00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.10.31 00:13:10 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:19:54 --- join: aevirex (aevirex@L0944P23.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #osdev 00:20:01 hi guys 00:20:46 hello???? 00:23:24 --- quit: malenfant ("sleep...") 00:27:09 hi 00:28:30 --- quit: aevirex ("aevirex has no reason") 00:31:59 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 00:36:08 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:42:07 --- quit: sleep- ("adios") 00:52:14 "hey fred, i think i fried the motherboard, and the fatherboard too" 00:52:20 i love that commercial :) 01:03:36 --- join: foofoo (foofoo@dialup-64.158.64.146.Dial1.SaltLakeCity1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 01:10:24 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 01:16:35 --- nick: geist-tohome -> geist 01:26:36 functions.h: s_num * numberCreate ( ); 01:26:36 functions.h: s_num * numberCreateFromString ( s_string *s ); 01:26:43 parse.c: n_num = numberCreate(n_string); 01:26:56 C didnt give me a warning or error for that 01:27:20 in C, empty function decls mean basically (...) 01:27:25 ie, any number of args 01:27:37 which is why a good C programmer will always put 01:27:39 int foo(void); 01:27:50 one of the subtle differences between C and C++ 01:28:13 it's a total historical holdover from K&R C 01:28:14 hmm 01:28:25 before function prototypes were even in the language 01:29:09 they should fix that 01:29:20 they may have with c99 01:29:25 but it's 'fixed' in c++ 01:29:41 isnt gcc c99? 01:30:34 not by default 01:30:48 gcc 3.x can do most of c99 with -C99 or some flag 01:30:57 but 2.95.x is *definitely* not c99 01:31:23 a lot of the c99 changes are in the standard libs too, and I'm not sure that's complete yet 01:31:38 or if anyone even cares about c99 for that matter 01:32:01 since for the most part c++ is a superset of that 01:32:30 and a lot of the c99 features are just gcc extensions that were already in place (variable arrays on the stack, etc) 01:32:43 or features from c++ (var declarations anywhere in the function body) 01:36:30 so anyway, everyone do this right now: go through all your code and change every function decl and prototype in C with no args to (void) 01:36:43 it'll bite you in the ass in a strange way later on if you dont 01:38:22 nah 01:39:12 another C ism you can get away with but isn't kosher in C++: implicit return type of int 01:39:26 you can declare a function with no return type and it's implicitly int 01:39:39 hmm 01:39:39 bad bad, along with implicit function declarations in general 01:39:42 stay away from them 01:40:07 a lot of that stuff is holdovers from early early C 01:40:17 and they didn't remove it in later ANSI standardizations of it 01:40:33 i always use void when there isnt a return type 01:40:48 thats 01:40:50 that's proper 01:41:48 but anyway, *always* make sure everything is prototyped, implicit prototyping is *bad* 01:42:26 ie, allowing it to make up a prototype based on the first usage pattern it sees, and letting it emit the implicit prototype warning is bad 01:42:31 i only prototype external functions 01:42:49 what about internal ones that are used before they are instantiated? 01:43:00 you dont prototype it at the beginning of the .c file? 01:43:16 i organized them so the function is defined before use 01:43:29 but you can't always guarantee that 01:43:56 anyway, in the rare case that you can't do that, make sure you prototype it, otherwise the compiler will make up a prototype for you and emit a warning 01:44:00 I always turn that warning on 01:44:00 i usually do but if i cant i do prototype it 01:44:11 good man 01:44:21 I also suggest compiling always with -Wall -W 01:44:28 but that's just me 01:44:36 CFLAGS = -g -O2 -Wall 01:44:42 add -W as well 01:44:49 it turns on some more after -Wall 01:44:50 what is that 01:44:58 just another level of warnings 01:45:16 hmm 01:45:41 thats producing warnings i dont wanna see :) 01:45:52 like the unused args? that one sucks 01:46:09 ya 01:46:24 lemme see what I compile with.... 01:46:51 -Wall -W -Wno-multichar -Wno-unused -Wmissing-prototypes 01:47:05 -Wall -W turns em all on 01:47:18 -Wno-multichar lets you do fun stuff like int foo = 'ABDE' 01:47:39 -Wno-unused turns off the warning about unused args (and unfortunately unused variables, which is handy) 01:48:07 -Wmissing-prototypes *requires* that you prototype *every* function, which is kind a bitch, but keeps you honest 01:48:23 well, it makes you prototype every non-static function 01:50:02 hmm 01:50:44 -W -Wno-unused would be niced if it still showed unused vars 01:50:48 nice 01:51:00 yeah, that's kind of an oversight on their part 01:51:19 though I haven't checked newer gcc's, maybe they added a seperate switch for unused args vs unused vars 01:51:41 the other thing you can do is have some sort of TOUCH macro and leave the unused args on, but that sucks too 01:51:51 ie, #define TOUCH(x) ((x) = (x)) 01:52:20 int foo(int a, int b) { TOUCH(a); TOUCH(b); return 0; } 01:57:10 hmm 01:58:17 that touch macro is fine in C, but dangerous in c++ since it may emit a call to the '=' operator on a class 01:58:30 or even on a non class (if you set up a global '=' operator function) 01:59:10 but you dont need it in c++, since it's legal to leave out the variable name on c++ declarations if it's unused 01:59:20 ie, int foo(int, int, int c) {} 02:00:27 anyway, sleep time for me 02:00:29 --- nick: geist -> geist-sleep 02:00:30 night 02:01:43 --- join: _Bradd_ (~bbobak@d57-52-229.home.cgocable.net) joined #osdev 02:15:09 --- quit: foofoo () 02:15:37 --- quit: minddog ("Client Exiting") 02:16:12 --- join: minddog (~minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 02:32:03 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:49:50 --- join: amon-re (ddefreyne@D5E065D0.kabel.telenet.be) joined #osdev 02:58:03 AHMOHN 03:01:07 --- join: Liesbeth (Simon@9.38-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 03:01:23 wow. 03:01:25 she made it 03:01:29 fu 03:01:34 common guys give her an aplause 03:01:35 hmm 03:01:38 ... 03:01:44 was that a request? 03:01:44 das gemeen van je 03:01:51 mb 03:01:55 ;) 03:02:06 Hey. 03:02:10 denis! 03:02:15 hoeissie? 03:02:21 english mb. 03:02:26 zeeeeeergoedankuwel 03:02:30 m 03:02:32 b 03:02:48 This si english room so we should use t3h 3ngl15 5p34k 03:03:04 ok 03:03:17 i'll be quiet than 03:03:21 amon-re: are you ignoring me btw? 03:03:30 ever since that cow remark? 03:03:56 Wow 03:04:01 Undernet -- #mp3passion 03:04:15 I haven't seen so many people in one channel. 03:04:29 Help, I'm suffocating 03:04:31 irc.criten.net #xdcc 03:04:37 like uhm 2500 peeps in there sometime 03:04:52 I can't leave, wtf 03:05:02 1000 here 03:05:08 And they're all trading mp3s 03:05:14 (wow) 03:05:38 hmm 03:06:30 small channel... 03:06:52 Heh 03:07:53 irc.criten.net and go to #xdcc 03:07:56 that's a biggy 03:10:41 hooray 03:14:56 --- join: grems (gremlin@sb.school.rs.ba) joined #osdev 03:15:23 --- part: Liesbeth left #osdev 03:26:45 --- join: draq (ident@ESS-p-144-138-45-70.mega.tmns.net.au) joined #osdev 03:32:09 --- join: lodda (~lodda@p508FDF45.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 03:32:19 huhu 03:32:38 --- quit: amon-re (Excess Flood) 03:32:43 --- join: amon-re (ddefreyne@D5E065D0.kabel.telenet.be) joined #osdev 03:32:49 --- quit: amon-re (Remote closed the connection) 03:32:53 hmm 03:33:02 heya lodda 03:33:05 --- join: amon-re (ddefreyne@D5E065D0.kabel.telenet.be) joined #osdev 03:33:10 hi dax 03:34:37 sup 03:34:53 soup :o 03:36:29 ... 03:37:43 TEA 03:37:43 daxie! 03:37:51 --- quit: _Bradd_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:38:21 Robbie! 03:39:55 loddie! 03:44:16 --- nick: minddog -> minddog[zz] 03:44:57 --- quit: grems ("leaving") 03:44:58 my gimp skillz suck. 03:45:04 --- quit: draq (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:45:30 gimp = grrr 03:46:49 limp! @$#!$@#! 03:49:43 moo 03:51:59 * dax is trying to think of a name/design for his 3d engine like thinggy 03:52:20 hum 03:52:48 * indigo was doing that a few months ago 03:53:50 ah 03:56:31 i kinda like the powerrender api 03:56:38 can't find any docs on it htough 03:58:59 * file stabs this transfer 03:59:56 oh well this'll have to do 04:00:47 egads! it deleted the file! 04:01:02 oh well bbl 04:02:09 hi all. 04:02:15 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 04:13:45 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.12) joined #osdev 04:26:54 --- join: lynx (~root@p50809366.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 04:37:59 --- quit: lynx ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it.") 04:40:40 --- join: DorkPunk (~raj@cs24160124-71.houston.rr.com) joined #osdev 04:40:44 Good morning, #osdev. 04:41:51 --- join: miro (~miro@picknicker.codeon.de) joined #osdev 04:44:18 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:46:08 hi DorkPunk 04:46:17 and Mirolein 04:47:08 Hello, Mr. lodda. :-) 04:47:23 i'm thinking bout a cluster :)) 04:47:52 5 puters, so it is very small 04:48:09 but still to expensive for me :/ 04:48:11 Wow, what do you want to use this cluster for? 04:48:47 i don't know, simulating a-bomb explosions on my teachers' house maybe 04:49:50 LoL 04:55:35 1909.70 euro, 5 PCs, 1.1Ghz, 256Mb-ram or 512Mb(Master), 30Gb hd 04:56:33 What is the exchange rate between 1 euro and 1 dollar? 04:57:05 0,8 euro = 1 dollar maybe 04:57:28 bbl, ½ hour 04:57:41 Okay. 04:58:11 --- quit: lodda ("leaving") 04:59:02 --- quit: amon-re ("www.squonkamatic.net/playerprolounge") 05:00:12 --- quit: miro (Remote closed the connection) 05:01:36 moo 05:01:38 * indigo goes to work 05:05:15 --- join: quantis (quantis@130.88.157.186) joined #osdev 05:05:33 ello 05:06:44 Good morning, quantis. 05:07:02 hows you? 05:10:11 I am just fine, thanks. :-) 05:10:14 quantis - Are you writing a kernel? 05:15:32 --- quit: DorkPunk (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: _DorkPunk!~raj@cs24160124-71.houston.rr.com))) 05:18:08 --- join: zhware (~stoyan@p29c707.osakac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp) joined #osdev 05:19:42 --- quit: HeavyJoost (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:30:26 --- join: Ogun (~ogun@h197n2fls31o865.telia.com) joined #osdev 05:35:49 --- join: witten_ (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 05:40:29 --- quit: zhware ("Client Exiting") 05:41:57 --- quit: Ogun (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:41:57 --- quit: Javanx (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:41:57 --- quit: zZzToxic (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:41:57 --- quit: witten (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:00 --- quit: gab (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:00 --- quit: dax (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: Divine (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: spyck (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: ric (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: Zenton (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: wli (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:01 --- quit: lar1 (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:42:45 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 05:44:08 --- join: darkito_ (darkito@80-25-82-102.uc.nombres.ttd.es) joined #osdev 05:44:10 hihi 05:44:20 ello 05:45:20 Hi darkito_ :D 05:45:55 hey robert 05:46:08 how's going? 05:46:24 here's the teacher day 05:48:03 Fine... reading some docs about floppy controllers. 05:48:03 Teacher day? 05:48:46 --- join: Ogun (~ogun@h197n2fls31o865.telia.com) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.12) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: zZzToxic (irc@h002078c680df.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: dax (~you@212.239.207.201) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: lar1 (~lar1@adsl-63-204-134-27.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: spyck (1000@i80.ryd.student.liu.se) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: wli (wli@66.224.33.161) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 05:48:46 --- join: ric (Rico@node-c-1c6a.a2000.nl) joined #osdev 05:48:49 yeah 05:48:50 xD 05:59:27 moo kiddies 05:59:27 ... 06:00:33 --- quit: darkito_ ("User abort with 5 Ctrl-C's") 06:02:12 Moo, dear. 06:02:32 no not the animals sounds 06:02:43 * quantis starts rocking back and forth in his demented little corner 06:03:52 n3tspl1t! 06:04:51 --- quit: minddog[zz] (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:51 --- quit: westlord (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:51 --- quit: file (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:54 --- quit: air (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:54 --- quit: nbsp (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:56 --- quit: Robert (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:57 --- quit: Divine (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:57 --- quit: spyck (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:57 --- quit: Javanx (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: ric (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: wli (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: Zenton (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: Ogun (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: lar1 (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: dax (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: zZzToxic (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:58 --- quit: mrd (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:08:35 --- join: ric (Rico@node-c-1c6a.a2000.nl) joined #osdev 06:09:38 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 06:14:17 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 06:14:45 --- quit: quantis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:15:26 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.12) joined #osdev 06:15:43 --- quit: oink_ ("Reconnecting") 06:17:30 --- join: oink (~ziga@void.phear.org) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: dax (~you@u212-239-207-201.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: minddog[zz] (~minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: westlord (~westlord@12-217-76-213.client.mchsi.com) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: file (proxy@mctn1-1442.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h236n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: air (~brand@12-254-199-50.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 06:17:30 --- join: nbsp (nbsp@65.19.141.250) joined #osdev 06:18:40 anyone wants a wallpaper? 06:18:45 :) 06:19:04 kinda made one for my gf... :/ 06:19:29 bas!c photo + gimp 06:19:54 --- quit: eks[Zzzz] ("going to work") 06:19:58 --- join: mrd (~skdjfjksj@pcp201472pcs.uprtnw01.nj.comcast.net) joined #osdev 06:20:08 anyone wants to see it? 06:20:16 show 06:20:30 --- quit: westlord (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:30 --- quit: Divine (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:30 --- quit: air (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:32 --- quit: nbsp (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:32 --- quit: Robert (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:32 --- quit: file (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:32 --- quit: dax (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:32 --- quit: minddog[zz] (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:33 --- quit: oink (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:21:09 --- join: oink (~ziga@void.phear.org) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: dax (~you@u212-239-207-201.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: minddog[zz] (~minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: westlord (~westlord@12-217-76-213.client.mchsi.com) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: file (proxy@mctn1-1442.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h236n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: air (~brand@12-254-199-50.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 06:21:09 --- join: nbsp (nbsp@65.19.141.250) joined #osdev 06:21:28 woh hehe 06:21:28 nice 06:21:28 indeed 06:21:28 http://212.239.207.201/Sunshine.jpg (for the people who splitted out) 06:21:32 thx 06:21:36 took 5 mins 06:21:39 heh 06:22:19 btw 06:22:27 http://void.phear.org/ 06:22:34 can you tell me if you see anything wrong w/ the images ? 06:22:44 oink.rough.sex 06:23:02 hmm the assembler one :) 06:23:13 i like the layout 06:23:52 some nice pictures 06:24:19 (: 06:24:24 the 3rd reminds me of secret of mana... dunno why 06:28:53 that game rules 06:28:55 :P 06:34:18 --- join: HeavyJoost (~HeavyJoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 06:36:54 yes it rules 06:37:01 i need to make a decent site too 06:40:33 lemme experiment a bit 06:41:11 Joost! 06:43:11 Robert! :P 06:44:14 En hoe gaat het met joi, mijn kleene Joost? D: 06:44:25 btw, what's "little" in Dutch? :D 06:54:04 weinig of klein 06:54:12 depending what you mean 06:56:05 Robert: je bent klein 06:56:26 Ja, ric. Ik ben veel klein. 06:56:33 veel klein? 06:56:35 Hm 06:56:37 "very"? :D 06:56:53 "klein" is small/little 06:57:11 "You're very small!" 06:57:12 very is "erg" 06:57:16 Oh. 06:57:28 Je bent erg klein, ric? 06:57:35 nee, ik niet, jij wel 06:57:56 and when you ask a question in dutch, always start with the verb. 06:58:03 "Ben je erg klein?" 06:58:08 Like in Swedish :;P 06:58:23 * Robert eats all .nl people. 06:58:31 ahhh 06:58:38 Je lul is ook erg klein!" 06:59:21 Nee. 06:59:30 Dat kant je niet weten! 07:08:11 actualy you can do a question without the verb in first position 07:08:20 "Je bent erg klein, is het niet?" 07:08:23 etc etc etc 07:11:05 DAX IS NIET KLEIN, HE IS A BIG BOY 07:11:49 hij is een grote jongen? :P 07:12:12 *dat kan je niet weten :P 07:13:14 En hoe gaat het met joi, mijn kleene Joost? 07:13:21 * HeavyJoost aka Great Joost :P 07:13:39 * HeavyJoost aka Big Joost :D 07:13:45 heh 07:13:45 BIG BOY 07:13:49 i'm like 1m80 07:13:58 so pretty small 07:14:04 heh, ya 07:14:11 I'm almost 180 :P 07:14:25 small too :D 07:14:37 Frech ppl are... WHAHAHAHA! 07:14:40 _small_ 07:14:48 well actualy that isn't small, but if i compare to my friends... 07:14:50 TINYTINY 07:15:12 1.80 is smal 07:15:14 +l 07:15:19 well 07:15:32 in this part of europe it is :/ 07:15:44 (almost) every guy of my age is bigger than me :P 07:15:50 how old are you? 07:15:51 hehe 07:15:55 ehm 07:15:58 i forgot ;P 07:16:01 16 :) 07:16:01 lol 07:16:03 hm 07:16:11 you are ? 07:16:13 15 07:16:17 ah 07:16:32 1m80 would be just above average i think... 07:16:43 * HeavyJoost was about 1.20m ~4/5 years ago :D 07:16:58 but alot of my friends are in the 1m90/2m range :( 07:17:03 ~1.20-1.30 07:17:09 2M!!!!!@#$!@#!#@%@!%!#%!@#!!!!!!!!! 07:17:10 heh, ya 07:17:14 lol 07:17:19 "Je bent erg klein, is het niet?" 07:17:20 that's fucking tall 07:17:25 like one 2m, 64kg :/ 07:17:30 3~!!!!!!!!! 07:17:33 CUT IT3~! 07:17:35 oink: where are you from? 07:17:36 the part "is het niet?" is the question, beginning with a verb. 07:17:41 HeavyJoost: France 07:17:45 heh 07:17:45 ric: true true 07:17:47 and i'm 1m86 07:17:53 anyhow my dutch sucks 07:17:56 most French ppl are VERY small :D 07:18:02 dax: lol 07:18:15 move a bit more to the south... or to the east, more small people there 07:18:28 dax: my dutch will suck more 07:18:42 my girlfriend sucks great! 07:18:47 lol 07:18:51 ric: isn't it boyfriend? 07:18:58 no 07:19:11 yesterday, i was talking english to my friend by accident :D 07:19:13 woops :P 07:19:23 well yea that happens alot to me 07:19:42 or that i try to read dutch words as english 07:19:44 "behalve" 07:19:47 hmm 07:19:48 happends since im always in this chat :P 07:20:01 and then i just don't have a clue what they are talking about 07:20:17 english at school sux because i dunno the dutch words :D 07:20:24 lol 07:20:36 true 07:20:57 but my girlfriend sucks best of everything in the world! 07:21:05 i talk ~always english 07:21:09 i talk ~always DUTCH 07:21:13 :D 07:21:17 oops 07:21:35 http://212.239.207.201/Sunshine.jpg <-- comment my gimp work 07:21:42 or a bit of my dialect :P 07:21:53 i dunno any dialect :/ 07:22:31 AAAAAAAAH! REAL HALOWEEN PICTURE!!! 07:22:33 j/k :P 07:22:55 and yes that's me in the pic 07:23:23 the left guy looks like an idiot 07:23:44 lol 07:23:48 thx 07:23:51 yw 07:23:59 i am btw 07:24:06 oh. 07:24:09 ... 07:24:17 am what? 07:24:20 you look nice 07:24:22 i'm one of those social handicaped geeks 07:24:33 NOT! :P 07:24:48 * HeavyJoost loox weird and is 07:24:48 ;P 07:24:58 ever seen my pics ? :D 07:25:05 I'm a handsome cool dude! 07:27:10 * HeavyJoost is away, gotta go to the doctor for my back 07:27:18 heh 07:27:26 * HeavyJoost calls it the 'ruggendokter' :P 07:27:37 why does an image of Igor jumps into my head? :D 07:27:40 or 'ruggenkraker' :P 07:27:54 oh no not one of those 07:28:09 bbl... 07:33:57 --- join: Liesbeth (Simon@137.45-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 07:34:41 Hi, Simon. 07:35:09 En hoe gaat het met je? 07:35:56 ik moet je teleurstellen, 't is z'n irritante zus 07:36:04 sorrie Robert 07:36:53 hmm 07:36:56 send again 07:37:27 done 07:39:35 --- join: fluffy (~fluf@cp2947-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl) joined #osdev 07:46:06 --- join: lodda (Lothar@p508FEEAD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 07:46:14 hey 07:46:24 what do you think bout oberon? 07:57:03 --- quit: Liesbeth () 08:00:36 --- join: gianluca (~kernel@ppp-85-135.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 08:01:36 maybe daxos will get a site in the near future 08:02:36 brb 08:18:51 dedicated to me?! thank you! 08:18:56 my last name is Os 08:19:21 * dax sees the level of humor dropping very rapidly 08:20:11 but my dick is growing instantly 08:20:55 lodda! 08:23:52 --- quit: Javanx ("I don't feel a thing, and i stopped remembering. The days are just like moments tourned to hours") 08:23:55 --- join: kemu (~kemu@236.120-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 08:31:31 --- join: spyck (1000@i80.ryd.student.liu.se) joined #osdev 08:32:12 Hej :) 08:32:52 robbe! 08:34:21 oinky! 08:34:32 Ich bin kein Robbe :-/ 08:34:57 robby 08:35:02 wiliams! 08:35:03 hmm 08:35:20 Ich bin Laden. 08:35:21 hmm 08:35:22 HAHA. 08:35:50 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:38:49 hey all long time no see 08:39:14 bye people 08:39:18 Hi kemu :) 08:39:18 hi kemu 08:39:23 --- quit: gianluca ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 08:39:23 Bye gianluca (: 08:40:33 hmm 08:41:01 Got to cook some food, brb. 08:41:08 cook? 08:41:11 hmm 08:41:18 burn yourself. :) 08:41:25 can't imagine you can cook :)) 08:41:32 neither can i 08:41:43 prolly "making a sandwich" is "cooking" 08:41:46 Heh, nah. 08:41:49 dax: i thought you want stop developing daxOS 08:42:01 i cooked ten minutes ago 08:42:09 hrm 08:42:11 (but really) Spaghetti 08:42:25 nooo just putting it aside for a while 08:42:38 change food by feed, flip some with to and replace the third letter of cook by 'c' 08:43:12 lapsus? 08:43:14 blah 08:43:23 not really 08:46:08 omg my design sucks 08:46:19 --- join: stormbind (~stormbind@p50835302.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 08:46:35 arghs 08:46:51 i don't find good german oberon tuts :/ 08:47:53 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-006tnnashP0189.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 08:51:28 i got a book bout oberon 08:52:06 why ?> 08:52:07 heh 08:52:27 hello I440r 08:52:57 hi 09:07:33 --- quit: stormbind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:20:49 --- join: lynx (~root@p508089C5.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:20:58 hi lynx 09:21:07 word 09:21:13 konnichi wa 09:21:20 --- join: quantis (quantis@130.88.157.186) joined #osdev 09:21:38 ello 09:21:50 hello 09:21:55 konban wa, quantis-san 09:22:13 hey you learning japanese as well :) 09:22:19 class 09:22:29 quantis : you are, too ??? 09:22:32 i keep trying but i never have any one to practise with :) 09:22:39 wtf? 09:22:42 hrm 09:22:43 have been occasionaly for the last couple of years 09:22:45 wicked :) 09:22:45 hmm 09:23:06 quantis : i just got this book ysterday, i am trying to learn it :) 09:23:09 buy a book on how to speak it or read it about once every 9 months get to about chapter 3 and give up :( 09:23:11 cool 09:23:19 domo arigato 09:23:24 http://daxy.dyndns.org/new/ 09:23:28 does that work for you guys? 09:23:38 cant do the lines above letters 09:23:45 31 October 2002 09:23:47 Hmm... trying to design a website... just hope it works out this time. Still have to make a small logo for on the top (with alot of colors...) and I need to write a small backend (PHP? perl?) for the site. 09:23:49 lynx: ich will auch japanisch lernen :(( 09:24:08 any comments on the thinggy on the top? 09:24:21 lodda : get "langenscheits praktisches lehrbuch \n Japanish" 09:24:25 lodda : 25e 09:24:28 oy no german 09:24:34 --- join: eirikn (eirik@odin.eirikn.net) joined #osdev 09:24:44 german rox00rs 09:24:46 my ex girlfriend emigrated tehrwe :( 09:24:50 dax: looks cool 09:24:52 quantis : ohh 09:24:54 ahah 09:24:55 lodda: thx. 09:24:56 dax:) 09:25:02 oink: couldn't help it :) 09:25:04 quantis : where did she go to? 09:25:06 works at bloody SAP as a linuguist 09:25:11 heh 09:25:12 heidleberg 09:25:17 heidel 09:25:19 i wanna daxOS :) 09:25:19 ye 09:25:28 seems to spend most of her time visiting spain mind 09:25:28 you could at least, tell me you were gonna use my stuff :) 09:25:29 oink: i'll edit it some more... 09:25:35 --- join: do (~green@194.85.84.244) joined #osdev 09:25:39 hey i wroteall the html myself 09:25:47 class 09:25:55 gonna edit it a bit more... 09:25:59 quantis : hrm 09:26:06 lynx: what's the price? 09:26:13 i jsut bough a book on vhdl design, i want to be a hardware techie 09:26:15 quantis : watakushi wa niklas desu? 09:26:20 lodda : as i said, 25e 09:26:32 lodda : there are cds, too to learn the pronounciation 09:26:33 ziga@vaio:/tmp$ md5sum dotted.png dotted-dax.png 09:26:33 373129b643bb85b2ff3343a7ac96a523 dotted.png 09:26:33 373129b643bb85b2ff3343a7ac96a523 dotted-dax.png 09:26:34 :)) 09:26:34 no i havent watakushi 09:26:38 --- quit: do (Client Quit) 09:26:43 quantis : eh 09:26:46 whatever watakushi is 09:26:54 quantis : watakushi = i 09:27:01 --- join: do (~green@194.85.84.244) joined #osdev 09:27:10 hmm gonna go get one of my books 09:27:16 watskushi desu ~ i am 09:27:33 really 09:27:33 quantis : anata wa donata desu ? 09:27:45 i though questions ended with desu 09:27:58 err 09:28:01 quantis : anata wa donata desu ka? 09:28:07 no 09:28:14 questions end with "ka" 09:28:20 doh 09:28:24 hmm better 09:28:44 been trying my hand at chinese a ickle bit a well (latest girlfriends chinese) :) 09:28:45 but you can also leave it out 09:28:53 Mmm 09:28:59 * lynx wants a japanese gf :P 09:29:01 oink: bah... who cares bout dots? heh 09:29:05 stereotypes! 09:29:15 dax: j/k, i don't 09:29:21 * quantis wants to be live in japan 09:29:23 quantis : anata no onamae wa? 09:29:34 quantis : ye, but i assume live there is stressy 09:29:40 dax your site works and looks fantastic 09:29:46 quantis : i want to see japan, iceland.. all extremes :) 09:29:49 i also want to learn french 09:30:08 lynx: no more tehn any city and its safer then most, just more cramped in just about every aspect unless you got lots of money to buy a house on a hill 09:30:29 lynx: i want to be GoldenBoy :))))))) 09:30:37 --- join: cookin (~jrydberg@d212-151-86-148.swipnet.se) joined #osdev 09:30:49 (instead of having a japanese gf) 09:31:01 lodda : tu ne l`apprend pas a l`ecole? 09:31:22 oink: my dotted is now much much smaller. 09:31:24 äh... 09:31:26 dax: you only got the one page up yet? 09:31:34 lodda : lernst du es denn nicht in der schule? 09:31:36 ahah 09:31:37 only one page 09:31:43 lodda how did you get teh a with dots on it? 09:31:46 dax: mine was 386 bytes or something 09:31:48 oink : is it very wrong? 09:31:56 lynx: what ? 09:31:57 -rw-r--r-- 1 dax users 154 Oct 31 18:31 dotted.png 09:31:58 oink : the sentence i said to lodda 09:32:03 oink : french one 09:32:40 was pretty correct afaik 09:32:41 hm 09:32:45 lynx: in school i'd have no chance to get something better than E/5 09:32:51 +s maybe 09:32:58 lynx: was right 09:33:17 lodda : i never got any better marks at french latin/maths :P 09:33:19 quantis: german umlaut 09:33:29 * lynx pretty much sucks at school 09:33:31 maths = easy :PP 09:33:34 oink : woah! 09:33:49 oink : cool, i never said a french sentence that was rite 09:34:24 well yea maths are nice... and pretty easy 09:34:31 bah. 09:34:31 and i got plenty of maths at school 09:34:35 lynx: the book, does it teach me to write japanese letters? 09:34:37 (8 hours/week) 09:34:44 lodda : yes 09:34:54 unfair 09:35:02 3h/week 09:35:07 heh 09:35:15 lodda : WTF? 09:35:18 * do is away: brb 09:35:25 i got 3h of physics/week... hmm 09:35:38 lynx: 9th grade.. 09:35:58 2h physic 09:36:02 hmm 09:36:06 3h german 09:36:08 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:36:10 3h english 09:36:13 3h latin 09:36:25 lodda : loser. 09:36:26 1h biology 09:36:33 lynx: not my fault 09:36:35 how does your grading system work 09:36:42 lodda : till 10th form i had 4 hours of maths every week 09:36:55 i'd like to have much more FYI 09:37:02 even now i have 3 hours maths and 3 hours biology :P 09:37:15 Grundkurs looooooooooooooooooser 09:37:16 lodda : k 09:37:22 lodda : bah 09:37:23 ;) 09:37:37 lodda : i have phsyics advance course.. and it is pretty much a pain in the ass if you suck at maths 09:37:45 its evilish difficult 09:38:24 quantis : speak japanese with me! 09:38:49 ok got 2 newsitems on the site now, looks pretty decent 09:39:56 dax : nice gimp "flames" fx :P 09:40:15 lynx: i just love that effect, can't help it 09:40:17 dax : i am working on a splash for lodsb.org, too 09:40:21 it's soo easy, quick, and looks nice 09:40:26 dax : well.. it is nice anyway :) 09:40:29 dax : true 09:40:32 =) 09:40:58 maybe i should completely switch to japanese smileys as well (^_^) 09:41:06 maybe... 09:41:16 japanese characters look sexy with AA 09:41:25 heh 09:41:29 ye 09:41:37 hoi, so desu. 09:42:20 damn 09:42:26 my stupid circuit doesnt work 09:44:34 what kind of circuit? 09:45:45 brb 09:46:00 encoder circuit 09:46:18 i want to transmit several bits via one infrared diode at the same time 09:46:41 from your pc? microcontroler? 09:47:08 via parallelport 09:47:13 it is for my graduation paper 09:47:15 --- join: tirloni (gpt@aline.bs2.com.br) joined #osdev 09:47:26 what's the paper about? 09:47:57 anybody know the virtual address range of linux ? 0x0000000 until 0xffffffff ? 09:48:46 hrm 09:49:17 "optical data transmission" with IR-stuff as maintopic 09:49:39 lynx you are scaring me 09:49:47 im doing the same kind of thing ish 09:49:48 --- join: Ogun (~ogun@h197n2fls31o865.telia.com) joined #osdev 09:50:24 my 3rd year project is to build a packet encoder decoder for the Army to interface a pc to there packet switch network 09:50:30 quantis : ye 09:50:39 quantis : hrm 09:50:42 using pics to control it 09:50:44 hmmm 09:50:50 quantis : you know.. you are even interested in all that clustering shit 09:50:55 and japanese... 09:51:05 do you try to draw manga, too? 09:51:09 your not half irish are you? 09:51:14 no 09:51:18 lynx: have done at school 09:51:24 heh 09:51:26 scotish>? 09:51:30 quantis : what about music? 09:51:35 quantis : no, why do you ask? 09:51:47 i am "made in GDR" 09:51:50 im half and half, jsut wonderign if your liek a long lost twin 09:51:59 lol 09:52:06 i think it would be the other way around ;) 09:52:13 you are MY lost twin. 09:52:13 :) 09:52:45 quantis : are you into djing or guitar playing? or electronic music production? 09:52:55 well id rather have been made in GDR when you have a made in UK logo, you tend to find looks nice but three months down the lin bits are going to fall off 09:53:02 lynx, got cubase on my laptop 09:53:08 an ibanez gio guitar 09:53:14 fancy. 09:53:16 an a yamaha f310 acostic 09:53:24 whats its like bottom of the range 09:53:38 :P 09:53:42 want to get the gio gax45 its got a drop d tuner on it adn set in next 09:53:48 sound well wicked 09:53:56 hrm 09:54:08 what sort of bands you into? 09:54:09 * dax wants a mill 09:54:17 stuff like portishead 09:54:20 bristol newbeat 09:54:28 as well as german nujazz and electronica 09:54:33 me like nine inch nails, smashing pumpkins and tool probably faves 09:54:38 i like portishead 09:54:39 some of vianna downbeat stuff, too 09:54:48 quantis : yeah :) 09:54:50 never heard of most of that stuff 09:55:01 i bought a dvd some weeks ago 09:55:12 of what ? 09:55:13 its pretty gorgeous, since it is taken from a live concert 09:55:16 portishead dvd 09:55:24 i also like massive attack, tricky... 09:55:33 hrm 09:55:38 ahh.. i know my next project 09:55:46 my favorite dvds are nine inch nails and all that could have been, and spinal tap 09:55:51 * lynx found two atmel microcontrollers and two sid chips >:) 09:55:55 ooh 09:56:01 gimme the atmelsssss 09:56:02 mmm 09:56:04 no 09:56:08 btw 09:56:14 the used to be some of my favorite groups when i was growing up 09:56:14 the SIDs are superb 09:56:20 dax : you know the sid? 09:56:20 mmmm atmel... 09:56:22 no... 09:56:26 c64 graphics 09:56:29 class chip 09:56:31 dax : c64 synth cpu 09:56:34 no.. 09:56:37 it is the synth thingy 09:56:41 hey i was close 09:56:43 ah 09:56:47 * lynx also got 17 potis and 30 switches... 09:56:49 hihi 09:56:53 and a/ds 09:57:05 would be fancy to make a midi capable synth out of it 09:57:12 quantis : indeed :) 09:57:18 There is one.. Sidstation.. 09:57:28 Ogun : sidstation is expensive 09:57:49 I know.. But it is classy HW.. Designed for studio use, hence the price. 09:57:51 sure there used to be loads of projects about that sort of stuff in electonics magazines years ago 09:57:52 Ogun : and sidstation is controlled like any other digital synth 09:57:55 yes 09:58:15 Ogun : but i prefer the analogue style more, where you can twist knobs , etc. 09:58:23 quantis : yep 09:58:24 hmm 09:58:25 But IIRC the new Catweasel also takes a SID, so you can probably make a piece of SW to drive it from MIDI 09:58:39 * dax wants some synth software for linux 09:58:51 there must be soom 09:58:51 Ogun : i never heard anythign abotu catweasel :/ 09:59:11 Ogun : but if i am going to do it and succeed i will opensource it for sure 09:59:32 hmm 09:59:36 any link for the SID? 09:59:41 Ogun : i had contact to a dude which i made music with 10:00:45 whats catweasel 10:00:57 Ogun : and most of the parts we did were live, and for live perfomance synth which are controlled like the average digital one suck. you have many menues and a shitload of options , also it is not intuitive. 10:01:20 i want a synth to toy with 10:01:24 daX : there is a paper about it. pdf or something ... dam, i just forgot where to get it 10:01:32 dax : i have one :PP 10:01:40 i also want a mill 10:01:47 or edm machine would be fine too 10:01:52 dax : well.. if you want a nice thing to toy with... get one from claviatron 10:02:13 --- join: wli (wli@holomorphy.com) joined #osdev 10:02:27 hmm 10:02:28 --- quit: indigo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:02:38 dax : it is called "micromodular", you get software for it to build weird machines which are then saved to the micrommod to use it as a usual mididevice 10:02:49 and it just sounds gorgeous 10:03:02 it has the same synth cjip as the other claviatronic products 10:03:10 very warm and analogue sounding 10:03:10 ello wli 10:03:15 it owns, basically 10:03:34 * dax can't find claviatron on google 10:03:39 dax : if you downloaded the live music i made with a friend, you will hear it, cuz that is the only synth we used :) 10:03:42 er 10:03:44 claviatronic 10:03:45 hrm 10:03:51 * lynx always forgets names 10:04:06 no claviatronic either 10:04:17 mom 10:04:18 moment 10:04:20 isn't it clavia navo or something 10:04:23 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 10:04:33 or just clavia 10:04:39 hrm 10:04:41 just clavia 10:04:41 maybe 10:04:48 ah, sorry 10:04:56 nord modular? 10:05:01 yes 10:05:05 a small red box 10:05:05 they look cute 10:05:08 around 400e 10:05:10 yes 10:05:24 ugh 10:05:26 expensive :( 10:05:29 my friend has the micromod and some other one 10:05:55 isn't it possible to make something like that ? 10:05:56 hmm 10:05:59 dax : i also have a small one :) 10:06:15 dax : roland one, but it sounds like a freakin c64 sometimes 10:06:17 sucks badly 10:06:19 :P 10:06:38 dax : we used the micromod and the nord lead 10:06:45 dax : you want to download the songs? 10:06:53 sure 10:07:04 i suck with music though 10:07:21 i want to remind you that everything is doe LIVe 10:07:27 with no concept at all :P 10:07:30 just a jamsession 10:07:38 under windows i played around alot with fruityloops... but now that i dumped windows i haven't really found anything like it yet :( 10:07:41 no programming before playing except the beats 10:07:43 * oink listens to 48h labush 06.10.02 4h30 - 5h00 10:07:45 hrm 10:07:56 all the beats are made by the nordlead, too 10:08:11 48h labush hardtech sesssion 10:08:12 oooh DIY synth sites 10:08:13 we alos used a pc for effects and an amiga for effects, several other fx stuff 10:08:27 and an atari for tabulature 10:08:33 dax : wherE? 10:08:54 dax : you can build an analogue synth with resistors and freaky capacitors only 10:09:09 and inductivities (?) 10:09:15 hmm 10:09:17 inductors 10:09:23 ah, inductors, yes 10:09:32 it sounds fancy, too 10:09:51 where can i donwload the songs? 10:10:03 especially if you use coils and then use some magnets to change the sounds 10:10:07 dax : moment 10:10:22 http://www.synth.clara.net/beginners.html 10:11:26 dax : hrm.. ah.. the second one from teh second cd is the best, i am using my turntables and improvising on guitar and applying some fx 10:11:34 hmm 10:12:20 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.12) joined #osdev 10:16:54 http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asmdream.gif 10:17:54 ok 10:17:56 hmm 10:17:59 im of to bed for a couple of hours 10:18:08 havent been to bed since 7am yesterday moing 10:19:17 --- nick: quantis -> q_sleep 10:20:20 nite 10:23:07 * lynx goes to play some turntabling 10:26:47 --- join: indigo (indigo@bgp01105107bgs.wbrmfd01.mi.comcast.net) joined #osdev 10:27:41 indig0! 10:27:52 You're not daboy anymore :'( 10:32:18 --- join: jrydberg_ (~jrydberg@d212-151-87-116.swipnet.se) joined #osdev 10:32:54 --- nick: jrydberg_ -> cookin- 10:35:28 --- nick: geist-sleep -> geist 10:35:34 Morning geist 10:38:51 g'morning 10:39:04 ;) 10:40:27 --- join: huntrckr (~huntrckr@myr53-01-p95.gt.saix.net) joined #osdev 10:41:19 Hi, huntrckr. 10:41:40 --- quit: cookin (Connection timed out) 10:42:16 hello huntr 10:43:27 hello 10:44:01 yawn 10:44:12 bbl... wanna try something 10:44:23 --- quit: huntrckr (Client Quit) 10:49:04 --- quit: Ogun ("Client Exiting") 10:59:01 --- join: huntrckr (~huntrckr@myr53-01-p95.gt.saix.net) joined #osdev 11:01:57 --- quit: fluffy () 11:16:06 --- quit: cookin- ("Client Exiting") 11:16:16 --- quit: indigo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:18:12 --- quit: gab (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:19:06 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:26:54 --- quit: huntrckr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:29:49 --- quit: Javanx (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:29:49 --- quit: tirloni (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:29:49 --- quit: q_sleep (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:29:53 --- quit: HeavyJoost (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: eirikn (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: gab (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: lynx (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: I440r (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: spyck (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:31:34 --- quit: wli (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: westlord (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: Divine (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: air (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: nbsp (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: Robert (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: file (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: dax (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: minddog[zz] (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:32:44 --- quit: oink (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:15:52 --- log: started osdev/02.10.31 15:15:52 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #osdev 15:15:52 --- topic: 'Operating System DEVelopment www.osdev.org || links: qzx.com/lib , onee-san.net , www.osdev.com.ar || stats/people: bespin.org/~qz/irc || http://www.osjournal.hopto.org || I'm not designed to be part of a partnership' 15:15:52 --- topic: set by air on [Thu Sep 26 15:54:23 2002] 15:15:52 --- names: list (clog pengo Aardappel file jsr darkito Kurt dax wossname Rico geist redblue HeavyJoost Zenton trans mrd acme sludge asmo|reser do[done] witten_ nbsp air Robert westlord minddog[class] Divine oink spyck I440r lynx eirikn wli gab tirloni q_sleep) 15:20:15 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:25:47 --- quit: jsr ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over IRC.") 15:31:09 --- join: DRF (~daniel@host213-121-66-229.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 15:38:11 --- join: file[laptop] (lan@mctn1-1459.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 15:38:12 muahahaha 15:38:19 my boss bid on that motherboard/CPU/RAM for me 15:39:15 ? 15:39:16 Your boss? Weren't you like 15? :) 15:39:19 what? 15:39:25 And...er...what? 15:39:28 what? 15:39:29 what? 15:39:29 * file[laptop] is 16 15:39:36 --- join: indigo (indigo@bgp01105107bgs.wbrmfd01.mi.comcast.net) joined #osdev 15:39:37 WOW YOU'RE OLD 15:39:37 I code to make money 15:40:07 he's bought me a PDA... MP3 player... reference manual... and now new motherboard/CPU/RAM 15:40:18 lol 15:40:30 he's cool 15:40:35 Eh? 15:40:36 Why? 15:40:37 yeah... a true geek 15:40:41 Heh. 15:40:42 Robert: because I asked 15:40:47 Heh. 15:40:48 ahah 15:40:58 he's putting a cappuchino PC in his Rav4... with GPS/802.11b 15:41:01 What the fuck... why do everyone but I make money on coding? :P 15:41:03 and a thumbprint ignition 15:41:19 :)) 15:41:26 eh 15:41:39 darn good 15:42:09 --- quit: HeavyJoost (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:43:23 so have we decided on what that slot was yet? 15:43:41 --- join: HeavyJoost (~HeavyJoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 16:01:29 --- quit: pengo (Remote closed the connection) 16:01:30 --- quit: file[laptop] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:01:47 --- join: pengo (~pengo@p361-tnt1.mel.ihug.com.au) joined #osdev 16:21:58 * geist heads out 16:24:11 --- quit: Aardappel ("http://wouter.fov120.com/") 16:28:15 --- join: eks (~eks@h24-82-197-140.wp.shawcable.net) joined #osdev 16:34:03 hi eks 16:34:06 eks: guess what! 16:34:19 you got your bday gift?!? :P 16:34:24 that was a few days ago 16:34:27 ahh. 16:34:32 the adsl working properly? 16:34:34 but anywho - I'm getting a new motherboard/CPU! 16:34:40 ahh! cool 16:34:42 it's... working which is good enough 16:34:46 lol 16:34:50 it's an Intel Thor Motherboard with a P166MHz CPU 16:35:07 gonna cram 96mb of RAM into it, it's got 4 PCI slots and 3 ISA slots... 16:35:16 which means... USB!!!! 16:35:45 are you happy for me? 16:35:50 * eks dances for file 16:35:54 :P 16:35:57 * oink gets naked for file 16:36:00 oh 16:36:03 and dances 16:36:06 oink: noooooooooo! 16:36:20 okay, okay, i'll put my clothes back 16:36:35 eks: I'm gonna use my old hardrives, case, power supply... RAM... and ISA cards 16:37:14 file: nice, so it won't cost too much :) 16:37:22 eks: my boss is paying for it 16:37:29 lol, easy deal then 16:37:31 * file will just pay for the USB card 16:37:44 I expect a nice speed change :) 16:37:55 probably gonna keep Win2k Pro on it... 16:38:04 eks: do you think that I can use my old power supply? 16:38:23 file: should be able to, unless you get also a brand new videocard 16:38:37 nah - getting an S3 Trio 64 from a friend 16:38:43 should be alrigt 16:38:53 but... it's only like 140... 16:39:09 not much power... 16:39:21 well, how many devices you haev? 16:39:28 1hdd, 1cdrom, 1 floppy? 16:39:41 I've got two hardrives, CD-Rom drive, 1 floppy, then 2 ISA cards, and 2 PCI cards 16:40:21 hrm.. will be border line but should be ok 16:40:28 k 16:40:34 one drive usually sits dormant anyway 16:41:19 how much for a new power supply? 16:41:27 not much, maybe 30$ 16:41:36 mmm perhaps 16:41:39 how about a PCI USB card? 16:41:44 dunno 16:42:02 I already measured and the new motherboard is the same size as my current one :) 16:42:18 it's just this is designed for a riser card, not for the expansion slots to be on the motherboard 16:43:55 eks: so my plan should be ok? 16:44:13 I don't see why it wouldn't work 16:44:18 http://www.sytebuilder.com/members/12123/106.JPG 16:44:19 that's it 16:44:20 as long as you get a PSU that is ok for your mobo :p 16:44:43 I think this one should be fine with it 16:45:16 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by rear") 16:45:20 what do you think of that mobo? 16:46:00 well.. it pretty much look like all other mobos.. LOL 16:46:05 good 16:46:13 now tell me what that slot is on the left side of the PCI slots 16:46:32 looks like an agp slot 16:47:20 I thought they were smaller 16:49:07 * eks looks inside his case.. LOL 16:49:33 nope 16:49:36 it's an AGP slot 16:49:37 eheh 16:49:46 I've got an AGP slot? SWEET 16:50:06 eheh 16:50:32 why I'm happy I don't know 16:50:49 now you just need an agp videocard ;) 16:51:03 nah 16:51:04 PCI will do 16:51:46 I gotta get the mobo first anyway :_ 16:51:47 :) 16:52:16 oh wait 16:52:17 that's not AGP 16:52:20 that's a CELP socket 16:52:52 celp? 16:52:55 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 16:52:59 Computationally Extended Logic Programming ? 16:53:05 haven't a clue 16:53:17 neat'o I've got two serial ports... 16:53:28 4 PCI... 3 ISA... I love it 16:55:13 eks: http://www.sytebuilder.com/members/12123/87.JPG 16:56:51 eks : koban wa, dave-san 16:57:51 some ppl are so stupid 16:59:29 i had the porch light off and would flip it on for a second when kids would walk by and they came to the porch even tho the light was off 17:00:03 then i had my dog bark at them thru the door 17:00:29 mean 17:00:37 no it wasnt 17:00:39 lynx: :) 17:00:41 * gab would have released the dog ;P 17:00:44 --- nick: eks -> eks[away] 17:00:49 they are not suppose to go to doors unless porch light is on 17:01:20 gab: there was a dog pissing on my lawn tonight and i let my dog out to get it 17:01:32 aha 17:01:35 big dog ? 17:01:50 both are average sized 17:01:57 mine is an akita 17:06:21 fuck 17:06:44 have to go offline :( 17:06:53 k 17:06:58 i need the poweroutlet multiplyer :P 17:07:01 hrm 17:07:06 however you call the thing 17:07:08 --- quit: lynx ("[BX] Tony the Tiger uses BitchX. Its Grrrrrrrrreat!") 17:09:38 --- quit: wossname ("...") 17:12:58 --- join: SHYT (y4ru12h8@ip64-75-151-124.dial.aloha.net) joined #osdev 17:13:03 --- part: SHYT left #osdev 17:29:52 --- nick: mrd -> mrd[lonely] 17:30:43 heh 17:30:55 poor mrd[lonely] :) 17:35:54 * Robert is always lonley. Good night. 17:37:12 --- nick: mrd[lonely] -> mrd 17:38:13 --- join: rd ([ZeyELG0eH@nycmny1-ar1-4-43-243-106.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) joined #osdev 17:38:45 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:39:00 does anyone know of a channel where I can go to get some info on SAN performance on Linux/Solaris 17:44:27 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@213.45.18.12) joined #osdev 17:47:55 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:49:47 --- quit: darkito ("Connection reset by pheer") 18:04:44 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@sdn-ap-008tnnashP0140.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 18:18:33 --- quit: I440r (Connection timed out) 18:28:52 --- nick: q_sleep -> quantis 18:28:56 * quantis LIVES 18:37:56 anyone up? 18:38:01 hello 18:39:05 hows things? 18:41:05 I'm fine. Tired though (Nearly 3am here) 18:42:39 i just woke up, its nearly 3am here as well 18:43:03 stayed up on here all last night :) then went to work, then a jobs fair came home logging in a nd passed out :) 18:43:42 --- quit: Javanx ("I don't feel a thing, and i stopped remembering. The days are just like moments tourned to hours") 18:45:15 hrm 18:46:31 i used to do that all time 18:46:58 espcially wehn i firt got thetnet at uni couple of years back :) 18:49:32 --- nick: minddog[class] -> minddog 18:55:44 Sorry quantis that I'm not talking much. My reactions have kinda died it's so late here. 19:00:11 im feeling pretty refreshed 19:02:26 Unlike me 19:04:21 done any coding today? 19:04:48 good night 19:05:19 --- quit: gab (Remote closed the connection) 19:05:19 night oink 19:06:04 --- quit: rd ("Client Exiting") 19:12:23 --- join: lynx (~root@pD9E634C9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 19:12:24 huhu 19:12:28 wb 19:12:31 hey 19:12:39 im alive :) 19:12:41 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 19:12:46 quantis : did you ever work with ne555 ? 19:12:59 little timer hips 19:13:08 aye, many moons ago 19:13:17 ok 19:13:25 do you know if the output is negative? 19:13:35 cuz i have that 19:13:35 --- join: trans (~trans@fatwire-201-129.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 19:13:51 and i connected a speaker to my 10khz output and i dont hear shit :,,( 19:14:35 --- quit: DRF (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:14:36 maybe you dont have enough current to drive the speaker 19:14:42 --- join: malenfant (~malenfant@ati2362cy13e4.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #osdev 19:14:43 i do 19:14:47 5V 19:14:51 current though 19:14:54 what's pushing it? 19:14:56 oh 19:15:02 pushing? 19:15:06 hi 19:15:12 where is the power coming from? 19:15:16 i am using an external psu and a voltage... err.. changer? 19:16:10 when i connect the wires i hear a buzzing sounds 19:16:14 so it should work 19:16:21 hmmm 19:16:36 cant rember it having a positive output 19:17:05 :( 19:17:13 i dont know why it isnt working at all 19:17:15 anyone know of good muds? 19:17:23 you just using a basic 555 19:17:30 yes 19:17:31 ooooh 19:17:44 you definitly got the output on pin 3 19:17:51 St ne555N 19:17:55 yes 19:18:00 but lemme recheck it 19:18:48 according to my info of it pin can drive TTL, which definitly isnt a negative output 19:19:01 have you tried another 555 19:19:05 no 19:19:08 hrm 19:19:12 weird 19:19:15 well 19:19:22 i am using 3 of that thingies 19:19:28 and all give me negative outputs 19:19:33 * lynx confused 19:19:44 you sure you got you multimetter set up right? 19:20:52 --- part: geist left #osdev 19:21:09 screw thAT 19:21:13 hrm 19:21:19 i must be terribly stupid 19:21:26 i measured the voltage 3 times 19:21:36 and i always got a neg value 19:21:40 and now positive 19:21:48 heh 19:21:55 * lynx jerky 19:22:03 well,ok 19:22:10 i get a tll outpu now 19:22:27 :) 19:23:31 i reckon electronics is some sort of magic, the amount of unexplicable events that used to happen on my electronics course id fill and encylcopedia 19:23:34 ok wait 19:23:49 i measure the usual ground +vcc 19:23:53 which is 5v 19:23:55 --- join: DRF (~daniel@host213-121-69-169.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 19:24:09 and when i measure voutput and +vcc i get +5v 19:24:19 so 19:24:30 isnt the output ground then? 19:24:48 heh, how true 19:26:32 no pin 1 is ground 19:26:43 and ground and voutput gives ~ 0V 19:26:49 i know 19:27:12 but that is what the multimeter says when checking the voltage 19:27:26 maybe it hasnt trifggered 19:27:34 what kind of circuit are you building 19:28:02 i want one which makes a stable square wave signal@ 10khz 19:28:33 10khz is a pretty high frequency 19:28:37 i used to know all this stuff 19:28:47 mrd : i am also using 100khz 19:28:51 300khz 19:28:53 not that high, jsut hard to get arrcuratly 19:29:11 i meant for human hearing range 19:29:19 ah 19:29:40 the average human should hear 13khz-18khz as well 19:30:00 hrm 19:30:00 human range is 20-20khz but 10khz doesn't sound in the middle, it sounds high.. at least to my ears 19:30:09 it is 19:30:45 but you should be able to realize the tone 19:30:51 quantis : any ideas? 19:31:45 thats cause its logarythmic 19:31:54 same as with sound levels 19:32:01 volume i should say 19:32:52 if you see me online next week lynx i might well know, i was going home this weekend to have a rummage through all my old a-level electronic notes 19:34:09 pff 19:34:12 angeber. 19:34:17 moo 19:34:24 quantis : ok ... you will help me, then , mkay? 19:35:08 ill try, got to start brushing up my electronics big time for my third year project 19:35:22 lynx how many amps @ 5V? are you sure you have enough? 19:36:25 o i guess u do 19:36:26 you can get a lot of power out a single amp, should be fine for audio 19:36:55 hrm 19:36:58 i think 19:37:00 hrm 19:37:09 * lynx is not sure if he found the error 19:39:48 why whats up? 19:39:54 ok 19:40:02 well 19:40:14 * indigo sighs 19:40:33 quantis : this should eb the circuit i need http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555fig9b.gif 19:40:39 now lemme start gimp 19:41:01 what's a good, recent book on osdev that i might find @ my local library? 19:41:46 what do you want if for, i.e with source code, or just for theory? 19:41:55 lol theory 19:42:03 source code is what i'm for 19:43:04 * indigo goes to bed :( 19:43:14 theory, how modern os's do things, etc 19:43:17 best one (thoug it is a bit out of date, and very unix biased) is os design and implmentation by tannebaum 19:43:47 get modern operating systems by tannebaum then, good book nearly bought it today, but went and got a book VHDL instead 19:44:35 indigo: why the long face? 19:46:19 quantis : gimme 5 mins 19:46:31 i've seen tannebaum recommended by quite a number of people 19:47:00 its a good book 19:49:13 * DRF repeats "I want that book!!!!" needs to find mony to buy it 19:50:10 OS concepts is good for theory. But not much in way of exaples. :( 19:50:59 quantis : can you dcc? 19:51:20 quantis : did you take a short look at the gif i gave you the link to? 19:51:21 there a couple of good books that ae qutie cheap for theory, but they give no hints usually to practical examples and problems you have, thell just theres such a technique and it works this way 19:51:32 lynx, yes and yes 19:52:10 hrm 19:52:18 seems it doesnt work from me 19:52:23 quantis : email? 19:52:51 ok 19:53:00 now 19:53:04 take a look at it 19:53:21 srrry i was just checking something 19:53:36 * lynx is too impationet :) 19:53:43 impatient 19:54:28 actually got an idea for another circuit for you prehaps, which might do what you want, its acutually in my components catalogue with a little graph saying the frequencies and stuff :) 19:55:04 with the ne555? 19:55:23 the problem is that i have actually the circuits already soldered 19:55:25 and hrm 19:55:32 do you get the problem there? 19:55:55 its quite close to my books ciruit 19:56:03 yes 19:56:13 but isnt my pin2 wired AFTER the r2 ? 19:56:21 and shouldnt it before? 19:56:55 that is the major difference (other then the missing capoacitor) 19:57:37 missing capacitor? 19:57:41 r2 should just be between pins 7 and 8 19:57:48 i used a parallel circuit 19:57:59 because o have only 3.3 uf and 1.5 uf 19:58:00 hrm 19:58:22 quantis : well 19:58:35 quantis : why between 7, 8? 19:58:39 there is already r1 19:58:59 yeah my circuits got a capcitor on pin 4 but thats not really problem, (its a free running frequency generator) 19:59:14 ah, ok 19:59:29 well 19:59:35 do you think that might be the prob? 19:59:44 i have no idea, its been so long since i played with 555 19:59:53 hrm 20:00:11 lynx try it, it should do any damage, cause its a valid way of setting them up, jsut cant rember what it does exectly 20:00:17 shall i rewire pin2 directly to pin6? 20:00:30 no thats not what i mean 20:00:59 hrm 20:01:23 basicly take you picture, rotate r2 90 degrees and place it there 20:01:47 --- quit: I440r_ ("Reality Strikes Again!") 20:02:01 hrm 20:02:45 i have to play with that thing 20:02:46 :/ 20:02:56 * lynx doesnt have any breeboards 20:03:02 +d 20:04:12 i go to bed now 20:04:20 cya later duds 20:04:24 sayonara 20:04:25 * mrd waves goodnight 20:04:30 *poof* 20:04:32 --- quit: lynx ("BitchX: the Cadillac of all clients") 20:05:16 still around, quantis? 20:11:31 aye 20:11:43 was just trying to draw a diagram for lynx 20:11:44 doh 20:12:11 he fell asleep 20:12:14 :) 20:12:24 so what kind of stuff do you want to do with your os 20:13:15 eventually, i want to be able to use it for my desktop, for programming, web surfing, etc. 20:13:53 probably best to go down the unix route then 20:14:20 im trying not to follow any predefined routes 20:14:22 get the tanabaum book, its based around showing how he implmented a unix clone called minuix 20:15:05 --- join: storm_ (storm@dialpool-210-214-131-195.maa.sify.net) joined #osdev 20:15:14 but if you support things like posix in your ox, it ill mean you have loads and loads of software easily avliable on it 20:15:29 or so that there not to hard to port 20:16:04 i dont know much about posix .. what types of rules does it define? 20:16:33 hey guys 20:16:52 hi storm 20:17:09 i would like to know something about protected mode... 20:17:14 i imagine just providing posix compatibility is quite an undertaking 20:17:14 mrd:its basicly just a set of calls defining interfaces to processs an interprocess comunication 20:17:20 the basics .. 20:17:34 mrd, its not to bad, and there most of the source code in the book for your to dissect 20:17:39 haevnt tried it myself thoguh 20:18:02 storm, some good tutorials. www.nondot.org/sabre/os 20:18:12 thanx 20:19:11 quantis: it only specifies ipc? or is that just one of the things it specifies 20:19:54 just one , theres a couple of hundred calls :) but you only need small numbers apparently to get thigns like gcc to work (though you have to have a fairly complete libc) 20:20:21 most ofthe time you can jsut layer posic ontop of however you implementing the system 20:21:31 i dont think im going to worry about posix now.. im not trying to develop an os that will be used by the masses 20:21:34 --- quit: indigo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:21:40 sounds like too much work :P 20:23:25 this site is good man, thanx again:D 20:23:31 i have my hands full enough just understanding what the components of the os need to do 20:24:35 once i know what everything needs to do, then i can start designing details & writing 20:24:42 that's the fun part :) 20:25:18 right now im still digging for details all the time.. it's getting boring.. :\ .. that's why i asked for a book actually, it'd be nice to have one source that points out all of this stuff 20:25:45 mrd: Whats this about an OS? Go real mode if you want fast and easy lol ;) 20:25:53 hehe 20:28:01 its funny.. i bet everyone in this room is writing their own OS, spending tons of time surfing, researching, reading, experimenting.. there must be an unfathomable amount of time that could have been saved had everyone in here been working together .. :x 20:28:19 if you got to the kidos website in the other documentation section look closly and youl see a book called murtl v1.0 20:28:33 it the electronic version of writing you own 32 operating sytem 20:28:42 got full source code in it an all sort 20:29:08 mrd: but then they would be writing there own operating system 20:32:20 what exactly is a heap? is it just a chunk of memory? is there any special way in which a heap is accessed? 20:32:21 one thing i wouldnt mind doing is actually writing a new language to make it easier to writ operating systems in, 20:32:46 a heap is the memory wher programs allocate memory fro local variables and stuff 20:33:18 aren't most local variables on the stack? 20:33:31 depends 20:33:39 on the .. compiler? 20:33:50 or language? 20:33:55 combination 20:34:03 some languages it doesnt matter 20:34:07 others i can do 20:35:05 ah. so, is the heap allocated only when a process is initially loaded, say from a size specified in the executable's header, or can the app request & free heap memory during runtime? 20:36:36 thats depends on the os implmentation 20:36:51 i.e how it sets up processs 20:36:51 ah. well, what does posix say the heap should do? :) 20:37:08 dunno 20:37:16 o 20:37:40 not sure if posix goes into that much detail, though there are some malloc commands, how there implmented is pretty much up to you 20:38:38 hmm 20:38:43 ? 20:39:03 this is why os design is so much fun, so many problems to solve 20:39:58 c programs have a malloc() function.. does each OS have to write its own version of malloc(), which calls the kernel/memory manager, and gets the mem? 20:40:17 --- quit: storm_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20:41:00 yep 20:41:34 malloc allocates memory off the heap 20:41:39 ok, when an app calls free(), do most OS's actually take back that physical memory, or do they let the app hold onto it, for when the app calls malloc() again? 20:42:38 depends on the process architectue. if the process space contains a preset heap size, the os leaves it there i guess, otherwise yes it would go back to a central meoory pool 20:43:05 thats one of the advantages of paged memory systems, process spaces can expand and de-expand a lot easier 20:43:16 thus allowing heaps to move around etc 20:43:33 and for more efficent os mangement of memory 20:44:09 if you want to read about memory allocators goto www.nondot.org/sabre/os 20:44:14 ok you confused me there - is the heap: a) allocated app memory b) all hypothetical memory space available to the app 20:44:22 gots lots of stuff about it there 20:44:30 depends on teh os 20:45:07 some os set all an applications memory when it loads teh process, i.e real-mode os, old unix and mainframe systems etc 20:45:43 with paged and to some extent segmented memory (which each process start at imaginagy 000000 in memory_ 20:46:14 its makes it possible for the os to dynmicly size the process memory allocation whiles its running 20:46:20 --- quit: DRF ("5am, here. Time to leave lol. Nite") 20:46:42 if it runs out of memory it will just the application another page of memory etc till it runs out 20:47:38 i was looking into memory management, and i was thinking about the paging process (my OS is IA-32 only) and i realized that while tracking used physical pages was easy - how would i track used virtual memory? it would use an aweful lot of physical memory to maintain a free virtual page stack for every process.. 20:48:39 Within an address space or throughout the kernel? 20:48:47 i thought, if i only just paged out vm to apps, & make my malloc/free implementation reuse memory, then that would seem simple 20:49:14 within an address space 20:49:21 if your using ia32 i take it your using segmentation ? 20:49:31 a combination of segmentation & paging 20:49:43 no one remotely sane uses segmentation except for execute permissions if they even bother with that much 20:50:07 linux is paged segmented isnt it? 20:50:19 though nt upward was as well? 20:50:28 no wait thats flat im talking bollocks 20:50:57 It's very rare that anything uses the segmentation as anything but placeholders to shut the MMU up wrt. paging. 20:51:07 if you had a segmented space, it id be a lot mroe secure 20:51:15 ahh okay 20:51:37 the execute permissions are functionality but it's often ignored because segments with boundaries other than 0-4G are slow. 20:51:47 minix doesnt have paging so they never talked abot implmenting it really, ecxcept on multics 20:52:01 wli: segments with boundaries other than 0-4G are slow?? 20:52:06 Multics does some very complex stuff. 20:52:06 i've never heard that before 20:52:19 mrd: they affect cycle timings for cache hot memory accesses. Try timing it yourself. 20:52:35 hmm, i heard it slodws the system down becuase it switch from 32bit to 32biot +16 bit addressing 20:53:01 there's a special "fast case" for 0-4G segments in hardware I think 20:53:07 wli had mos of the virtual memory design physical wired into the hardware 20:53:09 wait, what do you mean 32bit + 16bit addressing? 20:53:53 Doesn't exist, he's talking about segment selectors being 16-bit. 20:54:44 you have to use a 16bit segment address to acess different segmetents. Memory design gets complicated with segments, and im really not explaining it well 20:55:34 It's potentially useful for windowing into > 4GB in a single process. 20:57:16 wli, when you say a segment boundary other than 0-4G, are you referring to the limit? 20:57:17 hey... I noticed someone saying something up top about joining together in OS developement 20:57:22 and if you allowed multisegmetn programs you could have 6400tb of memory .... :))))))) 20:57:26 mrd: base of 0, limit of 4G 20:57:37 ah damnit 20:57:45 westloard, i got a better idea 20:58:05 hows about desging a new language to make it easier to design os's ? 20:58:05 i was planning on using other bases & limits to split CPL0 into kernel & driver space 20:58:18 quantis: and rule the world too, right? 20:58:20 :) 20:58:26 but i didn't think there was a performance penalty 20:58:28 quantis: how about helping me with crush :) 20:58:29 quantis: Done, raises toolchain maintenance issues. 20:58:44 westload: a man after my own heart :) 20:58:48 mrd: Using the legacy cpu features got slower as of PPro IIRC 20:58:55 hehe 20:59:05 wli: what are you referring to when you say legacy cpu features? 20:59:26 mrd: 16 & 8 bit registers, segments, etc. 20:59:56 wli: you're confusing me.. im talking about setting a limit in a segment descriptor 21:00:26 i've got soem basic ideas for it, do you want me to write a little ideas document, and ill pass it around after the weekend ewehn i get my belved net conenction back (going back home to seethe parents for the weekedn ) 21:00:46 mrd: That's a legacy feature. 21:01:02 wli: i thought you were referring to realmode features 21:01:04 wli: 16. 8 bit register manipulats dont slow it down as, segmetns yes 21:01:11 wli: so what features *aren't* legacy? 21:01:40 mrd: 32-bit registers, pagetables, 32-bit operations. 21:02:03 air: i though crush was an applications language for you os 21:02:19 wli: now you're very much confusing me :) segment descriptors, afaik, were introduced with 32bit operations 21:02:32 not x86 bashing here, but how many people here things that x86 needs to be tossed and redesigned (IE no legacy crap) 21:02:51 * quantis waves his hand vigoursly 21:03:10 i think they should have kept building better 68k series processors 21:03:19 they were 32 bti even when they wer 16 bit 21:03:23 wli: a segment selector is loaded with the index of a segment descriptor.. the segment register, which is loaded with a selector, is still 16bit, but is used in a different manner during 32bit addressing.. 21:03:28 and so didnt realyl have any of these problesm 21:03:50 mrd: yes, if the segment descripor refers to a segment with nonzero base and non-4G limit it's slower, because checks must be done. 21:04:03 to continue on my questionings, how many people thing segmentation comes from the devil? 21:04:08 s/refers to/describes/ 21:04:25 wli: do you know how much slower? 21:04:38 westloard, segmentation is great if done properly (dreams of one day writing a modern day multics....) 21:04:48 mrd: not much, but it should show up in cycle counts (e.g. rdtscll) 21:05:18 quantis: I thought multics sucked, didn't it? 21:05:22 wli: argh u have no idea how much what you're telling me is frustrating me 21:05:27 Well, paging can be done with segments only. It's how UNIX works on the 3B2. 21:05:37 mrd: Why? 21:06:12 wli: because i really thought there was no penalty for making use of the features of segmentation 21:06:20 westloard:what gave you that idea 21:06:37 westloard:its only problem was the hardware it ran on wa outof date 21:06:53 --- join: zephir (~zephir@hill-b-250.resnet.purdue.edu) joined #osdev 21:06:57 "VAX pagetables" are something like segments also. 21:06:59 quantis: I thought ritchie et al scrapped it and designed "UNIX" from scratch cuz multics was so buggy 21:07:20 wli: it seems absurd that there is a penalty - how hard is it to compare 2 values? requested address vs limit 21:07:33 mrd: A couple of cycles. 21:07:37 wli: pagetables are just a collection of pages a process can access, its how some os map in ipc 21:07:55 (think os2 did that, could be wrong) 21:08:20 quantis: well, different MMU's do things in different ways. 21:08:20 wli: so when does this penalty occur? 21:08:38 mrd: when base != 0 and limit != 4G 21:08:48 westload: no multics wasnt particulary bugggy jsut required a big massive computer, multics was multi user, they wanted a single user system to run on pdp7 upwards 21:08:53 wli: i mean, what operations cause it 21:08:58 mrd: memory accesses 21:09:10 so on every memory access, add a few cycles 21:09:11 ew 21:09:20 wli:true and vax is basicaly an operating system in big metal box 21:09:21 hmm 21:09:22 witten_: around? 21:09:36 havent seen him talk all night 21:09:43 thanks 21:10:15 quantis: e.g. Power4 has an uncached memory region used as an open-addressed hash table by the hypervisor (firmware/BIOS/whatever), and a software-controlled TLB. 21:10:26 I realize that some of you might consider this an "embedded system" 21:10:42 but what do you think of the prospect of creating an easy to configure "OS" 21:10:43 most risc have software controleld TLB, its more efficent 21:10:53 that just routes packets/acts as a firewall 21:10:56 quantis: yes, but Power4 has this hash table. 21:11:27 true, not many systems have proper hypervisors eith, prety much only mainframes 21:11:47 its like a very very very low level version of vmware 21:12:22 westlord: not a bad idea, but yove got like linux on a disc 21:12:24 No, mainframes are different, z/OS and zSeries stuff is very different. 21:12:44 still runs off the hypervisor principle 21:13:01 There is no hypervisor principle. 21:13:08 quantis: lots of research done has shown that even "optimized for routing" linux kernel kills latency and processor usage more than it needs to 21:13:14 It's the same as a BIOS as it's used in DOS. 21:13:19 quantis: plus it's hard for the average user to set up 21:13:23 no tis not 21:13:46 It just does different things. 21:13:47 if a CPU is 1330 mhz with a 133mhz fsb, do memory accesses take about 10 clocks? 21:13:54 westlord:makes sense 21:14:24 random accesses.. 21:14:26 I just figure that we've got enough linux/bsd clones out there 21:14:37 you know, time to target a specific audience and all 21:14:46 mrd: depends on bus width, usually a number of bits at a time are transferred. 21:14:48 the hypervisor if its the thing i think it is provides the emulation for the kind of protected mode 21:15:02 enabling the different os to think there running alone on teh machine 21:15:13 its a bit like v86 mode on steroid 21:15:15 s 21:15:20 erm 21:15:32 what's the difference between v86 and x86 again? 21:15:41 v86 is a 16-bit emulation mode. 21:15:48 that's right 21:16:04 virtual 8086 21:16:09 and protected mode call is traped (by what i though was called the hypervisor) and then it provides the logic for the privildeged mode for the processor 21:16:21 v86 i know, but you can have lots of them right 21:16:35 power4 and mainframes can do the same thing 21:16:53 just with an exact copy of the processor 21:17:10 thats why you get mainframes running 1000's of copies of linux on them 21:17:11 Various kinds of direct hardware accesses are allowed, only certain kinds of operations need to be manipulated through hypervisor calls. 21:17:50 exactly, but without the hypervisor, all the os would be writing over each other etc 21:18:23 does anyone here have a sample of their code I could look at? 21:18:28 hypervisor basicly handles memory partiton and works in cooperation with the host operating (the first one loaded 21:18:32 Not necessarily, more stuff can get shoved into hardware. 21:18:56 Question of mechanism vs. policy. 21:18:58 true, look at the honeywells that multic worked on 21:20:07 they were butchered to make it easier for the software to run on it, can really do that with hardware today, most enterprise servers are solderign iron free zones :( 21:20:37 * quantis thinks he devloping a multic fixation aRGGGGGGHHHHHHH 21:21:13 wli: how old are you? 21:21:33 26 or 27 21:21:36 westlord:got to bespin.org/~qz/irc loads of people on here seem to have put there code up, 21:21:56 is that depending on the timezone? is it your birthday? :D 21:22:10 Not sure what the current date is. 21:22:15 wli: nope 20 just have had a strong and persistent interest in ancient computing for years, reading up everything i could about multics and mainframes when i was still on my a500 21:22:34 my comp says november 1st 21:22:44 actualy my 21st only about a month or so away :) 21:22:48 Nov 1 2002 I'm still 26 then. 21:23:30 when's your birthday? 21:24:33 mines in december, whens your wli? you seem concerned about pinpointing the timer when you instanty become a whole year older :) 21:25:32 anyone ever though of setting up anhobby os web page? 21:25:39 wli: what did you mean earlier by 'cache hot memory accesses'? 21:25:41 nov 10th here 21:26:00 quantis: http://mrd.knows.it 21:26:17 westlord : ??? 21:26:34 mrd: ditto? 21:26:42 ahh your birthday? 21:26:43 mrd: the cycle difference wrt. segments is vastly dominated by cache misses. 21:26:59 yeah, birthday 21:27:30 cool 21:27:35 how old ? 21:27:37 ah, so on a cache miss, there's a penalty, but not when its in the cache? 21:28:07 :P 18 21:28:36 were abouts you from? 21:28:40 --- part: zephir left #osdev 21:29:04 mrd: right 21:29:04 stalker, eh? :) 21:30:21 Davenport, Iowa, USA 21:30:38 * mrd is 21 21:30:53 nah im in the uk 21:31:06 bit to far for me to go on a stalking spree im afrain 21:31:09 yeah... I'm probably not worth the trip :) 21:33:41 well if you got me on one of my goth days, you probably be scared shitless muwhahaAHAHHHAHAHA 21:34:06 I have those now & then. 21:34:11 so just dont make any trip to te uk, i haev ways and means MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 21:34:22 wli: good arnt they :) 21:34:33 I guess. 21:34:36 so, um, where in the uk are you, so I know where to avoid? 21:35:11 admittly i end up getting a rash from the crappy plating on my favorite set of beads :( 21:35:17 manchester 21:35:46 wli what kind of music you into? 21:36:05 Nothing really hardcore. 21:36:20 my favortie bands nine inch nails 21:36:36 Okay, nothing that bad. 21:36:48 quantis: i have every halo :P 21:37:08 as long as we're now away from OS development, what all schools do you all go to :) 21:38:22 assuming your still in school, that is 21:38:39 not me 21:38:43 * quantis sstays devising hideously painful tortores the like of which have never been seen before in this dimension 21:39:02 nah im at umist univeristy 21:39:08 Neurosis, Fear Factory, das ich, more das ich, Atrocity, Front Line Assembly, VNV Nation, Deine Lakaien, C-Tec, Ministry, Samhain, Clan of Xymox, etc. 21:39:20 Lots & lots of das ich. 21:39:40 i like fla :) 21:39:55 haven't heard any of the rest.. except ministry 21:40:21 "connect the goddamned doooots!!" 21:40:39 wli you heard of kommpressor 21:40:59 my mates into front line assembly 21:41:40 fear factory okay 21:43:19 scuze my ignorance, but do guys have a theoretical comp sci school in the uk equivilent to that of like MIT or Stanford? 21:43:39 us yanks are pretty secluded from the rest of the world :) 21:43:55 and those in the middle of the country, AKA Iowa, more than most 21:45:29 --- nick: eks[away] -> eks 21:45:41 well if we dont know their schools.. what makes you think they know MIT or Stanford? :P 21:46:24 cuz the US forces itself on the rest of the world? 21:46:25 well umist, stands for univerty of manchesters institue of science and technology 21:46:31 lol.. o ya 21:46:48 thoug its nto part of manchester anymore, (then again next year were merging back with tehm again) 21:47:09 ment to be the best uni in the country fro getting job afterwards 21:48:43 westlord, upuntil ten eyars ago, all the unis in the uk worked in the same way as MIT and Stanford, they never really had any particualr specialsation they worked on everything, then when goverment tried getting mroe peopel into uni, its cut the amount of funing to the unis created twice as many of the and forced them to specialise, so tht they could get more research money in certain area 21:48:51 they really cuked the whol system up :( 21:49:29 it now means we basic jsut get told go read such and such a chapter its on the exam now bugger off 21:49:34 :( 21:49:36 so the uk's not too great of a place to study right now? 21:49:48 most lectures two busy doing reseach 21:49:49 that's too bad 21:49:52 i dont liek 21:51:02 theres articles in the paper quite a lot about how all this academics are goind on about students being betrayed, adn how disillusion they are. Also unis used to be free here, in fact you used to a gran if you were brainy enough to get into them, now we have to pay for them and the service is going down :( 21:52:06 in the past you had to have to some brains to get to uni, now you can get in without any qualifications, fail most of your degree and still get a certificate at the end, means many degrees in the uk are practicaly worthless and just a complete waste of time 21:52:17 not that im bitter about this in anyway :( 21:52:35 so basically ur uni are going the way that the US's high schools and below are? 21:52:43 aye 21:52:50 that'd piss me off 21:52:56 oh it does 21:53:16 ever think about going to another school in europe? 21:53:22 could be bothered going into about 16 weeks of lectures last year, how much trouble did i get into, zilch 21:53:29 still got through me year okay 21:53:30 :( 21:53:35 uni shouldnt be liek thate 21:53:50 agreed 21:53:59 they should try and stimulate you, and encouroge you to explore and find things that interest you 21:54:48 i think they should have instead of a course say a research module every year, where you can actally research or do a project everyear a bit liek a dissertation, but it id help in knowledge creation 21:55:27 but, you know, "you have to cater to everyone otherwise people would feel bad," right? 21:55:46 as it is, i knwo so many people at uni doing things like pong in visual basic for windows using directx as there final project which is worth 20-% or so of there degree mrks 21:55:48 its a joke 21:55:56 and this is a top tier uni 21:56:28 i've said it before and I'll say it again: that'd really piss me off 21:56:33 yeah but whats the point in dumbing down the ones who can push thigns forward, well get no progress 21:56:42 my high school is like that and I can't wait to get out of it 21:56:57 I couldn't imagine what college would be like, like that 21:57:34 they used have to tiers of higer education in the uk, univeristy the good old fashioned ones and polytechnicals, where were voactionaly based and involved thigns like mechanical engingere, and basic chemistry 21:59:03 now its all jumbled into one mess, and employers cant make heads nor tails of, its forcing to much on the people at the lower end of the scale, as its now expected everyone should go to uni else theres something seriosuly wrong with you, and the top level students struggle and becoem disillious im not top level by teh way but im an idealist and severly disaillusioned) 22:01:08 is that why they pay US chemical engineers so much to come over to the UK? 22:03:57 probably :) 22:04:39 having said that umist apparently is a world renowned center of chemical enginerring excellence 22:05:25 problem being since they introduced tuition fees, umist seems to have been inundated with foreign students, its 60% foreign students in some parts cause they got more money from them 22:06:01 suck 22:06:27 US folk? Asian? 22:09:09 chinese and greek mainly 22:09:27 but there really screwing them over 22:09:36 they chage them more for evderything 22:09:37 yeah australian unis are going down the same path 22:09:59 its casue the goverment wants an educated workforc, it jsut think unis are the answer 22:10:28 but it just means you have a higher proportion of degree students in macdonalds 22:10:48 lol 22:11:39 i know a masters student in microbiology, she worked at macdonalds through college an then uni, now she cant find a decent job so shes had to keep working at macdonalds (not sure if hse full time yet mind) shes been looking for a job for over a yer :( 22:12:07 for jobs you need employers, for employers you need consumers, for consumers you need jobs .. it's a simple cycle.. im guessing growth requires balance 22:13:38 well anyhoo, I'm off to go do something else... probably sleep 22:13:44 but the government is acting like a distortion in the marketplace, by opening these places up and forcing such competion betwen the unis to fill the palces in course, every year the unis have to have more students tehn the year before, otherwise they have funding penality imposed 22:13:49 me two 22:14:05 gn 22:14:23 have a nap uni me thinks tehn brush on matrices before my graphics lecture :( 22:14:34 good luck 22:15:20 im hittin the sack as well; night guys 22:15:28 night 22:29:48 hi 22:30:01 what's up? 22:40:02 quantis: brix is written in crush 22:42:48 --- join: xtremist1 (~root@203.124.236.165) joined #osdev 22:43:17 hi...how can i produce flat binary's from c code? 22:47:59 gcc 22:48:01 =)| 22:51:42 i can load a assembly bin from sector 2 from bootsector 22:52:25 but not C code 22:52:45 i jump to 0200h:0 22:54:26 gn all. 22:56:19 there is a file on it out there 22:56:22 pdf 22:56:31 i386c.pdf i think 22:56:38 something like that 22:57:12 ok.. 22:58:42 does -tText address and the jump address from the bootcode be the same? 23:15:33 --- quit: malenfant ("Client Exiting") 23:21:20 --- join: sleep- (~ivan@adsl-68-21-14-217.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #osdev 23:27:58 --- join: Ogun (~ogun@h197n2fls31o865.telia.com) joined #osdev 23:28:34 --- quit: xtremist1 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:33:23 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:41:54 --- quit: sleep- (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:58:49 ugh 23:59:15 anyone else having problems with dns tonight 23:59:16 ? 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.10.31