00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/03.09.17 00:07:42 --- join: blah2321 (hvedvv@12-208-222-49.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 00:07:53 --- part: blah2321 left #osdev 00:44:25 --- join: idle (~idle@ppp-208-27-0-49.kinex.net) joined #osdev 00:52:57 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:57:49 blah 01:04:53 --- join: gab (~gab@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 01:13:59 --- quit: EtherNet (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 01:20:00 --- quit: CLxyz () 01:27:53 --- join: masi_ (~masi@APuteaux-115-1-16-89.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 01:28:41 --- quit: masi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:31:07 --- join: pengo (xtofu@p960-tnt2.mel.ihug.com.au) joined #osdev 02:07:58 --- join: trans (reizgy@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:11:20 --- quit: kdehl ("Over and out!") 03:00:28 heya ppls 03:00:49 oh dear.. 03:00:53 lol 03:01:03 * mors grins at kye 03:01:39 nice to see you... how's your day been :) 03:01:49 * kyelewis smiles in a somehow evil way 03:01:54 yeah, it feels nice to see ya too.. 03:02:01 day has been fine. nothing special 03:02:11 except that if i go into non-tech rooms, i go mad 03:02:22 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:02:23 hmm 03:02:26 trying to get used to their talks about life.. 03:02:27 so nothing out of the ordinary then 03:02:34 nah 03:02:36 yours? 03:15:57 --- nick: cockmaster-away -> cookin 03:16:15 not much happening today 03:16:31 but soon 2 weeks of school holidays coming up 03:16:37 bound to be exciting, i'm sure 03:44:22 --- join: EtherNet (~ethernet@host44.200-45-180.telecom.net.ar) joined #osdev 03:46:57 fun 04:06:09 --- quit: EtherNet (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:07:02 --- join: EtherNet (~ethernet@host44.200-45-180.telecom.net.ar) joined #osdev 04:23:57 --- join: trans (tcvcfm@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 05:08:37 --- quit: kyelewis ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 05:13:55 --- join: kernel-panic_ (rewt@ANice-205-1-5-245.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 05:17:45 --- quit: kernel-panic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:21:57 --- join: eniac_ (~eniac@210-83.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 05:22:56 --- nick: kernel-panic_ -> kernel-panic 05:26:45 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:33:20 --- quit: eniac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:41:53 --- join: e9i (~e9o@c-984272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 06:03:33 --- quit: e9i () 06:11:36 --- quit: pengo ("I could develop a system that would make money obsolete, but it would only make me rich") 06:33:13 --- quit: krux (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:35:31 --- join: trans (kqkjfp@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 06:44:34 --- quit: file[wifi] (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:47:55 üpl 06:47:58 äö#äqöw 06:47:58 asdasdasd 06:49:47 asdasfas 06:50:41 hey lynx 06:50:58 , petrusss 06:53:56 hey lodda 07:06:31 oi 07:07:03 --- join: mrMister (~andri@ti122110a080-5333.bb.online.no) joined #osdev 07:24:20 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:35:34 --- quit: Hirogen2 (Connection timed out) 08:21:20 ahoy 08:22:57 --- quit: cookin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:35:06 --- join: wl (philipp@pD954ECC6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 08:38:15 --- join: gianluca (1000@ppp-26-138.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 08:40:24 --- join: Matzon (Mazon@80.197.154.22) joined #osdev 08:45:35 --- quit: jwesley-work ("leaving") 08:49:19 --- join: jwesley-work (~jwesley@tkgeisel.com) joined #osdev 08:49:38 --- join: SIS-1650-01 (~sis@as11-2-1.rny.s.bonet.se) joined #osdev 08:54:02 --- join: trans (alxjhy@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 09:05:28 hi 09:07:54 hi debug 09:08:00 yo 09:08:10 ahoy hoy 09:09:21 ahoy and a bucket of rum! 09:09:27 I likes bucket... 09:10:28 bucket of butter 09:13:36 bucket of beer. 09:13:52 I i want is a bucket of beer and a horny fucking woman who know how to steer. 09:13:57 All I* 09:15:57 steer the beer on a deer with no fear 09:16:49 hehe 09:19:29 yarg 09:19:37 I'm soooo tired, but I will prevail! 09:19:45 I will be able to get up 09:20:14 geist: amfetamin would help :P 09:20:23 amphetamine :p 09:20:36 idle: spelled "amfetamin" in .is :) 09:20:44 ah 09:20:58 kinda forgot I was writeing english prolly ... 09:21:32 * thib is just going to make some coffee.... 09:22:03 hmm 09:22:20 thib, would you have some amfetamin recipes ;) 09:22:57 caffienne is doing it's work 09:23:29 i need something stronger then caffiene 09:23:34 industrial strength 09:23:39 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:24:37 idle: Huuhhh no ... 09:27:27 * debug needs physical caffeine as well 09:27:43 and then a bike trip 09:27:43 hmm? 09:28:13 * gianluca got too much caffeine today :/ 09:28:37 gianluca: there is no such thing as "too much caffiene" 09:29:03 yes there is, try overdosing on those caffine pills 09:29:16 idle: been there done that ;) 09:29:19 :p 09:29:25 well the "CAFFEINE_TOOMUCH" watermark is set when you start feeling your heard too quick to effectively pump the blood 09:29:31 i am over that watermark. 09:29:50 well, i am not going to die, don't worry 09:29:52 :) 09:29:55 Damn. 09:29:57 ;) 09:30:13 the first live Death on irc maybe 09:30:20 could make this channel famous 09:30:32 gianluca: nope not the first 09:30:51 gianluca: there was this video on the net with this dude overdozing on drugs ( talking on irc + a webcam ) 09:31:33 oh damn. youcan't do anything new recently... 09:31:45 You can't do anything new whatsoever. 09:31:49 everything has already been done 09:31:54 Newsworthy perhaps, but not new. 09:32:28 eww, dying while on irc 09:32:29 thib, you have a copy of that ? 09:32:32 that'd be super lame 09:32:48 idle: nope 09:33:09 geist: yeah ;) 09:33:19 maybe i should search for: irc death avi mpg 09:33:21 heh 09:33:34 or as they say here in norcal: 'that'd be hella lame' 09:34:37 norcal ? 09:34:54 north california? 09:35:09 yep 09:35:17 there's norcal and socal 09:35:20 geist: Going to vote for Arnold ? 09:35:31 * thib would vote for Arnold. 09:35:46 thib: argh! 09:35:48 nah, he's republican and a neanderthol 09:35:52 isnt it set back until marh now 09:35:55 *march 09:36:10 geist: fsckit, he´s cool ;) 09:36:28 though grey davis aint the best either 09:36:30 And like dennis miller said has done 2 thing and become the best in both of them... 09:36:58 but CA government is just screwed up no matter what you do 09:37:14 Remove the "CA", and you have it right. 09:37:23 Government is a mess... 09:37:34 i dont know the numbers, but I've heard that CA has like the 8th largest economy in the world 09:37:38 ahead of most countries 09:37:44 hah! 09:37:50 and it's government is totally fucked 09:38:04 currently it would be the last 8th 09:39:15 I dunno, it's still pretty strong 09:39:27 but yeah, economy is pretty depressed right now 09:41:11 there was a fake news about torvalds being candidate in california :-) 09:43:42 --- join: kdehl (~madman@as3-2-3.sgp.lk.bonet.se) joined #osdev 09:46:08 heh 09:46:10 that'd be interesting 09:46:17 not sure if he's a citizen though 09:46:23 probably on a green card 09:47:07 Pretty unlikely too; he doesn't care about anything involving politics. :> 09:47:49 going. bye all 09:48:41 --- quit: gianluca ("Client exiting") 09:57:25 --- join: Hirogen2 (jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de) joined #osdev 10:09:16 --- join: e9i (~e9o@c-b64272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 10:11:35 --- quit: SIS-1650-01 (Remote closed the connection) 10:31:58 --- join: SIS-1650-01 (~sis@as11-2-1.rny.s.bonet.se) joined #osdev 10:37:26 --- join: redb1ue (star@ppp053.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 10:37:56 --- nick: redb1ue -> redblue 10:38:05 --- quit: Divine ("[BX] Mr. T uses BitchX. Shouldn't you, SUCKAH?") 10:43:27 --- join: gianluca (1000@ppp-164-137.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 10:47:22 --- quit: idle (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:54:12 --- join: trans (rdenud@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 11:02:17 --- part: e9i left #osdev 11:05:35 --- join: cookin (~jrydberg@h55x405.delphi.afb.lu.se) joined #osdev 11:06:57 --- quit: thib (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:10:34 --- join: xcp (~e9o@c-b64272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 11:15:49 --- join: dax (dax@81.11.142.215) joined #osdev 11:17:39 --- join: _Peter_ (pvincent@ppp2-39.infoteck.qc.ca) joined #osdev 11:25:13 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 11:37:44 --- quit: eniac_ ("Lost terminal") 11:42:43 --- join: sqrt2 (~andri@ti122110a080-5333.bb.online.no) joined #osdev 11:42:43 --- quit: mrMister (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:43:08 --- nick: sqrt2 -> mrMister 11:48:44 --- quit: _Peter_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:49:25 --- quit: gab ("leaving") 11:49:58 --- quit: Matzon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:50:11 --- join: gab (~prfalken@gaia.chx-labs.org) joined #osdev 11:53:51 --- quit: gianluca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:54:27 --- join: file[wifi] (~file@mctn1-6579.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 11:57:05 --- nick: HeavyJoost_ -> HeavyJoost 12:09:31 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.161) joined #osdev 12:12:43 --- join: ee324 (~gsg@d-zg10-64.net4u.hr) joined #osdev 12:15:09 --- quit: revanthn () 12:19:10 --- join: DRF (~Daniel@host217-42-31-130.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) joined #osdev 12:19:17 --- join: eniac (~eniac@210-83.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 12:20:42 --- join: krux (~krux@66.14.118.85) joined #osdev 12:24:45 --- quit: eniac ("Lost terminal") 12:35:50 --- quit: ee324 (Client Quit) 12:38:19 --- join: idle (~idle@ppp-208-27-0-49.kinex.net) joined #osdev 12:58:01 --- quit: DRF ("Leaving") 13:00:34 Current time: 33:89:20 13:00:44 Looks like I've missed something.. :) 13:01:14 lol 13:01:30 --- join: Plasma (~Plasma@dialup-67.31.206.84.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 13:05:09 what planet do you keep time for 13:05:26 --- part: Plasma left #osdev 13:05:29 My favourite imaginary planet with >24 hrs / day 13:05:45 And at least 90mins / hr 13:05:47 does it have any moons 13:06:00 All taken, I'm sorry. 13:06:04 :\ 13:06:17 hi 13:06:56 sup debug 13:07:09 nothing much 13:07:17 out8(0x70,0); secs = in8(0x71); <-- Correct RTC reading of "actual seconds", right ? 13:07:22 idle: you're supposed to be idling :) 13:07:34 * idle returns to caller idle() 13:08:11 I hope for gods sake that every is busy coding right now 13:09:21 Slowcoder, http://dev.remo.lt/osdev/index.php?id=10 13:09:31 --- quit: jwesley-work ("leaving") 13:09:32 s/every/everyone/ 13:09:37 * debug shouldn't type when he's tired 13:09:56 get via voice 13:10:13 idle: Looks right.. 13:10:33 ya.. 13:17:37 --- join: Matzon (Mazon@80.197.154.22) joined #osdev 13:21:18 --- quit: dax (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:25:03 --- join: wl_ (philipp@pD954EA5B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 13:30:30 --- join: gianluca (1000@ppp-145-135.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 13:30:49 hi 13:35:50 --- join: air (~brand@12-210-160-198.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:36:38 --- quit: wl_ ("Liebe ist eine Intimrasur. (American Pie)") 13:39:18 --- join: talin (~talin@30.80-202-87.nextgentel.com) joined #osdev 13:44:30 --- quit: air (Remote closed the connection) 13:44:37 --- join: air (~brand@12-210-160-198.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:45:28 --- join: air- (~brand@12-210-160-198.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:45:49 --- quit: wl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:48:01 --- quit: air- (Client Quit) 13:48:08 --- join: air- (~brand@12-210-160-198.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:49:44 --- join: newbs (~tumbler@ts1-illavl287.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 13:49:53 --- quit: air- (Client Quit) 13:49:58 --- join: air- (~brand@12-210-160-198.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 13:50:38 --- quit: air- (Client Quit) 13:51:15 oops, damn auto-joining clients :) 13:51:43 how goes osdev? 13:52:12 im doing fine and you? 13:55:19 --- quit: gianluca (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:56:07 im doing as fine as anyone who is rewriting the internals of a compiler could be 13:56:54 --- join: jwesley-work (~jwesley@tkgeisel.com) joined #osdev 13:57:56 sounds fun =) 13:58:46 ive just gotten into osdev recently my only plans for the week is enable the a20 line =) 13:58:58 it was fun the first time, now after this many rewrites its just tedious 13:59:10 :) 13:59:54 21 lines of asm code 13:59:57 and yer done 14:00:44 heh 14:00:47 thats including 3 labels so its only 18 instructions 14:00:52 --- join: _Peter_ (pvincent@ppp3-41.infoteck.qc.ca) joined #osdev 14:01:36 want the code? 14:01:46 --- quit: SIS-1650-01 (Remote closed the connection) 14:01:59 no im trying to do this stuff on my own =) 14:02:05 pfft 14:02:14 this isnt something u wanna be doing 14:02:25 whys that? 14:03:00 this is kinda like (mov eax cr0) (or al 1) (mov cr0 eax) 14:03:28 ok 14:03:31 its something u just copy&paste into yer code and move along 14:05:35 did you make your boot sector 2 step? 14:07:36 2 stage? 14:07:38 yes 14:10:16 --- quit: mrMister ("gone") 14:13:28 newbs: just get it working and move on 14:14:01 does it matter if i write my OS using C or C++? which is preferable? 14:14:02 dont worry about learning all the details 14:14:17 talin: most folks do it in C if you're going to use c/c++ 14:14:21 talin: crush would be the best choice : 14:14:23 :) 14:14:23 * talin nods 14:14:25 crush? 14:14:27 c++ is a little tougher to get the basics working 14:14:35 talin: it's the language air is writing 14:14:45 if it was ever finished and working it might be an option 14:14:45 aha 14:14:50 * talin nods 14:15:06 too bad i have to waste time going to school and such 14:15:07 nah 14:15:19 basically if you know enough about os design and c++ then it wouldn't be a question to ask 14:15:20 it would only be an option if u were writing an OS like brix 14:15:21 or i could do something fun, like code 14:15:36 you'd be able to see the potential problems and see in advance 14:15:58 air: damnit, quit trying to hijack every goddamn n00b question that comes along 14:16:11 <_Peter_> hehe 14:16:14 we all know you're working on air/brix, we all know it's the best thing ever 14:16:23 crush/brix 14:17:24 sorry Mr. PMS :) 14:19:52 damn right 14:24:04 <_Peter_> air, i'm curious about something: 'Some libraries could force a system-wide recompile' : Will this be something that can be done easily by an end-user for example? 14:24:35 <_Peter_> (BRiX->Info->Architecture->Libraries) 14:24:55 <_Peter_> err 14:25:08 <_Peter_> (BRiX->Info->Concepts->Architecture->Libraries) 14:26:33 yes 14:26:48 I thought that would happen automatically or something 14:26:54 yup 14:30:22 <_Peter_> Interesting. 14:37:32 <_Peter_> hmm that's brilliant.. by using a safe language there's no null check/etc/etc in the kernel so that speeds up execution 14:38:12 that depends 14:38:32 crush supports null-checked and never-null pointers 14:38:36 <_Peter_> ah 14:38:51 the compiler automatically checks the null-checked pointers 14:39:12 * _Peter_ should read more before talking 14:40:43 but the never-null pointers will never be null and would be faster, but if a C programmer knew a pointer would never be null he would not check it so the equivelant crush code would not be any faster 14:46:07 --- quit: xcp () 14:48:21 --- join: jsr (www@du-14-241.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 14:53:48 --- join: gianluca (1000@ppp-63-137.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 14:54:23 --- quit: Matzon () 14:55:10 --- join: [Mathis] (anyone@pD9EAAD80.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 14:55:23 <[Mathis]> hi 14:57:07 --- quit: lynx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:59:16 --- join: lynx (~lodsb@pD9544B80.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 15:00:53 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 15:04:58 --- quit: _Peter_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:05:52 --- quit: gianluca (Nick collision from services.) 15:06:05 --- join: gianluca (1000@ppp-157-135.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 15:20:00 sup 15:20:01 --- quit: thib (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:22:41 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 15:37:36 --- join: wcstok (strtok_r@dialup-67.28.58.87.Dial1.Omaha1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 15:38:06 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:53:30 --- part: thib left #osdev 15:53:34 --- join: thib (~thib@bofh.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 16:03:21 --- quit: [Mathis] ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 16:05:54 --- quit: jsr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:07:20 http://dose.se/davids_brud.jpg <=- My new girlfriend. 16:10:11 * kdehl dreams on... 16:10:29 kdehl 16:10:35 indeed. 16:10:57 she doesn't look swedish 16:11:06 kdehl, do you not have anything better to do 16:11:07 debug: So? :) 16:11:10 kdehl: :) 16:11:32 idle: Like what? 16:11:35 coding 16:11:41 Of course. :) 16:11:41 yeap 16:11:53 Hrrm.. 16:12:11 I have to set up a new box before I can continue. My laptop's screen broke... 16:12:32 So I'm working on a diskless FreeBSD box. Completely silent. No moving parts. :) 16:13:05 no PSU fan? 16:13:45 What's PSU? 16:13:50 Power Supply? 16:13:58 yes 16:14:04 mmm granola bars 16:14:05 Nope. I put a screw driver in it, so it's silent too. :) 16:14:25 kdehl: ehhh, there is a REASON for that fan :) 16:14:27 good 16:14:27 It's a via C3-1GHz, so the CPU doesn't need a fan either. 16:14:38 thib: I haven't found that reason yet. :) 16:14:42 * debug would like to have such a cpu... 16:14:45 I can always dream 16:14:59 * thib has 5 comps running in here and about ~20 fans and i´m not complaining ;) 16:15:01 debug: They're cheap. 16:15:13 kdehl: if you have money, then everything is cheap 16:15:16 Only prop is the heat generated from them ( kinda too hot in my room ;) 16:15:31 yep, I've definitely found that quieter computers are da bomb 16:15:39 at some time in my life it didn't bug me 16:15:40 now it does 16:15:52 debug: Right. I wound't be able to buy it now. I have bought parts for that computer for several months. Bought the motherboard a few weeks ago. 16:16:10 thib: How the phuch can you sleep there? 16:16:18 kdehl: by closing my eyes... 16:16:25 I hate sleeping when it's hot 16:16:45 it was kind of hot here this last weekend, had to get out the fans 16:16:50 the balconys are in my room ( or the door to them ) so it´s always open 16:16:54 thib: Ah. I wish I could do that. That's why I needed this computer to be completely silent, I don't want to turn it off. 16:16:55 does via c3 1ghz support SMP? 16:17:01 the current room temp is around 17°C 16:17:03 we can still open up our windows on my floor, but most other floors have plastics in front of the windows, so no fresh air for them 16:17:06 gianluca: I'm sure it doesn't 16:17:10 ah.. 16:17:25 damn. 16:17:31 gianluca: it probably doesn't support high-performance, either 16:17:58 for the quiet computer I use my pegasos board 16:18:03 gianluca: I think so, yes. VIA has a list of officially supported motherboards, and I found at least one that was dual. 16:18:08 doesn't make much heat, the g3 just has a tiny little heat sink on it 16:18:12 konundrum: Go to sleep, or to the store to buy some sweets ? 16:18:34 and for the most part it out performs my g4 866 laptop 16:18:46 Slowcoder, did you solve the sec bug 16:19:04 idle: Nope.. All code says I'm doing it right.. 16:19:27 :\ 16:19:29 idle: Right now, I'm assuming that I've f*cked up the RTC during boot. 16:19:40 Who needs computer power anyways? I can't think of anything that would _require_ more than about a P500 for anything that I do. And no, I don't play games. 16:19:40 g4 866 laptop...! :-) 16:20:02 * thib wants a dual 2GHz G5 16:20:08 kdehl: Compiling XFree86? Or compiling entire distributions.. 16:20:12 * kdehl wants a dual 386 board 16:20:23 yeah, and the g4 laptop is super hot 16:20:33 kdehl: vector calculations 16:20:47 kdehl: Signal analysis 16:20:56 kdehl: you do no that grahpics is used for more then just computer games;) 16:20:56 Slowcoder: Yes, of course it's nicer when things are done quickly, but it doesn't require more than 500Mhz. 16:21:09 kdehl: Ehhh *slap* :D 16:21:20 I could live with it. 16:21:23 kdehl: Depends on how old you are.. If you're >50, you might risk dying before it's done. 16:21:29 kdehl: hmm you could say this to people who made the earth simulator :-) 16:21:30 hehe 16:21:33 hehe :) 16:21:46 they can simulate eartquakes with 500mhz! 16:21:48 right :-) 16:21:54 gianluca: Yup. Tell them to buy a VIA C3 instead. :) 16:22:13 yep, i tried to see it, but i couldn't see it :'( 16:22:21 Anyone know the size of the L1/L2 cache on the C3-CPUs ? 16:22:24 Heh, actually that one and my laptop are the fastest computers I've got. 16:23:45 * kdehl invites elvstone 16:24:18 Food damnit! 16:25:21 --- join: elvstone (~elvis@as3-2-3.sgp.lk.bonet.se) joined #osdev 16:25:27 hi mr elvstone 16:25:42 --- join: ed8150 (~edward@pool-151-196-38-51.balt.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 16:25:48 hey all 16:28:56 good day mr debug. 16:36:13 --- quit: ed8150 (Remote closed the connection) 16:36:30 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:36:41 --- quit: krux (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:39:50 --- join: krux (~krux@66.14.118.85) joined #osdev 16:52:57 anyone know how to go back to menu when using bochs's term driver? 17:06:10 --- join: trans (fhkkbg@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 17:13:43 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FFC7F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 17:32:15 night people 17:32:17 --- quit: gianluca ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 17:33:08 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 17:42:46 gasp 17:52:03 *yawn* 17:53:34 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-009txhousP0277.dialsprint.net) joined #osdev 18:02:40 --- quit: wcstok () 18:04:05 --- join: rigamonk (~patrick@206.40.127.214) joined #osdev 18:09:54 --- part: rigamonk left #osdev 18:12:53 --- quit: elvstone (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:15:07 --- quit: file[wifi] (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18:17:20 --- join: file[wifi] (~file@mctn1-6492.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 18:19:56 Damn, everybody's quiet tonight 18:26:43 wtf .. 18:26:44 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3627558259&category=182 18:27:51 It's worth a cent to make him burn it to a CD and ship it to norway.. :) 18:28:24 hah! 18:33:32 maybe he is just tryin to get to 50 ratings 18:38:48 --- join: elvstone (~elvis@as3-2-3.sgp.lk.bonet.se) joined #osdev 18:59:48 --- quit: newbs (Client Quit) 19:14:20 --- join: ed8150 (~ed@pool-151-196-37-72.balt.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 19:14:24 hey all 19:22:52 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:28:10 --- quit: kdehl ("Over and out!") 19:29:39 --- join: kdehl (~kdehl@as3-2-3.sgp.lk.bonet.se) joined #osdev 19:38:56 --- quit: ed8150 () 19:58:57 --- join: CLxyz (CLxyz@00-01-03-d2-a4-07.bconnected.net) joined #osdev 20:07:53 --- join: _Peter_ (pvincent@ppp2-23.infoteck.qc.ca) joined #osdev 20:28:38 --- quit: _Peter_ () 20:47:45 hrm 20:47:56 isnt skyos more mature than atheos? 20:48:57 cuz atheos has its own category in the osnews forums and skyos is listed under "really alternative" category 20:59:52 --- join: trans (vgpnjc@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 21:00:54 --- join: cory` (~cory@cmchamblin1s1.resnet.semo.edu) joined #osdev 21:33:26 --- quit: cory` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:48:20 --- join: Matzon (Mazon@80.197.154.22) joined #osdev 21:50:43 well, at the time that eugenia started osnews a few years ago, it was the other way 21:50:52 atheos had a ton of potential, kurt hadn't stopped working on it then 21:50:52 hi 21:51:00 hi debug 21:51:27 how's coding? 21:51:39 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:51:40 well, just got home, no coding yet 21:53:20 * debug drinks his morning coffee 21:53:27 so no coding here either 21:56:26 --- join: x-256 (asdfdsasda@212.205.255.133) joined #osdev 21:56:37 hi 21:57:02 hello 21:58:29 if I tell you: i'm sick of computers and the Von Neumman architecture, sick of having to go over everylittle detail of resource management to get a functional OS to do something for me, and I just want to take a look at something new and different (in computers, architecture and OS design), what would you suggest for me to look at ? 21:58:58 even though linux has saved me from going insane, it just can't help me out any more. Everything is just getting too complex i think 21:59:39 or i'm loosing it... anyhow, is there anything being developed (hardware and/or software) that's trying to combat this insanely out of control complexity that's plaguing the field of computers today? 22:00:00 no 22:00:54 :( 22:01:11 nothing that sounds "insane" or "stupid" or never been tried before ? 22:02:31 I guess that if it was possible to remove a lot of complexity in the computing field as it appears today, it would already have been done 22:02:37 --- quit: masi_ (Connection timed out) 22:05:21 i don't think so for 2 reasons: 1) certain "break throughs" just won't appear until they will (or like J.C. would say: when it's done). 2) if we think from inside the orchard (today's computing world), then we cannot think differently (at least not that much as is required to think "radically"). Meaning: if I want to implement some kind of driver/kernel comm. code, then system calls is the first thing that will come to mind. Later on I might thi 22:05:22 nk of passing comm. by messages, and so on and so forth 22:05:25 no, I just dont know. it's a totally open ended questions 22:05:50 read around, see about research projects 22:06:01 that's where all the new stuff will be happening, in academia 22:06:11 So, I think sometimes we're just limited by the world we live in. That's where I'm at. I can't see beyond. And I'm really frustrated, and that's why I want to look at something "different", anything differeting in fact. So i'm searching.. and here I am 22:06:24 geist: yes, i've been googling for a few hours 22:06:38 I'm sure there are better ways than that, though i dont know em 22:06:49 geist: hit Patterson's projects a few times ... but his IRAM stuff isn't all that from what I read. I dunno, hope i'm wrong 22:07:11 geist: yeah me either :( Well if you think of anything of note, letme know :) 22:07:50 Other than that, can you tell me a little about this channel? I've actually never been here before. Usually at #kernelnewbies ... but is this Linux-centric or just general OS development 22:08:45 general os development 22:08:51 yep 22:09:01 lots of us are working on projects, look at some of the links in the topic 22:09:13 some are more out there than others 22:09:28 many links. Which should I visit first you think ? 22:09:50 I dunno, I can't see the links from here 22:10:05 I dont look at em much myself, I just hack code 22:11:24 geist: what projects do you work on ? 22:11:42 newos 22:11:44 newos.sf.net 22:11:57 i'll check that 22:11:59 been hacking on it for a few years 22:12:14 it's for the most part a traditional kernel, but I think relatively advanced and clean 22:12:16 if you don't mind: tell me in a couple sentences what's it all about ? 22:12:26 I took my experience working at Be on the BeOS and started it 22:12:38 I use it to test out ideas and have some fun, nothing more 22:12:55 reading the pages.. brb 22:13:34 interesting 22:13:49 explain me with ur own words: clean design .. how do you define it, what are you aiming at ? 22:13:54 once agian, if you don't mind 22:14:00 i'm genuinly interested to hear 22:14:11 just not a big pile of crap, like most hobby oses out there 22:14:23 I'm trying to write it to production quality 22:14:31 that's it 22:16:04 the features you list are "complete" ? 22:16:24 sure 22:16:37 wow 22:16:47 that's pretty complete feature list for a modern os 22:16:58 though that list I'm sure is out of date. I'm not really into web page maintenance 22:17:14 liek since then I ported it to ppc, which I'm sure isn't up to date 22:17:23 heh 22:17:29 yeah, ppc isn't listed 22:17:32 just x86 + sh 22:17:44 yeah 22:18:14 I'm a huge fan of cross-platform development. it makes it much more challenging to design a system that can be ported easily without sacrificing much efficiency 22:18:26 you have to carefully partition functionality 22:18:56 yes, i agree 22:20:00 newos, would it be categorized as a microkernel or monolithic, or hybrid .. or what ? 22:20:09 modular monolith 22:20:39 very similar in architecture to beos 22:20:46 since I was working there when I started hacking it 22:20:57 i see 22:21:26 which is why the openbeos project is using it as their kernel 22:21:29 is newos/beos using system calls ? 22:21:39 sure 22:21:59 i think i'd heard of openbeos before.. didn't know what you just mentioned.. interesting 22:23:01 geist: what do you see as interesting directions for OS development ... what are the next "big" features that you see people working towards ? 22:23:21 nothign particularly interesting kernel wise 22:23:33 that's done, it's established, no need to focus there 22:23:38 so this is it? the end of the road for kernel design ? 22:23:44 then, where do we focus ? 22:23:52 user stuff 22:24:03 libc 22:24:04 for the most part the mechanisms are in place. obviously vm design needs to deal with bigger memory, and features will be needed in kernel lang 22:24:21 jwesley: I think he means for os design in general 22:24:26 ahh 22:24:31 --- join: redb1ue (star@ppp044.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 22:24:39 jwesley: but that should ne be... ah, he got me first 22:25:05 geist: do you have a dedicated io scheduler .. how do you handle io dispatching in newos ? 22:25:05 I'm not a thinker, I'm a doer. I dont focus too much on out there stuff 22:25:20 no I dont, there isn't a lot of io flying around in newos 22:25:27 that's something I'm going to have to deal with soon 22:25:45 and there certainly isn't a centralized io scheduler 22:25:57 geist: ok, but surely you think sometimes, right before you implement, or while you're doing, you think: oh-oh this no good, that other might be better, or maybe in a few days, after i finish this, i try this other idea i have in the "back of my mind". I want to hear those "back in my mind" ideas basically ;) 22:26:22 x-256: oh you bet, but I'm talking about really out there ideas, like no threads or whatnot 22:26:29 geist: ok. i can see how necessity will bring forth development. pretty typical ;) 22:26:46 I dont worry about that too much, I'm pretty much a 'keep the core os simple, do the fun stuff on top' 22:26:53 geist: i didn't catch that w/ threads.. explain ? 22:27:12 x-256: I dont know either, I mean I'm not into really out there ideas that lots of folks here are into 22:27:19 really alternate designs, that's not my cup of tea 22:27:29 i c 22:27:30 that was an example 22:27:40 who should I ask you think, coz I just like to explore every side 22:27:56 ask air about brix/crush :) 22:28:17 better yet, read his page 22:28:24 yeah 22:28:31 he has a lot of stuff written about his ideas 22:28:48 geist: also, i'd like to ask, the preemtibility of the kernel, you're doing w/ spin locking? How fine grained/coarse is it, (if youre doing it this way) and was it trial + error, or have you profiled sections to see where to break the spin locks ? 22:28:56 jwesley: ok thx 22:29:05 x-256: it's very finely grained 22:29:07 cool, which page is that ? 22:29:10 very reentrant 22:29:32 geist: can you gimme some detail about how you went around doing it so, and your methodology ? 22:29:43 i did that by writing it that way from the get go, I try to write it like any high performance multithreaded app, not holding locks to long, etc 22:30:24 I look for potential contention and deal with it by locking around it, but not longer than I have to 22:30:37 and then stress test the heck out of it, using lots of asserts to try to catch problems 22:30:38 geist: ok. without profiling, but rather w/ intuition correct ? 22:30:43 right 22:30:47 geist: gotcha 22:31:02 but also, I dont really get into optimizing like crazy. I'm very much a fan of design before optimization 22:31:10 geist: you follow other OS developments? 22:31:20 geist: i c 22:31:26 there are lots of places where local optimizations will help, and I try to leave it open to that, but I always go for algorithmic optimizations before local 22:31:33 local optimizations I can do later 22:31:33 jwesley: know the pages for air brix/crush thing you mentioned ? 22:31:40 see topic 22:31:45 geist: ok 22:32:06 no I dont follow too many of them 22:32:10 this one : http://brix-os.sf.net/libary 22:32:15 yep 22:32:16 --- quit: debug (Remote closed the connection) 22:32:20 ok 22:32:27 I've watched openbeos obviously, and the *bsds 22:32:41 and used to watch atheos some, but dev on that pretty much stopped 22:32:44 ok 22:32:49 has it ? 22:33:01 most of the other ones I arne't particularly impressed with the implementation 22:33:11 yeah, Kurt stopped working on atheos a year or so ago 22:33:34 some guys forked it and call the new project syllable, but they dont seem to be making much really major design progress 22:33:41 though I haven't looked at that in a while 22:33:54 dragonflybsd looks interesting to me... a branch from freeBSD 22:34:12 jwesley: what's the difference/their aim in a few words ? 22:34:14 --- quit: I440r () 22:34:29 geist: which OS other than your own has captured your intereste the most ? 22:34:54 --- join: redblu3 (~star@ppp049.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 22:35:23 well, obviously beos did, but that was years ago 22:35:29 caught my interest enough that I went to work there 22:35:49 after that I got kind of burned by the concept of really developing a full desktop replacement 22:36:07 as far as relative cleanliness of design, I'm a big fan of solaris and freebsd 22:36:30 my servers are all freebsd, but that's about it. I'm not really excited about them, they're just workhorse unixes 22:36:39 but if I feel the need to poke around in kernel code, it's usually freebsd 22:36:39 x-256: I can't really put it into a few words....they are rework major portions of freeBSD.. I don't think they liked the direction that 5.x took... http://www.dragonflybsd.org/Main/ 22:37:21 jwesley: ok thnkx, i'll check i tout 22:37:38 geist: you were working on the desktop environment for BeOS ? 22:37:55 I did mostly kernel work 22:37:59 filesystems specifically 22:38:43 ok, you just mean the general work that was being done was the desktop replacement 22:39:08 guess you never messed with beos 22:39:31 Can u explain this from Brix pages: All code is compiled locally with a single language, binary code can not be installed ---> does "locally" mean JIT inside the kernel ? 22:39:41 nope, ask air 22:40:33 geist: not in the low-level way no. I got the free version that was out, installed it, played with it a bit, but nothing more than that Didn't have the software that i used on it, and typically (which is ALWAYS a shame) the lack of hardware support :( 22:41:01 heh, i wrote the code that let it run out of the FAT/NTFS/ext2 partition 22:41:06 I was quite proud of that 22:41:33 geist: cool ;) it really made it easy for me to try it out 22:41:48 cool.. geist.. I didn't know that.. 22:42:14 yeah, it was pretty slick 22:42:15 geist: at that point in time I wouldn't have gone all the way to repartition + install ... coz i did it in a few mins on my girlfriends laptop ... so that's how i got to "get in touch w/ BeOS" for the first time ;) 22:42:46 yeah, the running out of a file in another filesystem was much more than a recursive mount 22:43:20 heh 22:44:16 --- join: eniac (~eniac@210-83.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 22:46:28 --- quit: redb1ue (Connection timed out) 22:47:30 this Brix/Crush thing is rather radical for me ... meaning i haven't heard of similar 22:47:32 it's interesting 22:56:16 --- nick: redblu3 -> redblue 23:01:03 --- join: trans (hwudne@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 23:06:16 --- quit: idle (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 23:14:14 --- quit: mors (Remote closed the connection) 23:15:24 --- join: mors (~skywalker@64.104.136.140) joined #osdev 23:21:50 --- quit: petrusss (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:51:58 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:56:15 blargh 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/03.09.17