple proxy gateway. If it's the latter, you can't ping from the "natted" lan/host to the Internet. 09:30:33 it's a proxy :/ 09:30:37 ok 09:30:41 so you can't ping 09:30:43 I'm on a proxy right now :) 09:30:57 gigi_sull: couldn't connect via telnet to port 80 either... 09:30:59 I can't ping outside my LAN... but I'm here! 09:31:01 just set up the right proxy service (web for example) on the wingate machine 09:31:22 gigi_sull: I need to be able to send emails using smtp from the linux box 09:31:25 eks: and setup your favourite web client to use that proxy 09:31:42 file: yep, that's normal. 09:31:50 I know gigi 09:32:03 gigi_sull: the web I don't care, that box got a special use and must be able to relay one email every 15 minutes 09:32:11 cause I have to tell my apps to use Socks5... 09:32:25 file: yep, that's a way. 09:32:31 gigi_sull: is there some way to setup a stmp proxy over wingate? 09:32:48 eks: use Proxy+ 09:33:04 eks: er, dunno sorry. Never used wingate. However which kind of proxy you can setup on wingate? 09:33:07 it has socks... http... ftp.. dns... smtp... pop3 09:33:26 eks: ok, switch to file's hint :) 09:33:48 file: I can't replace wingate, It's not my network 09:34:04 tell them to switch! 09:34:10 eks: well so reconsider my question then :) 09:34:11 I love this proxy program 09:34:21 you can put in virus checking and such too 09:35:38 gigi_sull: got no clue, the guy maintaining the network is a clueless windows admin that simply sets up a wingate client on every computer of the network not understanding anything about ip fowarding or such 09:37:46 eks: what are you able to do from the lan? 09:38:24 gigi_sull: I know every computer running the wingate client can browse the web, send and receive emails 09:39:16 I can do that... 09:39:23 plus SSH, AIM, ICQ 09:39:28 * file loves it 09:39:58 well if they can send email their emails should go out somehow. I suppose that the wingate has a smtp proxy too (even if I'm not 100% sure - not too many infos ;)) 09:40:27 smtp proxy or, better an smtp server 09:40:51 if latter, just configure your MTA to send email through that smtp server 09:40:52 gigi_sull: nah, no smtp server, that much I know 09:41:19 tried to connect to port 25 of the wingate box, nothing there, so there's no server 09:41:43 well 09:41:49 what I don't know is how to setup eth0/wget/sendmail to work thru the proxy 09:41:55 eks: do they have to run the client to access the net? 09:43:02 eks: can you see an email client setup to see how they send email (which is the outgoing server and so on)? 09:43:03 file: yes 09:43:24 alrighty then 09:43:28 gigi_sull: they just use the isp's configuration, the wingate client does everything else 09:43:43 I hypothesize that it tunnels sockets through the client app 09:43:59 probably 09:44:10 so when an app wants to open a connection to smtp.dingo.com port 25 - it tunnels it through the proxy 09:44:14 file: sure as hell sounds like it, the question is how to do that under *nix 09:44:22 mmm 09:44:35 find a wingate client for Linux 09:44:37 er *nix 09:45:02 ... 09:45:40 * Rico pets eks 09:46:22 eks: which services the wingate machine expose? 09:47:05 gigi_sull: no clue, couldn't run extensive test, that was the network of one of our customer 09:47:22 eks: neither a simple portscan? 09:49:47 * file is glad his proxy services are password protected and/or restricted to certain IPs (only his LAN ones) 09:52:15 is there an app for Windows 95 that will show me in my tray when there's incoming/outgoing data on my NIC? 09:52:17 eks: doesn't wingate support NAT ? 09:52:55 can't he switch his gateway to linux instead of Windows, and running the Windows box behind the Linux one ? 09:53:19 it's a clients system 09:53:22 or Freebsd, or whatever, 09:53:44 file: clients, as in computing or .. ? :) 09:54:07 a customers computer... 09:54:32 well this is a solution, I was just suggesting it.. 09:55:11 --- quit: file ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 09:55:18 he can tell his client about it, it'd be easier to administrate, use, ... 09:55:19 heh 09:55:32 looks like he installed a Linux/Unix box (: 09:57:32 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.39) joined #osdev 09:58:52 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-444.articuno.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 09:59:10 --- quit: pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 09:59:14 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 10:00:13 --- join: HuntrCkr (huntrckr@myr53-01-p199.gt.saix.net) joined #osdev 10:00:55 * HuntrCkr has his fs working!!! YIPEE!! 10:01:11 :) 10:02:16 hmm... either nobody cares, or nobody is awake... 10:02:17 Nice 10:02:24 * DRF claps 10:02:28 HuntrCkr: which FS? 10:02:32 HuntrCkr:) 10:02:36 hey ;) 10:03:17 HuntrCkr: your own designed fs or some existing fs? 10:03:49 own designed fs 10:04:09 HuntrCkr: I DO care, but I'm too way long for having something like fs working. Just trying to learn starting from the basis ... 10:04:11 that one that is database based 10:04:15 ahh, sorry, I would have been more impressed the other way around ;) 10:04:16 HuntrCkr: great however! :D 10:04:35 eks: did you do the portscan? 10:05:10 eks: what fs would you like implemented? 10:05:12 gigi_sull: I'm not there, I'm an hour of car away from that network, and when I'm there I normally only have 20 minutes of time to do everything. 10:05:35 eks: shit. That doesn't help 10:05:36 HuntrCkr: XFS, ReiserFS, Ext2/3 10:06:15 hehe.. ReiserFS ;) 10:06:19 gigi_sull: the machine is a 486-33Mhz, no cd-rom drive, 10Mbps network, no net access (obviously). 10:06:50 gigi_sull: it's currently setup as debian 2.2-r0 with only the minimum require to do its task 10:06:56 so setting something up is a pain unless I can get the net going 10:07:06 eks: yep 10:08:30 now that i have the fs done, i can finally finish coding the 2nd stage loader to load my kernel 10:09:14 btw, has anyone here done a c++ kernel yet? 10:09:47 HuntrCkr: indigo did 10:10:06 indigo made a C++ kernel 10:10:07 ? 10:10:31 pavlovskii: ja 10:10:38 * pavlovskii is impressed 10:15:43 * HuntrCkr knocks on indigo's door.... anybody home? 10:16:13 unless I'm mistaken he is working at the grocery store atm 10:16:37 hmmm... guess i'll have to wait then :) 10:26:37 --- quit: foxglove (Remote closed the connection) 10:27:50 --- join: SnitraM (ams@130.240.16.13) joined #osdev 10:29:03 --- part: SnitraM left #osdev 10:29:18 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust199.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 10:30:34 --- join: SnitraM (ams@speedy.ludd.luth.se) joined #osdev 10:30:55 moo 10:31:15 boo 10:31:24 foo 10:31:36 HuntrCkr: boo! 10:31:41 well, what did i miss? 10:31:57 --- nick: DRF -> DRFaway 10:32:13 yay! 10:32:16 my domain is active! 10:32:17 [18:12] indigo made a C++ kernel 10:32:17 [18:12] ? 10:32:17 [18:12] pavlovskii: ja 10:32:17 [18:12] * pavlovskii is impressed 10:32:19 i think :) 10:32:22 --- join: daxy (you@u195-95-92-213.goplanet.pi.be) joined #osdev 10:32:25 heya 10:32:32 someone try to lookup sempiternity.org! 10:32:36 indigo: HuntrCkr wants advice on C++ kernels 10:32:41 ahh 10:32:42 i see 10:32:50 Name: sempiternity.org 10:32:50 Address: 68.42.49.145 10:32:52 hoorJ! 10:32:54 yay! 10:33:12 -indigo(~daboy@bgp01104776bgs.wbrmfd01.mi.comcast.net)- my email address is now indigo@sempiternity.org :P 10:33:15 w00t! 10:33:19 brb, toast is ready 10:33:25 --- nick: daxy -> dax 10:33:46 started working on daxos a bit today 10:34:01 layed down a nice skeleton 10:34:09 --- join: miro (~miro@pD95595B7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:34:17 --- join: file (joshnet@65.166.122.14) joined #osdev 10:34:20 finished the basic tss, idt, gdt and paging things 10:34:25 mmm... necrophilia... 10:34:37 and started working on teh thing the old daxos missed 10:34:44 a decent kmem system 10:35:03 * indigo configures exim... 10:35:29 and i think i'm going for a microkernel again 10:35:41 but a less-microkernel this time :) 10:35:54 going to keep more of the memory management inside the kernel 10:36:19 someone send me a mail! 10:36:23 indigo: can you host sempiternity.org on your own machine? 10:36:37 pavlovskii: i do :) 10:36:39 indigo: done 10:36:43 hey dax 10:36:43 pavlovskii: except my apache is br0ken 10:36:44 :( 10:36:45 HuntrCkr: you wanted info about c++ kernels btw? 10:36:55 wtf!? 10:36:55 oink! 10:37:00 my mailbox is empty!? 10:37:04 lol 10:37:09 there were bunches of mails in it... 10:37:10 indigo: ah, wait 10:37:15 my postfix isn't running 10:37:18 btw i dumped c++ again 10:37:21 (on my workstation) 10:37:36 ahh...got moved to mbox 10:37:36 maybe gcc generates better binaries for c code 10:37:39 indigo: isn't C++ a bit poo for writing a kernel? 10:37:48 Aug 9 19:36:55 owl postfix/smtp[25624]: DD73EA42: to=, relay=mail.sempiternity.org[68.42.49.145], delay=64, status=bounced (host mail.sempiternity.org[68.42.49.145] said: 550 relaying to prohibited by administrator) 10:38:04 pavlovskii: no, not at all 10:38:05 pavlovskii: no, not really 10:38:18 pavlovskii: you just compile with --fno-exceptions and --fno-rtti 10:38:28 indigo: you don't have to do that even 10:38:36 never used those and my kernels worked 10:38:42 pavlovskii: don't use the std C++ libs (especially STL) and then you have object-oriented C 10:39:03 you can have object-orientated C anyway, without any of the C++ syntactic features 10:39:14 anyway 10:39:16 yea 10:39:21 dax: they may work, but exceptions can be unsafe in kernel code, and using them requires the rtti. The rtti requires runtime support, so it's best to disable it 10:39:23 did you use, say, global constructors? 10:39:30 #dffffff fgdgfd 10:39:35 don't use rtti or exceptions 10:39:37 and it works :) 10:39:38 I'd guess you'd need quite a bit of C underneath it to get it all going 10:39:40 --- quit: aramius (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:39:41 aramius ? 10:39:42 pavlovskii: true, but the C++ syntatical features are nice 10:39:46 hmm 10:39:57 it's a pain doing virtual functions in C 10:40:02 pavlovskii: i don't have any C, just one very short asm program to set up the GDT and such 10:40:45 it's less than one page long 10:41:01 pavlovskii: You're Tim that did the VM86 mode thing on the osjournal www site? 10:41:06 and there are bits of inline asm in the C++ 10:41:09 SnitraM: yep :) 10:41:18 brb, eating 10:41:19 indigo: as you'd expect with any HLL 10:41:20 --- join: HuntrCkr_SA (huntrckr@155.239.116.110) joined #osdev 10:41:21 --- join: lgigi_sul (~sullivan@a-co10-38.tin.it) joined #osdev 10:41:28 pavlovskii: exactly :) 10:41:32 * lgigi_sul is gone. Gone since Fri Aug 9 18:00:00 2002 10:41:34 interesting 10:41:35 --- quit: HuntrCkr (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: HuntrCkr_SA!huntrckr@155.239.116.110))) 10:41:35 pavlovskii: Want feedback? 10:41:40 SnitraM: sure! 10:41:47 --- nick: HuntrCkr_SA -> HuntrCkr 10:42:13 indigo :) 10:42:32 indigo: i heard you have written a kernel in c++ before... 10:42:43 * file waves to everyone 10:42:44 pavlovskii: It states that IOPL > 3 will trap all I/O. I think you want <. 10:43:51 SnitraM: good point 10:44:02 --- join: Aard|work (~Aardappel@217.7.138.114) joined #osdev 10:44:33 --- quit: gigi_sull (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:44:39 btw, SnitraM: why does your surname always contain a '|'? is my character set broken? 10:44:41 --- nick: lgigi_sul -> gigi_sull 10:44:47 or is it deliberate? :) 10:45:14 pavlovskii: However, in VM86 mode IOPL doesn't affect in and out at all. Only the IO bitmap does. IOPL == 3 or influence only the IOPL sensitive instructions (iret et al.). 10:45:41 SnitraM: what's the date on the one you're reading 10:46:02 some guy on alt.os.development (Black Phantom?) corrected me on that 10:46:29 the one I have here dated 16/06/2002 has those two corrections made 10:46:33 pavlovskii: Don't know it doesn't say. It an old Netscrape window that I've saved. 10:46:53 the one currently in the XML CVS should be correct 10:46:59 pavlovskii: Oh good. is the osjournal site updated? 10:47:15 I guess that's up to Jens -- I told him that I'd made the changes but I didn't check 10:47:37 http://osdev.berlios.de/v86.html 10:47:46 says: ...IOPL takes on a different meaning in V86 mode. Instead of denying or allowing port I/O, it instead allows or disallows V86 tasks to make changes to the interrupt enable flag (EFLAGS.IF). 10:48:28 yep, the OS Journal version is wrong :/ 10:49:03 pavlovskii: "|": It's a long story. When computers came to Sweden we used ASCII []{}\| for a with ring and a and o with two dots. 10:49:52 pavlovskii: So | is a small o with two dots. 10:50:22 SnitraM: ah, I thought it was something like that 10:50:27 pavlovskii: Or was. And Unix can't handle > 127 in the passwd file. 10:51:21 so did your C files used to show "if (a öö b)"? :) 10:51:51 pavlovskii: I'm looking at (and reloaded) and it's wrong. 10:53:01 pavlovskii: Not really, we usually used (and I use) ASCII mode (or something like that) so I saw and see || too. 10:54:21 pavlovskii: But if I powerup my twist terminal (that is in Swedish mode) I get really strange propmts (~ maps to u with two dots (but _that_ letter isn't Swedish). 10:54:22 hej 10:54:24 * indigo is back 10:54:26 HuntrCkr: yes, i have 10:54:30 HuntrCkr: what of it? :P 10:55:03 hmmm... i'm thinking about it 10:55:04 humm 10:55:10 oink: did you get that mail sent? 10:55:25 SnitraM: yep, I've mailed Jens about it... I checked the copy at www.osjournal.hopto.org and that's wrong too 10:55:42 can someone please send a mail to indigo@sempiternity.org? 10:55:43 pavlovskii: But \rm is in pronunced like "Uehrm" by hackers. 10:55:48 indigo: any reasons i should not consider doing it in c++? 10:56:20 HuntrCkr: well, it's a pain initially to find all the switches to turn off all the 'features', but I can give you those for gcc 10:56:51 indigo: did I get that mail sent ? 10:56:54 indigo: which mail ? 10:57:07 indigo: that would be great... i had initially started coding in c++, but the code wouldn't link... guess why ;) 10:57:16 HuntrCkr: the only other thing in the symbol mangling, but that can be worked around by either looking in the .o files to see the mangled names of the symbols or using extern "C" 10:57:27 I've managed to get C++ code into the kernel using -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions 10:57:27 oink: you sent me a mail i thought...just to test 10:57:33 indigo: how can I receive a mail I sent ? 10:57:48 HuntrCkr: just look at the tauga cvs from http://sf.net/projects/tauga/ 10:57:49 indigo: indigo@sempiternity.org 10:57:49 SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: 10:57:49 host mail.sempiternity.org [68.42.49.145]: 550 relaying to prohibited by administrator 10:57:57 pavlovskii: hum 10:58:04 19:37 < oink> Aug 9 19:36:55 owl postfix/smtp[25624]: DD73EA42: to=, relay=mail.sempiternity.org[68.42.49.145], delay=64, status=bounced (host mail.sempiternity.org[68.42.49.145] said: 550 relaying to prohibited by administrator) 10:58:10 I pasted this 20 minutes ago 10:58:20 oink, sleeping ;p 10:58:25 erm.. 10:58:31 * indigo wonders if the MX is set propperly... 10:58:39 wossname: I last said 'good night' to zedd heh 10:58:51 indigo: thx 10:59:05 indigo: it is 10:59:11 indigo: er 10:59:13 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:59:30 indigo: you mean, your MTA ? 11:00:02 oink: no, the MX in DNS 11:00:29 i can't even send mail to myself.. 11:00:30 ;; ANSWER SECTION: 11:00:30 sempiternity.org. 257829 IN MX 10 mail.sempiternity.org. 11:00:33 ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: 11:00:33 mail.sempiternity.org. 244869 IN A 68.42.49.145 11:01:12 --- join: lhowe (~louishow@adsl-20-223-92.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 11:03:57 --- quit: SnitraM (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: I440r (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: DRFaway (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: Mathis (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: asmodeus (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: holland (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: eks (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: eKIK (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: ava (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: indigo (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: Rico (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: oink (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: air (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: lar1 (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: Zenton (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:57 --- quit: gpf (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: Javanx (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: eirikn (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: gigi_sull (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: stormbind__ (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: bono (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: trans (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: OS-Bot (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: EtherNet (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: Aard|work (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: HuntrCkr (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: Ubel (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: wossname (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: geist-sleep (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:03:58 --- quit: gab (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:04:05 Oh dear .. 11:06:26 pavlovskii, I have a question for you. Why is "software" task switching faster than using a TSS? 11:06:47 --- quit: miro (Remote closed the connection) 11:09:32 --- join: EtherNet (~Under@lu9dcn.ampr.org) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: OS-Bot (~Simpleirc@203.230.73.22) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: trans (~trans@00-20-78-c9-e5-d1.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: stormbind__ (~stormbind@pD9E61760.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: gigi_sull (~sullivan@a-co10-38.tin.it) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: HuntrCkr (huntrckr@myr53-01-p110.gt.saix.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.39) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: dax (you@u195-95-86-52.dialup.planetinternet.be) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: SnitraM (ams@speedy.ludd.luth.se) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust199.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: DRFaway (~daniel@host213-121-69-219.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@gstw-d9b89f01.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: asmodeus (~www@212.85.70.163) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: holland (~insane@asylum.cad.gatech.edu) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: eKIK (~eKIK@h199n2fls31o858.telia.com) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: eks (~eks@24.70.176.227) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: ava (~jk@chcgil2-ar6-4-47-169-191.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: indigo (~daboy@bgp01104776bgs.wbrmfd01.mi.comcast.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: Rico (Rico@node-c-1c6a.a2000.nl) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: oink (~ziga@void.phear.org) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: air (~cria-user@12-254-199-50.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: gpf (~ben@h0020af25039b.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- join: lar1 (~lar1@adsl-63-204-135-157.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 11:09:32 --- mode: bear.openprojects.net set +v OS-Bot 11:10:07 aah! 11:10:17 --- join: Aard|work (~Aardappel@217.7.138.114) joined #osdev 11:10:17 --- join: Ubel (~jonorn@arnarson.is) joined #osdev 11:10:17 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80362.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 11:10:17 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-65-191-44-105.telocity.com) joined #osdev 11:10:17 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:10:23 Yes, aah indeed 11:10:46 dax: since 06:38AM UTC+2 (?) 11:10:47 06:38 -!- itherfohi is now known as OS-Bot 11:10:48 06:40 -!- mode/#osdev [+v OS-Bot] by ChanServ 11:11:11 --- join: eirikn (eirik@ipv6.eirikn.net) joined #osdev 11:11:41 * oink wonders whose bot it is though 11:12:03 hmm 11:12:47 beh 11:13:03 going to stick to a more clasic way to keep threads this time 11:13:07 Oh well, bye! 11:13:08 just a simple hashtable i think 11:13:19 --- quit: SnitraM ("Bananas!") 11:13:22 ahh... 11:13:27 oki, seems to be working now.. 11:13:41 indigo: yeah, working fine 11:13:42 mail.sempiternity.org [68.42.49.145] 25 (smtp) : Connection refused 11:13:54 hum 11:13:58 try now 11:14:03 same 11:14:06 :/ 11:14:17 yawn 11:14:26 @#*()! 11:14:32 is it running with inetd or as standalone ? 11:14:36 initd... 11:14:36 hey geist 11:14:39 should be standalone.. 11:14:40 initd ? 11:14:42 inetd 11:14:43 :P 11:14:43 heh 11:14:48 howdy 11:14:54 tail /var/log/daemon.log 11:14:58 * geist wakes up late again 11:15:03 or whatever you use to log daemon.* 11:15:04 [19:08] pavlovskii, I have a question for you. Why is "software" task switching faster than using a TSS? 11:15:06 gotta stop staying up so late 11:15:07 cat /etc/syslog.conf 11:15:15 Yes. If you don't mind 11:15:30 lhowe: it may or may not be, doesn't really matter 11:15:32 Aug 9 14:10:45 thor inetd[264]: smtp/tcp server failing (looping), service terminated 11:15:34 mainly because a modern CPU can execute several push/pop instrucitons more efficiently than it can switch TSSes 11:15:35 hm... 11:15:56 ehm 11:16:02 lazy switching can be faster than a reg tss switch i think 11:16:05 standalone now.. 11:16:09 oink: try again plz 11:16:10 works 11:16:11 heya geist btw 11:16:13 ah 11:16:16 though I haven't actually timed it, the software switching is a lot simpler 11:16:17 inetd sucks anyway :) 11:16:27 Aug 9 20:15:30 owl postfix/smtp[25744]: 079563E5: to=, relay=mail.sempiternity.org[68.42.49.145], delay=1, status=sent (250 OK id=17dEJ5-00011j-00) 11:16:34 check your mailbox 11:16:36 i never got tss switching working so i went with software switching :) 11:16:37 but either way, the two methods are certainly within an order of magnitude of each other 11:16:44 The software switching I don't know. I read the intel manual, and I think I could do TSS switchimg, but if there's a faster way that's simpler, then I should learn it 11:16:46 oink: check yours 11:16:50 yes, I would think they are, geist 11:16:53 i wonder how to do ipc in my new daxos kernel 11:16:57 indigo: heh, which one ? 11:17:11 and the entire operation is fast enough that it's pretty much unimportant on anything but a 386 or so 11:17:15 ziga@owl.cuckoos.net 11:17:15 dax: very simple, you need to do following... 11:17:17 is that you? 11:17:20 should i go full blast memory mapped 11:17:28 or register based 11:17:31 or provide both 11:17:33 oink: it is, by your whois :P 11:17:37 ah.. owl.cuckoos.net is my workstation, and void.phear.org (my gateway) don't relay his mails anymore 11:17:39 oink: i replied 11:17:49 oink: oh...well, where can i send mail to you? 11:18:02 ziga@void.phear.org 11:18:21 phear.org hehe 11:18:25 woa, little stuff I know, but I finally got the hw cursor update working :) (well, it seems) 11:18:33 oki, check now 11:19:00 memory management is going to be totaly different in the new daxos 11:19:04 Subject: My mail :P 11:19:04 more traditional 11:19:07 From: Phil Frost 11:19:08 it's fubar you dolt! 11:19:17 :P 11:19:18 yay! 11:19:38 yeah.. fubar, same :) 11:19:39 still got to fix my paging_init routine so that i can run without pse 11:19:43 oink: no, it's not 11:19:48 --- quit: asmodeus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:19:59 oink: fubar is fscked up beyond all recognition 11:20:10 oink: foobar is...well, fubar 11:20:10 that would prolly involve setting up only a few temporary mappings in the beginning and later on mapping the rest 11:20:33 one of my friends has a rabit called fubar 11:20:43 * indigo should get a shirt with "fsck!" on it :P 11:20:52 heheh 11:20:53 i want one too 11:20:56 * oink should print his 'segmentation fault' tshirt 11:21:00 thinkgeek.org probally has 11:21:00 hehe 11:21:04 * geist gotta wake up 11:21:04 * geist tired 11:21:04 * geist go to starbucks 11:21:15 * indigo splashes coffee on gigi_sull 11:21:15 nonono 'general protection fault your arse' 11:21:17 er 11:21:20 geist even 11:21:26 indigo: woa! 11:21:32 heh 11:21:40 * gigi_sull gonna take his cup 11:21:42 gigi_sull: i hope you needed it, that was good coffee :) 11:21:52 sure, thanks bud! :D 11:21:57 heh 11:22:06 * indigo splashes coffee on all the other lurkers to see if they wake up 11:22:06 I hate saying/reading 'GPF'.. reminds me windows 11:22:07 * gigi_sull never refuses coffee! 11:22:17 * indigo splashes coffee on Aardappel 11:22:22 gpf reminds me of something bad 11:22:24 ewww 11:22:27 ow 11:22:33 potato with coffee 11:22:34 wow! 11:22:36 is anyone here old enough to remember the Unrecoverable Application Error 11:22:38 ? 11:22:40 that isn't tasty i think 11:22:45 * indigo splashes coffee on bono 11:22:51 that error rings a bell 11:22:54 dunno why 11:22:56 amiga ? 11:23:00 Windows 3.0 11:23:07 haha 11:23:09 oh yah 11:23:13 UNRECOVERABLE APPLICATION ERROR/Terminating Current Application/[OK] 11:23:17 indigo: I'm just at the beginning and was playing with updating hw cursor (little stuff I know) and know it seems to work :) 11:23:17 well, it worked 2 of 3 times, not bad! 11:23:23 remember seeing it a million times at school 11:23:33 in a big ol' system modal message box 11:23:36 gigi_sull: ah...well, the coffee should help :P 11:23:38 * geist wanders off in search of coffee 11:23:42 indigo: yep ;) 11:23:42 that can't be as bad as the bombs in the old mac se 11:23:47 indigo: it helped, thanks 11:23:48 yah 11:23:50 geist: sorry, i forgot your coffee! 11:23:55 * indigo splashes coffee on geist 11:23:55 teh bombs sucked 11:24:05 macos 9.2 sucks too 11:24:09 * indigo is out of coffee :( 11:24:12 you'd be playing a cool mac game, like onyx, and then 'ding' and no error message 11:24:15 can you splash a venti mocha on me? 11:24:17 dont think so 11:24:19 it'd just lockup and have a half-rendered bomb 11:24:25 geist: too expensive 11:24:35 now, if apache would just work... 11:24:50 onyx 11:24:51 lol 11:24:53 that's oooold 11:24:57 but it owned 11:25:02 one of my favs 11:25:06 though i sucked at it 11:25:08 uh I have to cook something ... maybe gnocchi with pesto, genovese one :) mmmm ja! :D 11:25:09 yeah.. i had a dos shareware, but it didn't work 11:25:15 --- join: file[laptop] (~joshnet@mctnts11d063.nbnet.nb.ca) joined #osdev 11:25:20 there! 11:25:24 we'd play it at school all the time 11:25:44 * file[laptop] finally got Socks5 working with mIRC 11:25:58 brb 11:26:05 is there a cheap mips or (strong)arm development board available? 11:26:11 --- quit: gigi_sull ("(gnam gnam :))") 11:27:25 or 68k 11:27:26 hmm 11:27:56 i want an amiga 11:28:15 what was the MMU like on the Amiga? 11:28:17 i want to port daxos to something 11:28:23 what port is identd? 11:28:56 give me an amiga, dax 11:29:12 hmm 11:29:12 --- quit: HuntrCkr () 11:29:17 wait i'm checking ebay for some 11:30:49 mrm... 11:30:49 amiga 1200 looks the best 11:30:49 found one :) 11:30:49 brb - gotta restart proxy 11:30:49 --- quit: file[laptop] () 11:30:49 how much? 11:30:49 19 mins left 11:30:49 heh! 11:30:49 26£ 11:30:56 and is it working? :P 11:30:58 dax: place a bid for £100000 and you're sure to get it! 11:31:14 i don't want it i think 11:31:16 hmm 11:31:17 amiga 1200 looks like a nice portable dev system 11:31:19 grab a c compiler and go 11:31:28 (as long as you get the c64/128-like case) 11:31:51 bah no paypal 11:32:22 brb 11:34:09 hmm 11:34:17 i want an arm or mips thinggy 11:34:54 ss4 for less than £6 11:34:59 40 mins left 11:35:29 SS4 = ? 11:35:38 sparc station 11:35:52 AMIGA GAME – DUNGEON QUEST (COMPLETE) £0.01 11:36:03 omfg 11:36:08 !!! 11:36:16 yay! 11:36:24 --- quit: geist (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:36:24 --- quit: Aard|work (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:36:24 --- quit: gab (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:36:24 --- quit: Ubel (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:36:24 --- quit: wossname (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:36:24 http://sempiternity.org is up! :P 11:36:30 cool. 11:36:45 --- join: ChillySpy (ChillySpy@ppp028.ppp1.cleveland.nccw.net) joined #osdev 11:37:07 --- join: Aard|work (~Aardappel@217.7.138.114) joined #osdev 11:37:07 --- join: Ubel (~jonorn@arnarson.is) joined #osdev 11:37:07 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80362.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 11:37:07 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-65-191-44-105.telocity.com) joined #osdev 11:37:07 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:37:13 >:} 11:37:27 * indigo botched together a fix for debian's fsckups :) 11:37:30 muhauhah 11:37:30 --- nick: lynx_ -> lynx 11:37:35 hejas lynx 11:37:45 hmm 11:37:50 w00 :) 11:37:56 wussap dudes? 11:38:27 i'm looking for mips or arm thinggies 11:38:27 * indigo got a domain and fixed apache and exim! :P 11:39:07 --- join: file[laptop] (Administra@mctnts11d063.nbnet.nb.ca) joined #osdev 11:39:12 hej file[laptop] ! 11:39:13 are you b0rken? 11:39:18 no... 11:39:21 file[laptop]: did you ship yet? 11:39:25 indigo: no 11:39:27 :( 11:39:48 I'll ship when I ship 11:40:03 heh 11:40:04 dax : thingies or things? embeddded stuff? 11:40:12 dev platforms 11:40:17 dax : oh 11:40:19 dev boards 11:40:23 systems with them whatever 11:40:24 well 11:40:28 --- quit: lhowe () 11:40:35 i am buying a new SGI :P 11:40:36 --- quit: eKIK (Connection timed out) 11:40:43 oh 11:40:46 huh? 11:40:52 well... 11:40:52 you already have one, right? 11:40:52 file[laptop]: hurry! 11:40:58 --- quit: geist (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:40:58 --- quit: Aard|work (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:40:58 --- quit: gab (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:40:58 --- quit: Ubel (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:40:58 --- quit: wossname (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:40:59 geist : ye 11:41:05 lynx: donate your old one to daxos :) 11:41:06 bleh 11:41:12 indigo: time, time. 11:41:13 geist : i want a r10k one + highimpact 11:41:17 --- join: Aard|work (~Aardappel@217.7.138.114) joined #osdev 11:41:17 --- join: Ubel (~jonorn@arnarson.is) joined #osdev 11:41:17 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80362.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 11:41:17 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-65-191-44-105.telocity.com) joined #osdev 11:41:17 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:41:22 indigo: I want my digital camera fast too... 11:41:32 dax : DONATE?! 11:41:39 sigh 11:41:53 uhm 11:41:54 yah 11:41:56 donate :) 11:41:59 geist : well... r10k is quite fancy... 11:42:01 or sell 11:42:05 file[laptop]: ship first...buy later :) 11:42:11 indigo: :p 11:42:18 lynx: oh, so you want something simpler? 11:42:21 like an indy? 11:42:23 file[laptop]: your first priority is those who give you money :) 11:42:32 mmm indy indy give give :) 11:42:33 geist: are you selling yours? 11:42:40 ummm, hmmm 11:42:43 lol 11:42:44 hmmm 11:42:54 mips dev boards are expensive 11:42:55 well, I haven't really used it but I plan on eventually 11:42:58 do you have the fancy indycam ? 11:43:10 it has an indycam, not sure if it's fancy 11:43:11 geist : let her stay with you 11:43:16 it's one of the later models, it's a r5k 11:43:21 with cache 11:43:28 geist : she will love you, give her a stable home 11:43:36 so in theory I can run it in 64-bit mode as well 11:43:37 humumum 11:43:39 indigo: I don't have the money yet though :p 11:43:47 * indigo considers getting an indy 11:43:48 nah, I'll keep it for now 11:43:59 most of them are 4400s 11:44:01 geist : well, yeah .. thought about buying a rs6000 today ... but then i decided to have a better indigo2 heh... 11:44:07 geist: yes 11:44:14 but they're not terribly well documented 11:44:16 geist: in germany they sell r5k only , heh 11:44:26 like 150e 11:44:33 I had to look at a lot of netbsd source code to figure it out, and they're kind of vague on a lot of stuff 11:44:44 i think so 11:45:00 * pavlovskii wants http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2043690850 11:45:02 doesn't really have openfirmware, so it's not as easy to poke around in 11:45:12 well... i just want to code some gui stuff on it, so it is quite fine 11:45:22 pavlovskii: oh that's cute 11:45:27 indigo2 for 46 11:45:30 is that decent 11:45:35 geist : did you look at the linux sources as well? 11:45:39 £46 11:45:49 no, I dont look at linux sources unless I'm really really desperate 11:45:52 pavlovskii : what is it ? i dont have a browser here 11:45:58 geist : lol 11:46:04 it's a complete SPARC Station 11:46:13 minimum big £5 or buy now for £50 11:46:22 well 11:46:25 buy it 11:46:28 heh 11:46:42 nah, get a smaller box 11:46:42 what sparc station is it 11:46:46 I prefer sparcstation lx 11:46:51 it's the fastest lunchbox you can get 11:46:57 * file[laptop] is hungry... so he thinks he'll logoff and go search for food 11:47:00 and it's a sparc v8 (microsparc) 11:47:08 --- quit: file[laptop] () 11:47:12 i'ld like a ss10 or 20 11:47:14 the lunchboxes are the cutest, and store really small 11:47:16 small & quad cpus 11:47:27 oh man if you lived in the bay area you'd be in heaven 11:47:31 ok.. i can decide : rs6000 140 332mhz , hp visualize c200 or upgrade mine to r10k+highimpact 11:47:38 so ..? 11:47:40 weirdstuff warehouse has tons of those 11:47:44 ... 11:47:49 send me a few 11:47:50 heh 11:47:57 send me the money 11:48:03 hmm 11:48:04 lynx: get a new one and I'll have your old one 11:48:09 shipping would be $$$ 11:48:16 they also have indys and indigos and amigas and macs and next boxes and apples, etc 11:48:22 omfg 11:48:32 pavlovskii : hrm... well i have enough spare parts to guve you a solidimpact with r4400 proc 11:48:33 it's wher eI got most of my crap 11:48:38 beh 11:48:42 blast you 11:48:44 ooh 11:48:45 lynx: is that good? 11:48:49 just had a great idea 11:48:52 muahahaha 11:49:03 pavlovskii : just no scsi drive sled ... 11:49:11 pavlovskii : thats what i have at the moment 11:49:17 http://www.weirdstuff.com/ 11:49:19 with a SCSI drive or not? 11:49:20 pavlovskii : i have to win the ebay bidding, though 11:49:21 geist, ooh 11:49:25 huh, they have an online retail store now 11:49:36 http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/html/body_weirdcam.htm 11:49:40 muahahaha 11:49:47 their stock will vanish :) 11:49:48 pavlovskii : it is powerfull 11:49:50 geist: it's not very local :/ 11:49:52 see that last row of computers? those are suns 11:50:05 I think the shipping over here is more than the total cost of any item 11:50:09 pavlovskii : but compared to a pII 400 it is slow 11:50:19 pavlovskii : hr,... it is in europe 11:50:27 what last row 11:50:37 lynx: nah, I was referring to www.weirdstuff.com 11:50:39 the ray 1 ? 11:50:41 pavlovskii : ok 11:50:42 har 11:50:57 pavlovskii: where do you live 11:50:58 then i will have as many sgis as pcs in my house! 11:51:23 dax: in the webcam picture 11:51:26 second link 11:51:32 pavlovskii : www.futuretech.vuurwerk.nl 11:51:40 pavlovskii : there is enough info =) 11:51:49 $84 for a ss20 11:51:50 eww 11:51:56 pavlovskii : my r10k will be like a pII 300 somehow, heh 11:52:10 i got a dual 300 soemthing on the way 11:52:14 will arive next week 11:52:17 the only downside with weirdstuff is they're kind of expensive, though normally if you're there in person you can talk em down 11:52:18 well 11:52:38 dax : for heavy stuff i will use my celeron =) 11:52:45 oh 11:52:53 i use my athlon for heavy stuff 11:52:53 * lynx has luckily MIPS pro compilers 11:52:55 hmm 11:53:05 dax =) 11:53:29 I never did get around to installing irix 6.x on my indy 11:53:33 still has 5.3 11:53:58 i need a sparc and a sgi 11:54:03 or a mac or whatever 11:54:06 dnard 11:54:15 geist : somethign is fucked on my freebsd box so i am not able to do an irix network install :/ my indigo2 is asleep :/ 11:54:19 or one of those alpha multivas 11:54:33 stay away from the multias 11:54:37 why 11:54:38 they're cute but a pain in the ass 11:54:44 just another fan 11:54:47 and it'll do fine 11:54:56 or link it to my watercooler 11:55:08 * geist shrugs 11:55:12 linux runs like shit on it 11:55:23 I never got around to putting anything else on it 11:55:28 like newos :) 11:55:28 oh damn 11:55:31 lol 11:55:34 netbsd? 11:55:47 netbsd and freebsd boot on it, but dont support the console 11:56:02 no ss lx on ebay 11:56:04 sucks 11:56:11 and I didn't have the right serial cable for it 11:56:27 the biggest problem I have with it is it generates an assload of heat 11:56:32 yep 11:56:36 --- quit: pavlovskii ("brb") 11:56:36 alpha heated :) 11:56:45 and since I end up putting it on the table because it's kind of fragile, it heats up the air around your head 11:56:56 since it blows out of the top 11:56:57 lol 11:57:21 anyway, it's kind of cute, but not the speed demon that everyone makes em out to be 11:57:26 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-604.abra.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 11:57:27 * lynx loves his indigo cpu headsink =) 11:57:27 though it boots nt4 really really fast 11:57:37 its like HUUUUUUGGEEEEE 11:57:43 they are like what... bout the speed of a pentium 120 ? 11:57:44 no fan? 11:57:55 --- quit: eks ("gotta change ip, brb") 11:57:55 hum 11:58:03 I recall pc heatsinks getting really really huge before they started requiring fans 11:58:05 file: the money hasn't left my account as of a few hours ago 11:58:19 and now they are huge and require fans 11:58:22 geist : well it is like a 5.25 drive 11:58:24 I had a k5 that would china syndrome on you of you didn't stick a huge heatsink and a fan on top of that 11:58:29 not as high 11:58:35 indy r5000 for £1 11:58:37 good deal? 11:58:38 hehe 11:58:50 is it socket compatible? 11:59:04 with anything? 11:59:06 geist : hwo big is the indy cpu? 11:59:10 hmm 11:59:17 dont remember, it's under a big heatsink 11:59:22 dax : you have a good monitor? 11:59:30 yah 11:59:32 I still love the design of the ss lx 11:59:34 eizo lcds :) 11:59:37 the lunchbox is just so cute 11:59:42 geist : the only thing in my indigo that really heats up are the gfx boards 11:59:47 i want a lunchbox 11:59:54 it has a 3d accellerator in it? 11:59:59 of course 12:00:02 ah 12:00:04 it is an IMPACT class 12:00:04 my indy doesn't 12:00:05 =)) 12:00:10 no ugly elan 12:00:10 comes with a 17" crt 12:00:11 according to the literature 12:00:25 when they came with the r5k's, they never put the indy 3d card in with it 12:00:30 geist : my GPUS have like 480 MFLOPS :P 12:00:39 since running on the r5k itself in software is faster than using the indy 3d card 12:00:46 and the next board will have 960 >:) 12:00:49 the r5k added a bunch of mmx style stuff, I think 12:00:59 if i were to get a sgi, what should i get? 12:01:05 dont 12:01:08 heh 12:01:12 get your stuff working on a dual pc first 12:01:22 hmm 12:01:25 dont make the mistake I did and get everything all at once 12:01:27 yahyahyah 12:01:28 pavlovskii : you got the url? 12:01:34 now I have piles of hardware that I'm not using 12:01:37 but eventually will 12:01:42 like the next slab 12:01:46 dax : www.futuretech.vuurwerk.nl 12:01:47 lynx: for what? 12:01:49 geist: i wouldn't mind the piles of hardware 12:01:53 I bet newos will run terribly on that 12:01:58 pavlovskii : the futuretech one... 12:02:04 lynx: yep, thanks 12:02:10 well, then I'd suggest an indy or indigo 12:02:14 they're reasonably cheap 12:02:18 * pavlovskii is looking up "SGI Indy" on ebay.co.uk 12:02:19 pavlovskii : so you can look and see how my indigo looks (it is the purple one) 12:02:28 I dont think you can find a onyx or o2 for cheap 12:02:32 pavlovskii: there is a £1 on there somewere 12:02:46 dax : get at least an impact class one 12:02:52 wait until the bidding is finished, then see what the price is 12:02:54 hmm 12:03:04 weirdstuff has a few impacts IIRC 12:03:04 dax : they are upgradeable to a good gfx system and look good, too 12:03:23 not really looking for a good gfx system 12:03:27 dax: I know, although the bidding is up to £5.50 now 12:03:30 ^^ expensive 12:03:36 heh 12:03:46 5.5 is still cheaaaap 12:03:50 dax : bah 12:03:53 bidding dont mean nothin till it's finished 12:04:00 dax : then you dont deserve a sgi 12:04:02 dax : die 12:04:06 the experienced bidders will pile in at the last minute 12:04:08 why don't i ? 12:04:15 geist: yea :) 12:04:39 otherwise you just give yourself away too early 12:04:44 wait until it says 2 mins 12:04:46 then bid :) 12:04:49 or 1 mins 12:05:04 whatever 12:05:04 then bid the maximum you'd pay for it and let it sit 12:06:04 almost finished with my mocha 12:06:11 then gotta get ready and go to werk 12:06:24 qn 12:06:27 ah * 12:06:44 still laying around the apartment at noon 12:06:55 but I'm gonna drive today so I can stick around work late 12:07:00 got some stuff to do anyway 12:07:20 yay, another $8 in gas! 12:07:40 hah 12:08:00 that's why spending 3.35 on a mocha doesn't bother me too much 12:08:11 I spend $7-8 to drive to work and back 12:10:14 outta here 12:10:23 going to finish my slab allocator thinggy 12:10:27 cool! 12:10:29 later 12:14:44 --- quit: oink (SendQ exceeded) 12:14:57 --- quit: Aard|work ("http://wouter.fov120.com/") 12:15:09 --- join: oink (~ziga@void.phear.org) joined #osdev 12:15:17 wtf 12:15:22 what was my signoff msg ? 12:15:33 [12:14] *** oink has quit IRC (SendQ exceeded) 12:15:43 pfffrt 12:15:57 well put 12:15:58 I got DoSed by chanserv :p 12:16:13 dumdedum.. 12:18:15 moo 12:18:20 * indigo is happy :) 12:18:26 moo <-- happy 12:18:37 i have a domain... 12:19:43 --- quit: DRFaway (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:24:46 --- part: ChillySpy left #osdev 12:28:37 --- nick: geist -> geist-towork 12:29:10 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:29:25 yay! 12:29:26 http://www.trygve.com/furbeowulf.html 12:35:13 --- join: file[laptop] (Administra@142.166.245.237) joined #osdev 12:41:15 --- quit: pavlovskii () 12:43:33 --- quit: geist-towork () 12:49:42 --- quit: Aardappel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:50:29 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-604.abra.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 12:53:53 pavlovskii! 12:54:04 * file[laptop] sighs 12:54:10 file! 12:54:12 I must eat supper... and then go - SHOPPING! 12:54:19 supper ?! 12:54:23 yes 12:54:26 it's 5pm 12:54:31 you must shut the fuck up 12:54:32 heh 12:54:40 * oink agree 12:54:47 you must, definitely. 12:54:49 Rico! 12:55:19 NO SOUP FOR YOU! 12:55:33 I already eaten couscous, I don't care. 12:55:40 yuck 12:55:45 what ? 12:55:50 I ate scrambled egg 12:55:55 scrambled egg ?!?!?!? 12:56:02 who are you talking to ? 12:56:04 mmmmmm... 12:56:19 people 12:56:25 logically, he is talking to people 12:56:28 yes, creature? 12:56:38 tell me everything is wonderful now 12:56:42 Rico: _YOU_ THINK THERE ARE EGGS IN COUSCOUS ?? 12:56:43 ... 12:57:05 oink: hah, sure!!! 12:57:10 * oink kicks rico 12:57:12 * Rico knows this is a trick question 12:57:16 ;D 12:57:51 couscous is yellow and tastes like dry tasteless rice 12:58:02 dry tasteless rice... pfff 12:58:08 never heard of these things called 'sauce' ? 12:58:09 how can something taste like something that's tasteless? 12:58:14 well, the one time I ate it, it did 12:58:24 ahah 12:58:31 pavlovskii: note the 'dry' 12:58:36 then, 'tasteless rice' 12:59:00 does it taste like dry tasteless strawberries too? 12:59:03 nm 12:59:07 no 12:59:07 .. :) 13:00:25 * Rico starts running around in circles 13:00:50 you know what 13:00:55 couscous is made of sheep meat, couscous itself (semolina ?), sometimes chicken, and carrot.. things like that 13:00:57 I'm gonna check out osnews.com 13:01:00 heh 13:01:02 cool 13:01:20 ah, I forgot spicy sauces :) 13:01:27 indian food? 13:01:32 marocan 13:01:42 that's very spicy, ooooohh, that too 13:02:18 I'm gonna eat that for an half year .. 13:02:18 in holland we have a lot of chinese retaurants, in england they have indian restaurants instead 13:02:20 :P 13:02:32 bleh 13:02:38 the CAT5 is still intefering with my TV 13:02:47 Rico: on the news last night they said there were more Chinese restaurants in the UK now than Indian 13:02:50 well here we don't need restaurant to make couscous, my gran'ma does it :) 13:02:51 something like 5000 of each 13:02:54 file[laptop]: rotfl 13:02:57 haha!!! 13:02:58 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:03:08 --- quit: wossname ("my god, what am i doing here?!") 13:03:08 --- join: I440r (~mark4@67.241.61.199) joined #osdev 13:03:19 if I unplug it from my NIC, the TV is fine 13:03:20 gtg 13:03:25 but if it's plugged in... fuzzy 13:03:33 Behind Enemy Lines is about to start in a minute!!! 13:03:33 file[laptop]: cheap :) 13:03:43 osnews after that 13:03:44 oink: the CAT5? no it's expensive 13:03:48 it's the plenum outside stuff 13:04:03 huh 13:04:13 well mine doesn't interfer with my TV :P 13:04:23 mine does... not made for inside 13:04:33 * file[laptop] will probably get different stuff 13:04:41 sure it's not your NICs ? 13:04:48 it could be 13:04:53 oink: I moved the CAT5... it's better 13:04:58 ah 13:09:04 file[laptop]: i hope if you are shopping for a camera that you have sent my helio :P 13:10:04 btw, what's this 'helio' ? :) 13:11:02 indigo: I'm not, I have to go to get my school stuff 13:11:06 the camera is already reserved for me 13:11:13 oink: it's a PDA that runs Linux, and a GUI 13:11:27 heh 13:11:46 * indigo ponders buying speakers 13:12:40 i can afford them now...but my expenses are going up... 13:12:43 humm... 13:12:50 speakers....financial security... 13:12:55 * indigo can't decide :) 13:13:56 bbl - eating 13:14:03 'financial security' ? 13:14:18 * oink feels ignorant today 13:16:30 oink: knowing that you have the money you need 13:16:39 or not being at risk of running out of money 13:16:47 ah 13:17:05 n/m 13:17:28 I thought of something else :) 13:21:09 silly german... 13:21:22 german !?!?!?! 13:21:24 who ? 13:21:26 canadian 13:21:26 heh 13:21:30 canadian ? 13:21:32 hrm 13:21:33 WHO ? :) 13:21:41 ethopean? 13:21:47 humm... 13:21:48 .. who ? :) 13:21:50 south african? 13:21:53 erm... 13:21:56 figite? 13:22:05 * oink . o O ( .. huh ? .. ) 13:22:09 heh 13:22:22 whois my IP, you'll know where I live 13:23:17 luxembourg? 13:23:25 my IP, not my domain 13:23:30 oh..... 13:23:46 well, i can't get your ip 13:23:50 .. ? 13:23:52 not on opn anyway... 13:24:05 void.phear.org A 62.212.111.210 13:24:47 back 13:24:59 pff 13:25:00 france 13:25:05 i thought you were from germany though... 13:25:32 * file[laptop] sighs 13:25:40 I can't lookup IPs and such 13:25:50 * indigo wonders if file[laptop] shipped indigo's helio yet 13:25:53 file[laptop]: whois -h whois.ripe.net IP 13:26:02 I didn't :p 13:26:11 file[laptop]: hurry! :P 13:26:19 indigo: I can't :p 13:26:28 oink: well, confused am clear i me up! 13:26:37 file[laptop]: don't forget an Insurrance in case they loose the package or break it 13:26:51 * oink pokes indigo 13:26:53 oink: I know 13:26:57 * indigo falls over 13:27:25 oink: so, am i right? 13:27:35 indigo: about me living in France ? :) 13:27:50 yes, and the other stuff too 13:27:59 * file[laptop] will ship the Helio next month :[p 13:27:59 :p 13:28:06 yes, you are, you win, I lose. 13:28:13 TEH END. 13:28:13 HA! 13:28:19 * indigo is always right :) 13:28:45 heh 13:28:47 except of course when he's wrong... 13:28:55 I got a call from an american guy today 13:29:02 * oink wonders who it could be .. 13:29:12 oink: did he say "Gee! Howdy, Frenchie!" 13:29:18 * file[laptop] notes it couldn't be him 13:29:46 pavlovskii: he didn't ? 13:29:55 --- join: DRF (Daniel@host213-121-70-244.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 13:30:20 Hello Daniel. 13:31:31 Hu oink 13:31:34 Hi ^ 13:31:42 How are you? 13:32:08 Fine, and You ? 13:32:09 j/k 13:32:11 fine :) 13:33:16 lol, I'm good, just found a bug in my bootloader that I've been chasing for the last 2 days lol 13:34:04 snap - I just found a bug in my kernel I've been chasing for the last 2 days 13:34:05 2 days of tracing a bug and I fixed it in 2 lines of code. Seems like such a waste of time lol 13:34:25 mine was a copy & paste error in 1 line -- got two variables mixed up 13:34:39 lol, what sort of kernel do you have pavlovskii? 13:34:54 monolithic, with separate loadable drivers 13:35:19 Ah, I need to get onto kernel design soon. 13:36:21 My bug was I put a special value into a register and then called a procedure which over wrote the register with a different value. So I just had to save the value on the stack to fix it. 13:38:21 * indigo sings 13:39:01 * DRF thinks of all the work he could have done in 2 days lol 13:41:26 * oink notices that DRF can't put three lines in a row without a 'lol' 13:41:29 DRF: are you stressed ? :P 13:41:56 --- quit: eirikn (No route to host) 13:44:00 oink: Err, lack of sleep, large amounts of coffee, programs not working, no money, exam results out in under a week.... 13:44:20 * DRF needs a holiday 13:44:33 hehe :) 13:53:28 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 13:57:04 --- quit: file[laptop] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:02:24 --- quit: EtherNet (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:05:06 hum 14:05:21 are RFCs restricted to computer stuffs, or are there RFCs for other things too? 14:06:38 --- quit: DRF (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:09:55 --- quit: pavlovskii (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:10:06 --- join: DRF (Daniel@host213-121-70-244.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 14:21:34 figaro figaro figaroooooo 14:22:08 Who said what to me? 14:23:12 huh :) 14:23:49 --- join: df (~yakumo@host217-35-52-193.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #osdev 14:32:46 --- quit: bono ("leaving") 14:33:20 --- join: HeavyJoost (~HeavyJoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 14:33:37 --- quit: DRF (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:34:17 --- join: pavlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-637.arcanine.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 14:37:57 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@gc-nas-01-s78.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 14:40:57 --- quit: HeavyJoost (Remote closed the connection) 14:41:23 --- join: eirikn (eirik@2001:618:4:2000:0:0:0:160) joined #osdev 14:43:42 --- quit: df ("syntax: slartibartfast") 14:50:14 back 15:05:07 --- join: HeavyJoost (~HeavyJoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 15:06:28 --- join: Raptor-32 (~rick@209.202.63.23) joined #osdev 15:06:34 --- part: HeavyJoost left #osdev 15:12:39 --- join: bono (~forsy@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 15:13:09 --- join: gigi_sull (~sullivan@212.216.28.61) joined #osdev 15:13:13 Aiee :) 15:13:14 Hello! 15:13:47 waaah! 15:14:06 hey pav :) 15:16:00 I think I'll re-read your memory management tutorials. I'm too confused about that topic and about memory layout. It's a quite hard topic for a beginner as I am :) 15:16:11 yes, paging too ... 15:16:25 gigi_sull: segmentation! segmentation! :)) 15:16:30 "... I shall overcome" at least I hope. 15:17:34 bono: eh, I'll use just segmentation at the minimal as x86 require to properly set up and using paging (always present segments that do overlap to span the well-known 4GB addressable space) 15:17:46 :) 15:18:01 * pavlovskii wonders how he could write a C compiler for a segmented OS 15:18:20 hmm... as long as program data and stack were aliased, it would be ok 15:18:24 that would be a really pain, if possible. 15:18:41 hmm, but what about accessing far data pointers obtained from the OS? 15:18:54 solution: make all pointers far 15:19:01 and pass seg16:ofs32 everywhere 15:19:11 hmmm... 48 or 64 bits per pointer 15:19:11 that's an idea 15:19:42 which is what C programs used to do on DOS with a "large" memory model, except they needed 32 bits for segment and offset 15:19:48 however I'm already too much confused by myself about what I said before. This "mumbling" will get me crazy ;) 15:23:38 pavlovskii: why not simply start by writing a segment enabled linker? which would allow all sections to be in separate segments? 15:25:07 I'm just thinking about having some cake since I'm in a no way about mm understanding right now (maybe it's too late too ;)) 15:26:24 bono: the hard part is not in the linking but in the code generation 15:26:38 i.e. where to use far pointers or segment register loads, and where to use near pointers 15:27:21 * pavlovskii prefers cake to memory management 15:27:25 pavlovskii: you can forget far pointers at first and simply enable distinct mem segments for each section... while keeping all pointers near... 15:27:59 pavlovskii: yes but that's since you KNOW mm :) 15:28:09 you mean different CPU segments for code, data and stack? 15:28:14 i bet you he knows cake as well! ;) 15:28:22 I know cake better than MM! 15:28:43 eheheh :) 15:28:55 sure 15:29:12 but my phrase didn't exclude that 15:29:57 however, I'll have that cake :) 15:30:20 * gigi_sull gives pavlovskii a cake too 15:30:30 * gigi_sull gives bono a cake too 15:30:39 gigi_sull: thanks! 15:30:51 np :) 15:31:00 * oink pukes 15:31:09 woa, oink too! 15:31:20 oink: problem with your cake? 15:31:22 I ate too much :< 15:32:06 hey all 15:32:15 and now I'm going to bed so, good night everyone :) 15:32:21 mmm ok, so there's a cake left. Anyone? :) 15:32:24 nite oink 15:33:08 * oink throws the last cake to bono's face 15:33:41 if I don't respond soon it's because of my CD... I have to wait for it to cycle to the net song 15:33:43 er next song 15:34:43 --- join: eKIK (~eKIK@213.66.134.199) joined #osdev 15:35:43 * file hums 15:38:47 --- join: Aardappel (wvo96r@80.140.117.230) joined #osdev 15:50:06 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 15:50:33 eks: your CDs work, kinda 15:50:38 --- quit: eKIK () 15:54:14 --- join: CHORT (nhl@80.232.243.34) joined #osdev 15:55:32 file: hrm.. 15:55:45 file: more details? 15:55:58 sonce im developing my own os, i have collected a lot of documentation, hope it is helpful to someone: http://osdev.pods.lv/dir_list?dir=documentation/ 15:57:03 eks: well... 15:57:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o eks 15:57:19 --- kick: CHORT was kicked by eks (very useful) 15:57:19 --- join: CHORT (nhl@80.232.243.34) joined #osdev 15:57:24 --- mode: eks set -o eks 15:57:29 heh? 15:57:38 eks: it plays in the living room player, it doesn't play in my player, it plays in my computer but if I forward the computer says there's no CD 15:57:43 CHORT: go sit in a corder 15:58:05 are the docs that bad? 15:58:09 file: huhuh.. 15:58:18 eks: huh? 15:58:19 lynx: no, that's what it says on the page "go sit in a corner", nothing else 15:58:31 eks: very strange 15:58:34 lol 15:58:36 eks, u typed the addrsess or c/pasted? 15:58:42 CHORT: copy/pasted 15:58:42 --- quit: bono () 15:59:01 must have '/' at the end 15:59:10 eks: go sit in a corder 15:59:12 .. 15:59:17 * lynx pets eks 15:59:28 pavlovskii: right.. I'll go sit in the _corder_ ;) 15:59:30 * lynx gives eks one of his special cookies 16:00:03 lynx: ;) 16:00:29 * lynx just knows corded 16:00:32 CHORT: eks can't copy & paste 16:00:38 I thought your docs were brilliant 16:00:42 * lynx connects that to latex which would uniquely fit to eks... 16:01:08 ...fit to eks (TM)... 16:01:11 well, except the guy trying to document the .COM file format 16:01:19 breb 16:01:23 toilet time 16:01:27 CHORT: sorry about kickin you, I felt an evil need to kick someone for my own mistake ;) 16:01:37 no problem. 16:01:48 eks : good excuse 16:02:18 yes .com is badly documented. 16:02:52 I don't think so -- the only documentation you can write about it is "64KB or less in length", "loads at offset 100h" and "CS==DS==ES==SS" 16:04:07 pavlovskii: don't forget to note that you can rename a .EXE with .COM and that it will still work ;) 16:04:31 eks: indeed... only a couple of hours ago was I stepping through Windows 2000's MODE.COM in the debugger 16:04:39 it's a fully 32-bit native Win32 application 16:04:41 moo 16:04:57 indigo: moooo 16:06:05 mo 16:06:05 how do i print the first X chars of a string? 16:06:05 --- quit: Raptor-32 ("BitchX: it does a body good") 16:06:27 air: in what language? 16:06:31 is there an nprintf function? 16:06:43 i know there isnt but is there something like it 16:06:44 air: printf("%.5s", str); 16:06:50 or printf("%.*s", 5, str); 16:06:57 ok 16:07:11 CHORT: nice doc about protected mode that you've got there 16:07:53 * lynx knew thatz, too!! 16:07:54 yay 16:07:57 * lynx knew something 16:08:06 thanks 16:08:23 eks, Embedded X86 Programming: Protected Mode, this one? 16:08:39 CHORT: yeah, the >600KB pdf one 16:08:56 i have all of those docs printed, just cant find time to read them 16:09:27 * lynx is listening to Radio Grenuille 16:09:37 also in my opinion its not worth coding os before you have read manuals 16:09:51 havent 16:10:00 lynx: sur la magnetophone? 16:10:09 "My reason to write an OS? *Get fame & glory, dominate the world +g+" lol 16:10:23 +g+ 16:10:25 pavlovskii: s/la/le/ 16:10:43 * file yawns 16:10:46 eks: thx, however you missed the other deliberate mistake: you don't listen to the radio on a tape player! :p 16:11:35 pavlovskii : oui 16:11:38 pavlovskii : hrm 16:11:44 --- quit: gigi_sull (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:11:48 pavlovskii: you can always record it and listen to it afterward 16:11:54 pavlovskii : que est-ce que tu as fait maitenant? 16:11:58 eks: tres vrai 16:12:08 lynx: je debug mon kernel 16:12:14 =) 16:12:17 fromage! 16:12:17 la systeme des fichiers 16:12:26 --- join: gigi_sull (~sullivan@a-co10-37.tin.it) joined #osdev 16:12:36 * gigi_sull is gone. Gone since Sat Aug 10 00:50:00 2002 16:12:52 heh 16:12:53 lol 16:13:23 CHORT: are you on ISDN? 16:13:23 pavlovskii : tu utilises quel FS ? 16:13:58 * eks hopes it's ext2 16:14:16 lynx: en ce moment, j'utilise l'ext deux et la Table d'Allocation des Fichiers 16:14:27 eks, no dsl 16:14:29 pavlovskii : c`est bon 16:14:40 poor, cut-off cheap dsl 16:14:42 mais, en ce moment, je debug le S.F. des devices 16:15:00 aye 16:15:19 le malloc, c'est caca! 16:15:23 CHORT: ehehe, slow upstream ya got ;) 16:15:24 lol 16:15:28 caca! 16:15:37 thats like eks talks .... ;) 16:15:44 lynx: ?? 16:15:56 eks : cheap canadian french! 16:16:08 lynx: I spoke like that only when I was < 3 y/o 16:16:17 eks, osdev.pods.lv is located on a server not belonging to me, and its in a distance of 80km from me :) 16:16:31 eks : bah 16:16:58 what is .lv? 16:17:17 Latvia 16:17:35 where u from if u dont know .lv? 16:18:56 well 16:18:56 uhmm 16:19:08 hehe 16:19:11 didnt know that latvia is lettland in german 16:19:11 he is from germany 16:19:37 ja, Lettland ist Latvia 16:19:44 heh 16:19:50 =) 16:19:53 +g+ 16:19:59 extended memory is adress space right ? 16:20:31 extended memory = memory above 1MB 16:20:38 convetional memory = memory below 1MB 16:20:50 in pmode, they are both the same 16:21:30 so with extended and convetional memory they mean the adress space 16:22:02 yes 16:24:45 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by queer") 16:25:16 it's late.. 16:25:22 night. 16:25:36 gn CHORT 16:25:36 --- quit: CHORT () 16:30:57 mooooo 16:31:16 * indigo works away on sempiternity 16:34:53 --- join: _avlovskii (pavlovskii@modem-559.awesome.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 16:35:12 --- quit: pavlovskii (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 16:35:17 --- nick: _avlovskii -> pavlovskii 16:39:58 anyone bussy with minix ? 16:41:16 probally not :) 16:45:46 --- quit: eirikn ("Segmentation fault") 16:53:50 time to leave ;) 16:53:57 good nite. 16:54:02 --- quit: gigi_sull ("puf!") 16:57:19 * indigo goes away 17:06:18 --- quit: Aardappel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:07:29 gn all 17:17:52 --- join: cookin (~jrydberg@d212-151-39-148.swipnet.se) joined #osdev 17:18:12 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 17:36:51 whee! I have an ext2 volume as my root file system! 17:37:27 good for you. 17:38:12 up until I tweaked part of my VFS interface I could only have file systems mounted under root 17:38:39 now I can mount my devfs and ramfs under a non-root file system, which means that an ext2 volume can contain the whole thing 17:40:49 sweet 17:40:59 * file erms? 17:42:20 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 17:44:06 --- part: futhin left #osdev 17:54:16 --- quit: bono ("leaving") 17:54:25 --- quit: pavlovskii () 17:55:52 --- quit: cookin ("Client Exiting") 18:06:07 --- quit: nbsp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:12:34 how would i tell if midnight falls between time A and the current time? 18:15:55 make a time2secs() function that gets the number of elapsed seconds since midnight. Check if Time A time2secs() is lower than current time time2secs() value 18:16:54 --- quit: Ubel ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1") 18:18:55 nm, i can just use a timeval and compare tm_yday 18:36:55 --- quit: Javanx ("I don't feel a thing, and i stopped remembering. The days are just like moments tourned to hours") 18:38:31 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:39:39 heh 18:39:53 there is a quebecois speaking french on the radio :/ 18:55:15 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:02:40 --- join: EtherNet (~Under@lu9dcn.ampr.org) joined #osdev 19:04:11 --- part: EtherNet left #osdev 19:06:06 --- join: karingo (karingo@36.portland-05-10rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 19:06:47 --- join: EtherNet (~Under@lu9dcn.ampr.org) joined #osdev 19:08:36 wwowww very few people here, why ? 19:08:45 hrm 19:08:48 maybe netsplit 19:08:54 no 19:08:59 they are all asleep =) 19:09:01 ohh OPN sucks! 19:09:24 lynx when you begin the school again ? 19:10:11 * file hrms 19:10:17 my connection is quite fast... scary 19:10:26 EtherNet : hrm... 5 weeks =) 19:11:33 lynx ohhh cool 19:12:39 lol 19:20:06 FOODD!!!!!!! 19:33:20 --- join: fd0man (fd0man@main-a-40.dialins.utoledo.edu) joined #osdev 19:35:21 --- part: fd0man left #osdev 19:36:11 i have a question about ata drivers 19:36:28 if you wanna read from data register 19:36:46 drq bit must be set at 1 19:37:12 and if drq has 0 value the reading or writting is ignored 19:37:18 what does it mean? 19:37:40 what happens to in, out instruction you have done? 19:38:20 cos standard says that reading/writting cycle is ignored, not that result is indeterminate 19:39:07 mmm 19:47:47 --- join: smarth (smarth@modemcable025.53-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 20:04:33 --- part: EtherNet left #osdev 20:06:16 --- join: xcasex (beos-BONE@c-1a6471d5.05-28-756d651.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 20:06:36 --- quit: xcasex (Client Quit) 20:11:03 --- join: nbsp (g@ip68-14-60-55.no.no.cox.net) joined #osdev 20:19:28 --- join: trans (~trans@209.53.48.172) joined #osdev 20:29:06 http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/fun-stuff/3884.shtml <-- uber cool! 20:31:47 --- quit: I440r (No route to host) 20:41:05 --- join: EtherNet (~Under@lu9dcn.ampr.org) joined #osdev 20:46:16 nite 20:46:38 --- nick: lynx -> lynx_zZz 21:04:29 --- quit: karingo (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:06:38 time to sleep I think, good night for everybody 21:13:31 gn EtherNet 21:14:08 eks how are you ? 21:16:15 EtherNet: good 21:16:24 just finished version 1.1 of my u3fdgen tool 21:16:28 cool 21:16:36 :P 21:21:59 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:26:47 --- join: Sepher (~Sepher@a213-22-152-102.netcabo.pt) joined #osdev 21:29:46 is there a way to see all the man pages that a word is on? 21:30:12 air apropos word 21:30:24 eh? 21:30:37 ah thanks 21:30:48 apropos word-to-find 21:31:10 is there something a bit smarter? 21:31:27 I don't know, that's which I use 21:31:42 that returned about a thousand entries 21:32:16 is there a function that prints the time/date and isnt broken? 21:32:20 ohh very bad 21:32:26 apropos word | grep subject 21:32:28 :) 21:32:35 air I have no idea 21:32:50 --- join: futhin_ (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 21:32:50 ctime does the job but its busted 21:33:03 unless this is really the year 200 21:33:14 heheh 21:34:00 --- nick: futhin_ -> futhin 21:34:07 oops 21:35:18 --- part: futhin left #osdev 21:35:27 maybe ctime isnt busted 21:37:07 EtherNet you know the name of a game that uses opengl, is an AI. game i think,,, like sneak game!! 21:37:34 --- quit: smarth () 21:40:52 --- nick: Sepher -> Sepher|AW 21:40:58 * Sepher|AW is away: no reason... 21:58:12 --- quit: eks ("gn") 22:15:42 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 22:22:56 --- quit: stormbind__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:24:01 --- join: stormbind__ (~stormbind@pD9E6198B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 22:25:34 --- quit: bono ("Lost terminal") 22:47:11 --- join: trans (~trans@00-20-78-c9-e5-d1.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 23:41:29 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable171.3-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 23:55:00 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.08.09