00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/03.02.09 00:07:10 --- quit: Mathis ("Shutdown sequence initiated...") 00:12:40 --- join: sayke (~abuse@sttldslgw29poolC30.sttl.uswest.net) joined #osdev 00:35:16 --- nick: huntrckr_away -> huntrckr 00:43:48 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:06:36 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@manz-d9b95668.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 01:06:49 re 01:25:27 does anyone here know if the APIC and the PIC are the same thing... i always thought so, but it seems to me from Intel's docs that the APIC is an extra chip between the 8429 PIC and the CPU? 01:27:49 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-185-71.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 01:28:25 --- quit: Mathis ("Shutdown sequence initiated...") 01:31:02 terve 01:32:44 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:33:18 hi mur 01:39:48 --- nick: huntrckr -> huntrckr_away 01:40:11 --- join: wl (philipp@pD954E689.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 01:41:46 --- join: ChiRon (~Unknown@AFontenayssB-103-1-2-231.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 01:52:40 --- quit: kreep ("Client Exiting") 02:12:44 --- join: trans (kjtglu@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:16:28 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@manz-d9b95668.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 02:16:52 moin 02:19:31 terve 02:29:08 --- join: kyelewis (kyelewis@client-203-166-108-52.net2000.com.au) joined #osdev 02:32:18 --- join: lodda (~htjonhigf@p508FD96A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 02:32:25 hey 02:32:32 any interesting news? 02:32:38 terve kyelewis ja lodda 02:32:39 or something? anything? 02:32:52 hi 02:32:54 shall i take that as a no? 02:32:54 :P 02:34:39 * lodda feels much better today 02:34:46 ? 02:34:52 you felt bad yesterday? 02:35:01 * lodda was ill yesterday 02:35:23 but you're better now? thats good :) 02:35:28 not sick? 02:38:30 hmmm....where is the difference? 02:38:45 heh 02:38:57 it sucks to be sick 02:39:02 ? 02:39:07 and it doesnt suck to be ill? 02:39:20 "ill" sounds sooo school-like 02:39:31 lol 02:39:44 if you say so :) 02:39:46 heh 02:40:19 at school you dont learn to say "sick", they tell you to say "ill" 02:40:28 ? 02:40:36 they do? 02:40:51 they do 02:41:20 nah 02:41:26 maybe to you... i've not been taught to say ill instead of sick 02:41:28 i've learned "sick" as well 02:41:28 :P 02:41:50 i dont feel well not today hone 02:41:51 y 02:41:53 saying "oh, i was ill" would sound a little anal-retentive to me 02:42:06 you ill-minded people! 02:42:09 lol 02:42:15 agh 02:42:16 *ah 02:42:22 there's one case where ill isnt the same as sick 02:42:23 :) 02:42:30 sureee 02:42:46 the state of sickinois 02:42:46 i've learned "sick" as well as sick, i mean 02:42:51 "ill-minded" and "sick-mimded" dont mean the same thing 02:42:52 :) 02:42:59 sick-minded even 02:43:03 born bucket in head 02:43:10 (tm) 02:45:58 NO 02:46:00 SILENCE 02:46:06 I*M RICH! SILENCE IS GOLD! 02:46:08 YES! 02:46:30 hehe 02:46:54 lodda interested in programming? 02:46:56 i have interesting idea 02:47:03 perhaps not even difficult to create 02:47:05 silence is golden ANDall that glitters is not gold 02:47:23 mur: what? 02:47:28 voxel editor 02:47:37 i have all the graphics you might need for editor 02:47:43 and the algorithm somewhere 02:48:04 hrm..what is a voxel-editor? 02:48:06 all you would have to do is to put it together 02:48:12 voxels are 3d bitmaps 02:48:20 there are not really any good editors for them 02:48:33 * lodda is not into graphics/gui programming...sorry 02:48:41 voxels are used in medication (as very large picutures) and in games 02:48:51 it's 3d programming 02:49:03 and woudl demand mathematical thinking 02:50:22 hrm 02:50:28 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:51:28 * lodda isn't into 3d programming/mathematics :-(. He just did some openGL. 02:51:42 it is not open gl related 02:51:47 it's low level optimization 02:51:49 * lodda knows 02:51:55 oaky 02:52:05 yeah! go graphics! :) 02:52:07 hehe 02:52:14 yeah.. GO 02:52:16 :) 02:52:31 no... dont stop... must... keep... image ;) 02:52:34 * lodda knowsw how to draw a pixel, a line and a circle! :-) 02:52:37 hehe 02:52:41 :) 02:53:19 lodda: now just draw 300000 more and you've done... one frame :) 02:56:44 gotta reboot, brb 02:56:46 --- quit: lodda ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 02:59:59 --- quit: malenfant ("sleep") 03:00:33 --- join: lodda (~htjonhigf@p508FD96A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 03:00:47 --- quit: dh ("Fhtagn-Nagh Yog Sothoth") 03:01:14 back 03:01:29 okay 03:15:29 rebooting, brb 03:15:30 --- quit: Mathis ("Shutdown sequence initiated...") 03:19:02 --- join: dh (~dh@80-235-52-193-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 03:21:48 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@manz-d9b94c17.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 03:21:59 moo 03:22:01 re 03:22:08 boo 03:22:13 eek! 03:22:18 quaak 03:24:02 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:25:10 dax 03:25:22 wb Mathis 03:25:24 lodda. 03:25:57 oh..there is a Athlon Xp 3000+ already? didn't know that... 03:26:06 uhm no isn't release yet 03:26:29 Virtual PC seems to be cool 03:26:47 barton will be released on monday iirc 03:30:10 i really don't get this bug 03:30:36 now my printf only calls puts with the format string, doesn't format it or anything 03:30:38 and it still doesn't work 03:30:47 hehe 03:31:00 did you try another compiler? 03:31:20 no, i wanted to try gcc 3.2.2, but for some reason it fails compiling :| 03:31:26 ehehe 03:31:46 looks a bit like Microsoft *gggg* 03:32:07 lol 03:33:10 it's kinda bad when a release doesn't compile due to a constant being undefined :| 03:33:26 then define it 03:33:29 did it 03:33:36 and? 03:33:56 heh, installing WinNT 3.51, and it keeps asking me for a SPOCK.SYS *ggg* 03:34:07 "installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables." 03:34:19 haha 03:34:22 hehehehe 03:34:26 lol 03:34:40 that's a good one :P 03:34:48 and ok i wouldn't say anything if it failed for some weirdo target 03:35:01 but if you can't get it compiled for i386-elf... 03:35:44 get some updates of your distribution 03:35:56 uhm cough cygwin cough 03:36:08 well 03:36:09 heh 03:36:16 cygwin doesnt create elf binaries 03:36:19 with gcc 3.2.1 03:36:23 CROSSCOMPILER mb. 03:36:28 cygwin gcc is completely hopeless 03:36:45 in fact, cygwin is completely hopeless most of the time :P 03:36:53 yes cygwin is hopeless 03:37:00 but i don't have an alternative actualy 03:37:13 cant you load linux somewhere? 03:37:16 try Virtual PC 03:37:20 or use djgpp? 03:37:22 and install a distrib there 03:37:28 oh yea compiling under virtual pc... suuure 03:37:37 kyelewis: djgpp is worse than cygwin. 03:37:40 dax: lol, i kinda see your point :P 03:37:40 Virtual PC is incredible fast 03:37:50 Mathis: yes, but its a trial 03:37:55 i have another definition of "incredible" 03:37:56 and? get a crack 03:38:03 I have one 03:38:06 Mathis: i could see that coming... :P 03:38:12 Mathis: you've found a serial for VirtualPC somewhere? o_O 03:38:16 yep 03:38:23 serial+crack 03:38:26 bleh i hate windoze 03:38:55 dax: i'd have linux-only laptop, if my pcmcia worked with mandrake :( 03:39:05 eeek mandrake 03:39:09 * dax dies 03:39:10 but i have to settle with dual-boot 03:39:17 what's wrong with mandrake? 03:39:20 alot. 03:39:31 less than cygwin :P 03:39:46 Mathis: where have you found it? 03:40:00 somewhere ;-) 03:40:02 i ran linux for uhm 7 months, then gentoo practicaly killed itself, went with freebsd again for a couple of months and then i got tired of my dad constantly bugging me and reinstalled windows xp 03:40:18 Mathis: very helpful :P 03:40:24 Mathis: Hah. 03:40:30 dax: and that makes mandrake bad because...? 03:40:39 i don't like mandrake 03:40:43 i just hate it actualy 03:40:46 don't ask me why 03:40:48 want it from me? 03:40:49 do you like any linux distro? 03:40:57 uhm gentoo was decent, not anymore though 03:41:00 i guess debian is ok 03:41:02 and lfs 03:41:06 and crux isn't too bad 03:41:08 Mathis: yes..would be nice :-) 03:41:09 i was thinking of installing either gentoo or debian 03:41:17 beehive was nice, but i think it died 03:41:19 debian. 03:41:21 don't do gentoo 03:41:40 what's happened to gentoo to make it so bad? 03:41:46 gentoo was nice when i started using it... but after a few months more and more packages just failed to emerge 03:42:02 you need to download Connectix Virtual PC 5.1 Trial first 03:42:04 openoffice, openoffice-bin, ... 03:42:07 mom 03:42:09 alot of things didn't work 03:42:31 Mathis: that makes sense :P 03:42:46 www.crack.am or www.cracks.am 03:42:58 http://preview.connectix.com/trial/downloads/VPC_51_Trial.exe 03:43:03 debian is pretty "ok" 03:43:15 lfs is nice, but maintaining it is a pain 03:43:15 VPT5-6720-4743-5321-2093 03:43:36 ok, thanks, Mathis 03:44:19 if you want the crack, contact me in private ;-) 03:44:22 omg windows sucks soooo hard. 03:45:11 multitasking in windows is crap 03:45:22 feels really slow 03:46:17 --- join: dax|debian (~dax@81.11.150.117) joined #osdev 03:46:24 hi. 03:46:33 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:46:36 hehe 03:47:07 --- join: lodda (~htjonhigf@p508FD96A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 03:47:31 ah 03:51:11 --- join: Boney (4f861ca39c@dsl-203-113-196-89.VIC.netspace.net.au) joined #osdev 03:51:24 compared to VMware Virtual PC is really fast 03:51:35 except for install 03:51:37 :P 03:51:40 ? 03:51:43 but after that it's quite fast 03:51:52 installing an OS in VirtualPC is slooooooow 03:52:02 also in 5.1? 03:52:31 yeah, its pretty slow to install 03:52:35 and did you use ISOs on your harddisk? 03:52:58 here it installed WinNT 3.51 in 10 minutes# 03:53:18 Mathis: no, i'm talking an actual CD of course 03:53:19 * lodda has to reboot, brb 03:53:21 --- quit: lodda ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 03:53:25 of course ISO's will be faster 03:53:48 maybe your CD drive is slow ;-) 03:53:59 but as i dont have an ISO of these OS'es, and don't want to make one just to install it in virtualpc 03:54:08 Mathis: i dont think so : 03:54:09 *:P 03:54:52 heh, also a bad CD can slow down the CD drive 03:55:16 and you're implying that... all of my cd's are bad? 03:55:21 yep ;-) 03:55:40 hehe, SPOCK.SYS *g* 03:55:54 hehe 03:56:17 my ipv6 address is 3ffe:0b80:0003:01bf 03:56:24 ? 03:56:31 sorry 03:56:35 wrong channel :P 03:56:38 hehe 03:56:39 pfff 03:57:33 hey... at least we're having some *interesting* discussions on other channels 03:57:38 pst! Mathis are you ready to DoS kyelewis? 03:57:38 ;) 03:57:49 seems that WinNT 3.51 doesnt like 4GB harddisks *g* 03:57:49 kyelewis, where? 03:58:02 mur: its stopped now 03:58:09 Mathis, stupid are you? it says there 3,51 GB is the maximum! 03:58:13 mur: lol... lets not, and say we did :P 03:58:19 really? hmm 03:58:47 reinstalling... 03:58:57 or maybe those numbers are just random 03:59:01 3.0 03:59:02 1.0 03:59:04 3.11 03:59:08 3.51 03:59:12 98 95 03:59:14 200 03:59:16 2000 03:59:21 doenst make sense 03:59:33 no, it tells how many installation floppy disks they need 03:59:33 *g* 04:00:17 there also has been a 3.2 04:00:21 uhm weird 04:00:29 i have daxos running in bochs under vmware 04:00:30 it's chinese version! 04:00:33 Mathis, 04:00:34 chinese! 04:00:38 naah 04:00:41 and it seems faster than in bochs on windows (native) 04:00:42 yes 04:00:54 the version at the GUI gallery is chinese 04:01:02 and it works with gcc 2.95.4 04:01:10 therefor i can conclude it's a compiler bug ? 04:01:24 toasty technology is gui bible 04:01:25 :D 04:01:37 seems alot like a compiler bug atm 04:01:43 what do you think where I got WinNT 3.51 from? ;-) 04:01:48 oh well that just sucks doesn't it? :D 04:01:57 dax, yep 04:02:11 ok going to revert to 2.95.4 for development of daxos then. 04:02:14 use Microsoft Visual C++ compiler ;-) 04:02:45 * dax|debian dies 04:02:53 vc++ is bad. really bad. 04:02:58 asking myself with what compiler they compiled all these Windows versions... 04:03:39 grrr 04:03:54 "Setup cannot install on the current processor." 04:04:04 it is ALREADY RUNNING there 04:04:15 anyhow going to quit vmware 04:04:25 it drags the rest of my machine down to slowness :( 04:04:41 --- quit: dax|debian ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 04:06:07 hmm 04:06:28 hehe i love my 3mbps adsl 04:06:41 gonna install WinNT 4.0 there... 04:07:50 damn, dont remember which CD that was *g* 04:07:51 --- join: lodda (~htjonhigf@p508FD975.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 04:16:37 --- join: kyethespy (kyelewis@client-203-166-109-147.net2000.com.au) joined #osdev 04:19:55 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:22:20 BOO FOR CYGWIN... ugh. 04:23:54 gonna install Win2K 04:23:58 didnt find WinNT 04:24:37 i got nt 4 04:24:57 heh, we have NT4 everywhere at work 04:26:38 I wish I could get an AlphaStation emulator or an AlphaStation itself... including OpenVMS 04:28:01 hui! 04:28:09 Moo 04:28:11 Win2K is installing incredible fast from CD-ROM 04:28:30 Mathis: try ebay? 04:28:42 ? 04:28:46 for an alpha 04:28:50 ah, yeah 04:28:58 we also have AlphaStations here at work 04:29:04 steal one :D 04:29:14 they would see it 04:29:19 they would? 04:29:23 yep 04:29:28 damn. 04:29:37 they are part of our letter sorting machines 04:29:45 they are the machine control computers there 04:30:53 i wouldn't mind an alpha 04:32:17 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400152914&category=1486 04:32:18 ooh. 04:33:04 --- quit: kyethespy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:33:05 actualy those O2s look much better 04:33:10 neat 04:33:26 woah, 2 serial ports and one parallel port! 04:33:30 gonna buy it!!!! 04:33:31 *g* 04:33:58 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401246593&category=1486 04:33:59 lol. 04:34:55 wtf? 04:37:14 that's pretty large 04:38:28 but just 600? 04:38:54 yes 04:38:59 only 150-200mhz cpus 04:39:15 still, 10 CPUs 04:39:27 200er Alpha CPUs are faster than 1GHz Intel ;-) 04:39:33 --- join: kemu (~kemu@104.44-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 04:39:57 io 04:40:02 lo 04:40:07 22 mb cache alltogether 04:46:48 ok i reinstalled cygwin... 04:46:56 now recompiling my cross compilers 04:49:38 ... 04:50:03 wft. 04:50:13 ok guess that's no more daxos then. 04:51:42 ?? 05:01:35 --- join: trans (yyjkpy@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 05:11:19 --- nick: lodsb_out -> lynx 05:14:30 hello lod's bout 05:15:16 lol 05:15:20 hi lynxie 05:15:54 netpbm is 15 years old 05:16:22 terve trans ja kemu 05:19:27 * mur likes lynx (browser) 05:19:32 it's small enough 05:20:18 i wish there was multitabbed graphics browser too (no flash, no java or those optional, js optional, only the necessary. no IM or email clients) 05:20:34 finished installing Windows 2000 05:20:44 nice 05:21:04 wow! 2000 floppies! 05:21:21 simulated floppies 05:22:28 Aargh zillions of graphics files 05:22:32 why are there so many? 05:22:40 because... 05:22:43 just because 05:27:50 gtg, sleep 05:27:54 --- quit: Mathis ("Shutdown sequence initiated...") 05:28:03 mehh meehhh 05:28:05 hey duzded 05:28:07 dudes 05:28:36 mehhh watcom compilers opsnoueces 05:28:40 opensourced 05:29:28 wee. you seem drunk :) 05:30:15 3pm a sunday afternoon. Hooray. 05:30:23 hey Robert. 05:30:38 whats so good about that? You like Mondays? 05:30:39 * Robert plays Kinks - Sunny Afternoon 05:30:44 Het mors 05:30:54 Hey 05:30:59 :) 05:31:02 Ehm... I kind of do. 05:31:04 Only one class. 05:31:07 oh. :) 05:31:08 End school before 10 05:31:15 ohh.. :) 05:31:22 Good that you dont have monday blues 05:31:38 oh. we are just 4 hours apart. 05:31:42 www.openwatcom.org 06:08:17 hi 06:08:35 no echo :( 06:10:10 anyway, Cant I compile a C program using Gcc and load it in some memory location. Jump there from my bootcode and start executing the C code? I could execute assembly in that location. Wondering if anything extra is to be done for C. 06:10:26 the C code is just main(){int i=0; return 0;} 06:10:43 Hm. 06:10:57 Just copy somebody's solution. 06:11:04 Did you get those old primula sources? 06:11:12 yeah. I have em 06:11:25 so something more needs to be done? 06:11:25 Figured out what I'm doing? 06:11:36 Usually, yes. 06:11:43 hmm. No, didnt start looking at other code. thought this would work 06:11:49 ohh. okay 06:11:50 You often have an executable format. Liek ELF. 06:11:55 like 06:11:58 hmm.. 06:12:21 so I guess I cant just do a 'gcc mycode.c' 06:12:32 ok. will look at this now. 06:13:33 Well, you first compile the stuff, link all object files together, and then use that file 06:13:49 hmm. But I have just one file 06:13:56 that small C program 06:14:09 --- join: Aardappel (wvo96r@p508C4E3E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:15:27 what I have is a bootcode(which goes to Pmode, then jumps to 0x09000) and the C code which is loaded at 0x09000 06:20:39 --- join: file[bed] (jwired@mctn1-1072.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 06:22:20 --- join: kaze (Kaze@ca-bordeaux-13-20.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 06:26:22 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:26:55 --- quit: Boney ("ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz") 06:27:23 --- quit: dh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:31:50 --- quit: kaze ("Leaving") 06:54:44 --- join: df (~yakumo@host81-132-75-34.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #osdev 07:08:16 --- join: cray_ (~temp@pc2-staf1-5-cust5.brhm.cable.ntl.com) joined #osdev 07:08:47 when u boot up the pc what is at memory add 0000:0000? 07:09:07 values, variables, numbers and other assorted items. 07:09:22 the interrupt vector table 07:09:25 I think somewhere there you have the interrupts too 07:09:27 *the begin of it 07:09:34 in real mode? 07:09:41 yep 07:09:54 you have the ivt and the bios data area. 07:10:01 tzhe interrupt vector table isn't the interrupt descriptor table btw 07:10:09 does the ivt start at 0 ? 07:10:14 yes 07:10:18 oh ok 07:10:22 so at 0:0 u have intterupts? (this is real mode i am talking about?) 07:10:33 yes 07:10:34 so how big is this nterupts? 64k? 07:10:37 ohh. I think i remember reading comments about this in linux0.01 07:11:04 basically dont use any memory from 0x0000 to 0x5ff, 0x600 to 0x9FFFF is ok. 07:11:18 oh k 07:11:26 0x600>=ok 07:11:46 df: thanks thats exactly what i was trying to get at what is the mem i can start from 07:12:20 df: just to clarify u have 64k intterupt and bios routines there? how big is the bios routine stuff 07:12:46 6000h = ok? 07:13:14 256 interrupts (4 bytes each) 0x0000 - 0x3FF, then bios data 0x400 - 0xsomthing.. free mem starts at 0x600h. 07:13:22 --- quit: asmodeus ("bbl") 07:13:28 df thanks 07:13:31 600h not 6000h. aka segment 060h. 07:14:10 ohh thanks got confused by the 0x way (why do ppl use that ? isnt 600h better?) 07:14:25 not to me ;) 07:14:35 df: hmm 07:15:22 where is a good place to put the stack in real mode? i know u can put it anywhere but is there a convention? 07:16:30 --- nick: gab -> gab[gdb 07:17:31 df?# 07:17:46 well anywhere 07:18:11 what about when setting up the gdt what is a good place for that? 07:18:22 and where should i load the kernel to? 07:18:45 well i load my stage3 loader in at 1mb, and it builds its own gdt after the size of the kernel. 07:18:54 anywhere in free memory is ok to put it in. 07:20:46 so u load kernel above 1mb? i see most ppl do that is there any spefcif reason for that, and what is held below the 1mb 07:21:12 well there is plenty of room over 1mb.. 07:21:27 some old isa cards / dma controllers only work with memory <1mb 07:22:21 df: where do u keep ure gdt, ldt, idt and stuff like that? under 1mb? 07:25:02 no, i keep them wherever i malloc the memory from... which could be anywhere from 1mb to memory_size 07:26:01 df: u just dont use the 1mb? 07:26:57 well my stage3 loader sits at 1mb and calculates 1mb + stage3_loader_size = start of free_memory, so.. i have malloc + free. 07:27:32 ok 07:27:51 it could put gdt/idt/tss in <1mb. it doesnt matter. 07:28:36 1 more question, what does ure stage 1 loader do? load stage 2 from a filesystem or raw? does it also change into pmode? what abou stage 2? 07:29:35 bootsector (sage1) -> grub (stage2) -> my loader (stage3) -> works out stuff and loads my real kernel 07:31:30 what occurs in stage 2? when do u enter pmode etc? 07:31:46 --- join: trans (frfcfj@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 07:32:11 grub puts my loader at 1mb. sets pmode and execs my stage3 loader. stage3 is already in pmode. 07:32:35 --- join: _Bradd_ (bradd@d57-56-148.home.cgocable.net) joined #osdev 07:32:35 * file twitches 07:32:46 my mother is vacuming again... everyday... even though nobody was home yesterday... 07:32:49 * file hates... this 07:32:56 --- quit: file[bed] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:33:12 :( 07:33:22 alwful noise 07:33:29 yes 07:33:56 df thanks 07:35:43 cheers 07:35:55 file: so do some vacuuming for her... 07:36:12 df: she'll redo it because she'll think I didn't do a good enough job 07:36:59 :) 07:37:36 WELL 07:37:44 I think I'll restart so I can test this network bridging app out 07:37:45 BRB 07:41:02 is i put the stack segment at 9000h it will actually be at 90000h. is this correct? 07:41:21 also the boot up code is loacated at 7c00 = 7c000h? 07:42:21 ? 07:44:48 yeah 07:44:59 mors thanks 07:53:12 --- quit: file (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:56:34 --- join: apple (~pietro@ppp-252-162.25-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 07:56:47 hello 07:56:55 a byte is 8 bits in x86 and a word is 2 bytes? is this corect 07:57:06 Hmmm.. 07:57:13 meheh 07:57:14 That's what you usually call it, yes. 07:57:26 * lynx is preparing his text for dramatic course stuff 07:57:32 Although I guess you could say that the IA32 word size is 32 bits. 07:57:49 Assemblers tend to call them double words, though. 07:57:54 ye 07:58:15 but dont they say double word to 64bits on 64bit boxen? 07:58:19 call 07:58:24 so a word is 2 bytes? what is it when u enter pmode? 07:58:39 Heh.. 07:58:51 i have a little problem with pic 07:58:57 hm. anybody have a convienient map of boot-time memory layout? i'd really like to know exactly where video usually memory is located, etc 07:59:19 sayke: I had some, somewhere... 07:59:32 i remember seeing one a while ago 07:59:40 sayke: i think vid is a b800 or something 07:59:41 sayke: interrupt tables, 0 to 0x400 (linear), then 256 bytes of BIOS data area. 07:59:48 how do i detect the irq that has called and isr? 07:59:52 Video memory starts at segment 0xa000 07:59:56 0xa0000 linear, that is. 08:00:04 how do i detect the number of irq that has called and isr? 08:00:09 Robert: cool. how far does it go? 08:00:09 how do i detect the number of irq that has called an isr? 08:00:11 Anything above that is nothing you should worry about. 08:00:18 hehe sweet =) 08:00:22 sayke: Until like 0xc0000 linear, iirc. 08:00:34 alright, cool 08:00:36 sayke: Anyway, just care about the memory below 0xa0000 08:00:42 0xA0000 - 0xBFFFF video memory. 08:00:42 That's the RAM you got. 08:00:55 df: Yay, I was right for once. 08:01:35 wonderful =) 08:02:23 df i thoht vid mem was at some b800 or something? 08:03:04 nice. -2 tonight. 08:06:25 --- part: ChiRon left #osdev 08:13:18 --- quit: wl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:14:01 --- join: file[laptop] (lan@mctn1-3495.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 08:16:00 Robert says 08:16:22 my Linux install hates me... so does the restore functions 08:16:29 I need to disconnect a CD-Rom drive... brb 08:16:40 file[laptop], get macintosh 08:16:42 :) 08:17:00 then you cant 08:17:01 hmm 08:17:02 nm 08:18:03 * file[laptop] stares at mur 08:18:05 rrrrrrrrrrrrrright 08:19:43 --- join: wl (philipp@p50865A5B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 08:29:33 --- join: lodsb (~lodsb@pD9E63B4B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 08:30:25 --- join: n0vice (~n0vice@pcp02102499pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net) joined #osdev 08:39:35 --- quit: zhware ("Lost terminal") 08:43:28 --- join: zhware (~zhware@external.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 08:46:22 --- quit: lynx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:50:42 guys.. I have an asm code -> { bits 32/extern _c_main/start: call _c_main/ } and a C code -> int c_main(void) { writes something to screen } . I would like to link these 2 up and load it at 0x09000 and jump to this point from my bootsector. How do I link these two up? 08:52:14 nasm -f bin code.asm / gcc -c code.c / <-- this? and Im kinda unsure about using ld to link them up 08:53:07 the nasm code is to be used by the c code? 08:53:25 the c_main function is to be called from the assembly code 08:53:44 you have to mark the c function as extern 08:54:15 bits 32/extern _c_main/start: call _c_main/ << Im doing this in my asm code 08:54:19 aint that enough? 08:54:32 but how do I link them using `ld` ? 08:54:39 i forgot :( 08:54:47 :( 08:54:57 thanks anyway 08:55:08 hmm. most of the net examples are for windows 08:55:11 one of them says.. 08:55:18 like ld nasm.o c_bleh kernel -tText 0xXXXX... 08:55:36 hrm 08:55:39 i forgot 08:56:21 nasm -f coff code.asm / gcc -o3 -c code.c / ld -Ttext 0xFF800000 --oformat binary -o kernel.bin codeasm.o codec.o 08:56:35 I wonder how to convert that under linux 08:57:09 if its under linux you should -f elf, as ld works better. i have had problems using differnet -f with nasm than the native format 08:57:39 ok. -f elf is what i used. but linking is kinda confusing 08:57:57 ld -o kernel.elf *.o 08:59:27 kernel.o(.text+0x1): undefined reference to `_c_main' << :( 08:59:59 hmmm sounds like a missing extern somewere 09:00:47 bits 32/extern _c_main / start: call _c_main / <<< this is my asm 09:00:59 and c code has a function named 'c_main' 09:01:00 globl 09:01:30 its not the old elf _ thing is it? ;) 09:02:16 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@manz-d9b9504c.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #osdev 09:02:22 lemme check with globl 09:02:28 hoi 09:02:49 ohayo mth 09:03:20 globl _c_main <<< kernel.asm:5: error: parser: instruction expected . And, I dunno about 'old elf thing' what is that? :) 09:03:39 global 09:04:28 call _c_main << error: symbol `_c_main' undefined ? 09:04:44 elf adds an extra _ on everythin so maybe its __c_main 09:04:52 ohh okay 09:04:55 --- nick: huntrckr_away -> huntrckr 09:05:30 mors... i will dcc you a linker script... 09:05:32 but in my C code its just 'c_main' 09:05:38 it handles those problems 09:05:47 ohh... okay. that would be cool, huntrckr :) 09:06:08 I was getting kinda tired of this 09:06:18 ive not seen a linker script take care of that stuff before... can you dcc it to me as well so i can look at it? 09:06:22 hi Mathis 09:07:32 hmm. what am I supposed to do with this? :) huntrckr 09:08:00 I mean where do I put this or whatever 09:08:40 ummm 09:08:49 ld link script 09:09:13 ok... i think it's something like ld -T loader.lnk <.o files> -o 09:10:39 --- join: cuebol (Cue@adsl-64-164-114-59.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 09:10:40 and mors, in your .asm file, you dont have to use the leading _ 09:10:40 nasm automatically adds it when you specify the output format to be elf 09:11:46 df: i use flat binary for my loaders and stuff... find it to be much easier than trying to figure out ELF 09:11:56 Man 09:12:11 h & r block.com is fast 09:12:32 problem is, its not relocatable that way, so you have to setup the address where you will be loading it before you link it 09:12:40 ohh okay, huntrckr. That worked 09:12:42 thanks 09:12:53 mors: np :) 09:14:00 * huntrckr wonders whether he should put up a tutorial on how to get your first mini-kernel working in linux?? 09:14:05 If I learn 16-bit ASM now will I have to learn more than the extended registers for 32-bit? 09:14:35 cuebol: depends... you going to write everything in asm? 09:15:05 huntrckr: Nah 09:16:00 then no... only difference i have noticed in my asm between 16-bit and 32-bit is the registers, and the way interrupt handlers need to be written :) 09:18:04 I'm only working on a bootloader atm 09:18:23 now, i wonder if someone can help me... whats the diff between the 8249 PIC (or whatever the number is), and the APIC the Intel docs talk about? 09:18:57 cuebol: whats the bootloader do? 09:19:25 right now its an empty flat text file named boot.asm 09:23:24 It will eventually load the GDT, enter protected, enable A20, setup 4gb of memory, and load a kernel 09:24:29 how do i detect the number of irq that has called an isr?ù 09:24:32 how do i detect the number of irq that has called an isr? 09:25:04 http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/platform/proc/IO-APIC.asp 09:25:04 pic vs apic 09:26:08 cuebol: i would reconsider your approach... you will not have enough space in the bootsector for all that, especially if you want the os to boot from different boot drives 09:26:13 df: thx 09:26:38 huntrckr: Its going to be fixed to floppy only 09:30:31 hmm ms intellimouse explorer mouse driver.. 9mb.. heh 09:31:21 heh... think i will stick with 8259 PIC in this part of the OS... will worry about APIC, and IO-APIC in the kernel 09:32:05 apic is mostly found on smp sytems. 09:32:05 pic is legacy, so its on all systems 09:32:48 my new mobo has APIC 09:33:55 bbiam 09:33:57 --- quit: df ("syntax: ja matte ne!") 09:35:13 --- join: nullify (~nullify@pool-138-89-48-30.mad.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 09:39:26 wee.. that loader script was useful too. Thanks huntrckr. Finally jumped to C from Pmode and executed it :) 09:39:44 --- quit: cray_ () 09:40:54 --- quit: apple ("Uscita dal client") 09:40:59 huntrckr is the man! 09:41:20 ;) 09:41:28 * huntrckr blushes wildly ;)] 09:41:36 hehehe 09:42:13 as long as you dont ask me any questions about memory allocation algorhitms... i suck at those 09:42:33 --- quit: mur ("MUR!") 09:43:17 :) 09:43:42 huntrckr: What would you recommend if it is larger than 512b? Split it up into 2 stanges? 09:43:46 stages 09:45:17 thats what i did... my bootsector loads the next 24 sectors from disk into memory using real-mode calls, sets up a basic gdt, switches to pmode, and then jumps to the new memory location 09:45:47 hrmm 09:46:11 in the second stage, i setup everything from IDT to paging to file system access, which then loads the kernel in... thats the idea anyway 09:46:28 ive gotten up to seting up paging so far 09:47:23 and my second stage loader is 3.2K already :( 09:50:52 I wasn't planning on setting up paging or anything 09:52:55 hmmm, well, paging is a intricate part of my OS's goals, so I have to get it going real early 09:53:30 To tell you the truth I'm not planning on writing an entire OS right now 09:54:00 just a robust, well commented bootloader 09:56:08 heh... been there, done that... want my source code? 09:56:39 huntrckr: That would defeat the purpose of my project :) 09:57:11 ok... just asking 09:57:46 Instead of saying "Hauehauhea I'm going to write the next Windows killer... Where can I download someone elses code for *?" I'm going to get a good grasp on it ;) 09:58:49 cya folks. 09:58:50 --- part: mors left #osdev 09:59:16 i like you, cuebol... you have the right attitude... you will find a lot of ppl on here that say "it has been done... why do it again? use someone elses" 09:59:48 but, i thought maybe you would like my source code more as a reference to see ways of doing things 10:00:20 Sure 10:00:30 send away 10:00:39 If I uses X's code then I'll know WHAT its doing. Not HOW or WHY its doing it. Not enough 10:01:16 but, i did it the hard way, learning from pressing the reset button on vmware like 10 to the power a million times :D 10:02:51 should be able to read what is going on... another great help is a little program i discovered called HelpPC... unfortunately, it only runs under DOS, but it is really brilliant 10:03:07 --- quit: pen (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:03:21 ive got a dos6.22 virtual machine running just for the purpose of using HelpCP 10:03:27 *HelpPC 10:04:03 what does it do? 10:06:06 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@gc-nas-01-s233.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 10:06:58 its like a reference tool... describes everything from hardware devices and how to talk to them, all the x86 interrupts and how they work, and its a C and ASM reference too, describing all the commands and what they do 10:07:11 nice 10:07:19 oh fucking cool 10:07:21 might end up dusting off my old 486 10:07:23 ebay is nagging me 10:07:25 :/ 10:07:42 got a few abuse emails sucks 10:07:56 what'd you do? 10:08:06 cause i was selling windows nt 4.0 10:08:12 bleh assholes 10:09:30 Once you invest in the software its yours for life 10:09:46 i didn't invest in it even lol 10:09:48 got it for free 10:10:33 come on it's still in plastic wrap, unopened 10:10:39 with certificate and all 10:11:16 How much you askin fer it? 10:11:42 uhm dunno 10:11:46 35 euro 10:12:10 Hey! I'm stupid here... USD? 10:13:25 --- quit: n0vice ("I like core dumps") 10:13:36 that's like $36 or so 10:13:52 I use NT 5 10:14:02 but I was thinking about rolling back 10:17:56 * file[laptop] uses 2k Pro 10:18:27 same 10:18:38 I'm actually reinstalling it right now beside me 10:18:46 lilo put up a fight... I had to rewrite my MBR 10:19:14 i have no idea why any self respecting os programmer would still be using windows? 10:19:28 I'm not writing an OS :) 10:19:54 file[laptop]: i know... youre just here to amuse us ;) 10:20:12 yup! 10:20:21 huntrckr: what's so bad about windows? 10:20:32 --- quit: cuebol () 10:20:34 huntrckr: i'm writing an OS and i'm still using windows. 10:20:42 huntrckr: it isn't about self respect... it's about sm. 10:21:02 heh 10:21:18 i'm using windows cause my dad stops complaining then 10:21:23 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FE414.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:21:29 dax: really? 10:21:46 yes. 10:21:50 Win2k Pro has treated me better than Linux 10:21:58 my damn 36X CD-Rom drive won't even work in Linux right! 10:22:07 i prefer freebsd. don't ask me why 10:22:17 personal preference 10:22:26 if i had the strength to reboot, i'd be using windows 10:22:29 it's "cleaner" 10:22:31 the ui latency is so bad in linux 10:22:36 nonononooo 10:22:41 ui latency is bad in windows. 10:22:48 not as bad as linux 10:22:49 much better under bsd/linux 10:22:50 not for me anyway 10:22:52 Linux is worse 10:22:56 for me, the ui latency is awful 10:22:57 in linux 10:23:01 and in windows, fresh install 10:23:04 linux/bsd are much more responsive than wincrapdoze xp 10:23:06 I've seen it on my systems, and seen it at the LUG meetings 10:23:14 well i can't bring my computer to your house 10:23:18 or pay your plane fare here 10:23:22 but it's slow for me 10:23:26 gnome 2.2/X 10:23:31 compiling something on wincrapdoze brings my computer to a halt, it starts to feel like a 486 10:23:41 UI latency 10:23:42 as in 10:23:43 but bsd/linux don't take such a hit 10:23:46 if i drawg a window in a circle 10:23:46 hmm yea i know 10:23:48 it'll lag 10:23:49 i don't do gnome/kde 10:23:52 --- join: kaze (Kaze@ca-bordeaux-12-184.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 10:23:55 use *box 10:24:00 i was using fluxbox 10:24:03 or waimea if you want some eyecandy 10:24:04 but the AA makes all the fonts huge 10:24:05 wtf 10:24:07 oh 10:24:10 you can fix that 10:24:14 how? 10:24:14 or turn the AA off 10:24:17 well 10:24:19 i want AA 10:24:21 dunno but i fixed that once 10:24:22 heh 10:24:24 i tried making all the fonts smaller 10:24:28 and that sort of worked 10:24:33 waimea is nice btw 10:24:34 but the titlebars are still pretty big 10:24:46 plus you can't really use pixmap themes for the titlebards 10:24:49 dax: why doesn't your dad like you to use linux? 10:24:51 waimea... 10:25:04 lodda: no he doesn't like it :/ 10:25:12 i mean it was easier to use than windows 10:25:15 does he use your puters? 10:25:22 dax: get Xandros 10:25:24 like once in a week or so 10:25:26 xandros? 10:25:26 wtf 10:25:32 no i don't do bloat sir. 10:25:36 :D 10:25:46 fluxbox/waimea/ion 10:25:49 depending on my mood 10:25:52 uh huh 10:26:05 maybe idesk with some nice large (128x128) icons on the desktop, aqua style 10:26:21 * lodda uses windows, because of his sister and i like to do other things than coding & irc on my puter :-) 10:26:30 *he likes 10:26:46 linux ui latency is slow sometimes, but if you recompile your GUI optimized for your PC ( and i use prelinking as well ), my KDE ( which is normally real slow ) is faster than my win98 is 10:27:03 brb, i'll watch some TV 10:27:08 huntrckr: I must do that... 10:27:09 hmm 10:27:09 hmm yes i always compile x and all with some heavy optimizing 10:27:11 but see 10:27:12 and gcc 3.x 10:27:18 i use debian binaries 10:27:22 --- join: asmodeus (~www@h125n2fls33o867.telia.com) joined #osdev 10:27:25 oh. 10:27:25 which are probably the reason why it's so bad 10:27:37 --- quit: asmodeus (Client Quit) 10:27:46 my guess is they haven't finished their gcc3.2 stuff 10:27:48 and 10:27:51 it's all i386 10:27:56 also, i run with the nvidia drivers, which also makes a big difference :p 10:28:00 try recomping it with some nice optimizing switches... like -O3 -fgsce -march=athlon -fomit-frame-pointer 10:28:20 i use the nvidia drivers 10:28:30 nvidia driver for freebsd is unusable 10:28:30 i have a dual-head setup, it's great 10:28:48 well the thign is 10:28:51 if i start recompiling stuff 10:28:54 --- join: asmodeus (~www@h125n2fls33o867.telia.com) joined #osdev 10:28:56 then i ruin apt 10:28:57 dax: does the omit-frame-pointers switch make a difference... i haven't tried it yet? 10:29:10 scott: get gentoo :) 10:29:14 no way 10:29:16 gentoo is so bad 10:29:21 i can't stand recompiling everything all the time 10:29:23 huntrckr: well dunno if it really makes a performance difference 10:29:25 whenever i want to upgrade 10:29:28 gentoo was good a while ago 10:29:31 --- join: xeon (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 10:29:32 not anymore though 10:29:34 my machine is 600mhz 10:29:36 Hey everyone 10:29:38 compiling stuff is slow 10:29:41 their quality control = shitty 10:29:46 plus last time i used gentoo 10:29:52 i would get like 9/10 done with a compile 10:29:52 dax: they went through a bad patch yes, but its real stable now again 10:29:54 scott: try freebsd, you can add things with packages, or recompile it from ports 10:29:55 and then it would error out 10:30:02 * xeon is trying to figure outhow he's going to implement taskswitching... 10:30:15 huntrckr: at a moment like 75% of their ebuilds didn't work 10:30:34 i did about 5 gentoo installations in the last 3 weeks, no probs 10:30:47 dax: but then if i update world, i'll lose everything (?) 10:30:52 --- nick: minddog -> minddogzz 10:30:54 plus i still have that long compile and witing issue 10:30:57 *waiting 10:31:16 hmm no updating world doesn't lose anything 10:31:25 i mean my optimizations 10:31:30 because it'll recompile packages 10:31:30 no 10:31:33 no? 10:31:41 or i can add that to the global cflags or something? 10:31:44 dax: like i said, i am even running with prelinking on, and that is suppose to be mega unstable, yet i do not have a single problem anymore at the moment 10:31:46 there is a flag in a make.conf file or something 10:31:51 oh 10:31:51 ok 10:31:54 yea, how is prelinking? 10:31:57 've heard so much about it 10:32:00 you can specify the optimiztion flags there 10:32:01 haven't tried it 10:32:03 prelinking? 10:32:16 it's a kind of optimization 10:32:22 scott: really good... KDE startup is down from 20 seconds to 5 :D 10:32:25 i think it lets libraries stay resident in memory 10:32:27 or something 10:32:29 oh wwo 10:32:31 "Prelinking is a technique to reduce the cost of shared libraries in terms of memory usage and startup time. 10:32:31 " 10:32:37 that's pretty significant 10:32:42 god bless google. 10:32:48 20 to 5 10:32:52 jeeze 10:32:56 dax: you've tried gentoo? 10:33:04 yes i ran gentoo for 6-7 months 10:33:15 yeah, but it doesn't want to work on P4 systems for some reason 10:33:16 dax: does this look like the right place to download it from: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/gentoo/releases/1.4_rc2/x86/athlon-xp/livecd/ 10:33:35 xeon: you have an athlon xp? 10:33:48 everyone is so well endowed here 10:33:54 i have a 600mhz p3 10:34:03 xeon: yes, if you have a athlon-xp... also note the rc2... its still a beta version... 10:34:03 i have a 1ghz tbird 10:34:07 dax: yea 10:34:08 scott: same here :) 10:34:10 i can't deal with compile times 10:34:20 i used rc1/rc2 for a few months 10:34:23 if i compile X, i can't use my computer for like a day 10:34:29 xeon: well yea get it then 10:34:42 i have a 400mhz amd k6-2 im going to turn into my os test machine. 10:34:44 scott: initial install, yes 10:34:49 scott: uhm x takes ages, doesn't matter if your pc is fast or not. it will take ages. 10:34:53 dax: what are you running now? 10:35:07 wincrapdoze xpenzivebiatch 10:35:08 but you can recompile your X while X is running, no problems 10:35:10 huntrckr: then all the pacakges get updated so fast 10:35:12 and i want tnew features 10:35:17 oh yea i love my smp system 10:35:19 so then i have to recompile everything 10:35:20 (dual p2 333) 10:35:30 i think my next reg system will be dual too 10:35:32 it feels better 10:35:38 does it really make a difference? 10:35:41 like sex without a condom, it just feels better 10:35:43 heh 10:35:53 but it's dangerous!!!! 10:36:04 scott: why recompile everything.. you just recompile update packages 10:36:13 *updated 10:36:14 huntrckr: but everything is updated 10:36:15 plus 10:36:17 dax: why'd you switch? 10:36:18 i'll set it to go overnight 10:36:20 then it'll fail 10:36:22 file[laptop]: stick to the same partner 10:36:22 on some trivial package 10:36:26 and nothing significant gets upgraded 10:36:29 bah 10:36:30 xeon: feels more responsive 10:36:38 that happened to me like 5 times, and then i gave up 10:36:41 xeon: multitasking is smoother and all 10:37:00 scott: how often do you do update... three times a week, and i never have more than about 5 packages 10:37:12 huntrckr: i had lots of packages 10:37:16 --- join: zwane_ (User-10448@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 10:37:19 kde has a lot of deps 10:37:30 dax: i hate to say it, but it is...poor linux...oh well, torix will blow everything away...now, how did i get that hello world to display again...? 10:37:31 i tried it like.... 10:37:33 once every 2 weeks 10:37:35 :P 10:37:36 <-- currently has nearly 200 packages installed 10:37:59 oh i thoguht you said you had 5 10:38:11 so anyway 10:38:12 xeon: actualy i prefer freebsd 10:38:14 i couldn't do it 3 times a week 10:38:16 no, thats how many get updated... 10:38:28 so the list gets bigger 10:38:53 * huntrckr doesnt understand scott 10:39:02 and it would fail! 10:39:04 fail to update 10:39:20 all those wasted cpu cycles 10:39:25 when you do a emerge update world, only packages that have been updated get recompiled 10:39:31 eya 10:39:34 but a lot of updates! 10:39:55 not if you update regularly 10:40:11 but that's the problem 10:40:11 i don't 10:40:16 and it takes a lot of time to update because of the compiles 10:40:22 so i'd hold off until i could have a free computer for awhile 10:40:28 and then it wouldnt' work 10:40:28 KDE 3.1 is so nice btw... it just looks and feels so much better 10:41:07 average compile time on a update world, unless something major like KDE, gcc, or glibc gets upgraded is like 20 minutes 10:41:42 how fast is your system? 10:41:58 and for me, everytime i upgraded, glibc would need to be recompiled 10:42:01 http://www.gamespyarcade.com/software/webgames/sicktwisted//fivefinger/fivefinger_index.htm <-- fun game 10:42:03 maybe it was just bad luck 10:42:04 P3 600 with 256Mb RAM 10:42:09 but then it also never finished 10:42:12 because of broken packages 10:42:29 actualy i would be perfectly happy with a p3 600mhz, 512mb ram, and a nice quiet seagate 60-80gb disk 10:43:05 i have 300-something megs 10:43:09 and two 80gb disks 10:43:22 i like gentoo cause of the speed it gives my pc... i can compile openoffice, copy files over the network and watch divx movies all at once, no problem 10:43:44 huntrckr: any linux distro can do that, as long as you compile the kernel with lowlat patches 10:44:00 and you don't have to compile openoffice if they have binary packages 10:44:01 winblows doesnt have a hope in hell of doing that... 10:44:13 you don't have to compile things in windows 10:44:18 so that cuts out openoffice 10:44:21 scott: once again, if you compile it, its optimized 10:44:26 the kernel 10:44:27 that's 1 thing 10:44:31 and i only have to compile it once 10:44:37 winblows sucks 10:44:39 and i can watch divx movies and copy files over my network with no problems in windows or linux 10:44:47 yesss 3620 points 10:44:48 why does it suck, you people are so biased against it 10:45:02 linux is not that much better 10:45:10 no, we know of better 10:45:21 no i'm not biased against it 10:45:34 forget it 10:45:36 i'm definetly wasting my time 10:45:37 and i never said linux was better either 10:45:42 i just said windows sucked 10:45:46 whatever 10:45:47 linux sucks too 10:45:50 :D 10:46:00 which is why we are writing oses, isn't it? :D 10:46:28 hehe... you sound like that M$ rep i talked to... like he was trying to tell me WinXP is more secure than linux, cause WinXP only had 24 security advisories 10:46:39 and RedHat linux had 112 10:46:40 winxp isn't that secure 10:46:52 in fact winxp is very insecure 10:46:59 but linux has a very fare share of it's own vulnerabilities 10:47:10 well i'm behind a firewall anyhow 10:47:14 but we're talking about desktop OSes 10:47:16 i thought 10:47:24 so i don't think that's really relevant anyway 10:48:10 fair enough... but linux's vulnerabilities are found out and fixed, M$ exploits are only fixed once there has been an attack against that exploit 10:48:26 but, enuf about win vs. linux 10:48:36 they both suck 10:48:38 it's personal preference anyhow 10:49:27 dax: that and personal patience to try and figure something out before discarding it 10:49:41 hmm yea 10:49:52 although i feel like discarding windoze 10:49:53 :D 10:50:07 it gets on my nerves 10:50:16 i ran windows for 6 years now, all the way from win3.0 to XP... even had a server running at home win Win2K server 10:50:47 i can honestly say i enjoy linux much more :) 10:50:47 hmm i wouldn't run windows on a server though 10:51:19 --- join: geist (~geist@dsl-65-191-44-105.telocity.com) joined #osdev 10:51:29 dax: i had never used anything else before like a year and a half ago 10:51:35 hey geist 10:52:18 hmm currently an uptime of 12 days 10:52:26 decent, nothing to brag about 10:52:30 --- join: TomFritz (~a@100.teknett.com) joined #osdev 10:52:57 my uptime is like 6 hours, uptimes are stupid in general :-) 10:53:04 uptime: 35 days, 12 hours 10:53:06 13:55:16 up 7 days, 1:00, 3 users, load average: 1.07, 1.01, 1.00 10:53:08 ah 10:53:10 you beat me 10:53:14 uptimes aren't stupid for servers lodda :) 10:53:31 why do all the kernels have separate printf's for the kernel and userland? wont they interfere with each other? 10:53:31 yes, but do you run a server? no, you don't 10:53:33 exactly... thats my server uptime 10:53:45 no my server is next to me 10:53:54 disassembled atm 10:54:00 --- part: TomFritz left #osdev 10:54:14 --- quit: zwanem (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:54:24 my normal pc's uptime is like a day or something, cause i regularly reboot to WinXP to play Trainz 10:54:46 doesn't it work under wine? 10:54:51 yawn 10:54:55 hi guys, what's up? 10:54:56 hi geist 10:55:00 nothing much 10:55:03 dax: tried very hard, but cant get it running 10:55:08 hi geist 10:55:13 though i must say, cygwin sucks :d 10:55:21 it works 10:55:25 it's just sloooooow 10:55:31 i always shut down my puter when i go to bed... 10:55:33 well it didn't work this morning 10:57:29 bbl 11:01:19 ok i think i finaly found a nice layout for my website 11:01:41 dax :-) 11:01:58 lemme upload it and show it to you guys 11:04:07 http://home.pi.be/~p4u02228/simple_power/ 11:04:32 hmm i should remove the 2 bars on the bottom 11:04:58 better 11:05:39 nice 11:05:56 oh wow, new vw beetle convertible 11:06:06 OOH 11:07:11 --- join: dh (~dh@213-219-81-249-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 11:07:40 blah my isp doesn't do php 11:07:42 sucks actualy 11:07:54 geist: woah 11:08:10 geist: your a mind reader, i wanted to ask you a question :P 11:08:24 your bootloader is the segmented model isnt it? 11:08:25 hi xeon 11:08:26 hehe the beetle looks cute 11:08:37 xeon: what do you mean? that doesn't make any sense 11:09:00 geist: it uses segments right? its not flat model? 11:09:18 the bootloader or the os? 11:09:24 the bootloader 11:09:56 I assume you're referring to the portion of the bootloader that pulls stuff from the floppy into memory 11:10:10 in that case, it's segmented, but that's because you *have* to when you're in real mode 11:10:17 the beginning section actially 11:10:21 as soon as I switch into protected, it's flat from then on out 11:10:32 which the rest of the bootloader works in 11:10:33 i thought you could use flat real mode? thats what im doing i think... 11:10:52 well, okay now I see where you're going 11:10:57 I didn't want to confuse you 11:11:04 oh 11:11:04 yes, the initial floppy loader uses unreal 11:11:31 unreal mode, which is a well known hack that lets you touch all of memory in a flat mode from within real mode 11:11:39 ok. one last question, how do you do a mov eax,cr0 when your still in real mode? :/ 11:11:39 so yeah, in that case it's flat mode all the way 11:11:50 you just do 11:11:56 (i just read 100 pages out of my asm book last night and know segments and stuff now...) 11:12:26 you can get to 32-bit registers in real mode, the assembler will emit a size override prefix byte 11:13:42 i see... 11:14:03 when you dword 0x8:unreal32 what is the 0x8 there fore? is that the segment? 11:14:12 yes 11:14:17 oh the code selector 11:14:25 i think... 11:14:36 the new one, from the new gdt 11:16:05 coool 11:16:48 does jmp 0x7c0:unreal-0x7c00 go to the code selector->unreal label minus where the bootloader is loaded...? 11:17:07 right 11:19:14 wouldnt that take you into deep bios memory? 11:19:36 not sure what you mean? 11:19:37 no 11:19:45 the answer is probably no 11:20:50 to me that looks like you have a code selector and you jump to it at the unreal offset minus where the bootloader was loaded. 11:21:24 that's right 11:21:50 oh, does org start the code at the specified address? 11:22:11 or the entire program? 11:22:18 no, the bios loads your code at 0x7c00, cs set to 0x7c0 11:22:37 org tells the compiler to generate code based off it being loaded at 0x7c00 11:23:16 whats magical about 0x7c0? 11:23:35 that's where the bootloader puts you 11:23:47 for historical reasons 11:24:16 0x7c0 and 0x7c00 are different arent they? 11:24:28 you must not understand 16-bit selectors 11:24:54 i thought i did :/ 11:26:26 oh even better my isp doesn't support cgi or ssi anymore 11:26:28 assholes 11:26:38 --- quit: sayke ("warg") 11:30:21 --- quit: lodda ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 11:33:30 xeon: any more questions? 11:34:54 well... 11:34:56 no 11:35:02 good 11:35:20 i guess i need to read more and understand 16-bit selectors first. 11:35:44 you *do* now know how 16-bit segment selectors work? 11:35:44 oh heh, I figured you spent the last 10 minutes learning that 11:35:44 it's easy 11:36:20 take the selector value, shift to the left by 4 bits (one hex character), add the address you're referencing to it 11:36:37 so, if your selector is 0x7c0, and your address is 5 11:36:37 then the result is 11:36:54 (0x7c0 << 4) + 5 == 0x7c00 + 5 11:37:29 see how with that you can reference up to 1MB memory? 11:37:38 (actually almost 64k past 1MB) 11:37:54 the biggest selector you can have is 0xffff 11:38:11 what do you mean addresS? 11:38:14 so the biggest address you can create is 0xffff << 4 + 0xffff 11:38:24 are we looking for a word or something doing this? 11:38:24 address the code generates 11:38:47 in the case of this bootloader, the code acts like it's working at base 0 11:39:01 but since the code selector is set to 0x7c0, it's addresses get added to 0x7c00 11:40:14 well, actually that's not correct 11:40:25 it seems that the bios sets the 16-bit code selector to 0 before hitting your code 11:40:44 so the org 0x7c00 means the assembler will treat the code as if it was located there 11:42:18 why dont you load fs and gs when your switching into unreal mode? 11:42:33 it's not used 11:42:39 fs and gs are rarely used 11:42:48 fs/gs? 11:43:25 and they do get reloaded later down the road when it switches into protected mode 11:43:29 --- quit: nullify ("Client Exiting") 11:43:53 oh...does es ever get used either? 11:44:03 maybe,I dont know 11:44:08 load it if you want 11:44:22 nah, ill just do it later in pmode... 11:44:42 I think some x86 instructions implicitly use the other selectors 11:44:55 but I'm by no means an expert of x86 asm 11:45:09 ok so your xor ax, ax and loading into ds and ss are to load the null descriptor...why? 11:45:33 so that I can get back into 16-bit mode 11:45:48 otherwise it'd still have the protected modem segments loaded 11:45:54 er mode even 11:48:23 protected modem segments? *ggg* 11:48:42 heh, do too much stuff at work with radios and modems 11:52:19 xeon there are a number of tutorials about this available 11:52:28 Dr_Evil: where? 11:52:51 the internet 11:52:52 --- quit: file[laptop] (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:52:53 Google 11:53:03 you are probably the 100th million person to learn this 11:53:43 about 1020 hits for bootsector tutorial at Google 11:56:15 example http://blacksun.box.sk/tutorials.php?id=85 11:58:13 --- join: kreep (~kreep@mkc-65-28-15-71.kc.rr.com) joined #osdev 12:00:18 moo 12:03:30 moooo moooooooo 12:04:56 ... 12:05:38 Smørrebrød 12:05:39 Smørrebrød 12:05:57 lol. 12:06:00 WHEE. 12:06:05 Schmorbraten? 12:06:47 hello hello hello 12:07:01 lah lah laaah lah lah 12:07:21 hmm... a bit tired of daxos mb 12:07:51 yeah, I'm kind of tired of newos sometimes too 12:07:56 been working on it for 2 years now 12:08:13 i need some other project to keep me busy when i'm tired of it 12:08:17 daxos feels pretty useless 12:08:17 --- join: cuebol (Cue@adsl-64-164-114-59.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 12:08:23 i just want to make something a bit more useful 12:08:29 such a nice day 12:08:35 Had to go for a drive 12:11:53 cuebol: where are you located? 12:13:35 Hollister,CA 12:13:37 du? 12:14:23 Kansas City, hehe It is not a nice day here.. coooold :-) 12:14:24 --- join: file[laptop] (lan@mctn1-0021.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 12:15:35 --- join: lodda (~htjonhigf@p508FD975.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 12:16:32 back 12:16:39 wb 12:16:42 i hate daxos 12:16:54 heh 12:16:56 why? 12:16:57 --- nick: zwane_ -> zwane 12:17:10 hrm, my sun box died last nite, just crashed 12:17:14 I wonder why? 12:17:18 :-( 12:17:25 it does that occasionally, one of the reasons I dont use it as a server anymore 12:17:27 poor irc mans 12:17:51 evilness 12:17:59 my download stalled... oh there it goes 12:18:30 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 12:21:55 * lodda is bored 12:22:28 on TV there is mission impossible & Wild Wild West :-( 12:23:16 haha 12:23:26 what channels? 12:23:55 germany... 12:24:05 RTL and Pro7 :-) 12:24:13 uh huh 12:24:33 you love that expression, right? "uh huh" :-) 12:24:58 uh huh 12:25:21 uh huh 12:25:46 there is also Sleepy Hollow on Sat1 12:26:20 Dr_Evil: i don't watch Sat1 :-) 12:26:31 uh huh 12:26:36 *g* 12:26:48 yep 12:27:26 --- quit: kaze ("Leaving") 12:28:33 I watch HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Showtime, and TMC 12:29:47 --- join: sayke (~abuse@sttldslgw29poolC30.sttl.uswest.net) joined #osdev 12:29:50 where can i find a "complete" table of values, which CPUID returns(AMD,Intel)? except google :-) 12:32:16 at developer.intel.com and amd.com ??? 12:33:05 i thought of a table where are both included *g* i'm searching on my own... 12:34:47 --- nick: huntrckr -> huntrckr_zzzz 12:35:04 night huntrckr 12:38:01 mmm 12:38:10 I must restart my laptop 12:38:11 bbl 12:39:40 i want a laptop :/ 12:40:09 dax: get a cheap one 12:40:12 --- quit: file[laptop] (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:40:20 witten: bah... 12:40:28 mine was cheap, and it's plenty beefy 12:40:30 cheap what? 12:40:32 how cheap? 12:40:36 $750 12:40:55 eek 12:41:11 hrm 12:41:16 what cheap thing? 12:41:22 lodda: laptop 12:41:30 ah 12:41:59 $750 :( 12:42:47 it's better than $2500 12:43:27 uhm yea but isn't cheap yet 12:43:45 Man 12:43:59 I got a 300mhz IBM Think Pad for $200 12:44:06 there you go 12:44:08 $200 12:44:09 that's not bad 12:44:21 no that isn't bad 12:44:35 my uncle's company was getting rid of some old equipment 12:44:40 and i took a 266mhz laptop 12:44:42 and i use that 12:44:44 tis' pretty good 12:44:59 i think the hard drive is about to fail though... 12:45:09 I got it from my unemployed neighbor 12:45:19 where'd he get? 12:45:25 or was he "liquidating his assets" 12:45:26 hmm why do i want a laptop even 12:45:35 guess that i could code sitting downstairs then :D 12:45:46 we have a wireless network and it's pretty cool 12:46:10 plus when i do band practice at the drummer's house, he has one too, so i can surf the net while the rest of the band argues 12:46:13 hmm i do'nt need a wireless network, or atleast not for my pcs 12:46:22 wireless == good 12:46:22 cause they are in a rack anyhow 12:46:34 wireless would be nice if i had a laptop 12:46:34 that's where the real usability of a laptop comes into play 12:46:53 wtf my dad's company makes wireless stuff and i have to live with cat5? 12:46:58 and my new powerbook has a really good antenna 12:47:05 powerbook? :| 12:47:17 well the downside to wireless is it's relatively slow 12:47:18 17 or 12 ? 12:47:22 12 12:47:25 well 52mbps or so? 12:47:32 or still the 11? 12:47:42 11, but even with that you dont get near that 12:47:53 I've never seen more than about 300KB 12:47:58 eek 12:48:04 I think 11 and 54 are raw bandwidth 12:48:16 and the signalling overhead and crypto slow it down 12:48:36 that's not that big of a deal since it's faster than my dsl, but if you want to move a lot of data between boxes on the same network 12:48:51 300KB is slower than my dsl :( 12:48:56 but it has a 100mbit ethernet port on it, so I just plug into that when I need to move things faster 12:49:09 oh, your dsl is that fast? what's the speed? 12:49:14 3.1-3.3mbps 12:49:22 wow, that's nice 12:49:27 hmm yea :) 12:49:38 I think you can get a bit faster, but that's what it averages here 12:49:41 all dsl you can get around here is 3mbps 12:49:44 mine is just 768kbit/s down and 128 kbit/s up :-((( 12:49:53 id on't use the crypto 12:49:56 * lodda thinks he moves to belgian 12:49:56 it's a waste 12:49:58 sicne it's insecure 12:50:07 oh you kids want the price too? 12:50:11 that's dumb 12:50:13 39,49 euro/month 12:50:19 i not using the crypto? 12:50:22 of course someone could hack it if they knew what they were doing 12:50:25 dax: ... 12:50:28 for a 3mbps/192kbps line 12:50:29 but it keeps the dudes next door from using it 12:50:32 i just use MAC authentication 12:50:40 oh MAC authentication 12:50:43 this way, no crypto overhead, and it's more secure 12:50:44 52 euro if you want 4 ips with that 12:50:46 that's pretty good then, though you can hack it 12:50:50 true 12:50:57 but it's much more difficult then through WEP 12:50:59 static IPs? 12:51:02 you can see what MAC addresses are transmitting and set yours to that 12:51:11 no dynamic 12:51:13 i think 12:51:17 yea dynamic 12:51:19 basically just knowing that airsnort doesn't do it automatically keeps me at ease 12:51:31 static is a bit more expensive 12:51:35 anyway, I've thought of just unencrypting mine, I dont have anything behind the wireless that I'm worried about 12:51:49 it's me surfing the net and checking my e-mail 12:51:52 and talking to friends 12:52:03 if they got my e-mail password, it's just spam anyway 12:52:15 if i really cared i would get a VPN 12:52:45 and with the MAC, joe neighboor isn't goign to accidentally use my connection 12:52:48 155 euro if you want a static ip 12:54:02 i think 12:54:03 dunno 12:54:44 Did any of you ever use Ketman's tools 12:55:45 hmm laptop would be nice... 12:55:51 Smørrebrød, Smørrebrød, røm-pøm-pøm-pøm... 12:57:43 http://www.madge.com/products/products-95-31.asp 12:59:29 anyone in here has a nice old laptop they want to dump? 12:59:53 there's an ancient mac laptop at my mom's place 12:59:58 but I don't think it runs any sort of unix 12:59:59 how ancient? 13:00:05 very 13:00:17 i'm sure you could run some kind of 680k linux derivitive 13:00:29 brb 13:00:37 scott: I don't think the model is supported 13:00:54 do you know exactly what kind of laptop it is? 13:01:02 not off the top of my head 13:01:05 witten: shipping would be expensive i think 13:01:05 hm 13:01:11 witten: screensize? 13:01:30 I just remember reading that linux didn't work on it, and that often it had problems with the power connector in the back having issues 13:01:35 dax: tiny 13:01:42 hm 13:01:44 a shame 13:02:06 i have a few really old laptops 13:02:16 like a compaq 486 13:02:18 use 'em for routers :) 13:02:27 originally they were my servers 13:02:35 i used one for http/ftp/ssh 13:02:37 i ahd another for irc 13:03:00 then after i get fed up with all the memory problems i just some 200mhz box i ue 13:03:10 well 13:03:13 thats that 13:03:18 im not using my bootloader anymore 13:03:22 im just going to use GRUB 13:03:33 grub is cool as long as you can figure out multiboot 13:03:40 im tired of messing with it, and untill i learn more asm its worthless 13:03:49 i remember having problems with the linker script or something 13:04:03 ive spent *TOO* much time on it, when i could have had task switching done by now 13:04:08 heh 13:04:30 90% of my time as been spent trying to get the freaking thing to load over 1mb, and i just dont have the skills to do it. 13:04:56 that sounds frustrating 13:05:26 try disappointing and unencouraging... 13:06:56 --- join: n0vice (~n0vice@pcp02102499pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net) joined #osdev 13:07:06 --- join: witten_ (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 13:07:16 --- quit: witten ("bye") 13:07:25 --- nick: witten_ -> witten 13:09:15 oh great 13:09:19 now it doesnt work anymore... 13:10:00 that sucks 13:10:00 xeon: Walk away for a while and come back when you're cool 13:17:39 hrm 13:17:42 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 13:17:50 i guess the mutliboot magic cant be in the .data section... 13:18:21 make a special section for it and put that one at the start of the file using a linker script 13:18:23 works for me 13:20:12 hrm 13:20:16 what do you name it? 13:21:32 .mbheader 13:22:05 hrm, in the linker script tdo you just do 13:22:08 .mkheader : 13:22:13 mbheader : 13:22:15 { 13:22:30 mbheader = .; 13:22:38 *(.mbheader); 13:22:45 . = ALIGN(4096); 13:22:45 } 13:23:05 uhm no 13:23:08 put it in text 13:23:19 __text_start = .; 13:23:19 .text . : AT (ADDR(.text) - KERNEL_OFFSET) 13:23:19 { 13:23:19 *(.mb_header) 13:23:19 13:23:20 *(.text) 13:23:22 *(.gnu.linkonce.t.*) 13:23:24 } 13:23:26 __text_end = .; 13:23:31 (that's a part of my linker script) 13:23:49 whats the linkonce for? 13:24:02 inline functions 13:24:14 i think 13:24:17 --- join: file (jwired@mctn1-1339.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 13:24:22 i need it, i'm sure of that 13:24:48 whats kernel_offset? 13:25:11 KERNEL_OFFSET = 0xF0000000; 13:25:17 the address the kernel is located at 13:25:30 ah 13:26:27 --- quit: n0vice ("I like core dumps") 13:28:50 --- join: jsr (www@du-12-97.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 13:30:26 --- join: z3r0_one (~z3r0_one@lsanca1-ar16-4-46-050-138.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 13:35:51 --- join: TomFritz (~a@100.teknett.com) joined #osdev 13:36:04 --- quit: TomFritz (Client Quit) 13:42:32 --- quit: wl ("quit") 13:44:21 mine's at 0x10000 13:44:24 for some reason 13:46:48 how do you set where the stack is? 13:47:07 mov esp to a register 13:47:26 geist? 13:47:35 I don't think I every explictly put the stack anywhere 13:47:37 mov esp, stack_location 13:47:39 s/every/ever/ 13:47:46 --- join: trace (~nude@148-BARC-X47.libre.retevision.es) joined #osdev 13:47:51 hi nude 13:47:52 --- quit: jsr (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:48:00 movl stack_location, %esp mb 13:48:10 stack grows down on x86, right? 13:48:17 dax: boo! AT&T 13:48:21 yes, as does pretty much everywhere else 13:48:22 yup 13:48:26 at&t > intel. 13:48:36 ermph 13:48:39 I require assistance 13:48:44 yes, bloats the source 13:48:45 geist: how are you with understanding PPPoE? 13:48:45 medical? 13:48:51 +l, +% 13:49:13 but with intel you sometimes have to insert "byte" or "offset" or whatever 13:49:19 hrm 13:49:21 yes.. 13:49:26 file: zero knowledge of pppoe 13:49:27 but no % $=&(="%&§( 13:49:35 and movl isn't required, you can do make it mov 13:50:07 I prefer movl, since it's more explicit 13:50:11 file: do you want to know about the protocol, read the RFC :-) 13:50:19 there's nothing wrong witih being more explicit IMO 13:50:27 how do you prevent the stack from growing too large and overwriting something? 13:50:37 witten: you dont 13:50:42 --- quit: file (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:50:45 normally shouldn't grow too large 13:50:54 it's a failure case. in the case of a user space app, it'll probably crash 13:50:56 since it'll be popped normally 13:51:00 and then you can kill the app. 13:51:06 in the case of a kernel, it's death 13:51:16 if the stack is located at the very bottom of memory, will it wrap around to the top? 13:51:19 yay..nested interrupts :-) 13:51:23 (fe) 13:51:31 you can do tricks with the mmu to put empty pages off the end of a stack 13:51:41 oh ok 13:51:42 cool 13:51:51 but that is to just detect an overrun 13:51:54 it's still death to a kernel 13:52:05 and normally the kernel has very small stacks. 8k in newos 13:52:36 mine's 30k 13:52:46 beginning at 0x7BFF 13:52:55 well, when you get a ton of threads, you'll have to make it smaller 13:53:02 because that'd burn a ton of memory 13:53:04 mine begins somewhere around 0x10000, but the weird thing is I never explicitly set it there 13:53:10 and I can't figure out what code puts it there 13:53:15 hrm 13:53:21 assuming you do one kernel stack per thread of course 13:53:26 but it works just fine 13:53:30 but it's very very hard to do otherwise on x86 at least 13:53:41 witten: well, set it yourself, then you know 13:53:59 well, test it on a lot of hardware, then you'll see if it works fine everywhere 13:54:14 that's a very poor way of doing it 13:54:15 geist: yah 13:54:23 I know, I just noticed 13:54:46 --- join: file (jwired@mctn1-0659.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 13:54:47 argh 13:55:19 well, if it crashs somewhere he knows he has to do it on his own :-) if not he can be lucky, cause he hasn't to care about a stack :-) 13:55:29 --- quit: trace (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:57:19 hehe 13:57:54 whats .eh_frame? 13:58:32 --- join: kemu_ (~kemu@5.122-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 13:58:42 sounds like exception handlers...are you using c++? 13:58:45 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-119.ts.indy.net) joined #osdev 14:01:11 no 14:01:18 not yet t least 14:01:24 i will be when i get further along. 14:01:49 dammit 14:01:51 so close... 14:01:59 good night 14:02:01 * file is attempting to get PPPoE over wireless using bridging to work 14:03:19 SO CLOSE!!!!!!! 14:03:27 --- quit: lodda ("i say quit! tada! ;-)") 14:05:39 --- join: kemu__ (~kemu@5.122-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 14:06:09 I tried moving my kernel from 0x10000 to 0x2000 and now it doesn't boot 14:06:10 hmm 14:07:40 oh, duh. it's probably overwriting the bootloader in memory before the bootloader jumps to the kernel 14:08:31 --- quit: kemu_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:09:24 --- quit: kemu (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:10:55 in theory - this should work 14:13:30 --- nick: kemu__ -> kemu 14:19:45 --- join: nullify (~nullify@pool-138-89-45-168.mad.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 14:20:17 --- quit: xeon (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:23:49 --- join: lld (Cue@adsl-64-164-114-59.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 14:25:01 --- quit: cuebol () 14:25:06 --- nick: lld -> cuebol 14:30:14 --- join: xeon (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 14:30:44 * xeon wonders if anyohne in here is reverse engineering the ACX100... 14:32:27 --- join: dh_ (~dh@80-235-49-122-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 14:40:10 what the hell is a ACX100 14:40:33 geist: It was after the acx99 14:42:35 hehe 14:46:06 --- quit: dh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:55:11 --- quit: witten ("bye") 14:56:13 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 15:00:12 --- join: air (qz@bespin.org) joined #osdev 15:00:24 anyone know what WINS resolution is? 15:01:01 it's a seperate name resolution service that MS networking used for a long time 15:01:19 it's sort of deprecated I think in favor of active directory which integrates with DNS 15:01:27 or something like that 15:05:28 k 15:05:49 --- quit: air ("CRIA 0.2.8 -- http://cria.sf.net") 15:14:42 geist: a chipset 15:22:05 *sigh* 15:24:52 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 15:46:05 --- join: air (qz@bespin.org) joined #osdev 15:46:43 --- join: xeon` (~ask@cs666823-113.austin.rr.com) joined #osdev 15:46:49 xeon!!! 15:49:06 --- join: Boney (179a1c8308@dsl-203-113-196-89.VIC.netspace.net.au) joined #osdev 15:52:14 --- join: n0vice (~n0vice@pcp02102499pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net) joined #osdev 15:54:38 --- quit: xeon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:54:38 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:56:56 --- quit: air ("CRIA 0.2.8 -- http://cria.sf.net") 15:57:08 --- quit: n0vice (Client Quit) 15:59:10 arrrg 16:07:26 --- nick: xeon` -> Xeon 16:07:29 RTL8139... B!!!!!! 16:07:33 Bgjklsdha 16:07:40 mehhhh 16:07:41 fsdhf 16:07:43 file : wut? 16:07:47 kjsdk/. 16:07:54 Realtek Chipset 16:07:57 file : b has powersaving stuff and auto negotion 16:08:09 yeah i wrote a driver for it :P 16:08:20 hehe 16:08:29 what about wake on lan? 16:08:45 dunno 16:08:52 uhrm 16:09:09 what do you want to do witzh it? 16:09:14 nothing LOL 16:09:22 I just use it for my regular NIC... thought I'd say something 16:09:25 pff :P 16:09:28 and RTL8139B came to mind :p 16:09:40 ye 16:09:50 hmm, that was a waste of time 16:10:09 geistibeisti! 16:10:45 ... 16:11:02 lodsb: one word: no. 16:11:33 back in a sec 16:11:34 --- quit: geist ("outta here") 16:11:43 but i had already sexual contact with him :( 16:12:55 --- join: geist (~geist@tkgeisel.com) joined #osdev 16:13:03 who had sex with who now? 16:13:26 geist: you've had sexual relations with lodsb? 16:13:52 xeon : bish 16:14:09 hrm 16:14:13 eks is still in mexico 16:14:22 who have I had sex with! SOMEBODY TELL ME! 16:14:24 Was I drugged? 16:14:33 lodsb: bish? 16:14:42 oh no! the iq level of the channel has dropped 16:14:45 bitch 16:14:49 who let the kids in? 16:14:58 Did you all take your retarded pills this morning? 16:15:09 * lodsb frowns 16:15:09 Access to brain has been restricted. 16:15:25 * geist heads over to a coffee shop 16:15:36 geist: take your hiptop and come on from there 16:18:10 --- quit: Boney (Remote closed the connection) 16:18:31 meehhhh 16:18:39 file: how are you? 16:18:54 fine fine 16:18:57 going to be out some money this week 16:19:06 finally going to send the payment for my 2 mobos and CPU 16:19:18 aye 16:19:26 i gotta pay 150e for my box, still :P 16:20:07 cool, at coffe shop 16:20:19 unencrypted wifi, everyone here has laptops 16:20:44 free of chrge? 16:20:55 yeah 16:21:03 nice 16:23:28 --- join: Boney (60602ead88@dsl-203-113-196-89.VIC.netspace.net.au) joined #osdev 16:25:44 i want a free wifi laptop 16:25:49 someone give me one 16:26:00 mmm 16:27:01 --- join: trans (vxilmp@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 16:29:18 i have one 16:29:57 so 16:29:58 give me it 16:30:02 or i might flatline 16:30:24 --- join: air (qz@bespin.org) joined #osdev 16:30:29 ugh 16:30:50 elm wont send my email cuz the body contains text it dont like 16:31:07 [0x000ffff0] f000:fff0 (unk. ctxt): jmp f000:e05b ; ea5be000f0 16:31:17 demand a refund 16:31:28 says bad keyword on that line 16:31:28 free software owes you 5 minutes 16:31:44 AIR!!!!!!!!! 16:32:21 hmm, guess u can start lines with [ 16:32:35 xeon!!! 16:33:47 anyone know how to make bash prompt for an answer? 16:34:20 without using something like dialog 16:35:08 like input? 16:36:10 i need to make the bfe configure script ask the user if he correctly configure bochs 16:36:59 just in case they missed it on the download page :) 16:37:42 haha 16:37:49 one second 16:39:23 read VARIABLE 16:51:36 ArG! 16:51:38 yea 16:52:01 i just found it and came back and you had already found it... 16:56:22 Xeon: wanna submit a bug for bochs? 16:58:38 tell em they shouldnt add the CVS dirs to the tarball and if they must then they shouldnt copy the keymaps/CVS/ dir when installing the keymaps/ dir :) 17:00:08 ... 17:00:08 --- quit: trans (Operation timed out) 17:00:32 bochs? 17:01:05 my tarball doesnt have the cvs dirs.. 17:01:38 hmm 17:01:58 how old i yer tarball? 17:02:28 i have 2.0, 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 17:02:35 nite 17:02:42 --- nick: lodsb -> lynzZZzz 17:02:45 2.0.2 17:03:25 is it the plain tarball or some rpm/deb source package? 17:04:40 plain tarball 17:04:47 oh 17:04:51 yea 17:05:00 it does have it, didnt see it i guess 17:06:13 heh 17:07:27 --- join: icez (unity@ACACA8B5.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 17:09:20 bbl 17:09:23 --- quit: air ("CRIA 0.2.8 -- http://cria.sf.net") 17:17:06 --- join: dax_ (~dax@u212-239-163-85.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 17:27:20 woohoo 17:34:56 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:38:14 --- quit: cuebol () 17:40:12 --- quit: z3r0_one ("Vision[0.9.6-0106]: i've been blurred!") 17:42:49 wheres the posix standard? 17:55:35 the web 18:08:21 --- quit: Aardappel ("http://wouter.fov120.com/") 18:17:55 --- quit: icez ("elementary, my dear watson.") 18:33:15 --- join: elu1d (~nig@cvx01-by-2-127.by.anc.net) joined #osdev 18:34:00 --- part: elu1d left #osdev 18:35:35 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by fear") 18:39:28 --- join: trans (okewsp@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 18:43:24 hello 18:44:22 hello 18:44:49 hello hello 18:45:47 hi xeon and kreep 18:45:50 what's up? 18:49:12 --- join: cuebol (Cue@adsl-64-164-114-59.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 18:50:13 --- join: Tom|Away (~a@77.teknett.com) joined #osdev 18:50:22 hello xeon 18:50:27 --- nick: Tom|Away -> TomFritz 18:50:56 hey, it's tom 18:51:15 and? 18:51:40 tom's here 18:51:47 so? 18:51:56 hey man, dont short sell yourself 18:51:59 you're tom! 18:52:05 ROFL 18:52:06 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 18:52:07 I still don't get it... 18:52:10 I'm just Tom 18:52:17 no, that's where you're wrong 18:52:23 you're TomFritz 18:52:33 Okay...I think.... 18:52:41 lol 18:52:51 I'm not special ;) 18:54:23 * trans wonder's who tom is? 18:54:49 I made FritzOS...thats possibly the only way to identify me 18:54:53 He's tom 18:54:56 ah yeah i remember you ;) 18:54:57 ah 18:54:58 ROFL 18:55:03 Why must you label everyone!?! 18:55:07 hello nulllify.... 18:55:23 are you the person who posts on mega-tokyo.com with the nick of nullify? 18:56:02 nod 18:56:15 oh ok that nick seemed familer... 18:56:24 yeah that's me 18:56:26 what is mega-tokyo? i always see ads for it but it looks like just a comic 18:56:50 http://www.mega-tokyo.com/forum/index.php?board=1 18:56:54 go there and see! 18:58:10 so its a public message board too? 18:58:13 whatesele? 18:58:24 heres more: 18:58:27 http://www.mega-tokyo.com/forum/index.php 18:58:41 --- quit: TomFritz (":TomFritz was using::(qIRC:2.1):: :by::(bLaCK") 19:00:45 Hey... 19:02:12 yes? 19:02:39 ummmm.... how do you boot? 19:04:25 --- quit: nullify ("Client Exiting") 19:05:53 i put a kernel on a disk (elf) and grub said unrecognived file type 19:06:11 root (fd0) and kernel /kernel 19:06:44 it has to be multiboot 19:06:48 for grub to recognize it 19:07:05 ? 19:07:12 ok well 19:07:25 grub doesn't boot a kernel... unless it complies to the multiboot standard 19:07:31 look it up 19:07:40 thats gay 19:07:49 if i was gay, i would take offense to that 19:08:01 i mean gay as in stupid 19:08:05 so say stupid 19:08:16 trans: so you think gays are stupid? 19:08:19 * kreep giggles 19:08:27 only ones named kreep! 19:08:29 i don't see why its so offensive 19:08:34 i'm bi myself 19:08:49 *shrug* lesbian girl in my english class takes offense to it 19:08:58 hahahah 19:08:59 witten: uh ... good one 19:09:13 tell her to suck it, and then beg 19:09:14 =) 19:09:22 ... 19:09:24 right.... 19:09:30 hahaha 19:09:32 sorry 19:12:00 so haw do you get the multiboot header in? 19:12:06 a large shoehorn 19:12:07 Hey if kreep wants to be a P.C. Thug then let em! 19:12:21 i would get it in slowly 19:12:24 with a linker script 19:12:26 and elbow grease 19:12:34 but you really only need a link script 19:12:49 or maybe you need to link something in 19:12:50 i forget 19:13:07 curses 19:13:20 i didn't do this part of the OS i work on 19:13:29 --- join: zephir (~zephir@hill-b-244.resnet.purdue.edu) joined #osdev 19:13:34 * kreep wasn't being P.C. he was just playing the devil's advocate 19:13:39 cuebol !!! 19:13:56 Me! 19:14:08 witten! hey dude 19:14:29 hey zephir! 19:14:40 what's up? 19:14:58 not much dude 19:15:04 0 % coded in crix :) 19:15:08 lost the code for a little bit 19:15:16 hows single address space os coming? 19:15:17 crix? 19:15:20 yep 19:15:25 it's coming along slowly 19:15:32 so you are sticking up for it? 19:15:38 yeah, working on it right now 19:15:43 ah 19:15:44 cool 19:15:58 its sad that our opinions varied a little :( 19:16:05 on what? 19:16:55 SA 19:16:58 unlike mine 19:17:10 remind me of your approach again.. 19:17:12 witten: Development Team Bondage Games 19:17:23 cuebol: eh? 19:17:51 its sad that our opinions varied a little :( on what? 19:18:02 cuebol: :) 19:18:16 witten: non single address space os 19:18:17 heh 19:18:26 zephir: oh, right :) 19:18:31 hehe 19:18:42 well, to each his own :) 19:18:50 you know you are always welcome to join my project if you change your mind ;) 19:18:57 yes, indeed. 19:19:26 --- join: file[laptop] (lan@mctn1-3617.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 19:19:42 file! 19:19:53 wli! 19:19:59 where's eks? 19:19:59 zephir: and you're welcome to join my project when you change your mind :) 19:20:00 hi 19:20:04 what? 19:20:07 witten :) 19:20:10 how have you been 19:20:27 who? 19:20:29 traffic lights? 19:20:32 both 19:23:04 witten: arent you doing torison? 19:23:53 Xeon: yah, why? 19:24:17 witten: its going to be single address space? 19:24:43 Xeon: it is single address space 19:24:53 and will continue to be so :) 19:25:23 ok... 19:25:35 * Xeon loos for what single address space means on google... 19:26:59 it means each process doesn't have its own separate address space.. they all share a common one 19:27:45 whats the use of that? 19:27:51 for great justice 19:27:58 ... 19:27:58 gahahaha 19:28:23 geist: Zero Wing has an always will sux0r 19:28:23 geist: haha 19:28:56 fire 19:29:07 single address space means each process can set up the other processes the bomb 19:29:18 gaahaha 19:29:30 zero wing references oh no 19:29:42 but it's easier to take off every zig, less messaging overhead 19:29:42 but compiler checks so that you dont have malicious code 19:29:43 file? 19:29:57 file: file[laptop]? 19:30:34 yes? 19:31:00 just checking 19:32:46 are you sure? 19:34:33 type checking not permitted 19:35:45 curse you 19:36:25 hehe 19:36:29 --- quit: zwane (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:37:32 alright i compiled my kernel with a link script from osd which works with grub yet it doesn't work 19:38:00 trans: you are fudged 19:38:11 yup 19:42:17 --- join: zwane (User-10448@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 19:42:51 --- nick: geist -> geist-out 19:46:04 * witten is back 19:46:06 false alarm 19:47:09 we had a false alarm at 3 am! that fucker 19:47:22 haha 19:47:36 fire alarm? 19:48:35 yah 19:49:13 ye 19:49:17 some stupid drunk 19:49:25 suxed the next day during classes :( 19:49:27 at least I remembered to put my beer in the fridge on the way out 19:49:43 --- quit: Xeon () 19:50:04 mmm beer 19:50:11 :) 19:50:22 hehe 19:58:36 --- join: york (~root@nwkea-http-2.sun.com) joined #osdev 20:02:25 --- quit: Zenton ("Client Exiting") 20:02:33 --- quit: Mathis ("Shutdown sequence initiated...") 20:09:44 --- quit: kreep (Remote closed the connection) 20:10:49 --- quit: cuebol () 20:17:14 --- quit: HeavyJoost (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:21:38 --- quit: zwane (Remote closed the connection) 20:23:15 --- join: zwane (User-10448@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 20:45:26 --- nick: geist-out -> geist 20:54:43 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:16:50 --- nick: zephir -> zephir|sleep 21:27:05 --- join: air (qz@bespin.org) joined #osdev 21:27:16 http://ling.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/zot.html 21:27:30 and u thought brainfuck was bad 21:28:56 brainfuck is stupid 21:29:04 it's just inane unreadable syntax 21:29:12 Get something conceptually difficult. 21:29:17 wli: did u look at zot? 21:30:35 looks like S/K stuff, mostly tedious 21:31:08 I used to use jot 21:31:15 this doesn't look like it though 21:31:38 its related to jot 21:32:34 the jot I remember what APL's iota operator, it mostly rotated rows and columns in tabular text. 21:32:46 er 21:33:00 was APL's iota operator done as a standalone program in C 21:34:03 --- quit: Boney ("Installing hdd") 21:36:29 --- quit: huntrckr_zzzz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:42:04 --- join: Boney (552e500dc4@dsl-203-113-196-89.VIC.netspace.net.au) joined #osdev 21:42:55 --- join: kreep (~kreep@mkc-65-28-15-71.kc.rr.com) joined #osdev 21:58:12 --- join: redblue (star@ppp083.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 22:00:10 --- quit: air ("Client killed by user") 22:17:14 --- quit: york ("Client Exiting") 22:18:39 --- join: cuebol (~whome@dialup-67.28.84.48.Dial1.Sacramento1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 22:18:49 --- join: york (~root@nwkea-http-2.sun.com) joined #osdev 22:21:48 hrmm 22:23:20 --- join: trans (xrjuqc@fatwire-201-176.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 22:23:33 Seems like every asm tutorial I look at spits out the 16-bit registers, a few opcodes and expects you to have a 'good grasp' of thr most evil language man has ever created, next to Latin. 22:24:50 hehehe 22:25:46 mehhh 22:25:54 I learned more reading the NASM manual which I will be printing as soon as I download the 13mb Windows driver at a blistering 2.3kb/s 22:28:13 I like my quote on the #osdev stats page.. I'd like to be added to the regulars list too :P 22:31:08 I'm angry... I would rage against the machine or something, but that would almost be work. 22:31:11 --- quit: sayke (No route to host) 22:34:28 any one know where to find guide on write a gui? 22:34:48 I want to os like windows 22:34:59 instead of *X 22:36:31 ? 22:37:10 --- join: zwane_ (User-10448@modemcable092.130-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 22:41:55 no guide 22:42:15 ok, thanks 22:42:21 better than no response 22:42:28 hi geist 22:43:05 * cuebol does his best mentally challenged wave 22:43:29 that's a pretty advanced thing 22:43:45 there aren't any more than a handful of gui implementations at all anyway 22:45:10 hi cuebol 22:45:15 york: You have a pretty stable OS atm? Good libs and such? 22:45:42 --- quit: zwane (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 22:46:48 not yet, 22:47:03 I just want to prepare the gui early 22:47:12 Not possible 22:47:16 yhow much do you have done? 22:47:29 just finish the kernel malloc 22:48:15 I will write interrupt and context switch next, 22:48:30 but most code can be adapt from linux 22:48:39 anyway, there is virtually no documentation about how to write a windowing system 22:48:40 so it will hopefully soon 22:49:08 there are only a handful of real implementations in the world anyway, it's simply something that most people dont have to do 22:49:31 Ok, I will try to find the simplest one 22:49:34 I recently started on one, and it's fiendishly complicated 22:49:48 it can easily get to be nearly as complex as a kernel itself 22:49:57 depending on how fast you want to make it 22:50:10 Ahh the classic "Son, I'm sorry.. They got us!" line from Indiana Jones: TLC 22:50:57 geist: where did you start from? 22:51:05 scratch 22:51:16 general knowledge of how things work 22:51:17 When he shoots the shit out of his own plane's tail 22:51:36 A lot of people don't even start from scratch 22:51:52 I in general know how a non-backing store based windowing system works 22:52:04 but the implementation can be incredibly complicated 22:52:42 it's somewhat easier to do a macosx style windowing system (where every window is fully backed by memory) 22:53:38 I must leave for a while, thanks geist 22:53:44 --- nick: york -> york_away 22:53:50 beh i'm staying home today... feel way too ill 22:53:54 --- nick: dax_ -> dax 22:54:08 dax is illin 22:54:11 dax: I'm thinking about calling in sick tomorrow 22:54:21 My lungs are full of nasty 22:54:31 I think I caught a geist 22:54:38 got 2 tests today... blah 22:54:47 my throat hurts alot 22:55:02 I won't even go there sir ;) 22:55:41 you caught a geist? 22:55:43 I'm just laying in a ball on the floor with 2 blankets and a laptop.. My mom has like the full blown flu 22:56:01 lol. 22:56:27 I said no such thing and I suggest you all /clear to dispell any further myths 22:56:42 btw geist, you're right about the windowing stuff, no documentation 22:57:00 and alot of implementations, like xfree86, are uhm a bit too large to study 22:57:28 and it's tremendously complicated 22:57:40 Well, to tell you the truth I'd rather have something to attach my GUI too 22:57:47 it's completely humbling to see what really goes on when you move the mouse pointer, for example 22:57:50 i wrote one for daxos a while ago 22:57:51 What would he have? XMalloc? 22:58:45 actualy it was more of a client/server drawing thing 22:58:49 was a bit slow 22:58:57 as was mine 22:59:21 it could run in 1024x768 with 2 curved windows fully AA-ed 22:59:45 basicly it was just an experiment with a Quartz like interface 22:59:45 AA= anti-alias? 22:59:50 cuebol: yes 23:00:15 I'm not totally retarded 23:00:56 dax: where you merged fully backed windows? 23:01:12 hmm? 23:01:24 well, you said quartz like interface 23:01:37 which is the low level renderer in OSX 23:01:59 well uhm yea quartz like interface... the functions were similar 23:02:08 dunno about the internal working of quartz 23:02:15 heh 23:02:27 and i only know my windowing system was a) memory inefficient b) slow 23:02:38 basically the way osx works versus X or windows is to simply have a full backing store for every window 23:02:46 ie, a full bitmap holding all of the pixels 23:03:01 really? 23:03:09 hmm isn't a bad idea 23:03:15 so the low level rendering engine just has to basically pull the right bits from the right buffers as it draws out 23:03:18 and the apps dont have to care about stuff like dirty regions and have paint() events and all that 23:03:34 makes it really easy to do translucent events, makes the app interface a lot simpler 23:03:40 the downside is it burns a fuckload of memory 23:03:49 yeah 23:03:56 and makes it hard to do things like resize a window (since you have to reallocate buffers a lot) 23:04:16 which is incidetally one of the slow things in macosx 23:04:21 theres bound to be some fucking nasty leaks too 23:04:32 heh the windows port of my GUI used opengl 23:05:19 macosx uses gl at the lowest layer which means it uses hardware to merge a lot of the windows 23:05:28 that was the performance tweak they did on quartz in jaguar 23:06:17 anyway, that system is the other reason you'll never ever see a window 'trail' across the screen as you move it 23:07:17 the alternative is much much more complicated, it's where as you move windows or 'uncover' portions of windows, you send an event to the app and it has to draw it 23:07:30 effectively the app draws directly onto the screen, but only on it's little spot 23:08:02 so it's much much more efficient with windows, but a lot more complex, and if an app doesn't respond or is slow it looks bad 23:08:18 can you delete a sf prject? 23:08:22 also pushes a lot of the load onto the app, since it has to support a paint event that gets called all the time 23:08:46 * geist gets a gin & tonic 23:10:24 --- join: zhware_ (~zhware@external.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 23:11:35 makes my stomach hurt just thinking about it 23:11:44 gin + tonic? 23:11:47 mmm, gin 23:12:02 heh 23:12:09 Yes 23:12:23 I have a good old bleeding ulcer 23:12:30 If I drink I puke blood 23:12:44 shit dude, why are you on irc 23:12:51 you should be asleep or something 23:13:14 hahaha 23:13:42 if I go lay down I'll just cough for 6 hours 23:13:59 yuck 23:14:00 atleast when I pass out I won't notice as musch 23:14:01 -s 23:14:22 geezus man 23:14:33 --- quit: york_away ("Client Exiting") 23:14:35 what can you do about ulcers? does it heal and leave you alone? 23:14:48 To a certian point yeah 23:15:01 I have a problem with worrying 23:15:09 I do too much of it ;) 23:17:06 Its a lonnngg story.. 23:17:13 --- join: zhware__ (~zhware@xmail.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 23:17:43 --- quit: zhware__ (Client Quit) 23:17:53 --- quit: zhware_ ("leaving") 23:18:08 You can read about it in my AutoBiography "When Good Children Go Bad, Then Good Again, Then Bad Once More, Finally Good Again" 23:18:09 * geist tries to figure out which solaris cd I burned here 23:18:14 it could be disk 1 or 2 23:18:20 On sale fall of 2039 23:18:27 heh 23:18:55 --- quit: zhware (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:20:36 --- join: zhware (~zhware@external.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 23:20:40 rebooting in a bit prolly 23:23:59 okay 23:25:15 Printer installation :D 23:25:15 --- join: york (~root@nwkea-http-2.sun.com) joined #osdev 23:25:49 shiz 23:26:05 downloaded the worng driver :( 23:26:13 forgot the laptop uses 98 23:26:47 dumbass 23:26:53 Indeed 23:27:02 This dumbass is going to sleep 23:27:11 I'll catch you flip 23:27:12 nite, hope you get better 23:27:15 aight 23:27:22 me too 23:27:27 --- quit: cuebol ("DIE") 23:28:22 http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_displays_gallery2010&PHPSESSID=6fdbe6dc87f2536738626c9badd043d8 <-- that is one nice lcd 23:29:08 600:1 contrast 23:31:11 ahaha go eizo! 20.8", 2048x1536 native res 23:33:06 wow eizo their refurbished monitors are CHEAP 23:33:15 $175 for a 15" 23:33:28 NEVER get a refurb 23:33:29 ever 23:33:44 I speak from experience 23:34:44 * geist just made a bunch of coasters 23:36:48 hmm i wouldn't buy a refurbed LCD 23:37:11 cheap eizo can't be good 23:37:22 eizo should be expensive like hell. 23:37:27 the problem is that their definition of 'factory spec' is different than what you'd expect 23:37:41 I got a refurbed sony monitor and it was definitely not factory quality 23:37:48 I sent it in 4 times, and they always sent it right back 23:38:01 I eventually gave up, and it died for real about 6 months later 23:38:12 I gave up and stole a monitor from work 23:38:25 well eizo has their quality part a bit higher than sony normaly 23:38:34 still, dont do it 23:38:44 it's pretty risky 23:38:57 but for eizo you're normaly looking @ $800 for a 15" lcd 23:38:59 if the tube has any problems, they can't fix it and will just resell as refurb 23:39:35 i think their 19.6" is still $6k 23:39:40 fine whatever 23:39:43 buy it, I dont care 23:39:54 just my little warning 23:40:00 not going to 23:40:16 either way, my impression of sony went down quite a bit 23:40:27 before then, any sony product I'd ever got was pretty good 23:40:27 if i would buy an lcd now it would be a nice 20" or so, not-refurbished. 23:40:46 of course, the sony monitor division != the rest of the company 23:40:54 true 23:40:57 I've been very happy with my sony laptop, until I recently retired it 23:41:20 i love my lcd. 23:41:34 thus far I love my powerbook 23:41:39 12"N 23:41:45 kind of wish I could install linux on it, but not yet 23:41:46 oh wait i asked that already 23:41:48 yeah, 12" 23:42:02 isn't the lcd a bit crappy? I read that in a review somewhere 23:42:19 looks okay to me, the angle isn't too hot 23:42:40 but with a laptop you're pretty much guaranteed to be looking at it directly on 23:42:46 yea true 23:43:05 is the thing still made out of titanium? or did they revert to aluminum? 23:43:14 aluminum I think 23:43:24 it's a totally different design than the 15" 23:43:33 I'm not sure why they call em titaniums 23:43:40 the 12" and 17" are the same design 23:44:44 the 15" was/is titanium 23:45:02 phone 23:45:14 toaster 23:45:32 back 23:45:36 :D 23:45:38 front 23:45:57 ON TOP. 23:46:09 oh wait that sounds like my gf. 23:46:13 what happen? 23:46:24 liesbeth? 23:46:28 somebody set up us the bomb. 23:46:38 nm that was a little "joke" of mine. 23:46:45 liesbeth? 23:46:48 --- quit: kreep (Remote closed the connection) 23:46:48 yes 23:46:50 oh I thought that was for real 23:47:01 --- join: mors (~skywalker@64.104.136.140) joined #osdev 23:47:13 figured she as a geek girlfriend that popped in 23:47:21 on the other hand, she was in a different country, wasn't she 23:48:18 hmm no 23:48:27 just like uhm 10km away 23:49:13 anyone needs a 1.8GHz oscilloscope? :D 23:49:26 for free? :) 23:49:30 http://www.dovebid.com/assets/display.asp?ItemID=web1282422 23:49:34 bid starts at $200 23:49:39 (online) 23:49:41 weee.. 23:49:56 naw, I have access to tons of eqiuipment at work 23:50:03 hell, I had one on my desk for a while 23:50:21 blah :( 23:50:37 still haven't decided to get the microcontroler dev board or the books for my birthday 23:50:39 I should start hacking a usb stack, we have a usb bus analyzer at work that's quite bitchin 23:53:20 brb 23:56:57 --- join: sayke (~abuse@sttldslgw29poolC186.sttl.uswest.net) joined #osdev 23:57:09 front 23:58:12 hmm what fun stuff could i do with a microcontroler? 23:58:16 * geist does a few exersizes with a pair of small barbells 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/03.02.09