00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/03.09.01 00:03:36 --- quit: idle (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:36:08 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:37:20 hi mathis 00:37:28 --;^^;--^-; 00:37:37 &&%(/%)$)%/&$&/&$& 00:37:45 @#$$%^^&*()!@# 00:38:15 how glad we all are... 00:45:20 --- nick: jwesley -> jwesley-sleep 00:54:20 --- quit: Slowcoder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:54:32 --- join: Slowcoder (~jaja@213.187.193.219) joined #osdev 01:03:10 --- quit: Slowcoder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:03:21 --- join: Slowcoder (~jaja@213.187.193.219) joined #osdev 01:37:53 --- join: kyelewis (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 01:47:01 --- quit: I440r_ () 01:57:19 --- quit: wonbear (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:03:45 --- join: trans (aybcjk@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:29:08 --- join: Kincaid` (~kincaid@pD9E7DB0D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 02:36:07 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:46:59 --- quit: Kincaid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:49:38 --- join: wonbear (~wonbear19@210.107.236.66) joined #osdev 03:07:47 yeehaw 03:14:52 --- quit: gfafgawrg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:16:59 ... 03:17:14 come, get some! 03:24:11 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:45:28 ok i'll get that 04:01:31 anyone else want some 04:01:44 boom boom 04:05:11 --- join: trans (uvjwpy@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 04:09:51 --- quit: wonbear () 04:15:11 --- join: kdehl (~madman@as3-2-3.sgp.lk.bonet.se) joined #osdev 04:15:17 morning. 04:16:49 robert? 04:16:51 Nope. 04:16:52 k 04:16:56 Breakfast time. 04:26:35 --- join: idle (fool@208.27.1.77) joined #osdev 04:28:51 --- quit: ide (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:35:14 --- join: gfafgawrg (~gfafgawrg@217-159-133-58-dsl.kvm.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 04:51:35 http://www.internetisshit.org/print.html 05:10:49 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:17:08 --- quit: draq (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:49:24 --- nick: lodsb_ -> lynx 05:56:36 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 05:58:29 --- quit: Aardappel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:07:07 --- quit: lynx ("Client Exiting") 06:18:17 --- join: nullify (nullify@pool-138-89-95-52.mad.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 06:35:19 --- join: trans (azbauy@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 06:48:57 --- quit: eniac (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:54:06 anyone has a working linux2.4.18 .config file i can get? 06:57:29 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:08:30 --- quit: nullify () 07:16:59 --- join: lynx (~lodsb@pD9544749.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 07:20:41 #linux 07:21:59 mors all the configs depends on each machine :( 07:22:31 yea.. thought i would then do a make using that .config and change anything i want to.. 07:22:42 --- quit: idle ("Sic Sempere Tyrannis!") 07:22:43 anyway, i think i got it to work 07:23:04 mors perfect, I don't have such file, 'cause I didn't compile it yet 07:23:28 ok 07:31:14 --- join: raiche (~f@h124n2fls34o1109.telia.com) joined #osdev 07:31:34 --- join: idle (fool@208.27.1.81) joined #osdev 07:38:29 raiche :) 07:39:30 :-) 07:58:11 What is BDA 07:58:11 ? 07:58:21 ; Memory Layout: 07:58:21 ; 0x0000-0x03FF IVT 07:58:21 ; 0x0400-0x04FF BDA 07:58:25 --- join: wcstok (strtok_r@dialup-67.31.178.91.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 07:58:33 What has he put there? 07:58:36 bios data area prolly 07:58:38 Base Descriptor Addres? :) 07:58:41 oh. 07:59:01 mors: Something I don't have to care about as the vector table at 0x0000 in PM? 07:59:51 yea, you shouldnt bother about areas other than the video ram and maybe bootsector 07:59:53 I'm about to decide where to put the IDT and GDT in memory. Would there be any problems if I keep them at 0x0000 and up? 08:00:43 mors: I use Grub, so I don't use my own boot loader. It just puts the kernel at 1MB and enters PM for me. I guess I won't be in any trouble then, will I? 08:01:23 yea, guess so. shouldnt be a prob. but you still have to watch for those video ram areas 08:01:26 On the other hand, that BIOS Data Area could be nice to have, to read out information of the computer... or is it standardized? 08:01:26 kdehl: it won't hurt anything, but why 08:01:50 wcstok: Why not? It was just an idea. Where should I have them you think? 08:02:03 wherever your c compiler decides to put them =) 08:02:10 (aligned properly of course) 08:02:27 wcstok: No, I put that part in asm. as the memory manager for now. 08:03:05 yeah. bios areas are nice to have. specially if you plan to use virtual x86 mode. i guess thats how you access bios interrupts from pmode 08:03:24 hm. I see. 08:03:54 I would like to use virtual x86 mode later, so I guess I don't touch those areas then... 08:05:21 I don't touch anything < 1mb, except the video mem (and marking the 0 page as not present) 08:06:18 hm. okay. 08:06:57 But I want to use as much of the free memory as possible though. To make it runable on compuers with very limited amounts of RAM. 08:07:31 But of course, I should take one thing at the time. 08:09:50 allow your kernel to be paged out, hehe 08:11:28 yea. Heh. Esepecially the mm. 08:11:45 yep, that goes first 08:12:15 hehe 08:16:53 --- nick: jwesley-sleep -> jwesley 08:19:45 --- join: newbs (~tumbler@ts1-illavl294.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 08:19:57 >>PANIC<< exception(): 3rd (13) exception with no resolution 08:20:25 petrusss: Learn to live with it. 08:21:09 live with it? hell, even windows has a chance to pop up a bluescreen before doing that =P 08:22:14 hey guys whats up 08:22:34 hehe 08:22:49 keyhack: Nothing much. Trying to code, as usual. :) 08:23:03 kdehl: cool, I stopped working on my OS a long time ago, unfortunately 08:23:10 its been a while since I've been in here 08:23:48 that sucks 08:23:54 heh 08:24:21 I was thinking... maybe one should set up a stack? A stack is kinda nice to have. 08:24:34 shouldn't this work? char *screen = (char *)0XB8000; *screen = '='; 08:24:39 x* 08:25:25 kdehl: I didn't really know wtf I was doing with parts of my code haha 08:25:35 sure, watch out for those pesky attribute bytes though 08:25:54 hey kdehl :) 08:25:55 ok. 08:26:09 nothing happens when I test it :/ 08:26:26 did you memset the video mem to 0 08:26:46 hi ree. :) 08:27:12 keyhack: Heh, that's a bad way of coding. :) 08:27:22 lol I know 08:27:33 wcstok, hm? 08:27:34 nope. 08:27:53 i'd start over again, if I knew where to begin, I know what language(s) I want to do it in, I used to boot up with Grub but I think that was my first problem 08:28:16 keyhack: What do you mean by that? (I use Grub) 08:28:30 kdehl: Well, I didn't know what Grub did and didn't do for me lol 08:28:39 ah.. 08:28:49 Check the multiboot specs. 08:29:04 kdehl: I just wish I could find some real good sources on this 08:29:08 do I really have to set the video mem to 0? 08:29:42 keyhack: Are you kidding? There are tons out there. Heck, even the multiboot specification contains example code. 08:29:49 no, and don't do it 08:29:58 if you do you won't see anything at all, heh 08:30:13 kdehl: I dont know 08:30:50 wcstok, but 0xB8000 is the text memory? for console? 08:31:13 color screen text, B0000 for mono 08:31:26 mm 08:31:35 --- quit: jwesley (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:31:48 would bochs generate an error if I tried to access 0xB8000 when not in pmode? 08:31:48 and you don't have to set it to zero before using 08:32:09 you can access linear address B8000 using B800 as a segment address 08:32:12 but someone might have already 08:32:25 mov ax, 0B800h 08:32:30 mov ds, ax 08:32:33 write the attribute byte along with the character byte 08:32:52 mmm 08:33:15 I know where to start, I must learn assembly, because I definitely don't follow any ASM code 08:33:25 mov [offset], byte 'C' 08:33:39 heh, if you don't know asm.. get out of here :) 08:33:52 well, I'd buy a book if someone knew a good book on ASM 08:34:00 * keyhack is all about books 08:34:09 webster.cs.ucr.edu get the dos 16 version of Art of Assembly 08:34:20 developer.intel.com get all their intel and pentium architecture serials manuals 08:34:38 Barry B. Brey .. get his Architecture, Interfacing, and Programming x86 microprocessor series 08:35:10 heh, someone's going to have alot of homework =P 08:35:10 Assembly Language, Step by Step, Jeff Dunteman 08:35:17 nah 08:35:19 wcstok: :) 08:35:22 skip all asm-specific books 08:35:26 get Brey's 08:35:28 --- join: trans (jdkibx@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 08:35:30 asm is SIMPLE 08:35:35 why skip ASM books? 08:35:36 it's learning the hardware that is the problem 08:35:49 Yes. Indeed. 08:36:02 because you need to know infinitely more about your hardware than you do just simple mnemonics 08:36:06 and I said asm specific 08:36:22 Brey's book has all the info you need about every single asm mnemonic and their possible opcodes 08:36:26 hmm. 08:36:33 because you dont need to know asm just to know asm, you need to know the little bits that you can't do in nice happy C code 08:36:35 "for" command doesn't work either. 08:36:37 it's a little pricey though, but it's one that will last you long time.. plus it appears to be the most updated 08:36:39 But getting used to asm is pretty tough, esp. on x86 where there is no logic. 08:36:51 heh, no logic 08:36:52 ree: pricey? how much 08:36:56 110 08:37:01 ree: Not bad at all 08:37:03 but it's one book versus having to buy several 08:37:12 ree: I paid about that much for a OS book on Minix 08:37:13 you might find it for cheaper 08:37:21 it's more of an architecture book than just programming 08:37:29 yeah, hardback too 08:37:30 ree: I have one of those already lol 08:37:39 it's got everything about asm too :P 08:37:51 is it usual that C/C++ "for" doesn't work in a kernel? 08:37:59 and all source listings include the hex machine code of the instructions 08:38:22 right, I have a book just like that, hold on... 08:38:23 Robert: There was no problem with Minirc yesterday. There's this new guy named Nizze on Freenode now... :) 08:38:44 kdehl: :D 08:39:02 Second Edition of Operating Systems: Design and Implementation by Andrew Tenenbaum and albert Woodhull 08:39:03 kdehl: But if you run it in telnet, and press backspace... bad things might happen! 08:39:28 Robert: No, it works just fine. I don't have a monitor for that box, I'm always telneting. 08:39:42 kdehl: OK. What Minix version? 08:39:44 keyhack, i have the same one 08:39:46 2.0 08:39:51 without networking, ... 08:39:58 * Robert has it, too. 08:40:04 he (: 08:40:28 so, it was a start 08:40:38 I haven't read all of it yet 08:40:57 Robert: 2.0.2 Couldn't get 2.0.3 working with mu network cards. 08:40:58 my 08:41:24 * ree takes his gun out and shoots the bastard called Tenenbaum 08:42:16 kdehl: Oh, you have a network CARD o_O.. 2.0.2 works fine with my serial cable. ;) 08:42:38 * keyhack still uses an ISA network card 08:42:47 I don't get why I haven't bought a PCI one yet 08:42:49 kdehl: I had to mess around with the terminals alot before minirc worked. 08:42:49 lol 08:42:54 heh 08:43:20 * wcstok still uses an isa sound card (the isa network card had to go...not enough slots) =( 08:43:29 ree: Well, he did a pretty nice OS. Unix for 286... that's just... just... fucking sexy! 08:43:43 it is? 08:43:52 excuse me while I go barf... :) 08:43:57 Robert: Yea, I hade lots of trouble before I got the terminal working, but once I had that, minirc worked just fine. 08:44:03 ree: Hah 08:44:05 forget the 286, that evil thing runs on the regular 'ol 8088 last time I looked 08:44:07 wcstok: But when I transfer big files across the network, my machine comes to a screeching halt, this is because the ISA card uses CPU power? (someone said that to m ebefore) 08:44:24 wcstok: But it does run in 286 PM if you want it to. 08:44:58 is that still the extent of any os made by Tenenbaum? 08:45:09 yes but who would, the 286 pm is a joke =P 08:45:14 I use ISA network cards in several of my servers. Those that don't have PCI slots. :) 08:45:17 or does he have other projects by now 08:45:55 ree: Have no idea. It can also run in 386 PM, but the thing is still that it's actually using the capabilities of the 286 that I doubt any other OS does. 08:46:11 yeah, and for good reason kdehl 08:46:26 wcstok: Might be true that. But still... :) 08:46:28 windows did :D 08:46:51 yeah 08:46:55 wcstok: But how well? I have had this minix box running for several months without crashing. 08:46:58 win 2/3.0 vs minix 08:47:07 ree: Oh, shut up! :) 08:47:13 * ree would use windows 08:47:15 :) 08:47:31 I will most certainly make a 16-bit port of my OS one day. 08:47:33 with sidekick 08:47:57 I just stick to ANSI C, and compile it on the minix box. And make some kind of boot loader for it. 08:48:01 my system is just going to run on P2 or greater 08:48:10 no backwards compat 08:48:15 ree: Heh. You're so modern! 08:48:23 in fact, I was thinking about cuss words for people running old procs 08:48:30 but I didn't have any space left in the boot sector 08:48:31 * wcstok restricts his to only amd chips, so nyah! 08:48:33 I have only on such box. 08:48:43 nah, I meant P2 and comparable wcstok :) 08:48:53 I have one P3, all other boxes are Pentium as most. 08:49:03 and I was making a funny =) 08:49:04 I just have amd machines anyway 08:49:19 --- join: SIS-1650-01 (~sis@as11-2-1.rny.s.bonet.se) joined #osdev 08:49:37 * kdehl applies for a VISA credit card 08:49:56 eww 08:50:08 supporting 2/4mb, most MSR, SIMD... 08:50:08 * kdehl realizes it's a bad idea and throws it away 08:50:24 2/4mb pages rather 08:50:29 * wcstok likes his wells fargo (visa compatible?) check card, heh 08:50:30 can't do any of that on older hardware 08:50:33 2MB pages? 08:50:54 yeah 08:51:06 if you enable 36bit... 08:51:08 Can't pentium handle 4MB pages? 08:51:16 nothing lower than PPro 08:51:19 oh.. didn't know about that. 08:51:31 hm 08:51:34 this way you can put your entire kernel in one page 08:51:39 kernel code/data/stack 08:51:45 Yeah. 08:51:57 one page, one pagedir...what's the difference really =P 08:52:05 and I just found out you can do both 4mb and 4kb pages at once 08:52:09 so that made me happy 08:52:10 ree: But... wouldn't that be waste of memory? 08:52:17 um... 08:52:18 you can? 08:52:21 yep 08:52:22 you can 08:52:27 * kdehl learns a lot today. 08:52:28 sure, it's just one bit 08:52:33 just one ibt, yeah 08:52:34 bit 08:52:44 But that's for pentium and up, right? 08:52:50 ppro and up 08:52:52 * kdehl goes for 386 08:52:54 oh. 08:52:56 eww 08:52:57 heh 08:53:01 Nothing for me then, I guess. 08:53:03 ppro/p2/k6 08:53:06 + 08:53:11 mkay 08:53:23 we already have dos for running on 386 08:53:25 let it die! 08:53:37 but not amd64 in the 64 bit mode iirc =/ 08:53:53 who cares about amd 64? 08:53:57 * ree spits on it 08:54:02 Uhm... 08:54:03 * Rico spits on ree 08:54:10 * Rico loves ree 08:54:11 ooh, you doubled the registers! 08:54:18 * ree rubs himself 08:54:26 heh 08:54:31 * Rico hugs ree 08:54:40 ahh, gay osdev love'n 08:54:46 no other place but here :) 08:54:51 =D 08:54:52 hehe :) 08:54:59 * Rico <3 ree 08:55:13 the <3 is a little ascii heart. 08:55:17 yeah I noticed 08:55:35 hehe, I'm on a 14" 800x600 monitor right now 08:55:38 oh my. 08:55:41 I couldn't pack and bring my monitor with me 08:56:04 hello all 08:56:05 Heh, you don't want to know what monitor I use in the server park... :) 08:56:09 hey file 08:56:16 --- join: Kylu (neo0208@217.96.36.51) joined #osdev 08:56:22 hi *.* 08:56:28 waddup? 08:57:24 does somebody know how to count the all avaible memory ? 08:57:34 Nah, it's time to get back to coding. 08:57:42 Kylu: yes. 08:57:51 can you tell me how ? 08:58:12 Kylu: http://www.osdever.net/tutorials.php?cat=0&sort=1 08:58:16 thx 08:58:29 Kylu: The easiest way is to just ask BIOS. 08:58:43 you meen bios src ? :) 08:58:43 except the bios might lie 08:58:43 yeah, but who does the easy way 08:59:18 I think I know whats holding me back, is some concepts, like how executables actually work, drivers, etc 08:59:23 ree: True that. :) 08:59:47 keyhack: Like, how does an OS work, and such details? :) 09:00:02 Software based memory testing ? 09:00:24 kdehl: well I know how an OS works, just some parts, not in great detail 09:01:04 that was worded improperly but yeah 09:01:05 lol 09:01:16 lal 09:01:52 No, I think I will spend this day reading INTEL386.TXT or whatever it's called. 09:02:19 --- join: mrMister (~andri@ti122110a080-3909.bb.online.no) joined #osdev 09:03:17 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 09:03:27 * kdehl has some homework to do 09:03:33 no coding? 09:05:42 ooohh, a guess game! 09:06:24 ree: Well, I gotta know what I'm doing once in a while too. :) 09:07:06 * keyhack ponders... 09:07:58 * keyhack mumbles... "cuble root..... suns..... diameter......." 09:12:57 Um.. 09:13:31 Does anyone of you in here have Intel 80286 Programmer's Reference Manual? 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--- join: wli (wli@holomorphy.com) joined #osdev 09:58:21 hrrrm 09:59:19 --- join: squire (Vikas@61.1.138.98) joined #osdev 10:02:26 What are you people doing to poor mr. freenode!? 10:14:54 --- quit: squire () 10:29:53 --- join: Matzon (Mazon@0x50a1b5bf.unknown.tele.dk) joined #osdev 10:31:35 --- quit: wossname ("somebody think of the children") 10:34:25 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-005txhousP0466.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 10:46:25 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80962.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #osdev 10:49:10 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:12:22 --- join: lodda (~playgroun@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #osdev 11:12:29 HEYHO 11:17:54 gargle 11:18:02 hey hoe! 11:18:15 hello world 11:18:19 --- quit: wossname ("gay sex") 11:18:55 --- join: cuebol (asad@adsl-64-164-114-202.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 11:22:26 :) 11:23:31 --- quit: idle ("Sic Sempere Tyrannis!") 11:29:26 --- quit: CLxyz () 11:29:57 --- join: CLxyz 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(pkbbez@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 12:15:38 --- quit: gfafgawrg (Client Quit) 12:16:59 --- quit: keyhack (Remote closed the connection) 12:20:09 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FD811.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 12:20:43 --- join: dax (dax@u212-239-163-100.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 12:20:54 Mijn dax! 12:21:04 Mijn lief klein snoezelig robertje! 12:21:55 wtf 12:24:39 ey daxie 12:24:54 haven't seen you for quite a while :) 12:25:27 --- quit: idle ("Sic Sempere Tyrannis!") 12:30:14 --- join: idle (fool@208.27.1.10) joined #osdev 12:31:52 hmm lodda 12:31:57 yodda 12:32:00 ficke ein fische 12:32:12 mijn schattige supersexy speelbeertje daxie! 12:32:19 :d 12:33:19 * Rico humps dax 12:33:24 OOH! 12:43:17 so how goes it? 12:44:27 Hoi, Rico! 12:44:36 --- join: jsr (www@du-13-226.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 12:45:55 hmm 12:46:56 < dax> ficke ein fische 12:47:01 erm ok.. 12:48:10 --- quit: jwesley ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030701]") 12:51:30 btw it's fisch 12:53:24 How would one say "bite my crank" auf deutsch? 12:54:26 i'm not going to tell you 12:58:06 Bitte! 12:58:13 cuebol: "Fick mich, bitte". 12:59:31 lugner 13:00:08 Nein. 13:00:38 --- join: Lpz (~HjuT@c-a84272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 13:02:57 I have no idea why I took german in HS.. 13:03:20 I live in california now, and I really don't come across many germans :) 13:03:31 Move to Germany instead. 13:03:56 yeah, shack with some 6'4 220lb german babe :) 13:04:08 haha 13:04:22 I'm 5' 10" 145 soaking wet 13:04:42 --- quit: newbs ("Client Exiting") 13:05:08 heh, don't let her sit on you.. you might not be about to get out :) 13:05:17 haha 13:05:50 about/able.. grr 13:11:54 --- quit: CLxyz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:12:07 --- join: CLxyz (~clxyz@00-01-03-d2-a4-07.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 13:12:36 amazing how the conversation always turns to me getting sat on by a huge german lady... 13:12:48 heh 13:13:02 yeah, you getting sat on by a huge german lady... 13:13:26 But enough about geist 13:13:32 :) 13:14:14 so, cuebol os? 13:14:26 Yeah I use one.. 13:15:11 do you have an os project in other words 13:15:16 Hehe 13:15:21 rehi 13:15:22 Not at this moment. 13:15:50 hey Mathis 13:15:57 I was working on the ever popular boot and print kernel. 13:16:01 came from work right now 13:16:02 ooh 13:16:05 my favorite project! 13:16:09 heh 13:16:19 infinitely familiar with such a project 13:17:41 I'm adding paging and tasking though 13:18:15 so not long before I can print the time my kernel booted at! 13:18:22 heh 13:19:07 I say "Let the user deal with it" 13:19:52 unfortunately no such thing exists in my system :( 13:21:35 --- join: Madmonky1 (~halfsane@12-211-122-232.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:23:16 I did an equal kernel project 13:23:25 and added some minor functions to it 13:23:43 like paging-on-demand and copy-on-write memory management 13:23:51 and device management 13:24:01 and RAM drive filesystem 13:24:06 and kinda Registry 13:24:19 and a small (incomplete) GUI 13:24:30 and a (functional) shell 13:24:40 with builtin commands 13:25:08 VESA linear framebuffer support 13:25:22 (incomplete) ELF binary support 13:25:33 (incomplete) IDE drivers 13:25:46 (incomplete?) PCI bus driver 13:26:49 these are just minor thingies ;-) 13:28:47 basically it is still a 'Hello World' kernel :-) 13:29:12 humble are we? 13:29:53 not sure about you, but I am :-) 13:31:22 I did have a kprint() and cls() 13:31:34 kewl 13:31:37 me too 13:32:32 printk("\f") does the same as cls() 13:33:39 Mathis makes me cry 13:35:29 I make cuebol cry, whaaat an hooonooor! 13:45:04 hehehe 13:49:36 --- quit: SIS-1650-01 (Remote closed the connection) 13:50:44 all of that yet still no new concepts :) 13:51:10 I am not working on my OS just to have new concepts 13:51:19 unfortunate 13:52:47 I have a new concept actually 13:53:06 Well its new to me :) 13:53:54 I'm going to make my ultra slow 13:54:19 Forcing the hardware market to increase performance :) 13:57:41 --- quit: jsr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:08:51 night all 14:09:46 Night loddachen 14:13:28 --- join: Ghiottone (~ale@ppp-64-8.27-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 14:16:24 http://journeyos.sourceforge.net/ 14:16:59 Ghiottone: where are the screenshots? 14:17:59 I think there aren't yet 14:18:06 it is at planning stage 14:19:33 heh 14:19:39 :) 14:19:43 website and everything, but nothing to present... 14:20:11 I've found it looking on OsNews 14:20:36 I recommend writing the OS first, then the website 14:21:29 if you don't write a website 14:21:40 you don't get developer to write the os with ;) 14:22:40 I am the only one developer on my project 14:22:53 I am also the webmaster for my site 14:22:57 mmm? 14:23:04 Weren't you working on bochs? 14:23:16 which is that project? 14:23:39 no 14:25:51 --- join: jwesley (~jwesley@adsl-18-197-170.mem.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 14:26:18 --- quit: jwesley (Client Quit) 14:26:30 my project is just known as OS project 14:26:42 website? 14:26:55 no, project, not website 14:27:16 ? 14:27:26 you said you have a site? 14:27:27 back 14:27:31 yep 14:30:10 --- quit: Lpz ("Mr.BooBoo is out to hunt chics.") 14:35:12 --- join: newbs (~tumbler@ts1-illavl218.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 14:45:38 --- quit: mrMister ("gone") 14:45:43 --- quit: asmodeus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:45:49 --- quit: Ghiottone ("Client exiting") 14:49:43 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 14:50:26 Heh, I agree with Mathis. One can brag once one's got something to show. Not before. 14:52:03 kdehl: that reminds me of somebody 14:52:49 he's a one man development force for a game, he wants about $1700 USD in funding from linuxfund to build a new computer for himself 14:53:11 he's got nothing to show except a few images he made in GIMP... and he won't give out specs and stuff without an NDA apparently 14:53:52 hahaha! 14:54:10 file[desk]: interesting guy, that. And he really thought people would care about him? 14:54:15 yeah 14:54:22 he picks fights with everyone, even great developers 14:54:31 err... 14:54:37 he sends patches in (like one liners) and then claims to be a major developer for projects 14:54:41 file[desk]: Where did you hear about him? 14:54:51 * kdehl reads 386INTEL.TXT 14:54:57 kdehl: a friend 14:55:07 ahh, the non-dislexic version kdehl :) 14:55:10 haha 14:55:30 ree: Huh? 14:55:35 kdehl: plus I've seen him in an argument 14:56:00 file[desk]: Oh my god... I'm glad I missed it, I guess. :) 14:56:11 you said intel386.txt before :) I was just poking you 14:56:16 ree: Well, English is not my first language. 14:56:20 Ah. I see. :) 14:56:31 heh, I mix them up often as well 14:56:39 ree: I thought it was named that back then though. :) I had no idea. 14:56:39 btw, do you not have the pdf manuals too? 14:56:58 ree: Yeah. I do want the 286 manuals though, I can't find them anywhere. 14:57:19 Yeah. (As in I have the pdf manuals) :) 14:58:12 I'm actually reading some HTML transformation of that TXT file. Pretty nice. 15:00:34 --- quit: cuebol () 15:03:55 gtg, sleep required 15:04:20 --- quit: Mathis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:05:44 why so interested in old hardware? 15:08:06 --- nick: wcstok_r -> wcstok 15:20:41 me? 15:21:00 I'm just the nostalgic type, I guess. :) 15:22:24 I collect old hardware. It's fun to learn and use. 15:26:46 --- join: Zenton (~vicente@8.Red-80-34-35.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #osdev 15:32:40 --- quit: wcstok (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:37:35 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:49:00 --- join: air (~brand@12-210-175-51.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 15:49:10 I'M BACK!!! 15:49:15 YES THANK GOD! 15:49:23 * thib feels good again! 15:49:30 what a wonderful weekend 15:49:59 and 2-wheel drive atv's suck ass 15:50:00 air: Tell us all about it! :) 15:50:19 got my ass stuck in a muddy lake 15:50:28 err 15:50:28 so emberassing 15:50:55 * kdehl pictures air sitting there... 15:51:16 but some really nice guy came along and found me and then went back to get his friend to come pull me out 15:51:30 --- join: jwesley (~jwesley@adsl-18-197-170.mem.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 15:51:39 so basically you got gang raped in mud air? 15:51:44 Sweet. 15:51:49 heh, no 15:52:14 he did make me get off my bike and walk to his to get the wench cable 15:52:51 oohh, sexy kind of 15:53:35 gave me a good idea tho, directable grappling hook wench 15:53:45 point, shoot and pull 15:54:02 do they exist? 15:54:32 air: Yubb, but they are NOT used in that purpuse. 15:55:07 --- quit: thib ("leaving") 15:56:26 so, any news in the osdev world? 15:56:40 other than journeyos 15:58:25 --- join: axeld (~axeld@pD9E57403.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 15:58:38 no 15:58:43 Hi geist. 15:58:56 I'm getting paging to work.. 15:59:06 yay for ree :) 15:59:10 yeah :) 15:59:13 What about journeyos? That one that doesn't exist? 15:59:24 kdehl: journeyos.sf.net 16:00:42 hehe, like the rock group 16:09:51 oy air 16:10:09 air : how is crush goin? 16:10:27 lynx: im in the process of adding its new syntax 16:12:13 --- quit: Zenton ("Terminando cliente") 16:16:53 new sxtax? 16:16:57 how will it look like? 16:17:11 --- quit: jwesley ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030624]") 16:17:14 similar to C 16:17:41 hehe 16:18:00 air : ah... 16:18:00 did you not have enough fun in the mud with your two "friends" air? 16:18:09 must you play with the channel folk 16:18:36 eh? 16:25:31 Let's sing a song. 16:26:54 * lynx goes to write some more parts of his netstack 16:27:14 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:29:06 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-005txhousP0466.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 16:30:40 what kind of netstack lynx? 16:30:54 the kind that talk to the net 16:31:56 well 16:32:03 IP/UDP 16:32:17 --- quit: lynx (Remote closed the connection) 16:32:49 --- join: lynx (~lodsb@pD9544749.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 16:33:03 ohh, not going ot make your own? 16:33:10 something more efficient 16:33:17 Hm. That'd be interesting. 16:33:23 that's what I am doing 16:33:29 eh? 16:33:30 yay for ree 16:33:31 ree: Let's hear about it. 16:33:42 heh 16:33:47 ree: Better than IPv6? :) 16:33:52 tcp/ip is built for reliability not efficiency. 16:33:55 much simpler 16:34:04 oh. 16:34:06 my os is centered around distributed networking 16:34:10 ree: actually im glad to hear that u'll be keeping yer virus infested OS off the public network 16:34:16 so efficiency is number one 16:34:25 ree: Like plan9? 16:34:37 distributed networking? 16:34:42 distributed computing? 16:34:53 What do you mean by distributed networking? 16:34:58 don't worry air, just so people can hit BRiX with DNOS I'll include tcp/ip and an easily hijack service 16:35:02 kdehl: he isnt really sure 16:35:06 I'll also port outlook :) 16:35:16 distributed network operating system (DNOS) 16:35:30 Which means? 16:35:37 kdehl: he isnt really sure 16:35:49 air: Yeah, yeah. :) 16:35:52 heh air 16:36:04 * geist does some fs maintenance on his home freebsd box 16:36:13 yay for geist 16:36:18 it'll have strong communication and signal processing between nodes 16:36:31 it's been a while since I booted into single user mode and fscked everything 16:36:45 though there has to be a switch you can set that tells it to fsck everything on next boot 16:36:46 it's distributed because it can seemlessly execute code across machines connected in a network 16:36:50 and shares a global memory space 16:37:01 solaris has a ton of those, you write a file out to / and it'll look at it at the next bootup 16:37:28 ree: How does it differ from plan9? 16:37:40 * kdehl waits for air to say "he isn't really sure" 16:37:44 :) 16:38:00 kdehl: plan9, dnos <-- different names 16:38:12 air: Ah! Didn't notice that. :) 16:38:25 kdehl: and plan9 is usable 16:38:26 kdehl, the emphasis is on a single layer of communication, heavily configured signal processing that can be done in realtime 16:38:38 air: It does certainly sound like an interesting OS, indeed. Do you have a website? 16:38:40 plan9 doesn't do full process migration or anything like that 16:38:40 timing and synchronization is built in 16:38:54 hm.. 16:38:55 plan9 just disconnects the process from everything else at the lowest layer 16:39:06 so the process can be running on whatever node you want 16:39:18 kdehl: i'll assume that was meant for ree 16:39:21 kdehl: he isnt really sure 16:39:24 I'll be using this to run simulations for neural nets and also operating a general purpose component architecture 16:39:24 :) 16:39:40 air: Yes, sorry about that. :) 16:39:43 I have a few projects in the works that will use dnos 16:39:43 air: hehe :) 16:39:51 yeah, no info up atm :) 16:39:55 www.dnos.net 16:40:01 ree: Like? 16:40:04 just basically a way to download it heh 16:40:21 kdehl: he is gonna use dnos in bars of soap 16:40:25 the simulated neural nets.. which I call origin 16:40:57 a semantic web/network ui I call mepha 16:41:03 for centralized computing 16:41:25 and a few commercial ideas 16:41:27 ree: spend less time coming up with names and more time writing code 16:41:30 gaming etc 16:41:37 ree: oh thats right, yer OS is gonna write itself :) 16:41:40 hehe, I came up with all these names years ago 16:41:46 except origin 16:42:01 I wasn't really into AI as much as I am now 16:42:13 Oh my... 16:42:38 it's going to be a pretty capable and efficient platform for all of this work 16:43:06 I want to support node-specific configuration with on-the-fly loading of components 16:43:54 create seperate networks of DNOS nodes, one network for neural net simulation, the other for the visualization of the statistics/etc 16:44:25 ree: And now, the important question: How far have you got. What have you done? 16:44:40 all these years have been about planning 16:44:44 I just started development 16:44:45 --- join: jwesley (~jwesley@adsl-18-197-170.mem.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 16:44:54 but I'm in it for the long haul 16:45:10 doing it all under an organization I've started 16:45:13 (DIST) 16:45:42 A serious registered organization? 16:46:24 yeah, well, registering it real soon 16:46:40 I haven't had a permanent residency long enough to get it together offiically 16:46:52 ree: Where are you living? 16:46:57 now I am in indiana 16:47:17 getting a part time job and then I'll be able to rent a warehouse and throw comp/soap equipment in it :) 16:47:34 my mom and I also have a bath and body products business hehe 16:47:39 but no space to do it in :) 16:47:42 erm? 16:47:47 ree: Where are you from then? 16:47:51 arizona 16:48:13 kdehl: he spent too time much in the heat :) 16:48:17 heh 16:48:25 nah, can't get enough of the desert :) 16:48:32 ree: Do you need a permanent residency to move from one state to another in the US? 16:48:33 unless you have no air like I did hehe 16:48:52 nah, you just need to be wherever for 30 days or longer 16:49:04 Allright. 16:49:25 And you run a business with your mom on top of this... 16:49:30 yeah 16:49:35 ree: Sounds like you do a lot, huh? 16:49:40 hehe, try to 16:49:44 if I didn't move so often 16:49:48 Well. 16:49:52 we like traveling too much :) 16:49:57 ree: Do I want to know why you're moving around? :) 16:50:00 Oh.. 16:50:08 ree: You live with your mom? 16:50:12 yeah 16:50:20 but it's more like traveling with my mom hehe 16:50:22 the locals discover his unnatural relationship with his mother :) 16:50:27 I just need to buy a damn laptop 16:50:28 ree: May I ask you how old you are? 16:50:32 22 16:50:34 air: Haha! :) 16:50:41 -81? 16:50:51 air, heh, the locals in Georgia demand such a thing :) 16:51:01 -81? 16:51:14 ree: and yer happy to comply? 16:51:17 You were born 1981? 16:51:30 ohh, yeah 16:51:34 January 28th 16:51:35 heh. 16:51:44 Great, now I know everything about you. :) 16:51:50 www.dist.org/~jwm/ 16:52:17 some really poorly written ideas 16:52:22 mostly brain dumps 16:53:07 hmm? 16:53:39 hehe 16:54:49 Yup. Brain dumps is probably correct. 16:55:15 Nah, it's time to get laid. 16:55:26 * kdehl goes away 16:55:30 heh 16:55:55 Have you noticed how creative you are after you've had sex? 16:56:03 wouldn't know 16:57:12 Well, I tell ya, when yer done you could probably save the world. From about anything. Am I the only one that works like this? 16:57:34 * kdehl realizes it's about time he shuts up now 16:59:45 Aaaaaaaaaand IIIIIII-IIIIIIIIIII will aaaaaaaaaaaaaalwaaaaaaays looooooooooooveeee youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-uuuuuuuuuuuu-uuuuuuuu, will aaaaaaaaaaalwaaaaaaaays loooooooooooveeee youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-uuuuuuuuuuu-uuuuuuuuuuuuu 17:01:06 you didn't realize that soon enough... 17:01:39 I didn't. I hate when that happens. 17:02:33 Time for bed? 17:02:45 Time for bed. 17:05:46 --- quit: kdehl ("bed") 17:08:10 --- join: trans (mnmjmd@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 17:13:49 --- quit: CLxyz () 17:22:13 --- quit: dax (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:39:17 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FD811.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 17:41:50 are these books work buying? Rebel Code: Linux and the Open Source Revolution (Glyn Moody), In the Beginning...was the Command Line (Neal Stephenson), Prey (Michael Crichton) 17:46:36 noone knows them? 17:46:39 --- quit: Madmonky1 ("http://www.halfsane.net/ < just click the link") 17:46:56 *nix... ehhhh 17:49:21 --- quit: lynx (Remote closed the connection) 17:49:44 --- join: lynx (~lodsb@pD9544749.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 17:55:55 --- join: cuebol (moo@adsl-64-164-114-202.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 17:57:24 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:57:42 anyone know if paging slows down addressing at all? 18:00:15 --- quit: cuebol (Client Quit) 18:02:45 --- quit: I440r_ (No route to host) 18:04:16 ree: yes 18:04:29 it has to fetch from the page tables on every tlb miss 18:04:38 though with modern cpus it's less of a big deal due to caching 18:04:54 but it was a much bigger deal back in the 386 days when most computers didn't have any cache 18:07:30 ahh, k 18:07:43 how often do tlb misses occur? 18:07:57 say I put the entire kernel code/data/stack in one page 18:08:13 if you do it in one page, then not nearly as often 18:08:39 ok.. most of my components will be smaller than 4kb anyway 18:08:44 but even the most modern cpus dont have more than 64 or 128 tlb entries 18:08:58 and my kernel will be in a 4mb page 18:09:00 but if you , for example, have 256 4 kb pages that you touch a lot 18:09:09 then you'll be tlb missing some 18:09:15 but you can't live without it, so that's life 18:09:17 geist do you know the book "Programming the Windows Driver Model 18:09:19 ? 18:09:31 and again, the cpu has cache it can cache the page tables with, so it's not nearly as big of a deal 18:09:36 Dr_Evil: nope 18:09:44 what if you don't want virtual memory geist? 18:10:14 other than the logical->physical addressing paging provides are there any other benefits? 18:11:00 no, in fact, modern computers are dumb 18:11:02 anyone else know this book? 18:11:07 transistors aren't useful really, 18:11:21 I can do everything with my abacus 18:12:32 even play pong? 18:12:59 argh damnit I forgot what command I need to use to set the display on my sun box 18:13:04 it's frigging irritating 18:16:15 --- join: cuebol (moo@adsl-64-164-114-202.dsl.mtry01.pacbell.net) joined #osdev 18:27:46 --- quit: newbs (Client Quit) 18:27:54 geist : did you set your arp-table to a fixed value or did you increase it dynamically? 18:28:00 s/did/do 18:28:57 it's a hash table 18:29:00 dynamically 18:29:07 ah i c 18:29:18 though I should probably put an upper limit on it 18:29:59 hrm 18:30:04 dnyamic hash table? 18:30:23 well no, but the hash table doesn't have a max limit 18:30:31 though after a while it'll degrade to a linked list 18:31:05 like a linked list with each node has 20 entries or soemthing? 18:31:10 argh 18:31:15 retard-english 18:31:29 no no, it's a hash table of fixed size. overflows go to a linked list 18:31:38 ah ok 18:31:55 i reuse that hash table code all over the place in the system 18:32:05 ic 18:58:05 --- quit: axeld ("Vision[0.9.7-0508]: i've been blurred!") 19:06:00 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0117.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 19:06:04 --- quit: I440r_ (Client Quit) 19:07:37 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 19:07:44 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0117.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 19:13:50 --- join: dax (dax@u212-239-163-14.adsl.pi.be) joined #osdev 19:22:17 --- join: trans (yljbpi@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 20:13:49 --- join: EtherNet- (~EtherNet@host44.200-45-180.telecom.net.ar) joined #osdev 20:13:50 --- quit: EtherNet (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:22:22 --- quit: Kincaid` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:32:15 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:32:46 mov cr3, KernData.pd 20:32:55 invalid operand 20:34:03 have to use a register I take it 20:34:16 heh 20:43:25 I guess for easier addressing and efficiency the page table/directory are aligned on a 4kb boundary? 20:45:05 yes 20:45:24 u can also have 4meg pages 20:45:36 not talking about the pages themselves 20:45:47 sure u are 20:45:48 yeah, I am going to do a 4mb page for the kernel 20:46:01 page dir and page tables ARE pages 20:46:14 the page table and page dir *have* to be 4k aligned 20:47:38 yeah, I read that 20:48:10 so I should padd between the pd and pt if I am loading them from a data section 20:49:05 or should I just set them up in memory 20:49:12 probably be easier 20:49:13 set em up 20:49:24 hey air 20:49:30 whats happening 20:49:30 hey cuebol 20:49:50 just cleaning out my bookmarks 20:50:27 --- join: keyhack (~keyhack@216-190-244-176.nrp3.mon.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #osdev 20:55:03 The moral is obvious. You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself. (Especially code from companies that employ people like me.) 20:55:12 Ken Thompson 21:03:07 where do you usually place your page directory/table? 21:03:12 or directories/tables 21:03:14 in memory I mean 21:03:22 what address do you guys use? 21:04:07 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/brix-os/MEMORY-MAP?rev=1.2&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup 21:04:09 --- quit: keyhack () 21:05:14 pretty low eh hehe 21:05:56 thanks btw 21:06:06 np 21:06:31 and dont forget to map the pd and pts 21:06:49 pts ? 21:06:52 page table.. 21:06:57 ya 21:07:01 page tables? 21:07:03 ohh 21:07:03 yes 21:07:10 how do you mean by map? 21:07:16 ohh you mean allocate space for them too 21:07:22 so they can be paged 21:07:23 add pd address to last page table entry 21:07:26 er 21:07:30 add pd address to last page dir entry 21:07:34 no 21:07:46 pd has 1024 entries for page tables 21:07:54 store the pd address in the last entry 21:08:00 as does pt for pages 21:08:04 u can pick what entry, i used the last 21:08:14 and what does that help with? 21:08:24 it automagically maps all page tables 21:08:45 even the ones u havent created yet 21:08:58 ahh, k 21:09:01 I'll do that then 21:09:18 once I map my first pde :) 21:09:22 0xffc00000 4meg page tables 21:09:43 speed demon 21:11:58 --- nick: EtherNet- -> EtherNet 21:12:16 I won't be using vm so I won't need all page tables really 21:12:33 i dont use vm 21:13:47 paging has other uses 21:16:00 how can a 20bit value point to the location of a page table? 21:16:31 eh? 21:16:37 oh 21:16:55 20bit shifted left 12bits == 32bit address on a 4k boundary 21:17:06 ahh, ok, thanks 21:17:18 the 12 flag bits are all masked 21:17:27 yeah 21:21:03 so 201000 (2mb = pd, 2mb+4096 bytes = pt) would be 201 21:22:29 --- join: trans (aaetrp@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 21:42:33 --- join: gfafgawrg (~gfafgawrg@213-35-250-183-dsl.kvm.estpak.ee) joined #osdev 21:46:55 --- quit: Matzon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:56:08 --- join: wonbear (~wonbear19@210.107.236.66) joined #osdev 22:00:51 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:11:34 --- join: Mathis (Mathis@pD9EAA322.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 22:11:34 --- quit: cuebol (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:11:47 hi 22:20:48 hrm 22:21:19 "BS in early childhood development" wtf kinda degree is that? 22:21:59 all kigs get alot of bs in their early development :) 22:28:44 --- join: Kincaid (kincaid@pD9E7EAD4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 22:30:30 hi 22:33:39 air: I think it's supposed to be like psychology of children.. but really mean "Kindergarten teacher" 22:40:59 --- quit: I440r_ () 22:41:45 ya, she's gonna be a teacher 22:47:55 --- quit: petrusss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:58:57 --- quit: Mathis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:03:29 --- quit: msa_ ("leaving") 23:04:12 --- join: masi (~masi@APuteaux-115-1-2-169.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 23:22:40 --- join: trans (ygxddy@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 23:32:33 --- nick: jwesley -> jwesley-sleep 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/03.09.01