00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/02.12.24 00:05:00 --- join: witten (~witten@12-235-22-23.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 00:19:15 yawn, well I should sleep 00:19:17 or read or something 00:19:33 --- join: DorkPunk (rajiv@cs6625167-251.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 00:19:44 Merry Christmas. 00:25:56 --- quit: DorkPunk (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: Robert (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: file (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: zwane_ (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: do (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: Rico (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: asmodeus (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: Divine (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: ascent (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: gab (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: minddog (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: witten (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: malenfant (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: zhware (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: HeavyJoost (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:25:56 --- quit: air (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:26:22 --- join: DorkPunk (rajiv@cs6625167-251.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: witten (~witten@12-235-22-23.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: malenfant (~malenfant@bti7362ky1344.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: zhware (~stoyan@lemon.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: file (jwired@mctn1-2646.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: zwane_ (User-10406@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: HeavyJoost (~HeavyJoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: do (~daemon@194.85.84.244) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: Rico (~rico@node-c-1c6a.a2000.nl) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: asmodeus (~www@h125n2fls33o867.telia.com) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: ascent (Dariusz@Jackowski.pl) joined #osdev 00:26:22 --- join: air (~brand@12-254-199-50.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 00:28:18 --- join: Mathis (~Mathis@manz-d9b94c12.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 00:29:04 heh all 00:29:30 Hello, Mathis. 00:29:42 Hello, DorkPunk. 00:30:19 How are you? 00:30:34 I'm fine, and you? 00:30:53 I'm ok, kind of stuck in my programming though. 00:31:17 me too 00:31:34 seems that the Mesa site is down, I need that... 00:31:35 What are you stuck on? 00:31:43 Mesa 5.0... 00:31:50 trying to get it running in my OS 00:32:06 What is Mesa 5.0? A video chipset? 00:32:12 hehe 00:32:17 it's a library 00:32:25 3D engine 00:32:31 Oh, I see. 00:32:33 compatible to OpenGL 1.2 00:32:37 Wow, you must be far along! 00:32:45 not really 00:33:20 You already have high res graphics! 00:33:26 my 3D.GUI needs to be implemented... then I'm far along 00:33:41 Jesus Christ. 00:33:50 yes? *g* 00:33:58 That's awesome. :-( 00:34:04 I still can't decide on a proper device driver interface... 00:34:09 Hell, or even a kernel architecture. 00:34:28 I had the same problem about 2 years ago... 00:34:51 I want to write a microkernel... But I can't figure out how to properly implement message passing. 00:35:28 do you know how the apps will look like (at source code level)? 00:35:52 No... 00:36:11 isnt it the goal, to get apps running on it? 00:36:21 Yes, eventually... Heh... 00:36:25 That is so far though, it seems like a dream. 00:36:36 how you wanna know what you have to implement if you dont know what to run on it 00:36:40 ? 00:36:41 What type of kernel did you write? 00:36:51 monolithic 00:36:57 kinda... 00:37:03 I see. What is your device driver interface like? 00:37:16 what do you mean by that? 00:37:17 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:37:26 Did you pick a standard, like UDI? Or come up with your own? 00:37:36 I did my own thingy 00:37:43 most things are done by myself 00:37:54 Is it similar to Linux? Major and minor numbers to identify devices? Hooked through the filesystem? 00:37:57 message passing, task switching, process handling.... 00:38:07 Wow... 00:38:12 hehe, minor and major numbers - boring... 00:38:25 I'll give a small example, kay? 00:38:27 Ok. 00:38:33 Keyboard keyboard; 00:38:49 keyboard.open("/dev/keyboard/i8042"); 00:39:10 keyboard.wait_for_key(); 00:39:11 keyboard.get_key(); 00:39:17 keyboard.close(); 00:39:22 thats it... 00:39:28 Wow, C++ stuff... 00:39:38 yep, but only on app level 00:39:42 I see. 00:40:08 you can choose the device by selecting the device file... 00:40:24 you could also set there a COM port or a network port... 00:40:39 (if I would have implemented it there *g*) 00:40:53 I see... 00:41:28 fantasy... 00:41:33 Hmm... 00:42:07 simply tested how some simple app would look pretty good and then developed the libs/kernel functs 00:42:18 fun 00:42:24 This is my idea... 00:42:29 Basically, write a struct that describes a device... 00:42:42 Function pointers for dev_open(), dev_close(), dev_read(), dev_write(), etc... 00:42:49 And then make a two dimensional array of that struct... 00:43:00 And the index would be [major_num,minor_num]. 00:43:04 ick 00:43:07 Later on, I could easily hook this into my filesystem. 00:43:23 if you want to hook it into a fs, just make a devfs 00:43:24 hmm, I would never do it that way 00:43:30 wanna know how I did it? 00:43:35 Yes please. 00:43:51 my virtual filesystem is in RAM 00:43:56 there are the device files 00:44:05 if you read one rawly, you read from memory the struct 00:44:36 the struct has all pointers to the functions the drivers provide plus some infos about the device and the driver 00:44:42 I see... 00:45:06 hmm, I just have a devfs. each device driver just tells devfs to publish a node and hands devfs a list of functions 00:45:11 easy to implement... no problems... 00:45:16 pretty standard way tto do it 00:45:32 my OS isnt standard ;-) 00:45:36 major/minor numbers are totally an artifact of an old solution 00:45:38 geist, Mathis - How did you guys implement message passing? Fixed size messages? One mailbox per task? 00:45:57 DorkPunk: create a mailbox, not fixed size 00:46:05 limited queue space though 00:46:12 but no tied to thread 00:46:14 geist - So it is up to each individual task to interpret the message? 00:46:25 yup 00:46:39 just a chunk of data 00:46:42 In the Minix source code, the word "semaphore" and the word "mutex" do not appear. :-) 00:46:46 I think that is beautiful. 00:46:49 woah, need to read it from my sources to remember ;-) 00:47:00 DorkPunk: why is that beautiful? 00:47:13 my OS never meantioned semaphore and mutex too 00:47:20 geist - Because it seems that with message passing, synchronization would be easier... 00:47:34 geist - It seems that it would be easier to avoid deadlock with a microkernel than with a kernel which is monolithic in design. 00:47:45 also I'm using the technique (intuitivly implemented by not knowing that it was called that way) 00:47:45 not really 00:48:03 deadlock is not any easier to avoid with message passing 00:48:13 geist - I see. 00:48:24 never met a deadlock in my OS... 00:48:32 Mathis - Wow, congratulations. :-) 00:48:41 Mathis - I have not either. Because my OS just boots, then halts. LOL 00:48:45 if I'll met one I'll create a technique to work around... 00:48:46 then you haven't tested enough 00:49:02 deadlocks are everywhere, you pro ably just designed well and avoided most of em 00:49:25 heh, I'm trying to create not that much processes... 00:49:31 right 00:49:44 at the beginning there is only one process working... 00:49:47 I've worked around lots of em, but I've seen a few 00:49:50 kinda single-tasking 00:49:58 had to fix a few, especially smp deadlocks 00:50:18 < 16K processes? 00:50:34 you can deadlock with 2 00:50:39 Ok, I give up for now. I will try this stupid message passing later. 00:50:40 after that it's just overkill 00:51:14 Mathis: deadlocks are multiclients environment feature (single resource - several clients) ;) daikstra 00:51:15 DorkPunk: message passing is very easy to implement 00:51:50 zhware: maybe, I have to discover that myself... 00:52:05 problems are my speciality... 00:52:07 ;-) 00:52:11 Mathis - Do you have any message passing docs? 00:52:34 * geist finds it so interesting that everyone looks for docs for things 00:52:40 I never read any docs for any of this stuff 00:52:50 DorkPunk: I have some docs but only about the hardware my OS is using, not much comments in my sources 00:52:51 geist - I only read docs for ideas. 00:52:51 --- quit: zhware ("Client Exiting") 00:52:53 I just figured it out by example or by myself or by reading books 00:53:10 DorkPunk: it's really easy 00:53:10 geist - I like to be inspired by docs, but usually my implementation is very different. 00:53:15 sure 00:53:20 that's not a great example 00:53:50 I'm more talking about the folks that pop in and are like 'anyone have a link that tells me how to write a {bootloader,text console,etc} 00:54:14 Mathis - I just can't understand the implications of fixed size messages versus variable size messages... 00:54:22 memory 00:54:26 DorkPunk: find it out, try it out 00:54:26 where you store the messages 00:54:28 And how many arguments a syscall should take, maximum. And how many arguments a message should allow. 00:54:30 Etc, etc, etc. 00:54:38 yep 00:54:45 I dont have syscalls 00:54:55 well, I sure have, but in an easier way 00:55:08 a table with kernel functions as pointers... 00:55:21 DorkPunk: stuck the args on a stack, and therefore you have unlimited amount 00:55:29 no CPU ring protection... 00:55:30 otherwise you're stuck with about 6 args 00:55:41 geist - But I don't know how to do that, because a syscall switches stack... The ring 3 stack to the ring 0 stack... 00:56:08 yup, and you have to copy from the user stack 00:56:11 the args 00:56:22 Oh I see. Hmm... 00:56:27 Right now I am passing arguments through registers. 00:56:31 ring 0 code can read ring 3 data... 00:56:51 passing via registers is okay too 00:57:01 that's an architecturally dependant optimizations 00:57:07 geist: he has to decide, what's kay 00:57:36 yup 00:57:46 we present options, he decides 00:57:58 You guys are very helpful. 00:57:59 how he can decide? 00:58:02 I very much appreciate the discussion. 00:58:13 And also, I take everything with a grain of salt. I realize that everything is an opinion. :-) 00:58:18 And eventually, I will make design choices. 00:58:23 if you say, right way, I say left way - what way to take? 00:58:24 I am just still very new and very stupid. LoL 00:58:51 you can also investigate syscall/sysenter instructions 00:59:00 may or may not be useful 01:00:02 dont he have to know what the job of his OS will be? 01:00:13 so that he can decide which techniques to take? 01:00:26 geist - I can not use SYSENTER/SYSEXIT, because I only have a Pentium MMX chip. 01:00:37 SYSENTER/SYSEXIT was introduced with the Pentium 2 chip. 01:00:48 well that settles it 01:01:22 (I already looked into it. LoL) 01:01:35 either way, it's an optimization 01:01:48 Mathis - Well, regardless of the job of my OS, I know that I want it to support virtual memory, multitasking, etc... 01:01:58 I dont worry about optimizations until I need it 01:02:04 Mathis - So far, I have completed that... I also know that I will want message passing, and a good device driver interface. 01:02:38 DorkPunk: if your OS will run only one application (one task), then you wont need multitasking... 01:02:52 also if its embedded hardware you wont need virtual memory 01:03:04 Mathis - I want it to run on x86 hardware, because that is all I have. 01:03:13 no but you probably want to use the mmu 01:03:21 to create regions, etc 01:04:37 --- quit: DorkPunk ("BitchX: use it, it makes you bulletproof") 01:04:45 never understood for what we need memory regions... 01:05:02 interesting... 01:05:20 maybe you tell me why I should use it... 01:05:46 well, I dont know your architecture or goals 01:05:59 but versus no mmu, you probably want at least a minimal amount of protection 01:06:37 I was just walking around in the Linux kernel sources, also other OS sources, they all mention memory regions, but I really dont know why... 01:06:49 well, what's the alternative? 01:06:56 how do you organize virtual memory? 01:07:16 so it's not that you know what they are and can't find a use, it's that you dont know what they are 01:07:21 atm it only allocates unused physical pages by counting up 01:07:33 what about virtual memory 01:07:38 how does it allocate that? 01:07:51 counting up 01:08:08 oh heh 01:08:29 what if you want to create and remove chunks of memory? thread stacks? 01:08:31 till now it only uses memory, doesnt free it 01:08:51 well, so you basically haven't done anything complex enough to need something more complex 01:09:11 ? 01:09:33 well you aren't even freeing memory, so there's no reason to track it 01:09:46 atm, yep 01:09:46 and therefore no need to track 'regions' of memory so you can free it again 01:09:48 for example 01:10:18 okay, what if you want to, for example, map the video cards framebuffer into virtual memory 01:10:23 how do you do that? 01:10:39 I simply do it... 01:10:51 what if you want to remove that mapping later? 01:10:58 I wont... 01:11:10 ah, so now say you want to be able to remove the mapping later 01:11:18 you'ld probably want to do something like 01:11:33 vaddr = map_physical_memory(phys); 01:11:43 then later you can do free_region(vaddr); 01:11:55 effectively a heap at the vm level 01:12:09 a region represents a set of pages with similar characteristics 01:12:53 what are characteristics for you? 01:13:27 backign store (file, swap file, physical memory), read/write, kernel/user 01:13:35 wired or lazy commit 01:13:39 ah 01:13:48 now I see what you mean by region... 01:14:19 --- quit: malenfant ("sleep") 01:14:36 at the most basic level, it lets to carve up virtual space into multiple of page size chunks 01:14:48 you can create a larger region and carve it up into a heap if you want 01:15:00 yeah, I know what you mean... 01:15:09 but a region is purely at the vm level, handles page faults to it, etc 01:15:25 in the case of a mapped file, the page fault causes the vm code to fill it with data from the file, etc 01:15:34 pretty standard stuff 01:16:25 --- quit: do ("Quit") 01:16:29 kay, have to get some drinking stuff... (forgot to buy that) 01:16:37 * geist needs to sleep 01:16:49 n8 ghost 01:16:51 --- quit: spaz ("Client Exiting") 01:33:59 --- quit: lynx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:42:44 --- quit: witten ("bye") 02:02:59 --- join: ink (~ink@user-1121cvn.dsl.mindspring.com) joined #osdev 02:03:01 hey hey 02:03:20 I don't suppose anyones awake 'round now... 02:05:09 --- join: trans (xmbulk@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:05:46 trans! 02:10:43 ink... 02:10:53 hello 02:10:59 hello 02:12:16 and now? 02:12:19 --- join: AMDBiatch (~sclayton@CPE014310117369.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #osdev 02:12:22 --- part: AMDBiatch left #osdev 02:12:29 indeed... 02:12:55 how long should I expect a cvs import to take? 02:13:32 dunno, I'm not using cvs... 02:13:43 hm 02:13:51 grr stupidcvs 02:13:59 I've lost like and hour or so of coding time to it 02:14:03 everything is local... 02:14:07 just trying to make a new repository heh 02:17:22 have to wash clothes... 02:18:19 sucks 02:34:13 kay, washing machine is running 02:35:11 nice 02:35:12 anyone wanna write an OS for it? ;-) 02:35:21 haw 02:35:34 ? 02:35:50 washing mchines should have OSses its just not right 02:36:06 well I suppose... 02:36:11 I take that back 02:36:55 a hardwired program connected a constant running clock allready is an OS, it's also the software... 02:37:09 yeah 02:37:38 how about a 3D gui for that? *g* 02:37:51 or virtual memory management 02:37:58 and multitasking 02:38:00 and SMP 02:38:13 ;-) 02:39:53 hehehe 02:40:15 anyone wanna write a filesystem for it? *fg* 02:42:44 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:43:05 I'm hungry 02:44:10 me too... 02:45:55 mm a little food at least =] 02:47:04 mmmmh, chocolate yoghurt *pretending Homer Simpson* 02:50:11 hehe 02:50:18 the frogurt is cursed. 02:50:46 what is frogurt? 02:51:02 "thats bad" but it comes with a free choice of topping! "thats good!" theh topping contain "uhhhhhh..." Thhats bad. "Can I go now?" 02:51:24 FROzenyoGURT 02:51:45 hey does anyone here wanna code an RTS? =] 02:52:34 maybe you should tell us what you're talking about... 02:52:42 oh 02:52:51 that first thiong was from a simpsons episode 02:53:06 oh 02:53:09 homer was buying lisa a doll, but it wa cursed, but came withh frogurt etc etc 02:55:27 heh 02:59:15 moo 03:00:45 --- nick: dax_ -> dax 03:00:54 don't people ever learn my nick is registered? 03:01:06 Hehe.. same thing here. 03:01:18 Every time I disconnect I have to kill someone. 03:01:34 well yea... it's the same guy each time here 03:01:47 must be retarded. 03:02:11 maybe it's yourself, in a quasi alternated universe *g* 03:02:29 "disaster dragon and the run-time orgasm" 03:02:31 hmm 03:02:37 don't we love poetry on deviantard 03:02:43 -d +t 03:02:44 night all 03:03:20 yesterday i was alarmed at the flavor of my megolo-processor. it was yellow, with a distinguishing fresh tastse. never before has lettuce so tantalized and taunted my every waking hour. 03:03:22 hmm 03:03:26 moo. 03:09:03 --- join: draq (ident@ESS-p-144-138-45-30.mega.tmns.net.au) joined #osdev 03:23:17 --- quit: Robert ("brb") 03:24:52 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 03:25:57 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FDED6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 03:26:07 hey! 03:26:23 merry christmas for everyone! :D 03:26:32 :) 03:27:20 --- join: pengo (~xtofu@CPE-144-132-255-124.nsw.bigpond.net.au) joined #osdev 03:27:23 merry blah blah 03:27:30 hey pengo 03:28:00 hey lodda 03:29:40 so what's happening? 03:29:58 nothing by now.. 03:30:39 i got a webcam and just had a lengthy web conference with a thai friend and her sister. oh joyous novelty. 03:39:06 * dax goes moo. 03:39:12 * dax thinks bout "daxos" 03:40:38 * pengo thinks about retirement 03:40:48 * Robert thinks about "dax" 03:41:16 well i'm going to retire for the evening. night 03:41:44 --- quit: pengo ("Client Exiting") 03:51:07 hi 03:55:36 hi file. 03:56:03 i wanna work on daxos a b it 03:56:03 hmm 03:56:15 * file needs to copy his work onto a floppy 03:58:37 --- quit: Robert ("brb") 03:59:38 bleh 03:59:43 i can't come up with a nice idea 03:59:58 ok I think I'm packed and ready to leave 04:01:29 I've got clothes, laptop, and PDA 04:01:49 ... 04:01:53 rich bitch :/ 04:02:47 am I missing anything... 04:03:53 fortunately not 04:05:24 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 04:06:14 ho Rob'ert 04:08:19 hi Robert 04:09:12 Hey Mathis and file. 04:16:55 WELL 04:17:00 my dad will soon come and get me... 04:18:08 Will he kill you? 04:18:26 --- join: trans (wxcbnh@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 04:19:30 Robert: no :( 04:19:49 :~( 04:20:09 boring... 04:21:56 I packed my laptop and PDA, for something to do 04:23:01 --- quit: draq (Remote closed the connection) 04:28:26 hello? 04:29:41 Hello. 04:29:57 --- join: kemu (~kemu@232.123-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 04:57:15 --- quit: kemu (Remote closed the connection) 04:59:32 --- quit: file (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:59:54 --- join: Ghiottone (~alex@62.98.241.114) joined #osdev 05:00:19 bleh i suck @ doom 05:01:51 --- quit: Ghiottone (Client Quit) 05:04:46 .lol didn't survive for 3 secs 05:04:59 (Thy flesh consumed, first map @ nightmare) 05:08:13 I wouldnt surive for even 1 sec 05:08:47 took me 3 secs to walk into a trap :D 05:10:01 I was faster than you ;-) 05:10:19 hmm 05:10:31 how's your OS doing mathis?µ 05:11:16 fine, if the Mesa site wouldnt be down... 05:12:37 hmm 05:12:59 my friend got himself into some problems at home it seems 05:13:00 damn... 05:13:10 ??? 05:14:08 lol his parents are kinda kicking him out 05:14:08 wtf 05:15:20 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:16:45 why they wanna kick him out? 05:16:54 no idea 05:16:57 makes no sense 05:17:00 well, if he's 36... maybe... 05:17:12 he's 16 05:17:17 oh 05:17:49 at xmas? 05:18:35 yes. 05:18:53 and they call themselve parents? 05:19:19 yes. 05:19:44 well basicly his father is being "kinda" anoying 05:19:55 and his mother recommends him to move out to avoid problems 05:20:19 why he's annoyed? 05:20:33 drunken? 05:20:38 nah don't think so 05:20:49 my friend's grades weren't "that good" 05:21:32 and they think they solve the problem if they kick him out? 05:22:10 isn't going to solve it, i know 05:22:46 it would help your friend to get even worse grades 05:22:54 but not better ones 05:23:44 dunno 05:23:59 might finaly make him realise that he should actualy pick up a book and work. 05:24:32 having problems with family means not really to be able to pick up a book... 05:25:18 hmm depends 05:25:28 you wouldnt be able to concentrate on the stuff 05:26:43 m00 05:27:22 where he will go now? 05:27:26 dax, Mathis: what will you do today/tomorrow? 05:27:35 lodda: work on daxoss 05:27:39 Mathis: no idea... 05:27:42 lodda: sitting at home... 05:28:12 ohh..nice chrismas.. 05:28:18 Mathis: they don't seem to have a problem paying the rent of a place for him to stay though... 05:28:22 chrismas? where? 05:28:35 lodda: wtf is christmas :D 05:28:42 dax: and where exact this will be? 05:28:48 we are the geek. resistance is futile. 05:28:59 ;-) 05:29:03 Mathis: enough places around here, that isn't the problem 05:30:09 dax: maybe it will help him... 05:30:31 --- join: Javanx (~javanx@host128-18.pool21345.interbusiness.it) joined #osdev 05:30:39 lodda: and you? 05:30:40 dax: i would take him for awhile if i was you 05:30:48 i'll sit near a tree 05:31:02 near a tree? 05:31:09 what tree? a file tree? 05:31:14 or directory tree 05:31:19 yah we got a "xmas" tree around here too 05:31:27 a christmas-tree(green) 05:31:36 xmas tree? what kind of data structure is that? 05:31:37 i hate the word "xmas" 05:31:39 but i tend to prefer hashes. 05:32:36 i prefer "haschisch" 05:32:39 *g* 05:32:44 what can you do with a such tree? 05:32:53 kinda B-tree? 05:33:01 lodda: :D 05:33:17 you can sit near to it and grab presents from it's inside 05:33:27 hmm 05:33:39 nice, buy one! 05:33:42 xmas_tree -> File or directory not found. 05:33:55 hmmm 05:34:28 Mathis: have you never had a "xmas-tree" 05:34:40 nope 05:34:46 not that I know of 05:34:57 here in Mainz... 05:35:20 i mean in ya whole life 05:35:41 what will you all eat today? 05:35:46 dunno 05:35:48 ah, yep, my parents have one 05:36:06 pea soup 05:36:07 though they aren't christians? :D 05:36:14 what's pea? 05:36:18 Erbsensuppe 05:36:22 uhm 05:36:26 :( 05:36:31 sorry for you 05:36:41 I LOVE pea soup 05:37:04 well, your problem.. ;( 05:37:16 have washed my clothes... now they're hanging here around to dry... 05:37:24 now my room is full 05:38:01 i guess they won't need a long time to get dry, since you have a 2.4Ghz proc 05:38:07 --- join: lynx (~lynx@pD9544FEF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 05:38:12 lynxie! 05:38:18 and a PIII 1GHz 05:38:36 lynx: sag mir das du kein so trostloses weihnachten feierst.. 05:40:54 also ich feier garnich 05:41:54 schon klar...und das ist noch viel trostloser :/ 05:42:17 :-) 05:44:04 was meinste, wie Silvester hier aussieht... 05:44:04 und was is Silvester? 05:44:29 31.12.02 23:59 Uhr... 05:44:36 du schläfst? 05:44:44 jo 05:45:22 wie traurig :( 05:45:28 nöö, normal 05:45:31 :“( 05:45:55 dabei is silvester wirklich schön :) 05:46:07 des hier ist zwar das erste Mal, dass ich kein Weihnachten feier, aber so sieht meine Zukunft aus... 05:46:45 als ewig allein seiender programmierer... 05:46:52 :-) 05:47:39 fallst du irgendwann mal eine frau finden solltest mit der du kinder hast wirst du vielleicht wieder weihnachten feiern.. 05:47:46 achja, da waren ja noch meine Geburtstage... die feier ich selbstverständlich auch nich... 05:47:51 nee 05:48:06 uhm 05:48:18 du feierst wohl nur deine todestage 05:48:25 ich sag dir mit Gewissheit, dass dieser Fall nicht eintreten wird 05:48:30 ich feier garnix 05:49:04 aha.. 05:49:13 wieso auch... 05:49:41 kennst wohl auch keine gefühle, hmm? roboter Mathis 05:49:54 Ge-was? 05:49:55 *g* 05:51:33 hauptsache das OS wird fertig... 05:52:15 ...........[ohne WORTE!!] 05:53:08 nur Produktivität zählt, nix anderes.... 05:53:22 ja, aber nur in deiner Welt 05:53:31 wo auch immer 05:53:58 beim Menschen zählt auch noch das Gemeinwesen... 05:53:58 sie ist auch deine Welt 05:54:12 das bezweifele ich 05:54:42 du lebst in ihr, ich funktioniere in ihr... 05:55:41 mir fehlen wirklich die worte 05:56:16 warum machst du nich deinen schädel auf und baust ein interface zum PC, so kannst du noch schneller "tippen" 05:56:56 würde ich ja gerne, aber die Software muss noch entwickelt werden... 05:57:02 aber bitte firewire 05:57:08 sowie die Hardware... 05:57:36 wieso akzeptierst du nich einfach das Schicksal anderer Leute? 05:57:40 ich dachte du bist ein roboeter :) 05:57:57 "das schicksal" 05:58:00 tja, dachtest du 05:58:25 hmm..vision of escaflowne -> schicksalsmachine 05:59:41 brb, reboot 05:59:57 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:02:23 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FCCFB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:02:24 why dont he simply accepts my destiny... 06:02:43 hmm...whatever 06:03:04 well, do you want to implement openGL? 06:03:30 Mesa 06:03:42 Mesa3d or what? 06:03:46 yep 06:03:59 cool 06:04:13 to write my 3D.GUI 06:04:39 this will be much work, i guess 06:04:45 correct 06:04:53 at first I need harddisk support 06:04:58 the lib is about 22MB 06:06:03 should be relatively easy 06:06:11 what fs do you want to use 06:06:35 muss den baum schmücken 06:06:38 my own one 06:06:43 cool 06:08:46 --- join: zhware (~stoyan@p621f50.osakac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp) joined #osdev 06:09:44 --- quit: lodda ("reboot") 06:12:14 gtg 06:12:20 watching some Star Trek 06:12:25 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 06:13:53 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FE18A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:21:58 --- quit: zhware ("Client Exiting") 06:23:05 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:27:26 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FF357.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:30:03 --- join: trans (ywfzsk@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 06:30:19 --- quit: lynx ("[BX] Silly faggot! mIRC is for kids!") 06:30:35 --- join: revanthn (~revanthn@203.129.127.66) joined #osdev 06:32:25 heya guys 06:32:44 Hello rev. 06:33:18 --- join: cray (~cray@pc-62-31-208-38-sa.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #osdev 06:33:30 Robert,I want to know more about that project you are doing on AVR 06:34:06 What is there to know about it? :) 06:34:12 anyone know any good site(s) where they give info on the powerpc architecture? i cant find none? 06:34:49 Robert,about the specs of your project 06:35:05 Well... ask what you need to know :) 06:54:02 --- quit: revanthn () 06:58:14 --- join: goat (fixet@12-246-212-64.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 07:03:36 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:04:33 --- part: goat left #osdev 07:07:45 moo 07:07:49 anyone alive/daead? 07:07:51 dead* 07:09:42 yo 07:09:52 anyone know any good site(s) where they give info on the powerpc architecture? i cant find none? 07:10:24 so what os's u guys making? for what platform and in which lang? 07:12:05 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:12:37 motorola 07:12:39 and ibm 07:12:41 search 07:12:44 and you will find. 07:12:50 :) 07:14:12 ok 07:14:14 so what os's u guys making? for what platform and in which lang? 07:14:19 none atm 07:14:29 dax what u planning on? 07:14:37 nothing. 07:14:47 can't find the idea i want 07:15:07 yea sure i could just finish my os like it is now... a decent microkernel... but that's no fun 07:15:24 what u trying 07:15:43 nothing really 07:15:46 just thinking 07:15:46 im just starting out, am doing an os for my project at uni 07:15:51 ah 07:15:57 settled on a design? 07:16:44 not exatly i aint paid much attention to what kind of kernel to use micro/mono etc mono would be easier to prog 07:17:27 i am doing reasearch like doing the write up for why i am making the design decision that i am gogin to make 07:17:42 dax u at uni? college? 07:17:50 highschool 07:18:16 what you planning to use the os for? 07:18:59 well to get me marks for my degreee :) 07:19:08 nah really it is for fun 07:20:12 a microkernel would be cool if i could get the design right 07:20:40 it's useful to get a few points on paper what you want to use it fo 07:20:42 for* 07:20:47 aka your goals 07:22:35 well i would like it to be fast, and provide a decent api so ppl can program for it. i want ppl to be able to install it and then be able to code scientif real time programs for it 07:23:04 but with capabiltires like mulittaksing and mem management. so they can concentrate on just programming there program 07:35:36 hmm 07:36:55 basic goals those are 07:36:56 hmm 07:37:06 maybe i ought to watch less starwars 07:37:11 my english is sufffering 07:39:10 --- quit: cray () 07:43:34 --- quit: Rico (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:43:37 --- join: kemu (~kemu@52.37-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 07:45:08 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81880.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 07:45:36 wosseh 07:46:03 dax :l 07:46:55 merry chrustchove 07:49:14 m00 07:53:36 hmm 07:53:39 daxos sucks. thx. 07:53:54 indeed. 07:54:10 --- join: katkat (~kat@80.178.33.10) joined #osdev 07:54:11 hey anyone know how to do svga under nasm 32bits pmode??? 07:54:15 i want a new, fresh idea... hmm 07:54:33 wossname will explain, katkat. 07:54:46 i know _everything_ about the vga card of course, robert 07:54:55 mov ax, 0xf371 07:54:58 i don't want a microkernel... or just another basic monolithic 07:54:58 int 0x10 07:55:27 and then how can i put pixels? 07:55:30 i used to use the bios 07:55:38 but i guess it cant work cuz of the pmode 07:56:02 ugh no don't use the bios to put pixels 07:56:07 you might consider the black book by michael abrash 07:56:13 yea that's a nice book 07:56:19 it's freely downloadable, as 150 megs of pdf :l 07:56:33 freely downloadable? WHEREEREEEEEEEEE 07:56:48 ddj.com has some links somewhere inside of it.. 07:57:09 http://www.icculus.org/~icculus/abrash_black_book/ 07:57:20 :l 07:57:23 is it legal? 07:57:40 no, the dutch piracy police will bash down your door for violation of gutenbergs 5th law 07:58:07 hehe 07:58:08 wossname:no i know the police will not come to me :-) , but i am just asking for know.... 07:58:22 it's perfectly legal 07:58:29 ok thnks 07:58:56 wossname:it expline svga? 07:59:20 --- join: zwanem (User-10407@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 07:59:23 well.. it explains unchained vga better than any other book, perhaps 08:00:10 i think it at least covers it a bit. if you read the book, you'll be ready to do anything w/ your vga 08:01:08 hehe thnks 08:01:09 ;) 08:06:01 wossname:do you have any example of simple 32bits pmode program using svga? 08:06:54 sorry, i don't... but robert might 08:07:32 Robert:do you have any simple example of simple pmode program using svga? 08:07:44 fuck 2 many simples :-) 08:13:00 --- join: alphakiller (~1234@200.178.75.46) joined #osdev 08:17:49 hey guys ... 08:20:02 --- quit: zwane_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:28:56 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:31:02 --- quit: katkat ("Client Exiting") 08:32:12 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 08:35:11 --- join: trans (yfugqw@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 08:40:01 hey robet 08:40:07 *robert 08:40:08 ;) 08:40:18 I“m coding that compiling stuff .. 09:01:36 --- quit: alphakiller (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:07:00 --- join: alphakiller (~1234@200.178.75.46) joined #osdev 09:10:50 c u later 09:10:56 --- quit: alphakiller (Client Quit) 09:19:14 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:20:24 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.173) joined #osdev 09:25:38 --- join: Syn (~syn@server.stwh.net) joined #osdev 09:26:57 hi 09:27:12 can someone help me setting my gdt and swicthing to protected mode ? 09:27:24 i can't figure out how to correct my problems :( 09:27:44 Syn:use GRUB to setpup a basic GDT and puts your OS in protected mode 09:27:49 er *setup 09:27:59 no i want to do it manually :( 09:28:08 it's educational 09:28:10 only 09:28:11 :) 09:28:39 then read the Inter Manuals to get a basic Understanding about GDT 09:28:46 i've done it :( 09:28:54 my code should be working 09:28:57 it's not 09:29:00 i want to understand why 09:29:07 i've read some manuals 09:29:10 it didn't help 09:29:13 so i came here 09:29:47 which lang did you write the code 09:30:12 asm at&t 09:30:51 Syn,/join #asm 09:31:06 ... 09:31:15 i was there the last two days 09:31:18 --- join: Xeon (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 09:31:27 Hey all 09:31:31 hi Xeon 09:31:49 Xeon: have u ever written code that switches to protected mode ? 09:32:39 No, I just use GRUB. I'm doing my kernel in C++, all the low-level stuff I'm just cutting&pasting from other sources :) 09:32:51 oh 09:32:52 ok 09:32:57 Pretty sad, but it gets the job done :P 09:33:02 yes :) 09:33:13 well i'm only interested in the 'low level stuff' 09:33:22 and i can't figure out why my code doesn't work :( 09:34:25 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FE42B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:34:39 mei görls 09:43:46 --- join: Dokam_ (~dokam@195-57-79-166.uc.nombres.ttd.es) joined #osdev 09:43:51 --- quit: Dokam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:44:30 --- join: trans (xtpear@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 09:47:31 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:50:22 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FD44B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:51:15 --- nick: wossname -> woss|aawy 09:53:48 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:57:44 --- join: lodda (htjonhigfg@p508FF130.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:58:29 --- quit: revanthn () 10:00:12 --- join: jace48 (~Sam@203.195.174.229) joined #osdev 10:00:58 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:02:05 --- quit: ink (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:20:43 --- join: ink (~ink@user-1121ck2.dsl.mindspring.com) joined #osdev 10:28:10 --- join: do (~daemon@194.85.84.244) joined #osdev 10:29:50 --- join: ACME2k__ (~4cm3@p508098ED.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:29:56 --- part: ACME2k__ left #osdev 10:38:58 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:39:06 --- quit: Xeon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:47:58 --- join: Mathis (~Mathis@manz-d9b94c1b.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 10:48:19 hiyall 10:49:00 hi 11:02:03 --- join: trans (kekklz@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 11:05:29 --- part: Syn left #osdev 11:17:46 --- quit: jace48 ("$$$zzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ") 11:36:06 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:46:19 --- join: gab_ (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:46:23 --- join: ascent_ (Dariusz@Jackowski.pl) joined #osdev 11:46:25 --- quit: woss|aawy (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: kemu (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: ascent (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: Divine (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: gab (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: minddog (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:25 --- quit: asmodeus (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:46:37 --- nick: ascent_ -> ascent 11:47:01 --- join: minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 11:47:26 --- join: alphakiller (~1234@200.178.75.4) joined #osdev 11:51:25 --- join: kemu (~kemu@52.37-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 11:51:33 --- join: asmodeus (~www@h125n2fls33o867.telia.com) joined #osdev 11:51:41 hello 11:51:50 hi 11:51:55 what's up? 11:53:37 I was playing cs 11:53:48 what's that? counterstrike? 11:53:55 116-9 was my score 11:53:57 yeah 11:55:03 counterstrike rlz 11:55:16 what os do you use geist ? 11:56:12 I have win2k on my laptop here, and winxp on my desktop and win2k at work and freebsd on my servers and macosx on my mac 11:56:33 I have debian linux as a dual boot option on my laptop and desktop, but I dont use it much 11:56:40 and debian on a secondary machine at work 11:57:18 How many computers do you have ? 11:57:35 I have tons 11:57:45 but in use I have about 4 11:57:54 why do you have tons ? 11:58:28 desktop (winxp), laptop (win2k), home server (freebsd), pro audio recording machine (win98), newos test machine (no os) 11:58:38 imac (macosx) 11:58:50 after that I have a bunch of old machines that I dont really use 11:58:59 --- join: trans (ogbxlt@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 11:59:05 like a next slab, sgi indy, sun workstations 11:59:09 does your occupation is developper ?? I“m a student .. so I don“t need all this ... I require two ... 11:59:24 yep, I write code for a living 11:59:40 how old are you ? 11:59:48 25 11:59:57 oh I c ... 12:00:06 I“m the youngest in the # ... 12:00:08 hehehe 12:00:17 I did 16 last week 12:04:34 cs is for newbs 12:04:55 try q3ut 12:07:23 nah .. 12:07:30 cs is perfect ... 12:07:33 q3 is too unreal 12:07:49 q3ut not q3 12:08:13 Is it a mod ? 12:08:17 yes 12:08:27 for what game ? 12:08:31 ut ? 12:08:31 q3 12:08:39 q3 urban terror 12:08:44 oh I c .. 12:08:49 I don“t know it .. 12:08:57 urbanterror.net 12:09:36 the q3 has a better engine ... perhaps it may be better 12:09:40 --- join: witten (~witten@12-235-22-23.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 12:09:45 it is better 12:09:55 better graphics and nicer effects 12:10:08 oh, I“m so happy today ... 12:10:28 I got all the inconditional instructions of my compiler running .. 12:10:34 It“s only missing the unconditionals .. 12:11:02 eh? 12:13:14 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 12:13:29 http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20021221/ballpc.html 12:13:31 thats kewl 12:14:51 what“s this link ? 12:15:09 --- join: Ghiottone (~alex@ppp-28-16.27-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 12:15:22 whoa ... that computer is cool 12:16:14 how much is that ? 12:16:33 another massively uninformed person asks me questions about newos 12:17:53 geist: what“s the link for your os project ? 12:18:10 I don“t know it yet .. 12:19:03 http://newos.sf.net/ 12:19:05 --- quit: Ghiottone (Client Quit) 12:24:39 alphakiller: I'm sure I've given you that link before 12:25:34 --- join: file (joshnet@65.166.122.14) joined #osdev 12:25:40 * file waves to everyone 12:26:41 Hi there. 12:26:44 sup 12:26:54 internet connection almost went out 12:26:54 I'm at my dad's 12:27:12 super 12:29:13 * file downloads the thing for his MP3 Player 12:29:14 I got an MMC 12:29:34 hmm? 12:29:38 whuts that? 12:29:54 Multimedia Card 12:29:56 my dad bought me one 12:30:00 and the one Iordered arrived today 12:30:29 oh 12:31:43 bbl 12:31:46 --- quit: file ("Killed by BillGates (Windows Linux 98 -- jizz your pants!)") 12:32:09 guys, I have a doubt about checking if a number is a digit. For example, what“s wrong with this instruction: isdigit(tokenPtr)? search_value = atoi(tokenPtr) : search(instruction); 12:32:31 tokenPtr, points for the token that I get from a string .. 12:33:50 how can I verify if the token is a digit or no ?? is that right ?? 12:34:27 I suppose 12:36:23 --- join: ACME2k__ (~4cm3@p508098ED.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 12:38:01 well, I want to do : If is a digit, convert the tokenPtr to an int, else, search for a variable, because if isn“t a digit, is an alpha, that in my case is a variable 12:39:58 any idea / 12:40:00 ? 12:41:21 okay 12:41:33 so what are you asking? looks like you know sort of what you're talking about 12:42:51 I“d like to know another way to do, or what“s wrong with : isdigit(tokenPtr)? search_value = atoi(tokenPtr) : search(instruction);, because this is generating an error when I try to verify if its a digit or an alpha 12:45:37 do you have any idea, geist ? 12:48:11 stay away from ?: syntax 12:48:22 it makes this unnecessarily unclear usually 12:48:50 so, what should I do instead ?: ? 12:49:38 if and else 12:49:53 it's more verbose but often much clearer 12:50:55 well, but how will I use the true/false condition that is digit returns ? 12:51:38 I don“t know another way 12:51:38 if (isdigit(blah)) { /* ... */ } else { /* ... *? } 12:52:03 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81296.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 12:52:58 oh I see 12:53:03 thanks for the hint 12:53:56 --- quit: ink (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:54:03 sure 12:54:36 --- join: EtherNet_ (~sjdfklsd@200-32-118-247-tntmdp1.impsat.net.ar) joined #osdev 12:54:45 hello 12:54:48 merry christmas for everybody 12:55:16 merry chrustchove ethernet 12:56:08 okas 12:56:10 thanks! 12:56:12 goodby 12:56:14 goodbye 12:56:20 I just joined here to greet 12:56:24 --- quit: EtherNet_ () 12:56:50 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:09:45 yawn 13:18:09 --- join: lar1 (~lar1@adsl-63-204-134-96.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 13:23:47 --- join: minddog_ (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #osdev 13:24:20 --- quit: minddog_ (Remote closed the connection) 13:25:44 --- join: sijoange (sijoange@faui00e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) joined #osdev 13:25:54 merrz christmas folkas 13:26:21 --- nick: sijoange -> codefucsh 13:26:28 --- nick: codefucsh -> codefuchs 13:27:47 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:28:33 --- quit: codefuchs (Client Quit) 13:28:44 alphakiller: download crush src and look at number.c 13:29:26 --- join: Xeon (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 13:30:18 air: I found a solution ;) 13:32:16 thanks for your attention .. and merry christmas ... 13:32:31 ho ho ho 13:32:35 merry christimas geist 13:32:35 merry christmas 13:32:38 ho ho ho 13:32:46 merry christimas everybody 13:33:48 c u later ;) 13:33:50 bye 13:34:06 --- quit: alphakiller () 13:34:52 --- nick: geist -> geist-away 13:35:19 --- part: ACME2k__ left #osdev 13:36:12 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:37:39 hey all 13:38:07 hey 13:46:48 --- join: Mathis (~Mathis@manz-d9b950a7.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 13:47:03 re 13:53:05 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 14:01:03 --- quit: Xeon () 14:12:32 --- join: smurf975_XXX77 (smurf975@213-84-66-114.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 14:24:57 --- join: file (joshnet@65.166.122.14) joined #osdev 14:27:07 anyone in here used visual slickedit before? 14:27:34 * file greets everyone from Nova Scotia 14:28:45 hi file 14:35:52 visual slickedit looks cute. 14:42:58 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@gc-nas-01-s129.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 14:53:37 --- quit: file ("BitchX-1.0c16 -- just do it.") 14:56:20 --- join: file (joshnet@65.166.122.14) joined #osdev 14:56:59 --- join: trans (wjbbzm@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 14:57:35 anyone alive? 14:57:48 nope 14:57:53 ain't nobody but us chickens 14:58:16 I'm alive 14:58:17 which editor(s) do you guys use for coding? 14:58:19 just wondering 14:58:23 and surviving with dialup internet and partial cable service 14:58:29 dax: vim 14:59:11 toyed around with slickedit and xemacs today 14:59:27 xemacs feels bloated... they keystrokes feel unnatural and bloated 14:59:31 and takes ages to launch 14:59:40 slickedit looks cute though 15:01:00 my PDA is almost fully charged 15:01:06 I wonder how long it can go for playing MP3s... 15:01:10 screw your pda file :/ 15:01:52 no. 15:02:00 * file deletes daxos 15:02:08 gg 15:08:31 I seem to have some old daxos sitting around on my harddisk 15:08:49 just good history docs - how NOT to do it ;-) 15:09:14 lol 15:09:43 mmm 15:10:28 MultiMedia Mister? ;-) 15:10:37 :) 15:10:43 I have 2 64MB ones now ;) 15:10:55 one arrived when I was driving to Nova Scotia, and the other my dad bought me 15:11:22 very thin... thinner than I thought 15:13:26 Mathis: how old is it? like 1-2 years? heh 15:17:51 23 15:18:08 2-3 15:22:01 ugh ancient 15:22:01 lol 15:28:00 --- join: jsr (www@du-13-155.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 15:29:16 so dudes 15:29:53 and dudets 15:30:38 :) 15:30:45 Santa comes tonight 15:32:08 bbl perhaps 15:32:09 --- quit: file ("BitchX: roqz yer nutz!") 15:33:53 my poetry is improving folks 15:34:01 remember my cow/gnu poetry? 15:34:30 no thanks 15:34:48 well i really improved 15:34:55 and i don't do cows/gnus anymore 15:35:06 still short ones though 15:35:18 i'll use /'s for newlines 15:35:35 a thorn for me/a thorn for you/this rose has more than/enough for two 15:35:40 how bout that one? 15:35:59 :l 15:36:28 i feel pain/i feel rage/anger at putting/myself in this cage 15:36:30 no? 15:36:31 ... 15:36:37 i'm TRYING PEOPLE I'M TRYING 15:37:03 my wounds they will not heal / i'm going to go over the edge / PAIAINAKM fuck my white walls/fuck my white carpet/who cares bout the colors/on the curtains 15:37:42 last one makes no sense at all i know 15:37:50 :) 15:39:23 wossname: are they already better than the cow ones? 15:40:21 i like that last one. fuck my white walls 15:40:25 heh 15:40:28 thx 15:40:54 cut me open/read my blood/distinguish the difference/between sadness and pain 15:41:25 too angsty 15:41:42 hmm these things work pretty nice to vent stuff 15:45:11 later 15:52:53 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:59:20 --- nick: geist-away -> geist 16:00:32 yawn 16:01:19 "Morning". 16:02:10 --- quit: wossname ("^%__!_@%!_@%_!_") 16:02:40 morning 16:02:45 playing with the nephew 16:02:47 he's 3 months old 16:03:06 he likes the computer 16:03:33 :) 16:07:46 --- join: n0vice (~n0vice@pcp02102499pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net) joined #osdev 16:24:03 heh, me gets an email to go check out the uuu web page 16:24:12 and of course it doesn't work worth a damn in IE and they dont care 16:24:24 I hate that, instant pet peeve 16:25:44 I cannot read their site, so fuck them 16:28:15 I never understood why people a) give a shit about that 16:28:29 and b) think it's a good idea to fuck over their readers as an example 16:33:41 --- join: redblue (star@ppp015.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 16:35:07 http://www.againsttcpa.com/ 16:39:50 blah 16:41:34 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:49:27 --- join: DRF (~daniel@host81-7-61-18.surfport24.v21.co.uk) joined #osdev 17:06:51 --- join: two-na (two-na@dsl081-235-224.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #osdev 17:07:29 Hi two-na 17:07:39 hi two-na, DRF 17:07:59 Hi geist, how are you? 17:08:08 doin alright 17:08:25 Good good 17:08:59 Been programming in the xmas holidays or taking a break? 17:09:06 not programming at all 17:09:18 been on break, kind of wanting to code a bit but I'm not at home 17:09:32 Ah, where are you currently? 17:09:43 --- join: phlamer (phlamer@dialup-65.59.99.38.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 17:09:54 seattle, at my sister's house 17:10:09 Meeting up with family then I take it 17:10:54 with my sister at least. I'll head to Texas in a few days and hang out with my parents and the rest of thje family for a bit 17:11:16 my sister has a 3 month old baby, and it's too early to travel with em, so they didn't go to texas 17:11:27 and plane tix from san francisco to seattle are super cheap 17:11:39 Nice 17:11:59 hello. :) 17:12:12 happy christmas all 17:12:38 I've been sidetracked from playing around with osdev code due to college work I have to get done, and socialising. 17:12:48 And merry xmas to you to two-na 17:12:53 socialising, shmocialising 17:13:15 only socialise when you need to learn something from others 17:13:20 otherwise it's a waste 17:13:30 nobody cares about the way you feel anyway, right? :) 17:14:04 I socilise so that the ppl I sociallise with will help me out with essays which I tend to forget and do at the last min. 17:15:03 Well I don't know where you come from but I like to think that some ppl at least take a passing interest in me and how I feel. 17:15:22 --- quit: witten (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:16:25 yah 17:16:31 hmm 17:16:35 Interesting 17:16:45 --- quit: jsr ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over IRC.") 17:16:50 I feel that everybody thinks I judge them 17:17:04 And if that isn't true well don't go around bursting my bubbles. :p 17:17:09 you in LA area two-na ? 17:17:27 geist: Yes--Los angeles. 17:17:37 cool, just wondering 17:17:42 your ip has lax in it 17:17:47 yes 17:18:12 :) 17:18:17 --- join: file (joshnet@65.166.122.14) joined #osdev 17:18:23 Hi file :) 17:18:33 greetings 17:18:38 DRF: I'm not quite sure. From staying away from others I learn that they like to worry about trifles 17:19:06 Isn't that a kind of food? 17:19:13 I'm thinking of starting a slab allocator here 17:19:59 just check this out: http://207.194.200.122:8000/ 17:20:26 Explain (I'm not quite sure what the definition of a slab allocator is, soz) 17:21:02 two-na: what is that? 17:21:24 geist: I thought I'd share something with others 17:21:35 geist: It's a stream from proton radios archive 17:22:33 alternatively, you may just enter that in xmms or winamp via C-l 17:26:17 --- join: kezz (kezz@modem-693.alligator.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #osdev 17:26:21 hi kezz 17:26:31 hi 17:26:55 oh 17:30:29 howto find link against boot process? 17:30:41 s/against/about 17:31:09 or book 17:32:28 examples in c and asm preferred 17:33:21 Depends what kind of OS you want to boot. Real mode, Pmode, Unreal mode. Also what file system is involved causes variations in boot code. 17:38:06 I want most conventional boot for the last decade 17:38:08 in detail 17:38:09 great detail 17:39:28 buy a book 17:40:33 i've also got a question for you guys. 17:40:43 Why go conventional? The conventional thing to do is to use grub to load the OS 17:41:00 Go ahead ask away phlamer 17:41:02 i'm trying to switch into protected mode (typical newbie..heh)...and bochs is spitting out: >>PANIC<< fetch_raw_descriptor: LDTR.valid=0 17:41:15 i'm not even setting and ldt 17:43:22 any ideas? 17:44:15 I'm yet to play around properly with pmode I'm afraid. What steps have you done so far? 17:45:30 i've set up a gdt with two selectors 17:45:34 (and the dummy one) 17:45:42 then i call: lgdt [gdt_reg] 17:45:45 and then set the pmode bit 17:46:26 lalala 17:46:46 but it's not working.. 17:47:03 kill it 17:47:26 Hmm, well I'm afraid you'll have to get one of the other ppl hanging around here to help, pmode and me don't get along to well at the mo. :( lol 17:48:01 heh..all right 17:48:01 thank 17:48:05 *thanks 17:48:10 file: do u think u could lend a hand? 17:48:33 nah 17:48:40 --- quit: kezz ("Client Exiting") 17:49:12 I see your being your normal helpful self there file ;) 17:49:33 well kezz told me to buy a book 17:49:40 and I was obviously suggesting I needed a title 17:50:06 I don't know of any off the top of my head 17:50:44 Boot sectors are only 512 bytes long (though often you use multistage boot loaders) so hard to write a huge amount on it. 17:51:11 well 17:51:25 boot process and anything that follows that. 17:51:32 If you can write a real mode asm .com file with only BIOS int's you are about there 17:52:20 u think so? 17:52:44 understanding gdts, etc..is pretty important if hes going to be switching into pm 17:52:49 I guess what I am asking is a hardware and os development question 17:52:58 yawn 17:53:07 It has to be loaded to a specific location in memory however and you have to then copy it onto the first sector of a disk. 17:53:16 I'm not quite sure of a way to ask a question that details that other than 17:53:20 how does it worK? 17:53:22 tired geist? 17:53:27 kindo f 17:53:27 hey geist: know what this error means? >>PANIC<< fetch_raw_descriptor: LDTR.valid=0 17:53:29 (from bochs) 17:53:33 means you fucked up 17:53:39 precisely. 17:53:42 thanks 17:53:42 heh 17:53:48 what did i fuck up on? 17:53:50 use the source 17:53:57 the source? 17:54:11 you probably loaded a bad segment descritor 17:54:30 but why is it ldtr? 17:54:37 i'm only loading a gdt 17:54:37 --- part: two-na left #osdev 17:54:40 --- join: witten (~witten@12-235-22-23.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 17:55:50 phlamer: Bootsectors are easy, the had bit comes when you try to actually 'do' something in it (more so loading something from a dodgy filesystem) 17:59:31 yeah 17:59:55 phlamer: what are you loading into the segment register? 18:00:02 you're doing a far jump right? 18:00:31 gdt_reg dw 0x0018, 0, 0 18:00:34 im loading that 18:00:51 which is the length of the gdt 18:00:59 i call: lgdt [gdt_reg] 18:01:43 okay 18:01:51 and then later you load a segment *register* 18:01:54 like cs, ds, es 18:01:57 yup 18:01:59 what are you putting into that? 18:01:59 i load 0x01 into cs 18:02:02 and 0x02 into ds 18:02:06 there's your problem 18:02:10 read up on that 18:02:13 (and then it multiplies them by 8 by itself doesnt it)? 18:02:17 or do i have to multiply by 8? 18:02:17 nope 18:02:20 you do 18:02:26 the first three bits mean stuff 18:02:35 i see. 18:02:39 including if it should reference the gdt or ldt 18:02:58 ie, 0x8 means first entry in gdt 18:03:05 0x9 means first entry in ldt, IIRC 18:03:12 i see.. 18:03:16 yea, i should read up on that 18:03:21 geist: how does it go? 18:03:58 wow, it didnt die 18:04:01 heh..thanks geist. 18:04:42 cool 18:06:17 file: IT GOES 18:06:21 er it goes 18:06:24 darn caps lock 18:06:29 geist: ic 18:06:33 so i have to jmp far? 18:06:37 would a reg jmp do? 18:07:13 far jump loads cs 18:07:31 so in nasm? 18:07:35 jmp far? 18:07:38 that doesnt seem to be workin 18:07:51 --- join: trans (tqddxj@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 18:07:52 ljump maybe 18:09:27 Hmm, think I'll call it a nite. 18:09:46 Merry christmas n all, bye 18:10:19 --- quit: DRF ("Good night everyone and merry xmas") 18:12:37 merry christmas. 18:12:39 --- quit: phlamer () 18:18:23 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 18:22:14 --- quit: witten (Remote closed the connection) 18:24:40 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:50:29 --- quit: file ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 19:03:37 --- quit: Javanx () 19:04:06 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:20:02 --- join: Xeon (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 19:40:45 --- join: zhware (~stoyan@lemon.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 19:59:17 --- join: spaz (~kreep@mkc-65-28-12-163.kc.rr.com) joined #osdev 20:01:14 * zhware is away: I'm busy 20:01:52 noog 20:03:17 --- join: witten (~witten@12-235-22-23.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 20:12:57 howdy 20:13:37 yo 20:17:15 sup 20:22:31 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by queer") 20:24:46 --- join: trans (ujpzsi@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 20:34:46 He 20:34:50 *y 20:35:08 yo 20:36:52 hey 20:37:09 with multidimensional arrays in C ... 20:37:35 how are they organized and what dimension is the first? 20:37:39 like ... 20:37:49 array[i][j] 20:38:45 if i were to use array[n] (for the purpose of a pointer) what dimension would n be ? i or j? 20:38:59 --- join: Xeon2 (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 20:39:04 geist: do you know why a \n appears as a wierd symbol in my OS print? :/ 20:39:33 geist: does the programmer have to implement it? 20:39:46 Xeon: becasue \n has to be translated into an actual line break 20:40:00 \n == 0xa 20:40:21 so just print 0xa? 20:40:30 the compiler takes \n and translates to 0xa 20:40:35 well that would suck 20:40:40 oh 20:40:45 the compiler does that 20:40:59 it appears as a wierd symbol then, is there something wrong? 20:41:04 no 20:41:12 yup, just as in the same way a compiler implicitly sticks a null at the end of the lin 20:41:19 does 0xa have to be initialized to a linebreak? 20:41:26 well ifyou're gonna print to the screen 20:41:41 and you want to go to the next line when you get a 0xa, what would you do? 20:41:46 when you print characters, you must check for \n and then move the cursor to the next line 20:41:59 trans: you gave it away! 20:42:04 oops sorry geist 20:42:10 I was hoping to walk him through the exercise if figuring it out 20:42:12 :) 20:42:16 trans: well I already knew that! :P 20:42:27 well he still has to figure out how to do that 20:42:31 geist: too late, i knew it, i was looking for an easier way out 20:42:35 trans: i know how 20:42:39 ok 20:42:47 trans: the thing is my compiler working for me 20:42:56 i was looking for an easier way. 20:43:08 so geist, have an answer for my question =) 20:43:16 huh? it's a couple of lines of C, how can it be easier? 20:44:26 while (*cp) { ... if (*cp == '\\') { if (*(++cp) == 'n') { ++off; ++cp; if (*cp == 0) return; } } ... }; 20:44:36 geist: weird compiler error 20:44:45 geist: my compiler gives me a warning with that 20:44:47 no 20:44:59 nope 20:45:07 '\n' is a single character 20:45:15 the \ is an escape to the compiler 20:45:20 it is 0xa 20:46:52 damn 20:47:10 i know this isnt the C/C++ channel, but 20:47:12 if (*cp == '\n') { 20:47:12 ++off; 20:47:12 if (!(*(++cp))) return; 20:47:12 } 20:47:13 when in doubt, figure it out 20:47:25 C:\DJGPP\BIN/ld-elf.exe: kernel.o: Unrecognized storage class 127 for /4 symbol 20:47:25 `__ZN5Video5writeEPKc' 20:47:36 (thinks DJGPP is stupid) 20:47:46 that error doesn't even pop up until i test *cp 20:48:02 geist: ive been figuring it out all day today, seriously 20:48:09 I dunno 20:49:31 * trans ponders the emmense quantity of porn in existance 20:50:19 gosh, you could could fill all the digital storage space in the world with porn and still not have enough room 20:55:26 --- quit: Xeon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:59:58 later 21:00:02 --- nick: geist -> geist-away 21:10:51 --- join: jace48 (~Sam@203.195.174.229) joined #osdev 21:28:56 --- quit: witten ("bye") 21:29:37 --- quit: spaz (Remote closed the connection) 21:29:53 --- part: jace48 left #osdev 21:47:11 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:52:05 --- quit: n0vice ("I like core dumps") 22:05:34 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.214) joined #osdev 22:30:48 * zhware is back (gone 02:29:33) 22:39:23 --- join: alphakiller (~1234@200.178.75.43) joined #osdev 22:45:38 --- quit: Xeon2 () 23:10:57 --- join: trans (mrcsah@fatwire-201-98.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 23:11:24 --- nick: efbrasil -> efbrasil-sleepin 23:12:49 --- quit: revanthn () 23:35:03 --- quit: alphakiller () 23:43:34 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:46:23 --- quit: zhware ("Client Exiting") 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/02.12.24