00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/03.06.18 00:00:14 oh 00:01:07 too warm here 00:01:23 and one side of my nose is closed... 00:03:59 gonna work a bit on my ATA/ATAPI driver 00:06:20 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:08:07 sleep 00:08:10 --- nick: geist -> geist-sleep 00:23:06 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 00:29:27 --- quit: witten ("Client exiting") 00:30:17 --- join: wl (philipp@pD9E2DF73.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 01:06:15 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable027.101-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 01:12:55 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.185) joined #osdev 01:14:56 --- quit: Mathis ("good night") 01:20:17 --- quit: bono ("Lost terminal") 01:24:22 --- quit: revanthn () 01:29:13 --- join: trans (aeboxl@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:08:26 --- quit: wl ("Quit") 02:26:36 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:28:33 --- quit: gfafgawrg ("Fhtagn-Nagh Yog Sothoth") 03:17:04 --- join: blueice (~andrew@203-219-125-194-vic.tpgi.com.au) joined #osdev 03:23:44 --- quit: lodda (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds) 03:28:16 --- quit: air ("cria 0.2.8cvs15 -- http://cria.sf.net") 03:29:20 --- join: trans (jhiqvv@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 03:49:26 --- join: gfafgawrg (~gfafgawrg@213-35-164-36-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 04:08:00 --- quit: mors (Remote closed the connection) 04:13:13 --- part: kyelewis left #osdev 04:16:32 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:35:28 --- quit: Odin- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:36:08 hi 04:39:36 --- join: lodda (~playgroun@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 04:50:48 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:02:36 --- join: wl (philipp@pD9E2DF73.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 05:17:25 --- join: wl_ (philipp@p508655B7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 05:21:24 --- join: air (~brand@12-210-162-121.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 05:21:24 --- quit: wl_ (Client Quit) 05:28:56 --- quit: blueice ("Client Exiting") 05:38:48 --- quit: wl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:49:31 --- join: trans (agapar@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 06:04:58 --- join: Mathis (irc@pD9EABD4A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:05:10 hi 06:16:29 --- join: wl (philipp@p508655B7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:16:46 --- join: dax (dax@u212-239-201-42.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 06:21:01 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:26:03 lie 06:30:16 hrm 06:30:41 doesnt newos have tcp stack, fs and eth0 in the kernel? 06:38:27 --- join: karingo (karingo@92.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 06:39:00 Kernel based network stack (full TCP/IP) 06:39:12 Dynamically loadable kernel modules: drivers, filesystems, generic modules 06:50:31 --- quit: karingo (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:31 --- quit: wl (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:32 --- quit: debug (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:32 --- quit: Divine (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:51:08 --- join: karingo (karingo@92.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #osdev 06:51:08 --- join: wl (philipp@p508655B7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 06:51:08 --- join: debug (~debug@meego.hemmet.chalmers.se) joined #osdev 06:51:08 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 06:56:37 --- join: mors (~skywalker@64.104.136.140) joined #osdev 06:57:08 hola folks 06:57:15 holla 06:57:29 (spanish 'holla' with two L) 06:59:09 or even one L 06:59:20 --- join: mrMister (~andri@ti122110a080-0648.bb.online.no) joined #osdev 07:02:57 --- quit: cookin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:08:41 holy hell!! 07:08:55 a spider just crawled on my foot 07:09:03 the hell isnt holy 07:09:37 * air hates spiders 07:09:47 --- quit: karingo () 07:10:04 * Mathis likes spiders 07:10:36 they catch all those other migs 07:11:50 hm 07:12:35 * Mathis does not hm 07:13:28 ok 07:13:39 arg 07:13:54 now my skin is crawling 07:14:02 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:14:03 --- quit: lodda (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:14:06 http://fun.drno.de/pics/Why_women_cannot_work_in_IT.jpg <--- heh 07:15:26 --- join: lodda (~playgroun@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 07:15:35 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 07:15:58 hah 07:16:43 http://fun.drno.de/pics/polska.jpg <-- heh 07:20:05 http://fun.drno.de/pics/ferrari.jpg <-- heh 07:20:34 http://fun.drno.de/pics/advanced_keyboard.jpg <-- heh 07:21:28 http://fun.drno.de/pics/dortmund.jpg <-- heh 07:22:42 http://fun.drno.de/pics/trippy.jpg <-- heh 07:23:20 http://fun.drno.de/pics/ooops12.jpg <-- heh 07:23:35 http://fun.drno.de/pics/x-box-spec.jpg <-- heh 07:24:11 --- join: Ishq- (Ishq@frm-64-4-103-110.access.ntelos.net) joined #osdev 07:24:23 --- quit: MoneyCat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:26:36 http://fun.drno.de/pics/organigrama.gif <-- heh 07:27:22 http://fun.drno.de/pics/Fitness.jpg <-- heh 07:30:15 http://fun.drno.de/pics/romanische_Architektur.jpg <-- heh 07:34:13 http://fun.drno.de/pics/wires.jpg <-- heh 07:35:48 http://fun.drno.de/pics/hardcorefuck.gif <-- heh 07:37:05 http://fun.drno.de/pics/dollar.jpg <-- heh 07:41:12 http://fun.drno.de/pics/hotdogs.jpg <-- heh 07:45:45 http://fun.drno.de/pics/computer.jpg <-- heh 07:46:38 --- join: Matzon (Mazon@0x50a1b5bf.unknown.tele.dk) joined #osdev 07:47:54 --- join: z3r0_one (~z3r0_one@lsanca1-ar51-4-42-020-164.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #osdev 07:48:06 --- part: Ishq- left #osdev 07:48:25 --- join: MoneyCat (Ishq@frm-64-4-103-110.access.ntelos.net) joined #osdev 07:48:59 yo air, you alive? 07:49:20 ya 07:49:22 nah, sorry.. we couldnt inform you 07:49:29 oh. he is. 07:49:39 --- join: trans (yuvhct@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 07:49:59 can you remove the old ban 07:50:10 i cant even change my nick when in this chan 07:50:12 what ban? 07:50:19 its the first ban on the ban list 07:50:29 how do you see the ban list? 07:50:39 oh.. i guessed it 07:50:42 /banlist 07:50:46 im smart 07:50:47 heh 07:50:53 wtf 07:51:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o air 07:51:03 --- mode: air set -b Ishq-!*@* 07:51:09 thanks 07:51:20 --- mode: air set -o air 07:51:28 --- nick: MoneyCat -> blahgagsetg 07:51:33 wOoOo 07:51:36 --- nick: blahgagsetg -> MoneyCat 07:52:03 --- join: redblue (star@ppp014.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 07:54:23 Mathis: yer nick isnt registered? 07:57:43 seems so 07:57:46 why? 08:02:46 btw, that computer.jpg kicks ass 08:03:12 i was gonna make u an op but yer not registered 08:03:26 I dont wanna be an op 08:09:42 --- join: cookin (~jrydberg@h107n3c1o1044.bredband.skanova.com) joined #osdev 08:10:50 --- join: solarium (~solarium@213.22.169.67) joined #osdev 08:10:59 Hi 08:11:10 gtg, sleep 08:11:12 --- quit: Mathis ("good night") 08:15:09 hi 08:19:16 hi cookin 08:21:59 hello 08:23:38 ah, gotta love the telemarketers who leave 10min messages on answering machine 08:24:13 ouch 08:25:21 gladly enough, the ones in my country ain't that "advanced" ;-) 08:25:45 where ya from 08:25:48 lucky u 08:26:05 portugal 08:26:13 k 08:28:07 air: if you want to give op, i have no problem being op ;) 08:28:58 --- join: Schutsch (~nihil@pD9E75F2E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 08:29:06 its not for kids :P 08:29:12 ! 08:29:21 hi schutsch 08:29:26 hi 08:29:36 hi Schutsch 08:29:45 mors: guess you are a kid then too 08:30:07 yeah. i wish i was one :) 08:30:10 something new in OS-Development 08:30:12 ? 08:30:47 hmm. yeah schutsch.. air is distributing Ops. you gotta qualify though 08:30:59 a few physical and mental tests.. 08:31:03 no 08:31:17 you just need to give him nice images :)=) 08:31:18 lol 08:31:22 hehe 08:31:50 got two oops in new channels today 08:31:56 you are right 08:32:02 (i am the only member) 08:32:05 :) 08:32:50 pff 08:34:38 stewpid opera hung again 08:35:59 mors: mine would crash whenever I went to my phone company's online billing system 08:36:51 this time it hung when i used the java applet thingie. it mostly crashes when i use lotsa mouse movements 08:37:14 anyway, dont have enough memory to use mozilla.. 08:40:21 good thing that it comes back with the earlier pages 08:44:51 hmm, wondering, how much does the POSIX standards cost? 08:45:19 $1995 08:45:28 ouch 08:46:28 quite expensive 08:48:04 ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/doc/posix/p1003.2/d11.2/ 08:48:18 hmm :) 08:49:05 I heard they were not available, is that incomplete or something? 08:49:21 dunno what it is but it does have a lot of info 08:49:43 indeed :) 08:49:45 thanks 08:50:04 i think the current spec is non-free but they release old specs 08:53:02 --- nick: geist-sleep -> geist 08:53:20 yawn 08:53:25 would be nice if they released the changelogs for the current release to avoid implementing something that is partially or completly outdated and useless, assumming that they these release isn't completly obsolete, but I think they wouldn't do such a thing. Where was RMS and GNU when posix was created? 08:53:42 s/that/what 08:53:47 hi geist 08:53:56 howdy 08:56:07 was the bday party worth yesterday? :-) 09:00:42 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@oc-nas-11-s38.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 09:09:24 --- quit: Divine (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:09:24 --- quit: debug (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:09:24 --- quit: wl (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:09:49 --- join: wl (philipp@p508655B7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:09:49 --- join: debug (~debug@meego.hemmet.chalmers.se) joined #osdev 09:09:49 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 09:20:39 --- join: jdandr2 (~jdandr2@139.55.16.46) joined #osdev 09:21:04 the uzix.org/bart.gif isn't there :( 09:30:53 my ip + /about/stuff/googlebart.gif 09:32:25 --- join: Odin- (~sbkhh@adsl-2-216.du.snerpa.is) joined #osdev 09:32:45 Odin-: u making odin os? 09:33:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o air 09:34:02 --- topic: set to 'Operating System DEVelopment www.osdev.org || links: http://brix-os.sf.net/library, http://www.osjournal.hopto.org, http://www.osdev.com.ar, http://osdev.neopages.net || stats/people/logs: http://bespin.org/~qz/irc || http://bespin.org/~qz/bart.gif || http://www.mega-tokyo.com/forum/index.php?board=1' by air 09:34:07 jikes takes forever to compile 09:34:43 why does my cellphone keep switching to analog dammit 09:34:54 cause you live in canada 09:34:58 stonge ages man 09:35:02 er stone even 09:35:09 lol 09:35:12 heh 09:35:16 there back to digital 09:35:19 it seems to not like my room 09:37:16 --- quit: aard|zzzz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:39:48 still building jikes 09:40:06 jikes is made up of about 20 c++ files, each of which takes about a minute to compile 09:40:16 even on like a 1.5 gig machine 09:40:27 they grow to 50 or 60 MB of core while gcc is running 09:40:32 * file noticed C++ source takes longer to compile than C on his system 09:40:39 oh you bet 09:40:53 especially if you use heavy templates and whatnot 09:41:08 STL etc 09:41:15 * file nods 09:51:35 * geist got 95 spam messages last night 09:51:36 sigh 09:56:01 --- quit: Schutsch () 09:59:13 --- quit: Kurt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:07:37 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-189-104.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 10:09:34 mur 10:09:51 privet komrad debug! 10:10:11 yo 10:10:40 do russian people understand 'komrad'? :) 10:10:46 hmm 10:10:47 tovarisch 10:10:49 I thought it was tovarishch 10:10:50 yes 10:11:08 hmm 10:11:14 * mur does not remember now 10:11:19 I haven't forgotten it all 10:11:21 comrade is english. 10:11:46 Tovarisch is the russian word they used; comrade is the English translation. 10:11:50 doesn't swedish have some comrad style word? 10:11:56 kamrat 10:11:59 yes 10:12:17 it is not used much. only as klasskamrat (class mate) 10:12:55 Kamrat Stalin. 10:13:03 Din valgorare... 10:14:17 --- part: jdandr2 left #osdev 10:14:26 I was told that tovarishch it being used again in russia. I got the impression that it was used mostly 'for fun' though 10:14:56 old words are respected now again 10:15:06 they had inflation during 80 10:15:09 s and 90's 10:15:11 ok 10:15:11 i think 10:15:18 or at least 90's part 10:15:44 Russia went through economic hell after the collapse of the USSR... 10:16:13 (As did most of the countries that belonged to that union...) 10:16:26 sure if you change economical system 10:16:48 it'd be economical hell too if iceland became dictatorship 10:16:51 or such 10:16:59 What? You mean it isn't, already? :p 10:17:09 * Odin- doesn't hold the government in high regard. ;) 10:17:29 okay. right-wing fascist dictatorship, better now? :) 10:18:10 Not really. The government is right-wing, and seem to lean towards fascistic behaviour. ;) 10:18:55 sounds fun. if you belong to the fascist core 10:19:05 That is precisely the problem. :p 10:22:35 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.208) joined #osdev 10:27:26 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FCF08.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 10:33:01 --- join: newbs (newbs@ts1-illavl57.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 10:43:08 --- mode: air set -o air 10:44:24 --- quit: air ("cria 0.2.8cvs15 -- http://cria.sf.net") 10:50:59 Odin- is the problem 10:52:13 --- quit: revanthn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:02:35 --- nick: Zenton_ -> Zenton 11:03:07 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 11:09:55 --- quit: Dr_Evil (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:55 --- quit: newbs (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:55 --- quit: redblue (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:56 --- quit: lodda (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:56 --- quit: mors (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:56 --- quit: minddog_ (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:56 --- quit: sayke (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:09:57 --- nick: Zenton -> Zenton_ 11:10:20 --- join: newbs (newbs@ts1-illavl57.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FCF08.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: redblue (star@ppp014.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: lodda (~playgroun@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: mors (~skywalker@64.104.136.140) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: minddog_ (~minddog@67.128.0.32) joined #osdev 11:10:20 --- join: sayke (~abuse@sttldslgw29poolB224.sttl.uswest.net) joined #osdev 11:32:28 --- quit: Odin- ("Fear of the dark.") 11:40:32 --- join: aard|zzzz (wvo96r@p508C5263.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 11:40:50 --- nick: aard|zzzz -> Aardappel 11:54:42 --- join: Odin- (~sbkhh@adsl-2-216.du.snerpa.is) joined #osdev 12:03:15 --- quit: z3r0_one (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:03:32 --- join: malenfant (~malenfant@bmjc1gvy308a.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #osdev 12:05:34 --- join: thib_ (~thib@jever.grandrokk.is) joined #osdev 12:10:42 --- quit: thib_ ("Client Exiting") 12:12:00 --- join: kernel2421 (~silvio@ppp-185-181.25-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 12:18:43 --- join: darkito (~darkito@102.Red-80-25-82.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 12:19:46 good afternoon 12:21:59 moi 12:22:08 hey mur 12:22:16 no snow in summer :\ 12:22:52 there is skiing hall in finland 12:22:58 you can ski in the pipe in summer too :) 12:24:26 I can't skiing 12:24:28 heh 12:24:41 not enought money 12:24:45 enough 12:26:43 --- join: thib_ (~thib@jever.grandrokk.is) joined #osdev 12:35:11 --- quit: thib_ ("Client Exiting") 12:37:39 --- join: pavlovski (~tim@host217-44-188-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) joined #osdev 12:59:10 * debug tried to begin design work again 12:59:29 hm 13:02:50 #openbsd dosent have a clue so ill ask here fdformat /dev/rfd0c works fine but when i try and dd my boot sector to it i get invalid argument 13:04:42 I sometimes get invalid argument in bsd if I try to cat a file onto a floppy, and the file isn't exactly 1.44MB 13:04:47 but dd should be ok. 13:05:19 newbs: if you take a look at the contents of the floppy after writing to it, has it been updated? 13:05:40 what do you mean updated? 13:05:46 i format it before i try and put anything on it 13:06:38 has it been updated with your new bootsector? 13:07:01 the floppy has nothing on it 13:07:02 if it has been written to the floppy and you get an error, then you could probably ignore the error 13:07:05 at least not that im aware of 13:07:23 what do you see with hexdump /dev/fd0c? 13:08:01 0000000 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 f6f6 13:08:06 ok 13:08:17 how do you use dd? 13:08:33 dd if=boot.bin of=/dev/rfd0c 13:08:53 hm. I would do dd if=boot.bin of=/dev/fd0c bs=512 count=1 13:09:06 ok 13:09:54 openbsd# dd if=boot.bin of=/dev/rfd0c bs=512 count=1 13:09:54 dd: /dev/rfd0c: Invalid argument 13:10:11 thats what i get then it goes on to explain how it transfered 0 bytes 13:10:29 have you tried without the 'r' in the device name? 13:10:38 nope 13:11:12 =) 13:11:14 there we go 13:11:21 gotta reboot i dont have an emulator yet lol 13:11:25 ok 13:11:31 good luck 13:11:36 --- quit: newbs ("out like a spandex jumpsuit") 13:14:51 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81874.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 13:17:18 --- join: newbs (newbs@ts1-illavl57.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 13:17:38 --- quit: thib (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:17:59 it worked for the most part it gave a buncah messed up letters but then it printed my message lol 13:20:06 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:20:16 newbs: try bochs too 13:20:23 --- join: redblue (star@ppp019.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 13:20:25 im looking into that now 13:20:30 it's probably in ports 13:20:33 somewhere 13:20:45 yah in emulators 13:22:49 the whole cycle [ reboot, try new kernel, reboot back into openbsd, start editor ] on my laptop takes 6 minutes, I think. it can run bochs too. trying out a new kernel with bochs takes like 3 mintes. (it's an old 486 laptop) 13:23:03 sometimes bochs is nicer, sometimes bare hardware is nicer 13:23:34 heh 13:26:53 --- quit: kernel2421 (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:27:18 --- join: heavyjoost (~heavyjoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 13:27:39 --- join: kernel2421 (~silvio@ppp-185-181.25-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 13:33:21 --- join: bono (~bono@modemcable027.101-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 13:39:15 --- join: pli (per@ce00521-p19-hertas5.cenara.com) joined #osdev 13:39:36 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 13:40:03 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FCF08.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 13:52:05 --- quit: dax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:53:19 --- nick: heavyjoost -> HeavyJoost 13:55:27 --- join: Nairou (trilluser@adsl-63-201-210-123.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 13:56:27 --- part: Nairou left #osdev 14:00:57 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@oc-nas-11-s213.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 14:07:44 --- join: CyberJack1275 (~trillian@host-209-214-161-130.rdu.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 14:11:57 --- quit: Dr_Evil ("reboot") 14:12:42 --- quit: wossname ("^______-") 14:14:15 --- part: pli left #osdev 14:14:39 --- join: thib (~thib@jever.grandrokk.is) joined #osdev 14:17:48 Any room members also subscribe to news: alt.os.dev ? 14:19:11 --- join: jsr (www@du-12-55.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 14:24:39 --- join: gianluca (~glguida@ppp-100-136.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 14:24:55 hi people 14:25:02 bounjourno 14:25:15 s/jou/gio/ 14:25:17 --- join: witten (~witten@ip-64-32-131-193.dsl.lax.megapath.net) joined #osdev 14:25:27 oh yes !! 14:25:28 :) 14:25:34 * mur was reading today pasta book ;) 14:25:45 a book made out of pasta? 14:25:51 what 'buongiorno' has to do with pasta book? 14:26:05 anyone here ever implemente high memory stuff? 14:26:17 implemented i mean 14:26:31 high memory = ? 14:27:25 pav: not direct mapped as virtual address = offset+phisical_address 14:27:37 you mean paging? sure 14:27:45 i don't mean paging 14:28:07 then what? 14:28:16 oh fsck 14:28:27 i think i was kicked or k-lined from efnet 14:28:32 Memory over 1MB ? A20 line ? 14:28:49 cyber: no. i mean linux's glossary high memory. 14:29:21 when you implement paging, you usually map the phisical memory at a given virtual address 14:29:29 you map the whole phisical memory it fits 14:29:37 not necessarily 14:29:45 you don't need to direct map any physical memory 14:29:57 pav: ok, this is what i wanted to hear 14:30:04 it makes some things easier if you identity map a portion of physical memory 14:30:21 IIRC NT maps 512MB in this way -- but NT supports much more than 512MB total physical memory 14:30:21 pav: not even when switching from real mode to prot mode { x86 arch } 14:30:28 CyberJack1275: not if you do things properly 14:31:15 pav: this is what i asked. how to handle smart the zone over the phisical mapping. 14:31:16 ah! ok. was thinking from intel 86 prog manual... identity map small amount before the switch 14:31:23 damnit! I've lost my SPDIF2video cable 14:31:37 yes, you've got to identity map the current CS:EIP region before you enable paging 14:31:51 but after that, anything goes 14:32:11 o.k. thanks pav 14:32:15 i put the puter downstairs to the TV but now i can't find the fscking cable :-(( 14:32:52 ah mapping all of physical memory 14:32:58 a tough problem, I see you've hit it 14:33:02 or at thinking about it 14:33:15 gianluca: what I do is: 14:33:23 - map the first 128MB at a fixed kernel address 14:33:26 geist: i could be implement 14:33:27 Great topic to walk into.. eh Geist ? 14:33:32 - provide another 128MB spare 14:33:34 i could be implementing it i mean 14:33:34 CyberJack1275: yep 14:33:36 BTW Greet! 14:33:47 if you want to access a page below 128MB directly, just add 0xF0000000 to it 14:33:59 otherwise, make a temporary mapping in the 0xF8000000 region 14:34:36 well i currently can set at pre-compile time the offset and the size of phisical memory mapped 14:34:47 ok 14:34:56 gianluca: but that doesn't scale 14:34:59 and if you need something above that? (which you often don't) 14:35:06 you will 14:35:21 for example, how can you zero fill a page before it's requested and mapped? 14:35:32 this really annoys me... all the effort to put down the puter and all downstairs..then the long search for the cable... i definetly need less chaos :( 14:35:35 you have to temporarily map it, zero it out, then map it in it's final place 14:36:10 geist: hmm yes. 14:36:47 I do something similar to pavlovski 14:37:01 I have a chunk of virtual address in the kernel (256 or 512 MB, I forget) 14:37:02 geist: can't you have a background process that zeros pages? 14:37:13 and I carve it up into 4MB chunks 14:37:15 so they're all zeroed and ready to go when you request 'em? 14:37:19 witten: yes 14:37:25 witten: I'll get to that in a minute 14:37:37 --- quit: thib ("Client Exiting") 14:37:58 so if you request a physical page to be mapped in, it looks to see if it's part of a 4MB chunk that was already mapped in, if it was it incs the ref and passes back the pointer 14:38:11 otherwise it looks in a LRU of 4MB chunks that were mapped and finds the oldest one 14:38:19 maps in a new 4MB chunk of physical space 14:38:28 I do 4MB so it can use the x86 large pages 14:38:50 the api to this is basically 14:38:56 geist: yes, this is kmap()'ing right? 14:38:56 void *get_page(); 14:39:01 put_page(void *); 14:39:11 gianluca: dunno what kmap()ing is 14:39:40 this is strictly to map in physical pages on demand, I may have redesigned something else that is called something else 14:39:46 geist: IIRC it was the linux kernel function to get 'high memory pages' virtual address 14:39:53 ah 14:39:57 just temporaries 14:40:00 right 14:40:02 you do kmap() and kunmap() 14:40:16 i already thought to implement something like that 14:40:17 this lets you get to all pages in the system, the pages can be 64bit address if you like 14:40:39 in mine it's a 32-bit page number, which means 32 + 12 bits of address, enough for x86 14:40:39 kungfumap() 14:40:40 :) 14:40:56 K un GFU map 14:40:58 i use unsigned 32 bit too 14:41:06 kungfoomap() 14:41:21 btw, i was looking at solaris structure 14:41:26 so in the case where the system has <= the size of this region of virtual space of physical memory, after a while all of physical memory gets mapped 14:41:37 I *think* this is basically what NT does 14:41:42 geist: I do what you do but I have a single 4kb page for "temporary mapping" 14:41:45 which isn't really enough 14:41:49 but it works for now 14:42:10 yeah, all I did was make a lru of these pages 14:42:15 and then make the pages be 4MB 14:42:18 but it's the same thing 14:42:20 yah, I'll probably do that eventually 14:42:31 there is obviously the case where you try to map at the same time more pages than you have slots 14:42:36 geist: btw i like the lru handling 14:42:48 geist: i didn't had the idea 14:43:18 and all cases where the code has to map more than one page at a time has to make sure it can gracefully unmap itself or youhave a deadlock 14:43:35 yeah 14:43:55 I basically only use the temporary mapping for my page tables 14:43:57 not much else 14:44:07 geist: what if you want to access more than 4MB at a time? 14:44:11 so i was talking, i've seen that solaris has at basis a kernel virtual memory address allocator, 14:44:30 so you basically ask a virtual memory range and fill it with pages 14:44:32 geist: I do what you do, but build up and tear down regions of arbitrary size each time they're needed 14:44:42 without thinking about mapping and unmapping 14:44:55 oh no... 14:44:59 this is another problem 14:45:01 :p 14:45:07 * gianluca temporarily shut up 14:48:22 And the room grows silent. 14:48:23 --- quit: darkito ("[BX] Its not TV. Its BitchX.") 14:48:32 wowooo 14:49:36 a wolf howl from someone calling themself a Cat ? LOL 14:54:16 my ISHQ is my love! 14:56:58 o.k. too quiet. so I will ask a question. well.. more like an opinion poll. Centralized Resource Management... or Distributed RM ?? 14:57:34 pro's and con's of each ? 14:58:46 pavlovski: sorry am back 14:58:48 example? 14:58:55 I have 512MB of memory, carved into 4MB chunks 14:59:02 so in that case I can access up to 512/4 chunks at a time 14:59:18 or maybe 256 I forget 14:59:26 it's a constant in the code, I can change it 14:59:44 --- join: int13h (~int13h@calcium.nelte.lt) joined #osdev 14:59:51 --- part: int13h left #osdev 14:59:59 so can you have > 4MB of contiguous address space mapped at the same time? 15:00:10 geist: how do you get the oldest page chunk entry? 15:00:10 e.g. if you want to read 5MB from a device in one go 15:01:09 you cant 15:01:22 but you wouln't use it for that 15:02:04 o.k. CRM - kernel controls all resources.... DRM - kernel protects.. and OS Libs in Userspace actually *manage* the resource... pros + cons of each ? 15:02:40 cyber: thinking at exokernels? 15:03:09 Micro / Exo 15:03:20 was trying to weigh Micro / Exo against Monolith 15:03:51 you should not put together micro- and exo- kernels 15:04:13 there's much differents. 15:04:26 May I ask for elaboration Luca ?? 15:04:41 luca? me? :-) 15:05:11 if you understand the differences.. hee hee 15:05:18 would you prefer Gian ? 15:05:18 i mean exokernel architecture is 'orthogonal' to microkernel/exokernel problem 15:05:33 my name is gianluca :-) 15:05:33 xhmm.. /me recalls luca being some cute gil in a game. 15:05:56 Ahh ! Lodda... thinking Chrono ? Lucca <-- 2 c's 15:06:02 you killed my father 15:06:04 no, your name g 15:06:49 --- quit: gfafgawrg ("Fhtagn-Nagh Yog Sothoth") 15:06:58 Gian... thinking Exo takes Micro's idea just a little further ?? 15:07:02 i'm missing letters and words :) 15:07:28 cyber: i don't think. 15:07:42 cyber: you could think at it like a lower interface monolithic kernel 15:07:43 cyber: I forgtot which game :( 15:08:22 Exo is a Monolith pushed closer to hardware level ?? 15:08:34 Lodda -> Chrono Trigger / Chrono Cross 15:09:19 cyber: exo are kernels that just multiplexes resource, without any abstraction and with giving hardware status to user mode. 15:09:27 cyber: yup guess so 15:10:14 l 15:10:18 .. and with giving .. not at all a good english expression... :/ 15:10:18 Exo pushes the Abstraction { the Virtual Machine } into OS Libraries running in Userspace... 15:10:29 cyber: what? 15:10:33 now i miss the whole sentence :) 15:10:39 cyber: you could do it 15:10:46 O.k. How does this differ from Micro ? 15:10:47 it's late.. i'll go to bed now, night 15:10:59 Good Night Lodda! 15:11:24 cyber: in a big way : microkernel's processes are servers, that make decisions for the system, exokernels are user's thing 15:11:39 exokernel's liboses 15:11:42 i meant 15:12:04 O.k. Servers vs User space Code! 15:12:08 O.k. I see.. thanks Gian 15:12:14 cyber: not only 15:12:39 cyber: in microkernel you will likely have a swapper that will put unused memory to a swap device 15:12:50 cyber: in exokerne every user implement it's own swapper 15:12:58 --- quit: emmons ("leaving") 15:13:07 cyber: microkernel tends to be centralized, exokernel are not! 15:13:17 Central vs Distributed Rescource Management 15:13:19 o.k. 15:13:21 exokernel IS not damn english 15:13:23 :-) 15:14:05 cyber: this is imho the greatest difference, plus remember the lower hardware interface and the real machine's status exposing to user space 15:14:23 these are the main exokernel's three things 15:15:09 micro then.. still makes decisions for the applications, which could be good or bad for the particualr application . 15:15:21 cyber: yo. 15:15:50 as well as hides a lot of lo-level info.. which exo exposes 15:16:04 (sorry if i call you cyber but i have not tab completion ;)) 15:16:23 cyber: yes 15:16:30 Cyber ... CJ .... Jack.. what ever easy for you Gain 15:16:37 i mean Gian. 15:16:50 my fingers not agree with me tonite. 15:19:48 o.k. since i have a better understanding of Micro / Exo... the pro's of exo seem to agree with my theory that as each Application knows it's needs better than the Traditional OS { Monolithic }.. the App should be given as much power as possible to manage the resources. 15:20:20 I guess I should delve a little deeper into exokernel research. 15:20:31 my apologies for the long post. 15:21:22 Was it M.I.T. for the exokernel?? 15:21:41 cyber: Massachussets Insitute of Technology :-) 15:22:15 o.k. M.I.T. was hoping I recal correct 15:22:41 cyber: sorry, i didn't read well the phrase: i am going to fall asleep... nm 15:23:06 * gianluca going to bed 15:23:08 Go ahead and get you some rest Gian.. Much appreciate the clarity 15:25:42 no problem cyber, i've lost last years on thinking about exokernels :-) 15:25:55 --- quit: jsr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:26:17 yay, I think I found the bug in the mutex code I checked in yesterday and broke some devices 15:26:29 whee! 15:26:37 what did you break? 15:27:15 it was a priority inversion problem (sort of) in a ghetto but fast spinlock-like code in userspace 15:27:26 trying to emulate an atomic_add on arm in user space 15:27:32 only have a swap instruction 15:27:55 pardon, but ich ! :P only a swap! 15:28:56 --- join: dax (dax@u212-239-165-83.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 15:29:24 #define MAGIC_COUNT 0x7fffffff 15:29:24 #define atomic_add(var, add_count, magic_val, old_val) \ 15:29:40 while (((old_val) = atomic_swap((ulong *)&(var), magic_val)) == (magic_val)) \ 15:29:41 sleep(10); \ 15:29:41 (var) = (old_val) + (add_count) 15:29:45 plus indentions 15:30:16 cant paste into this damn irc client with leading tabs 15:30:30 > 15:30:40 _ 15:30:47 | 15:31:31 anyway, I totally hosed it 15:31:36 that was the fixed version 15:31:45 I had a yield() instead of sleep() in there 15:31:51 damn wal-mart! bought splinter cell and the box was empty! 15:31:57 %@#%^ 15:32:54 dont go wal-mart 15:32:59 they are cheaters and traitors 15:33:14 you have wal-mart in finland? 15:33:47 * gianluca gotta really go 15:33:48 no, which is good 15:33:54 later gianluca 15:33:57 good night gianluca! 15:34:11 night geist, mur and everything else 15:34:25 woOoo 15:34:29 --- quit: gianluca ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 15:34:29 Night Gian! 15:38:40 --- quit: wl ("Quit") 15:38:50 --- join: air (~brand@12-210-162-121.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 15:40:38 --- join: emmons (~emmons@www.emerus.com) joined #osdev 15:45:11 * pavlovski tries Tabos 15:45:18 hmm, looks like Unix 15:45:50 loses points for not turning off the floppy drive motor 15:46:03 gains points for supporting Ctrl+Alt+Del 15:46:57 * pavlovski tries NT 4 15:53:05 --- quit: emmons ("leaving") 15:53:07 --- join: emmons (~emmons@www.miscstuff.net) joined #osdev 15:55:02 he 15:55:03 h 16:03:34 --- quit: Matzon () 16:05:00 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by deer") 16:09:44 --- part: CyberJack1275 left #osdev 16:11:28 i 16:12:37 ~ 16:12:42 ++ 16:12:50 +++ 16:12:51 ATH 16:12:53 ` 16:13:08 DUP 16:13:30 anyone really good with mysql? 16:14:10 --- nick: Zenton_ -> Zenton 16:14:24 #mysql 16:14:37 heh 16:15:27 * pavlovski speeds up his graphics output by removing all the debug messages 16:15:32 SELECT MoneyCat FROM #Osdev 16:16:12 SELECT cookies FROM store WHERE cookies=oatmeal 16:16:20 yum 16:16:46 is it possible to make a field in a table that assigns itself a unique ID? 16:16:56 without me handling the assignment? 16:17:32 yes 16:18:14 hm 16:18:30 juse use Access to generate the code 16:18:32 gonna tell me? 16:20:20 Seinfeld time 16:20:41 * file goes in search of floppy disks 16:24:24 --- quit: file (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:35:24 --- nick: Zenton -> Zenton_ 16:45:49 --- quit: HeavyJoost ("rew00t") 16:46:03 --- join: HeavyJoost (~heavyjoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 16:46:10 --- part: kernel2421 left #osdev 16:52:22 --- quit: pavlovski ("Client exiting") 17:00:02 --- join: file (~intranet@mctn1-2098.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 17:17:56 --- quit: zhware (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:22:10 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 17:24:18 --- quit: mur ("MURR!") 17:28:13 --- join: zhware (~zhware@external.silveregg.co.jp) joined #osdev 17:28:54 Now 17:36:30 imagine all the people 17:37:13 Living live in peace. 17:37:18 life, even. 17:37:42 sharing all the world, too 17:38:05 Imagine no posessions. 17:44:03 damn, listening to JL has got me all wanting to hack os code again 17:44:11 I wrote a lot of newos listening to nonstop Beatles 17:48:18 :) 17:49:19 --- join: Nairou (trilluser@adsl-63-201-210-123.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 17:51:05 Good boy! 17:59:30 I read the news today, o boy 18:01:16 * Robert would love to turn geist on. 18:08:10 lol 18:17:43 heh 18:18:38 Hello, is there anybody in there? 18:18:48 * Robert saw a Simpsons episode making fun of that song. :) 18:19:18 oh yeah, I remember that one 18:19:26 Toad licking. 18:19:40 And then Marge is calling via the radio :) 18:26:10 --- quit: thib ("Client Exiting") 18:43:09 * witten reads about Sweden outlawing breaking crypto 18:43:17 * witten blames mats 19:11:02 --- quit: file (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:11:20 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@oc-nas-11-s129.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 19:16:22 Haha. 19:16:41 The new Swedish laws are probably only liked by Kurt and the music industry. 19:16:48 Not by sane people. :) 19:25:46 --- join: redb1ue (star@ppp053.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 19:26:30 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:29:32 --- quit: mrMister ("gone") 19:50:40 --- join: file (~intranet@mctn1-2098.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 19:59:13 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:00:02 anyone have any good ideas on how i should prevent ppl from writing scripts to spam my new comment system? 20:01:01 generating an image with random numbers is one way but it would be nice if there was something that didnt force the good users to do more 20:01:29 a cookie, perhaps? 20:02:29 Limit the number of comments from an ip within a specific period of time? 20:03:38 Nairou: thats what i do now 20:03:48 ahh 20:04:05 but that stops ppl who post a lot of good comments and it only slows down the scripts 20:05:53 --- nick: redb1ue -> redblue 20:07:33 Do you happen to know what scripts you're trying to block? Web/javascript scripts, or mouse/keyboard emulation scripts? 20:09:23 have u seen http://brix-os.sf.net/library ? 20:10:04 it has a bunch of 'report' buttons and someone wrote a script that clicked-thru on each button 20:10:14 ah 20:10:29 or maybe it was just a spider crawling the site 20:10:46 hehe 20:11:04 --- quit: witten ("Client exiting") 20:14:06 The "image with random numbers" method is the only 100% sure way I can think of 20:14:13 But you could do a variation on that... 20:14:49 They click the report button, and a window pops up, maybe askin if they're sure, with yes/no buttons... 20:15:17 however the whole page is composed of clickable images, of which the yes/no buttons are only two of them 20:15:28 script wouldn't know which one to click 20:16:07 It has flaws, but its the only alternative I can think of 20:23:32 --- quit: newbs ("out like a spandex jumpsuit") 20:24:43 maybe i'll just remove the antispam code and see if it was really a spider, cuz i also have antispider code :) 20:30:29 woah! 20:30:34 pgup/pgdn work in nano 20:34:17 yay 20:36:15 air: if you check the IP of the person who added all the comments and my IP, you will see many similarities 20:38:27 heh 20:46:07 --- quit: Rico ("Vacation in France!") 21:11:38 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:17:19 --- join: redblue (star@ppp056.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 21:25:50 --- part: Nairou left #osdev 21:29:36 --- join: trans (avtzkj@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 21:30:12 --- quit: solarium (".") 21:31:39 --- join: Mathis (irc@pD9EABD4A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 21:31:51 hi 21:53:11 hi 21:53:14 * geist just got home 21:54:59 http://fun.drno.de/pics/freak.jpg 21:55:09 thats gonna be the channel mascot 22:04:18 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:04:18 * mors got back from a motorbiking trip that lasted 5 days.. now, the mind is blank wrt coding 22:05:16 cool 22:13:01 --- quit: Kurt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 22:15:54 oh man, windows rocks when it comes to desktop activities.. 22:20:50 ooh, cisco stocks are 18.73$. should I sell it or not.. hmm, guess i will wait till 20$ :) 22:20:54 greed 22:29:58 --- join: Kurt (~kmw@oc-nas-11-s15.cinergycom.net) joined #osdev 22:37:15 --- quit: Kurt ("Connection reset by deer") 23:14:45 --- quit: msa_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:17:29 --- join: msa_ (~msa@81.49.91.95) joined #osdev 23:21:33 --- quit: Mathis ("good night") 23:26:29 mors: Did It drop yet? :P 23:31:55 --- join: trans (azkjmg@fatwire-201-79.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 23:36:03 damn. dont even think of the stocks dropping 23:38:46 arg 23:39:02 gotta sleep so i can get up and make food for poor ppl 23:39:13 ah. thats me 23:39:34 fedex the food across. heh 23:40:09 heh 23:40:19 this is church food 23:40:49 --- join: bryno (~bryno@adsl-208-191-126-239.dsl.snantx.swbell.net) joined #osdev 23:40:57 but those poor ppl eat well, they make these really good mash potatos with built in butter 23:41:14 u can eat them right out the can without adding water 23:41:15 --- part: bryno left #osdev 23:49:50 --- quit: air ("cria 0.2.8cvs15 -- http://cria.sf.net") 23:57:20 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 23:58:09 --- join: ZzyzxRd (~knoppix@host-66-81-195-98.rev.o1.com) joined #osdev 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/03.06.18