00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/03.10.03 00:08:12 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 00:17:06 --- join: debug (~debug@tab.csbnet.se) joined #osdev 00:50:15 oops. this had been on all night. Anyway - hi! 00:51:31 hi 00:52:34 --- join: trans (abfhyu@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 01:04:45 --- quit: CrayT3E (Remote closed the connection) 01:05:34 --- join: Ninja_KtS (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 01:05:36 heyas 01:06:03 yo 01:06:41 --- join: CrayT3E (~CrayT3E@195.134.81.191) joined #osdev 01:07:29 heya 01:08:08 interesting that the half-life 2 source code was apparently leaked 01:08:27 although old code, still interesting 01:11:17 a month old? 01:13:49 still, interesting that it was leaked - most likely bad if people who have it do too much with it 01:22:45 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:25:03 --- nick: Ninja_KtS -> kyelewis 01:25:16 works better when i change my nick to something most of you can recognise :) 01:25:26 --- join: Apophis (~kn64@ppp193-115.lns1.syd3.internode.on.net) joined #osdev 01:32:10 kyelewis: hl has a very desent engine. I think it would be great if it made it into the public domain! 01:33:05 gnu-life. hehe 01:38:19 wasnt leaked, it was stolen 01:38:30 valve got hacked 01:38:39 outlook buffer overflow :) 01:39:13 that'll teach them to use outlook 01:41:11 no it wont 01:41:20 valve is a stupid m$ loving company 01:43:22 well, then they'll bend over and repeatedly take it, like so many other companies that refuse to break their reliance on buggy software 01:53:02 heh, you guys have it all figured out 01:57:57 yup 01:58:41 go linux! 01:59:01 my semaphores semasuck 02:01:47 http://bespin.org/~qz/ideas/modcomp/ 02:01:54 who doesnt think that idea kicks ass? 02:03:50 * witten reads it 02:05:17 there are SGI machines like this 02:05:21 of course, they're not desktops 02:06:17 ya 02:07:32 heh, perfect OS 02:08:20 gotta have the perfect OS for the perfect computer ;) 02:09:54 running windows on that machine would be like putting cheap watered down gas in a ferrari 02:10:18 and not changing the oil 02:10:35 haha 02:13:17 I would love to know what that guy smokes... and I would love some :P 02:13:24 leaked, stolen, the point is people could get to it who shouldn't have been able to ;) 02:14:26 Apophis: :) 02:14:31 lol 02:15:02 Apophis: he's brilliant eh? 02:15:28 as the saying goes, there's a fine line between insanity, and genius 02:15:45 haha 02:15:45 however, I'm tending to lean towards nsanity for this poor bloke :) 02:15:51 air: great minds think alike or something? ;) 02:16:09 I'm starting to worry that it maybe you? 02:16:16 ;) 02:16:23 in which case, he's a master of intelligence :) 02:16:23 lol 02:17:15 Apophis: whats so insane about that design? 02:18:00 PPC, and X86 in the one box seems like a rather irrelevant idea to me, considering he's focussing on the end user (is it you, or not?) 02:18:14 well 02:18:31 that would only work if u had software to support it 02:18:47 oh, I'm not concerned about it's workability 02:19:05 if yer OS had x86 and ppc code installed then it could use both cpus to run native software as if both cpus were ppc or both x86 02:19:07 I'm saying that with ease of use in mind, the processor architecture is irrelevant 02:19:37 or u could have the OS and software running all on the x86 and special software on the ppc 02:19:38 well, I believe there would be far more to it than that... but we needn't get into that 02:19:51 hmm 02:19:52 but, my point is why? 02:19:59 modularity 02:20:13 the point is that all modules are equal 02:20:24 i've changed http://kts.id.au/conduet/frames/ thanks to some suggestions already, does anyone here feel helping me with their opinions on the page layout etc? 02:20:29 why would your average joe want to run code on a PPC processor in his easy-to-use-box-of-calculating-power+1 02:20:35 they register themselve with the system and it deal with them in some way 02:20:56 Apophis: maybe he just bought a new game that was written for ppc 02:21:01 but air, my point is not in the technicalities of it. it's in the why? 02:21:06 the graphics are more or less set, i'm looking at workability and ease of getting around for developers and ppl interested 02:21:14 air: for the end user, he does not want to consider this 02:21:49 kyelewis: those frames im seeing? 02:21:55 Apophis: he wouldnt 02:22:12 the end user considers his computer a tool. perhapps equivalent to a toaster 02:22:15 his game says use requires the ppc module 02:22:24 his game says "requires the ppc module" 02:22:40 so he buys it and sticks it in without caring what it does 02:22:44 which is no different from "game requires a macintosh with OS X" 02:22:54 or "game requires a PC with Windows 95 or greater" 02:22:59 or he knows his computer at home already has a module that says PPC on it 02:23:03 yes, they are, but if you object to frames for some crazy reason, imagine it without frames ;) 02:23:19 kyelewis: whats wrong with divs? 02:23:24 tell me for what reasons in particular you object to frames here? 02:23:28 kyelewis: you can achieve a similar effect with CSS 02:23:51 as long as it works in IE fine 02:23:59 kyelewis: i prefer arrow key scrolling and frames make it hard 02:24:07 i haven't really looked at it much, but i tend to shy away from CSS and IE because it tends to have problems 02:24:21 kyelewis: and frames reduce window size 02:24:37 air: the page would look exactly the same with or without frames 02:24:41 --- join: wl (philipp@pD9E2DFD8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 02:24:56 the main reason for putting the frames there was to not make the side-bar scroll with the main text body 02:25:20 kyelewis: I'm not saying you should lose the frames... air must have said that. I'm merely offering an alternative to them, if you'd like... tables are another alternative, although I would object to them 02:25:53 kyelewis: divs can do that 02:25:57 why would you object to tables? that i really don't understand 02:26:07 no air, CSS can. 02:26:26 Apophis: right but u normally use divs 02:26:28 kyelewis: because tables should not be used for layout purposes 02:26:38 air: and it works work fine in IE? as i said, i tend to be 'scared' of CSS, because of the way Internet Explorer tends to suck at it 02:26:45 yes, but divs by themselves will not have that effect 02:26:55 Apophis: and u dont need a css, u can use
02:27:15 air: what you put inside style="" is, infact CSS ;) 02:27:26 it's the shorthand way of applying CSS 02:27:34 Apophis: its css code but its not a css :) 02:27:53 well, I don't see why it's not a CSS 02:28:01 aaaaaaanyway! 02:28:12 keyyes it works 02:28:14 --- join: Lecter (~coolwater@dsl672.saudi.net.sa) joined #osdev 02:28:15 besides that, imagine the page using the technology you love the most 02:28:19 hey 02:28:28 kyelewis: yes it works 02:28:29 any other comments? :P 02:28:42 does anyone have intro. readings about kernel programming 02:28:58 on bsd 02:29:06 kyelewis: the gray strip in top frame on right side 02:29:21 ? 02:29:30 what browser are you viewing in btw 02:29:35 firebird 02:29:46 * Apophis cannot see the strip 02:29:47 and you say there's a grey strip? 02:30:35 bespin.org/~qz/conduet.png 02:31:07 hmm 02:31:11 why do you have frame borders? 02:31:11 --- quit: Lecter (Remote closed the connection) 02:31:23 there aren't any set 02:32:06 i'm going to optimise the code and in that process it might hopefully change the frame borders... as for the grey area i have no idea.. i'll look into it 02:32:06 did you specifically set them as disabled? 02:32:20 i haven't looked in friebird yet 02:32:44 02:33:15 border attributes belong in from memory 02:33:20 but I could be wrong 02:33:42 well this is code straight from a wysiwyg editor, i'm going to clean it up, but i want to do that when the page is a-ok 02:34:03 anyway, i must sleep 02:34:15 frames are evil 02:34:33 lol 02:34:38 just tell me why? 02:34:47 i did 02:34:55 just because there's an alternative doesn't mean you must use it... what's evil about it? 02:35:00 they force me to click around to scroll 02:35:01 the frameborders shouldn't be there 02:35:12 ok.. which wysiwyg editor? 02:35:15 so you're lazy? 02:35:15 :) 02:35:24 kyelewis: join #web and ask why frames are evil 02:35:30 because I just looked it up, and w3c says that the frameborder attribute belongs to the frame element 02:35:37 so your editor is evil :) 02:36:11 i'm sure there's a million people who'll tell me that it's evil... and then i can probably go to other people who can tell linux is evil... should i believe those people too? 02:36:19 hehe 02:36:23 well, ok, the editor is evil :) 02:36:28 but apart from that :P 02:36:40 well, considering w3c make the spec, you should believe their interpretation of their own standard :) 02:37:01 Apophis: i was answering air's saying "join #web and ask why frames are evil" 02:37:12 yeah, I figured that after I'd hit enter :) 02:37:13 sorry 02:37:14 i won't deny that the editor is evil :P 02:37:29 damn evil limitations of IRC 02:37:38 lol 02:38:09 I won't tell you frames are evil. I wouldn't use them myself. But I will tell you that using tables for layout really is evil 02:38:42 to be honest, that doesn't leave me with much choice 02:38:46 :P 02:39:01 but then you must ask yourself which is more evil. is it more evil to use tables for layout, or is it more evil to lose money by turning back clients who want their pages to work everywhere 02:39:35 well, i probably won't be losing money, seeing it's a free project ;) 02:39:46 but for other sites, i get your idea 02:39:53 oh, in that case, fuck IE :P (excuse the language) 02:40:12 lol, well, as much as i hate to admit it, a lot of people use it 02:40:30 i often use it, imho opera sucks, and i haven't gotten around to putting anything else on here yet 02:40:31 they sure do... but it's a site about an alternative OS... 02:40:48 I love Opera 02:40:53 when i'm in linux obviously i don't have that problem 02:40:56 but mozilla is acceptable 02:41:43 if there's no paying clients in sight, then you're open to make a choice about doing what is morally right 02:41:58 and that is of course, to use CSS 02:42:05 morally right? 02:42:24 i understand, but why the word "morally" :P 02:42:38 well, I feel that colors in IRC are morally wrong, so I might be an extremist 02:42:41 anyway 02:42:55 well, colors in irc are annoying when used the way they often are 02:43:08 to me, it's more the breach of standard 02:43:27 I wouldn't care the least about colors, if they were in RCF1459 02:43:27 but ignoring the technology behind it, which i'll look more into, apart from that, do you have any comments about the page layout? 02:44:00 I don't like the screenshot... but you shouldn't listen to my nit-picking about it :) 02:44:06 lol 02:44:18 the layout, not the content ;) 02:44:48 layout is nice. I might have put the boxes on the right, myself, though 02:44:55 just the same as i'm not asking how good the conduet project description is, when it duplicates itself around 3 times :) 02:45:05 haha 02:45:45 just because I find it slightly distracting to read, given that I read from left to right 02:46:02 hmm, ok, i'll try it on the right and see how that looks 02:46:10 but it's only a really minor thing. and I'm used to it with other sites, so it's not something to worry about 02:46:35 if you were a project developer, is there anything else you'd want easy access too? 02:47:16 or any other features that would make dev easier and "more enjoyable" ;) 02:48:17 I think a nice integrated forum-like system would be handy 02:48:27 so basically a forum? 02:48:28 or? 02:48:29 :P 02:48:32 extra points if it's integrated with a mailing-list 02:48:52 well, I'm thinking of what I've used in the past, which wasn't quite a forum 02:48:57 but a forum would be good, too 02:49:02 so a forum, or a mailing list archive? you mean a mailing list archive with forum-like properties? ;) 02:49:22 well, it'd be nice to be able to use it as either a mailing-list, or a forum 02:49:52 some devs like forums. others like mailing-lists 02:50:12 you need one or the other, or ideally both 02:50:50 I'm all out of bourbon :( 02:51:03 lol 02:51:34 the old site is at conduet.org and was hosted by kennyt, but he also edited my pages in such a way that they seem to look bad :/ 02:52:09 http://www.conduet.org/ for those people too lazy to copy and paste ;) 02:52:20 although that *would* require clicking ;) 02:52:44 --- join: trans (nanpfs@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 02:53:39 what's the name of the code / script used at http://www.conduet.org/doc/view/en/faq.xml ? 02:53:45 anyone know? 02:54:01 that looks like what gentoo were using 02:54:07 yeah, i know 02:54:10 i noticed that 02:54:17 I believe drobbins did an article on it for IBM's developerworks, or something 02:55:10 from memory, it seemed pretty silly 02:55:41 I'd have been more inclined to write something simpler in PHP. but I think he was aiming at statuc content, to reduce CPU usage, or something 03:06:44 --- quit: Matzon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:11:02 --- join: Nay (~nay@saturne.esial.uhp-nancy.fr) joined #osdev 03:31:32 --- join: clsk (clsk@0-1pool135-143.nas7.fort-lauderdale1.fl.us.da.qwest.net) joined #osdev 03:33:18 --- quit: Nay ("++") 03:39:49 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:40:04 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:44:11 --- join: gab_ (~prfalken@nas-cbv-5-62-147-144-187.dial.proxad.net) joined #osdev 03:47:14 --- join: SIS-1650-01 (~sis@as11-2-1.rny.s.bonet.se) joined #osdev 03:51:36 --- quit: gab (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:01:37 --- join: kyelewis (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 04:02:06 ugh, not only did i get disconnected, but my IRC client didn't feel like telling me 04:02:07 :P 04:04:36 :) 04:05:01 it knows whats best for others 04:05:10 lol 04:05:17 you know how to make someone feel good mors ;) 04:05:23 ;) 04:05:46 so, what plans for the weekend 04:05:56 hmm... let me see... plans... hmm 04:06:03 ;) 04:06:10 unfortunately probably not much 04:06:19 i know, irc and watching your screen 04:06:20 homework most likely 04:06:23 oic 04:06:29 all the homework i *should* have done the last 2 weeks 04:06:30 ;) 04:06:35 heh 04:06:42 and working on getting the conduet project back up 04:07:05 not just the better website ;) 04:07:18 ah good good 04:07:28 but also the developer tools, and i'm going to go through every line of the current code 04:07:38 why 04:07:39 because it's a bit of a mess 04:07:41 :P 04:07:43 k 04:07:50 there isn't a huge amout of it to look through thank god 04:07:56 ;) 04:08:17 one of the main things i'm doing is making it easier for developers to find tasks to do, and to submit stuff when it's done 04:08:38 personally i hate cvs for submitting patches 04:08:58 why so? can it be done in a better way? 04:09:06 i love it or rsync for keeping stuff fresh, but not submitting patches 04:09:31 just because i can't be bothered going through the hassle... i'm not sure, i just have a dislike for it 04:09:53 i'm not going to take it *away* of course 04:09:59 --- quit: file (Client Quit) 04:10:18 that is, if i can *get* a working copy of the code :P 04:10:29 assuming ken still has it on public CVS 04:11:14 because for some reason the tarball failed to decompress :/ 04:11:32 i'm going to move all the conduet stuff to my box 04:17:02 who are you talking to 04:17:17 well, i *was* talking to mors ;) 04:17:32 you don't have to scroll up very far to figure that one out 04:17:34 :P 04:17:38 hehe, i was listening too :) 04:17:57 too lazy to move my eyes upwards 04:18:01 but idle can be excused of such trivial things like scrolling up 04:18:04 yea 04:18:34 * mors tries to imagine idle being a family man with a few kids and all 04:18:35 you reliaze how much energy that takes 04:18:44 * idle is anti-family 04:18:44 man, you gonna be in deep trouble 04:18:54 hehe 04:19:01 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FD346.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 04:19:55 chilly here.. 30F 04:49:19 50F here :P 04:49:23 still cold :/ 04:50:21 "57.38F" aka 14.1C ici 04:52:17 is that all? 04:52:23 pretty warm 04:52:25 that's not very low really 04:53:11 what does 30F translate to? 04:53:12 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:53:53 30F = -1.1C 04:54:01 :) 04:54:01 !! 04:54:08 brrr! 04:54:22 f = c*(9/5)+32 04:54:24 boy, ive never seen negative centigrades. must be cold 04:54:38 its normal 04:54:42 at 0°C (or ~31°F) water freezes 04:54:43 where are ya 04:54:47 is it snowing then? :) 04:54:52 -1.1 would be cold, but survivable 04:54:54 Virginia :) 04:54:57 germania 04:55:00 k 04:55:20 Hirogen2, 32F :P 04:55:24 over here its 27C 04:55:31 so, which should be.. 59F 04:55:47 yea 04:56:19 is it sunny during the day? idle 04:56:27 fahrenheit is just confusing :P 04:56:28 i hate those bleaky dark winter days 04:56:29 yes its sunny today 04:56:33 ah, good 04:56:39 hehe 04:57:02 not really 04:57:04 how many countries still use fahrenheit? 04:57:09 what is fahrenheit based on? 04:57:15 kyelewis: the whole US 04:57:16 i flourish in cold climate 04:57:22 i said how many countries 04:57:27 the US is one country :P 04:57:34 1 then heh 04:58:03 --- join: Matzon (~blarg@80.197.154.22) joined #osdev 04:58:31 screw rest of the world 04:58:34 we use our own units 04:58:52 don't you still use inches? 04:59:04 yeap 04:59:08 inches omg 04:59:10 :) 04:59:13 heh 04:59:30 i don't complain that inches are 2.54 cm (an inch is 1 inch and one cm is 1 cm) 04:59:39 but that a foot is not TEN inches... 05:00:34 well, monitors are sll measured in inches wherever you are 05:00:38 s/sll/still/ 05:00:38 :/ 05:00:47 does the complexity overwhelm you 05:00:51 TV's in cm's and monitors in inches, it confuses me :P 05:02:10 move to US 05:03:12 ugh 05:03:17 * kyelewis shoots iprimus 05:03:37 347ms to a site the same distance as sites which get 25ms 05:04:43 but as soon as the connection goes from telstra to iprimus, the ping goes from 31ms to 331ms 05:06:33 --- quit: Smari (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:11:07 --- join: trans (dgavoc@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 05:11:08 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:11:48 --- join: kyelewis_lap (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 05:12:14 --- nick: kyelewis_lap -> kyelewis 05:15:10 --- join: idle- (~idle@208.27.0.37) joined #osdev 05:15:29 --- quit: idle (Nick collision from services.) 05:15:32 --- nick: idle- -> idle 05:55:50 --- join: bedboi (~bedboi@host36-69.pool80183.interbusiness.it) joined #osdev 05:55:52 hi there 05:56:39 don't know if i'm off topic. I have problems porting a module to 2.6.x linux kernel 05:57:23 i think that i'm missing something compiling the module 05:57:38 'ignorance is bliss' for the concerned individual. yes. but not necessarily for individuals around him 05:58:22 hmm 05:58:48 bedboi: someone might help ya here. but there are other channels in this server. #kernelnewbies and some others (forgot the names) 05:59:35 mors: kernelnewbies forward me to linux-kernel...but it seems that all peeps in there are afk 05:59:46 ah, linux-kernel, yea. one of those 06:00:47 my colleague here has 2.6.x , he says is its blazing fast 06:01:02 i would like to know how to export "__this_module" symbol to my module... 06:01:24 as i saw that without that symbol i can't insmod the new module 06:02:34 bedboi: try askin in #linux-help too, its quite active 06:02:53 and patience is very essential to get queries answered in IRC 06:03:43 mors: i know it... 06:03:48 ah finally kmalloc() and kfree() working 06:04:10 mors: i think that two weeks are enough ;) 06:04:22 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:04:26 2 weeks? then you dunno how to find answers 06:04:35 i'm asking continuously about this topic, but it seems that nobody knows 06:04:45 hm 06:04:51 did you try posting to the news groups/ 06:05:04 i read about kernel modules at lwn.net 06:05:23 posted @ kernelnewbies 06:06:12 you should get an answer if its a sensible post and if the newgroup is the right one to ask 06:06:20 bad luck, anyway. 2 weeks is a lot 06:06:55 ugh, forgot to add coalescing in kfree() 06:07:07 mors: i know ;) 06:08:49 thnx btw 06:08:52 gotta go now 06:08:55 see ya 06:08:56 --- quit: bedboi ("Client exiting") 06:09:33 this patience of his aint gonna get him answers to his queries in IRC 06:12:03 heh 06:12:20 * kyelewis counts the number of minutes he spent waiting 06:12:21 ;) 06:13:05 well, ya get free info in IRC which is really wonderful 06:13:56 i want to buy a new monitor 06:14:07 no, wait, i *need* to buy a new monitor 06:14:16 why 06:14:29 are you one of those rich teenagers? 06:14:31 i don't mind that the one i have now is 15 inch, or that the picture is not fabulous 06:14:42 who dont know what to spend their dad's hardearned cash on 06:14:55 but the huge 'lines' down my screen on the other hand do get on my nerves 06:14:58 ah, 15inch :P 06:15:07 ive got 19" sun monitor :D 06:15:25 mors: ha! i wish my dad would give me money for a nice new 21" LCD with built in everything, but i don't think so ;) 06:15:32 hehe 06:15:49 19" is pretty cheap these days 06:16:00 CRT that is :/ 06:16:02 not a sun monitor 06:16:06 hehe 06:16:11 ok, not a sun monitor 06:16:15 but in general 06:16:22 hm. 06:16:26 i still have an ASTVision 4L 06:16:29 :P 06:16:41 not too bad really 06:17:01 but after 8 years or so, i think it deserves a rest 06:17:19 ah, poor fella 06:17:19 nothing else in the computer is anywhere near that old 06:17:37 i won't get rid of it, i'll put it over on the other desk :) 06:17:56 solaris is a very reliable OS, methinks. ya can flip the power on n off many times and still the thing would start up as if nothing happened 06:18:08 ya, you can find lotsa uses for a monitor 06:18:23 then i can make the new monitor only for my main desktop, and the old monitor on the KVM switch with the various test boxes : 06:18:25 :) 06:18:33 yeah 06:18:50 ok, quit distracting me now :P lemme code a bit 06:18:51 ;) 06:18:54 hehe 06:19:00 * kyelewis checks out the current conduet code 06:26:26 --- join: Smerity (~smerity@p899-apx1.syd.ihug.com.au) joined #osdev 06:30:37 --- join: talin (~talin@30.80-202-87.nextgentel.com) joined #osdev 06:37:54 --- join: Smari (~spm@optimized.bitcode.org) joined #osdev 06:39:31 --- join: kernel-panic (rewt@ANice-205-1-3-154.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #osdev 06:39:55 hi * 06:40:30 hi kerne* 07:01:31 --- join: kyelewis_lap (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 07:01:32 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:01:34 --- nick: kyelewis_lap -> kyelewis 07:02:06 kyelewis on someones lap? 07:02:15 i need a chick to do a lapdance for me 07:02:41 lol 07:03:03 well, there are 2 problems with that 07:03:37 the biggest one would probably be that i'm the wrong sex for that to work 07:03:59 unless you're into that sort of stuff 07:03:59 ;) 07:04:18 the second problem doesn't exist, i just wanted to make you look less credible :) 07:04:23 it was just a generic statement. and your gay mind took it as being directed to you 07:04:29 heh 07:04:32 :D 07:06:45 Whoot whoot. 07:08:13 w00t w00t what? 07:08:35 I'm awake. 07:08:40 lol 07:08:46 cause for a celebration? 07:08:51 Of course. 07:08:57 I'm the life of the #osdev party. 07:09:00 :-D 07:09:01 lol 07:09:15 * Patrick_W pulls out his two turntables and microphone. 07:09:17 party? where? 07:09:25 rock babe, rock 07:09:54 In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey 07:09:57 cmon cmon cmon now.. touch me babe.. cant ya see that i am not afraid 07:10:07 haha. pls dont sing that song.. 07:10:15 my friend irritates me enough with that 07:10:24 Oh, ok. I'll find something else. 07:10:27 what song is that? 07:11:20 Early in the morning risin' to the street, light me up that cigarette and I strap shoes on my feet 07:11:30 wtf? 07:11:34 kyelewis: Beck -- Loser. 07:11:48 Got to find a reason a reason things went wrong 07:11:48 Got to find a reason why my money's all gone 07:11:59 i swear i've never heard half these songs... stupid australia so far behind in music :/ 07:12:03 I got a dalmation, I can still get high... 07:12:17 But I can play the guitar like a mother-f*ing riot! 07:12:41 kyelewis: Loser is quite old, probably good 5-7 years. 07:12:58 I see there are no sublime fans here though. :( 07:13:23 i'm not talking about that particular song, but songs in general are behind here :/ 07:14:00 kyelewis: Listen to radio.wazee 07:14:04 www.wazee.org 07:15:34 unable to establish connection? argh 07:15:37 --- join: trans (frldqm@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 07:16:28 Hmm. 07:16:34 Maybe they block .au. 07:16:35 :) 07:16:48 Or is au austria? 07:16:57 no, au is australia 07:16:59 .com.au 07:17:00 No. at is austrai. 07:17:12 austria == .at 07:17:35 That's why he's atjulius. 07:17:51 (Friend from #qnx) 07:17:55 Buffering... yey 07:18:03 and buffering 07:18:05 and buffering 07:18:14 nice quality 07:18:17 ugh 07:18:21 except it's buffering again 07:19:24 kyelewis: I boost my buffer up to 45sec. 07:20:50 it's fine when i connect to the ISP http proxy though 07:21:05 that's the one thing i hate about COMindico 07:21:17 streaming won't work properly unless through their http proxy 07:21:22 Odd. 07:21:31 As if they connect for you and recast it. 07:21:52 as in i type their proxy server in, so it goes through their proxy server first 07:22:13 because their proxy server has a better international connection than i do it would seem 07:22:23 Ah. 07:22:54 as i've said to them once, it just wastes my time and theirs, they should just give us the bandwidth and be done with it 07:23:00 we use it anyway, just through their http proxy 07:25:19 --- join: eniac (~eniac@17.126-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 07:27:10 --- quit: Smerity () 07:27:49 hehe 07:27:50 http://www.bernardbelanger.com/computing/NaDa/index.html 07:29:02 "I'm very satisfied with your new product. One of the amazing benefits you failed to mention is that even after being deleted it continues to do nothing. At first I found this a little disturbing, but the persistance of effect eventually gave me a sense of faith in the enduring strength of Nothing, a touchstone in a world gone mad." 07:29:15 --- join: demise (~HjuT@c-a24272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 07:35:03 kyelewis: That was great. 07:35:27 now 07:35:33 "Dear Sirs, 07:35:33 Unfortunately we can't afford your software. Although your software is free, company standards dictate we must have 5 managers and a technical staff to support it ! This amounts to well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars in expense. That's not including 24x7 support costs ! 07:35:33 Thank You" 07:35:33 Janson 07:35:34 NT Server Support 07:35:35 where on earth was i that i got sidetracked like that :P 07:35:36 07:35:39 ugh 07:35:54 hehe 07:36:02 kyelewis: Reading slashdot? 07:36:18 why? 07:36:47 You got sidetracked from something important, must have been reading slashdot...right? :-D 07:36:51 lol 07:39:35 wtf 07:39:45 what's up with the second post here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=80945&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=126&tid=172&tid=95&mode=thread&pid=0 07:39:47 ? 07:41:12 not a viewpoint i hear very often ;) 07:46:08 --- join: Nay (~nay@saturne.esial.uhp-nancy.fr) joined #osdev 07:55:53 hmm 07:55:55 hmmmmm 07:55:58 hmmmmmmmmm 07:57:00 --- quit: eniac ("Lost terminal") 08:00:25 --- join: pr1 (~pr1@ras04.ras.SBG.AC.AT) joined #osdev 08:01:20 --- quit: ToreSB (Connection timed out) 08:06:00 --- quit: Nay ("Ciao !") 08:09:07 --- quit: demise () 08:14:04 --- nick: gab_ -> gab 08:27:08 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:36:18 --- quit: elvstone ("bbl") 08:37:08 --- join: ToreSB (~tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 08:38:06 Hello 08:38:10 Slowcoder: awake?? 08:59:27 --- join: eniac (~eniac@17.126-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) joined #osdev 09:00:51 --- quit: Dr_Evil () 09:10:50 --- join: elvstone (~elvis@h235n2fls32o879.telia.com) joined #osdev 09:19:32 Hmmm, anyone got a good OS for a 386? 09:19:49 I just want a text editor, really. 09:20:36 Hmmmm, I want to make an outlook-style program... 09:22:39 --- quit: ToreSB ("Getting into X") 09:23:00 ToreSB, http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Open_Source 09:27:20 --- quit: witten ("Client exiting") 09:34:51 --- join: tore_ (~tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 09:34:56 Hey * 09:35:00 --- nick: tore_ -> ToreSB 09:47:11 To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other. 09:48:33 --- join: Prophet__ (~Prophet@pD9FF6134.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 09:50:23 http://www.aarflot.nu/fun/ft031003.gif 09:50:48 haha :) 09:50:59 i want to see that in the Simpsons 09:55:43 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:55:49 --- quit: Prophet_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:09:55 --- join: seunosewa (~seunosewa@81.18.40.28) joined #osdev 10:13:55 --- join: witten (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 10:17:53 --- quit: elvstone (Remote closed the connection) 10:18:27 --- quit: Divine (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:20:18 --- join: ee (~000000@cmung2892.cmu.carnet.hr) joined #osdev 10:22:52 yawn, whats up? 10:24:25 --- join: elvstone (~elvis@h235n2fls32o879.telia.com) joined #osdev 10:24:32 coding coding 10:27:32 yeah 10:36:04 --- quit: ee (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:02:58 --- quit: ToreSB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:18:01 --- join: Divine (~john@12-246-112-182.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 11:18:05 --- quit: witten ("Client exiting") 11:35:03 --- join: trans (ojqrsu@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 11:42:01 --- join: gianluca (~glguida@ppp-40-137.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 11:42:24 --- quit: GTCoder (Remote closed the connection) 11:42:41 --- join: GTCoder (~dan@r40h63.res.gatech.edu) joined #osdev 11:42:55 --- join: dax (~dax@81.11.142.19) joined #osdev 11:43:00 hi all 11:43:41 hmm 11:43:49 seems rather deadish? 11:48:54 --- quit: CrayT3E (Remote closed the connection) 11:52:30 at the moment, yes 11:53:52 GEIST 11:54:19 hmm irc'ing from a console atm 11:54:28 while installing linux 11:55:54 ah 11:57:27 --- part: clsk left #osdev 12:05:37 --- join: CrayT3E (~CrayT3E@195.134.81.191) joined #osdev 12:12:27 --- join: witten (~witten@ip-64-32-131-193.dsl.lax.megapath.net) joined #osdev 12:14:30 --- join: ToreSB (~tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 12:14:41 hey 12:19:44 hey 12:26:37 --- quit: eniac (Remote closed the connection) 12:29:51 yo 12:31:01 --- join: pros-n-cons (~irv@cpe-66-75-39-194.bak.rr.com) joined #osdev 12:32:34 yo 12:33:02 geist: what do you think of implementing sleep() as nothing more than a special case of a semaphore? 12:37:19 --- quit: gianluca ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 12:37:41 I do it on newos 12:37:57 there's a sleep sem in the system that just has threads acquire it with a timeout 12:39:01 you could just as easily implement the sleep code as a timer event that comes back and sticks the thread in the run queue. that'd be more efficient since you wouldn't have to run through all of the sem code and remove it from the queue, etc 12:39:09 but it's all pretty minor. code reuse is a plus 12:39:58 I actually am implementing sleep now as a timer event 12:40:25 I was thinking of doing it as a semaphore.. that way I don't have to have separate code for a semaphore wait list vs a sleeping wait list 12:41:47 although I guess I can see a way of generalizing the code so it can more easily support both 12:41:53 without special cases 12:43:00 yeah, some systems have that 12:43:17 I know solaris has a generic wait queue mechanism that other primitives are made out of 12:43:23 since they have sems, mutexes, events, etc 12:43:40 ah, that makes sense 12:44:14 oh wow it's so refreshing to talk about osdev at this level 12:44:21 thanks witten for getting this far 12:44:23 :) 12:44:34 hehe, thanks for helping me get this far :) 12:44:42 good osdev talk should be about design, not the implementation details 12:44:58 yeah, talking about how to compile a boot loader with the newbs does get a little old :) 12:45:02 most folks are mired in the details, which I take as a sign that they aren't ready 12:45:08 yeah 12:45:13 I like design a lot 12:45:23 it's more interesting to me than the low level stuff 12:45:38 which is funny.. an OS developer that doesn't like low level stuff 12:47:01 heh 12:47:14 I've been having fun with usb lately, lots of details and tons of design required 12:47:19 cool 12:47:37 finally got it to get a configuration packet from a device 12:47:45 took a while to get the endpoint and transfer descriptors just right 12:48:25 nice 12:48:34 is usb really complicated? 12:49:36 i like design, but i'm doomed to be awfully bad at it :p 12:49:37 it's pretty complex 12:49:47 a good stack is probably 20 or 30k lines of C 12:49:54 eek. 12:50:12 it's very dynamic by design, so you have to deal with a lot of edge cases 12:50:16 that's more than my kernels have ever been heh. 12:50:37 geist: how would you compare it to a tcp/ip stack? 12:50:41 wtf, still building glibc ugh. 12:50:56 well, usb and network traffic really aren't the same thing at all 12:51:11 it's different in a lot of ways 12:52:00 the usb stack has to deal with a lot of bus enumeration, and deal with stuff getting unplugged all at once and fun stuff like power requirements 12:52:16 so it's going to be loading and unloading drivers a lot, dealing with pending transactions 12:52:30 yah 12:52:35 * dax wished he could get his os to the driver-writing-stage 12:52:45 looks like my kernel code is about 312K 12:52:52 dax: what stage are you at? 12:52:53 for the most part the upper stack generates transactions and hands it to the host controller, which processes the transaction and either does a callback or releases a semaphore or whatnot when it's done 12:53:08 geist: ooh, callbacks and semaphores.. fun 12:53:14 I bet that's great to debug 12:53:21 witten: most of the time i just write microkernels and compare/experiment with ipc and all 12:53:23 so you have to keep track of all the transactions on the fly, and handle cancelling them all when a whole tree of devices are suddenly removed 12:53:40 dax: well that's something 12:53:51 and part of the stack will be the bus enumerator, which looks for states to change on any hub ports out there (detecting a plug-in) 12:54:01 and start enumerating through any hubs that are connected to that port and so on 12:54:14 but then i always find an imho 'fatal' flaw and rewrite a large part (like mm) 12:54:16 and deal with being halfway through an enumeration when another hub is connected, or a device is removed somewhere else, etc 12:54:52 geist: sounds like scsi sorta 12:55:01 and then you have isochronous transfers, which I haven't totally wrapped my head around 12:55:10 and how that impacts the stack design 12:55:14 dax: and then it doesn't work anymore? or it just slows you down but then it works? 12:56:11 witten: i always keep finding those flaws and i just can't seem to advance much 12:56:17 back in a bit, I have a conference call to go to 12:56:37 hooray i think glibc is finished 12:56:43 dax: I was in a very similar state a few months ago.. I just kept fixing the flaws until eventually I had a fairly robust base.. took forever though 12:56:59 I've been working on this for 3 years 12:57:22 witten: yea forever... how long have i been in this os dev mess now? kinda lost track 12:57:46 hehe 12:57:48 4-5 years i think 12:57:58 well, keep at it, if it at all interests you 12:58:10 but you can discard the first few, those were more toying around with bootloaders 12:58:19 oh well os design is pretty interesting 12:58:59 yup 12:59:14 learned a lot writing all those crap oses 12:59:26 hehe 12:59:34 like: don't study CS later 12:59:38 :P 13:00:38 whee, did sleeping using a semaphore 13:00:40 makes it so much easier 13:00:49 void 13:00:50 sleep(unsigned milliseconds) { 13:00:55 Semaphore sleep_semaphore; 13:01:00 sleep_semaphore.init(0); 13:01:05 sleep_semaphore.acquire(milliseconds); 13:01:06 } 13:01:26 hmm i had sleep implemented as an IPC call IIRC 13:01:43 I don't really have ipc, so that wasn't an option 13:01:56 (IPC nop with a timeout) 13:02:20 yeah, I did a semaphore with a timeout 13:02:38 i tend to put ipc central, though i doubt that is a way to get decent performance 13:03:11 maybe i should look into more 'exotic' designs 13:03:29 like what? 13:03:41 dunno :p 13:03:59 exokernels? 13:04:42 exokernels are a crock, from what I've read 13:04:50 they just sound exotic and neat 13:05:11 yea, it could be all a hype 13:05:40 hmm i should somehow switch to the correct keyboard layout 13:06:03 (haven't used linux in quite a long time) 13:06:33 hmm 13:07:02 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.166) joined #osdev 13:07:18 how do i change the keyboard layout? 13:07:25 guess i could google for that... 13:07:41 depends on your distro 13:07:59 --- quit: gab (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:09:08 --- quit: revanthn (Client Quit) 13:10:00 on a gentoo boot cd now 13:11:43 --- join: revanthn (revanthn@202.9.183.166) joined #osdev 13:12:09 ah figured it out :) 13:12:13 much better now 13:12:38 bootstrapping is also almost done... :D:D:D:D 13:13:04 --- quit: revanthn (Client Quit) 13:13:08 :) 13:14:01 or atleast i think it's almost done... 13:24:50 yay... now compiling the rest of the system 13:31:44 --- join: jsr (www@du-14-90.ppp.telenordia.se) joined #osdev 13:40:13 is this the development machine or your OS 13:40:44 uhm development machine :p 13:40:51 installing gentoo once again 13:41:12 I'm happy with my RH 9 13:45:35 --- join: murr (murr@baana-62-165-187-43.dsl.phnet.fi) joined #osdev 13:45:55 --- join: mrMister (~andri@ti122110a080-5115.bb.online.no) joined #osdev 13:48:00 --- quit: wl ("Liebe ist eine Intimrasur. (American Pie)") 13:48:29 --- join: demise (~HjuT@c-9a4272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #osdev 13:54:05 I want to put an ad on my site - I'm getting hundreds of visitors - where should I turn? 13:54:34 osdn? 13:54:50 --- join: newbs (~tumbler@ts1-illavl185.shawneelink.net) joined #osdev 13:56:44 ahh! just put an ad claiming that you would like to put an ad on it 14:02:08 --- join: file (~file@mctn1-0248.nb.aliant.net) joined #osdev 14:07:17 --- join: shadow151 (~shaadow15@AC8E5071.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 14:07:26 hallo 14:09:51 hety 14:09:53 ghw 14:09:54 äh 14:09:55 terve 14:09:56 . 14:10:08 i'm gonna write a toy OS in C/C++ any suggested websites or anything? 14:10:20 hey 14:10:32 murry 14:10:35 LoddDDddDDddDDa 14:10:48 lodda. 14:10:48 shadow151 - go take a look at the forum at www.mega-tokyo.com/forums 14:10:53 * dax pokes lodda 14:10:54 or /forum dont remember 14:10:58 hey dax 14:11:03 there will be awesome links, and years of discussion ;) 14:11:09 muru 14:11:11 k TY 14:11:24 idle muru is finnish word actaully 14:11:33 everything is a finnish word 14:11:36 dax hasn't been here for ages 14:11:42 no it¨'s english word >) 14:12:01 you got your laptop yet 14:12:10 true i haven't been here for ages 14:12:15 nah 14:12:17 didn't really have the time 14:12:20 just one week or so 14:12:21 iirc 14:12:22 and i'm installing gentoo now 14:12:39 thought it was too much work keeping it usable? :) 14:12:40 so uhm i can't really do much 14:12:44 yea 14:12:48 i'm going to try it again 14:12:52 maybe it improved? 14:13:22 cause i'm getting fed up with windows requiring 2-3 reboots every day :'( 14:13:24 i've no idea 14:13:27 never used it 14:13:39 just takes ages to install heh 14:13:46 --- quit: HeavyJoost (Remote closed the connection) 14:13:47 been installing for 4 hours or so now 14:13:57 hmm is gentoo like LFS 14:14:00 i have to shut down every evening anyways 14:14:19 --- join: HeavyJoost (~heavyjoos@a213-84-139-110.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #osdev 14:14:40 yea gentoo is kind of an automated lfd 14:14:41 lfs* 14:15:07 but i hope that i'm getting myself a new puter in the next weeks 14:15:10 ah 14:15:14 then i can run 24/7 14:16:17 well that's not a goal actually :) 14:16:58 * file legally downloads an MP3 14:17:50 file legally, that word says you download 99% of time illegal ones :) 14:18:01 murr: it doesn't 14:18:04 idle nah 14:18:13 this week supposed to send some price queries 14:18:37 it does 14:18:43 lodda getting laptop? 14:19:15 murr: no, in Canada it's legal to download MP3s 14:20:04 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FDA0E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 14:20:07 murr: most likely not..i don't want to buy one with a desktop cpu and those with centrino procs are too expensive; iBook is too expensive for the price 14:20:15 er 14:20:24 for the specs 14:20:56 so you'd buy also apple hm 14:20:58 what ever specs? :) 14:21:09 i would consider it 14:21:26 okay 14:21:28 because it doesn't matter that much for a laptop 14:21:57 i wouldn't buy an apple for home if i hadn't too much money on my hands 14:22:26 i want a decent 3D card. latest demos require DX9 :( 14:22:27 the Centrino is worth it 14:22:42 i don't have enough money 14:22:46 my friend has an Acer Travelmate with Centrino, the battery life rocks - and the 1MB of L2 cache blows your mind away 14:22:59 it's got an ATI Radeon 9000 chipset... ahhhh it rocks 14:23:05 i have a "decent" video card 14:23:14 dax: as in? 14:23:15 3d card? 14:23:18 games'+ 14:23:19 ? 14:23:22 I just have an ATI Rage 128 14:23:28 no, demoscene :) 14:23:28 with svideo, composite, and vga out 14:23:28 as in gf4ti4200 with dual dvi our 14:23:31 out* 14:23:32 i don't care about game 14:23:33 s 14:24:02 Centrino is... amazing 14:24:12 * lodda wants gf fx5600 with dvi/vga/tv out 14:24:23 there are 256MB cards for amazingly low prices 14:24:25 why? 14:25:01 because they are low price and support nice dx9/OpenGL extensions features :) 14:25:29 i needed a dual dvi card, found this ti4200, so i went with it, it's a decent card and it runs at 4600 speeds 14:26:47 I just have an S3 Trio64 in my server box... 14:28:17 video card in a server? 14:28:19 blasphemy 14:28:25 hmm this is still going to take a few hours 14:28:31 i have a gf2mx in my "server" 14:28:47 it's more a second workstation/experimental box though 14:28:51 I'd like a matrox 14:28:59 the matrox has you!!! 14:29:09 sure does 14:29:14 frzd: for the times when I can't ssh in... cause it needs me to fsck 14:29:18 --- quit: ToreSB ("boihgøhauegouharøoguherøoguhaerøliguhairygøierughøieaurgøaieurhgliseurhgliuerthgiuwehrøgiouheriguheaølirutghseøirut) 14:29:25 i was kidding 14:29:32 otherwise it would hav eno video card 14:29:39 hmm i wanna get xfree up & running 14:29:41 i want to get a puter with 120GB HD, 1024MB RAM, XP 2600+, gf fx5600 256MB RAM for 750 euro :) 14:29:42 this is anyoing 14:31:13 --- quit: lynx_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:31:57 I want a cluster composed of 1024 G5s for nothing. ;) 14:32:11 mrMister: go to sleep and dream 14:32:18 I thought love was only true in fairy tales 14:32:24 meant for someone else but not for me... 14:32:25 lol 14:32:35 love was out to get me, that's the way it seems, disappoint haunted all my dreams 14:32:46 and then I saw her face... now I'm a believer!!! not a trace... of doubt on my mind 14:32:46 720 eur 14:32:49 and laptop too? 14:33:42 --- join: nullify (1000@pool-138-89-97-2.mad.east.verizon.net) joined #osdev 14:33:45 --- join: lynx_work (~lodsb@pD954480D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 14:34:49 nah... my budget is low 14:34:54 --- quit: jsr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:35:41 atm i have 100 euro, i'll soon get 400 euro from work and monthly 60 euro and from my grandma in 2 weeks 100 euro. so i still need like 2 months or so 14:37:01 work 14:37:03 sounds terrible 14:37:13 what kind of? 14:38:41 rooooster 14:40:09 just keeping a web site up to date 14:40:49 wtf you get 60 for that :p 14:40:58 :P 14:41:03 my income is... 0/month 14:41:20 poor dax :PP 14:41:26 ffs no prize money either for my sport prestations :( 14:41:37 heh 14:41:41 sports suck anyway 14:41:45 (parakarting) 14:42:23 if i wouldn't need money i wouldn't do that job, anyway 14:43:35 i'm trying to learn a bit more in my spare time (electronics) 14:43:54 don't have too much spare time even 14:44:07 bah that's annoying... that stupid IDE died again 14:44:25 too much maths on this side lol. 14:45:02 (not a HD, just an integrated development environment) 14:45:08 heh 14:45:31 hmm 14:45:59 * dax doesn't have a free wensday afternoon anymore :( 14:46:15 sure? 14:46:22 yesterday mur went to school 14:46:26 i went to school :) 14:46:38 anyways started 9 am and i left building 11 pm :) 14:46:50 and i still had time to dream and such 14:46:51 i have a quick question can i use the linux gcc libraries to compile an OS or are those OS specific? 14:47:05 are you in a library now murr 14:47:10 no 14:47:13 lahti 14:47:13 wensday i have classes from 8:15 am to 12:00 and then 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm 14:47:17 --- join: tore_ (~tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 14:47:19 you need to look up my domain name 14:47:22 --- nick: tore_ -> ToreSB 14:47:23 hmm 14:47:25 Hey 14:47:25 1 to 5 -> maths. 14:47:26 if it's uiah.fi then i'm in class 14:47:26 ugh. 14:47:32 if it's phnet.fi then at lahti 14:47:34 shadow151 - you will have to re-write all of the OS-specific code in the libraries in order to compile it for use with your os. 14:47:36 Anyone want to help me build an OS for the PDP-7? 14:47:43 if it contains hoasnet then i'm in hki apartment 14:47:43 what is tahiti 14:47:48 rest is some public place 14:47:54 on mondays i have to go with my dog to dog's school. wednesday sax lesson. thursday japanese lessons. 14:47:58 shadow151 - you need to "port" the library to your os. 14:48:05 anyhow too much maths, too little spare time :( 14:48:14 dax, as long as there is no integration by parts you'll be alright 14:48:15 rdragon- i mean to compile the os not make gcc work on my OS 14:48:43 STUPID MUR 14:48:47 stupid stupid 14:48:48 heh i hope i'll have less classes in uni 14:48:49 ? 14:48:52 accidentally opened spam email 14:48:59 it had title "televising" 14:49:07 we have some television related official emails 14:49:10 no 14:49:15 but they woudlnt use such stupid word "televising" 14:49:27 you mean, for compiling your kernel and such? you should be sure the compiler does not include any libraries, if you are just starting out 14:49:52 rddragon- okay TY 14:50:01 murr, what is tahiti 14:50:18 tahiti is name of drink i think 14:50:22 [5:45p] if it's phnet.fi then at tahti 14:50:40 lahti 14:50:47 where is lathti 14:50:51 --- quit: shadow151 ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 14:50:53 >:) 14:50:58 bathroom? 14:51:03 lol :p 14:51:08 closet 14:51:59 wow the big packages seem to be finished, now it's really advancing fast :D 14:52:11 lahti is 100 north from helsinki 14:52:30 murr: why so many locations? 14:53:15 becuase i move a lot from place to another :) 14:53:22 why? heh 14:53:40 because i want 14:53:41 http://www.cartographic.com/xq/ASP/AreaID.3/RegionID.98/CategoryID.6/ProductID.727/europe/finland/qx/topographic_maps.asp 14:53:44 hehe 14:53:48 language: russian :) 14:53:50 not quite :) 14:54:10 not even in some parts of finland? 14:55:07 50 k minority 14:55:10 or 30k 14:55:15 out of 5M 14:55:33 lahti particularily dones't have russian minority really 14:55:40 hmm 14:55:44 russian mafia 15:00:50 idle mafia: 15:00:50 http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/fi.htm 15:01:47 mm near the beach :) 15:02:06 --- join: gianluca (~glguida@ppp-193-134.28-151.libero.it) joined #osdev 15:02:14 --- quit: demise () 15:05:44 {:V duck 15:06:18 }:Moo 15:06:54 |:] 15:07:04 [0-9A-Z] 15:07:13 * idle slaps murr 15:07:29 * murr doesn't see idle on this channel, too much talk 15:07:47 }o) 15:20:24 --- quit: elvstone ("leaving") 15:39:52 now i see idle 15:40:10 --- join: redblue (star@ppp031.216-96-207.sherb.mt.videotron.ca) joined #osdev 16:01:06 --- log: started osdev/03.10.03 16:01:06 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #osdev 16:01:06 --- topic: 'Operating System DEVelopment || stats/people/logs: http://bespin.org/~qz/irc || http://brix-os.sf.net/library, http://www.osdev.org, http://www.osjournal.hopto.org, http://www.osdev.com.ar, http://www.osdever.net, http://www.mega-tokyo.com/forum/index.php?board=1' 16:01:06 --- topic: set by air on [Fri Sep 26 15:24:43 2003] 16:01:06 --- names: list (clog ToreSBed agony redblue gianluca ToreSB lynx_work nullify Dr_Evil HeavyJoost file newbs mrMister mur pros-n-cons witten CrayT3E dax GTCoder Divine seunosewa Prophet__ pr1 kernel-panic Smari talin idle Matzon SIS-1650-01 Apophis debug Slowcoder draq masi_ Patrick_W air jwesley-work petrusss asm auto mors rdragon Robert lodda frzd Odin- Boney Zenton kdehl CLxyz anon`` zhware cookin johs krux Rico Hirogen2 geist df`_) 16:01:26 the ones that were hosting me 16:08:45 So anyone wanna help me with my OS? 16:08:58 Nah. ;) 16:09:39 --- part: CrayT3E left #osdev 16:10:01 not much of an os for 16k 16:10:05 more like a monitor 16:10:19 not really that interesting to me 16:11:21 what's the diff between a monitor and an OS? 16:12:33 well, a strict definition of an os is very vague 16:12:54 A strict, vague definition.. :) 16:13:08 --- join: CrayT3E (~CrayT3E@195.134.81.191) joined #osdev 16:13:11 you can call a lot of things an OS, but the traditional modern definition is probably too big to cram onto a 16k machine 16:13:36 ie, preemptive multitasking, multithreading, paging vm, processes, threads, etc 16:13:57 * Robert hugs CP/M and calls it an OS: 16:14:00 but a simple cooperative system with a set of library functions to call can be done in 16k no problem 16:14:17 or even something like cp/m, dos, apple 2 rom, etc 16:15:04 --- quit: masi_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:16:17 --- join: DRF (~daniel@host217-42-164-18.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) joined #osdev 16:17:24 but if it really only has 16k of total memory, then you really only have 4k or so to take up with your system, since you should leave the bulk of it available to user programs. that's less than the size of the apple 2 rom, so I wouldn't expect much 16:17:40 probably just a simple interrput handler mechanism, and a simple output driver and that's it 16:17:58 entry points would be fixed, highly optimized hand written assembly 16:18:34 Yeah, the optimizing is the fun bit§ 16:18:35 !* 16:18:50 --- quit: pros-n-cons ("later") 16:19:01 And entry points aren't fixed 16:19:16 There's one EP and that takes a function selector 16:19:24 --- quit: Dr_Evil (Broken pipe) 16:19:29 Which is looked up in a table 16:19:39 okay fine, that's a design detail 16:19:47 To correspond with the DECtape address 16:19:57 but the point is that's not much of a modern os, that's basically just a complicated loader and output driver 16:20:09 Nono, I'm having a TCPIP stack 16:20:10 not even complicated 16:20:12 hahaha 16:20:16 sure, have fun 16:20:21 Well, not really a TCPIP stack 16:20:27 A sort of an output router 16:21:14 like "open pipe to there and there" 16:21:43 Where can I find the IRC protocol spec? 16:22:11 I'm not knocking your desire to do this, I've personally been hacking with apple 2 bios a lot lately,it's a lot of fun working with machines of old 16:22:31 but you're gonna be in on this one alone for sure, not too many folks want to mess with that kind of thing 16:22:33 --- join: linux-c (aaa@213.233.93.164) joined #osdev 16:22:42 wrong ;) 16:22:48 Anyway 16:23:01 stfu and direct me towards the IRC spec ;) 16:23:03 suit yourself 16:23:06 google.com 16:24:08 --- quit: gianluca ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 16:24:25 hello! i have a serial port problem, i need some help pls! 16:24:53 --- quit: SIS-1650-01 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:25:29 what's the problem? 16:27:09 well, i have a serial protocol, send one byte and get 6 and so on until i get a special and transmision byte 16:27:41 works only for one write/read, but after that, i send one byte and get nothing 16:27:49 --- join: ToreSBT (~Tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 16:28:18 programm wait to read, and wait and wait and nothing comes... any ideas? 16:28:19 argh, I need a new job 16:28:33 Test 16:28:58 WHOHOOO 16:29:20 I'm 16:29:28 pls any advice 16:29:44 "I'm 16:29:54 linux-c: more detail please. what os are you using? 16:30:04 linux rh8 16:30:08 and embedix 16:30:10 Test a t o 16:30:30 linux-c: dunno, never did any serial stuff under linux. 16:30:57 well, thx anyway geist... maybe someone knows!:) 16:31:04 Whohooo - I now master the rare art of IRC via telnet 16:31:25 ToreSBT: congrats 16:31:54 ToreSBT: yeah, it's pretty cool 16:32:09 thankfully freenode doesn't ping/pong very much 16:32:25 if it did, you have to pong back within a certain amount of time or it kicks you 16:32:44 but freenode has the ping pong timeout set really high, like 3 hours or so 16:32:46 I'm 16:33:15 I'm studying the protocol to make a client 16:33:31 Guess for what machine ;) 16:33:49 --- nick: ToreSBT -> a 16:33:51 --- nick: a -> b 16:33:53 i missed that part earlyer what machine? 16:34:33 draq: The PDP-7 16:34:33 ToreSBT its painfull waiting for your next line 16:34:55 --- nick: b -> Telnet 16:35:14 There, that's better 16:35:21 well there is a big backlog of ppl waiting for a tcp/ip stack for that? 16:35:30 grin 16:35:48 --- quit: Telnet ("It's") 16:36:04 ...fun but cumbersome 16:36:13 I remember reading about ppl doing harwarehacks on thos to give it more instructions 16:36:30 Yeah, it's extremely simple 16:38:03 the only old hardware I would love to get hold of would be some ATARI transputer workstations fully loded 17 transputers in one case 16:38:51 I even have the compilers on a tape somewhere.. 16:46:57 * ToreSB loves tapes 16:47:12 Don't tell anyone... But tapes are the reason I'm doing this ;) 16:51:20 --- join: Dr_Evil (DSLflat@p508FDA0E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 16:51:51 --- join: gab (~prfalken@nas-p19-1-62-147-236-80.dial.proxad.net) joined #osdev 16:54:19 --- part: linux-c left #osdev 16:54:36 --- quit: Dr_Evil (Client Quit) 16:58:25 --- quit: pr1 ("Client Exiting") 16:58:50 --- join: wcstok (strtok_r@dialup-67.31.178.26.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) joined #osdev 17:02:07 --- quit: Prophet__ ("Der Letzte macht das Netz aus!") 17:05:01 --- join: smti (smti@ACA543CF.ipt.aol.com) joined #osdev 17:07:07 --- part: smti left #osdev 17:09:36 --- quit: mur ("Murr.") 17:10:29 --- join: trans (gmwerq@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 17:10:57 i'm working on a format to describe a natural language in a logical form that is potentially machine readable 17:10:58 hello 17:11:09 has anyone heard of anything similar? 17:11:24 --- join: Prophet_ (~Prophet@pD9FF6134.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #osdev 17:13:26 --- join: jwesley (~jwesley@adsl-18-192-208.mem.bellsouth.net) joined #osdev 17:14:03 --- quit: agony ("%| - Die !") 17:14:49 trans yes but cant remember what it was called and I am sure it wasnt reliced to the public 17:17:03 damn 17:18:56 heheh 17:26:09 --- join: MLHueHue (~MLHueHue@B347c.pppool.de) joined #osdev 17:40:28 --- quit: ToreSB ("changing to Xchat") 17:41:33 --- join: ToreSB (~tore@062016151173.customer.alfanett.no) joined #osdev 17:41:35 I'm back 17:41:42 Ya miss me? ;) 17:43:47 --- quit: MLHueHue ("Client exiting") 17:43:49 you were gone? 17:44:37 awww... :P 18:01:02 --- quit: redblue (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:03:58 You know, I have zero idea as to what to do 18:06:34 you could send me money 18:06:41 money? where?? 18:08:37 email it 18:08:40 :D 18:13:37 --- part: DRF left #osdev 18:18:52 --- join: asymptot1 (asymptote@12-208-222-49.client.attbi.com) joined #osdev 18:18:57 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:19:08 --- part: asymptot1 left #osdev 18:27:26 --- quit: Patrick_W ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 18:29:41 yeah, mail me monay 18:33:07 --- quit: ToreSB (Remote closed the connection) 18:39:53 --- join: nickname03 (ident@203-219-179-14-nsw.tpgi.com.au) joined #osdev 18:40:17 --- quit: ToreSBed ("Lost terminal") 18:40:57 --- quit: wcstok (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:41:29 --- quit: jwesley ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030624]") 18:42:12 --- quit: draq (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:58:02 --- join: kyelewis (~kye@220.240.66.217) joined #osdev 18:58:09 you still there air? 18:59:35 ya 19:00:12 ugh, better off talking here, someone or something is playing games with me on t-net 19:00:23 you wanted something? or not? 19:00:36 kyelewis: check yer email 19:03:02 --- quit: seunosewa () 19:23:05 --- quit: mrMister ("gone") 19:24:58 --- quit: kyelewis () 19:44:40 --- join: trans (avdyca@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 19:56:06 --- join: witten_ (~witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-199-140.mminternet.com) joined #osdev 19:57:31 --- quit: witten (Remote closed the connection) 19:57:35 --- nick: witten_ -> witten 19:58:08 --- quit: newbs (Client Quit) 20:11:07 gmorning 20:13:15 Morning 20:16:14 --- quit: nullify ("Client exiting") 20:29:10 --- quit: trans (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:29:14 --- join: zephir (~sdebnath@12-222-128-171.client.insightBB.com) joined #osdev 20:29:32 heya fellas, anyone know how to look at code around a certain addy in the bochs debugger? 20:31:16 why do you need to do that? 20:31:25 you have your original binary, right? 20:36:28 yeah 20:36:44 readelf ? 20:38:14 objdump -d 20:38:38 heh 20:38:46 * Slowcoder smiles when geist passes out my tips&tricks 20:39:26 Err, wrong.. readelf -a was my trick.. 20:39:48 Slowcoder, thats what I did, but it only gives you start of function addy 20:39:53 geist is right :) 20:39:56 again and again 20:40:18 I know.. I just thought I told geist about objdump -d, but it was readelf -a... 20:40:35 ooookie 20:41:44 Damn, when you teach geist something, you've godda' remember it.. Not exactly every day.. 20:42:55 true that 20:52:24 --- join: kyelewis (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 20:52:34 good, that's over with 20:53:01 air: there were a couple of problems with that site, but i'll look into them... thanks for actually putting in time to do that though 20:54:09 very nice of you 20:55:06 alright, time to get some grub 20:55:29 hehe 20:55:33 heya geist 20:59:59 --- quit: kernel-panic ("zZzZzZzZz") 21:05:35 * geist just got some chinese takeout 21:05:38 mmm mm good 21:05:42 hehe 21:06:09 kyelewis: what problems? 21:06:25 the background of the top bit for a start 21:07:12 eh? 21:07:25 i dunno 21:07:26 the background doesn't continue the entire way along 21:07:38 the left image is there, and the right image is there, but nothing in between 21:07:39 what browser? 21:07:52 internet explorer, as you should already know 21:07:59 hrm 21:08:07 * geist wonders what kyelewis is talking about 21:08:23 kyelewis: i'll look at it when im finished playing 21:08:32 the conduet page that air converted over to css stuff 21:08:44 ooooohh 21:09:26 i'll post a screenshot of it on my site in a sec 21:09:49 well, i got a usb transfer working last nite on ohci 21:09:54 --- quit: idle (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 21:09:54 :) 21:10:00 I managed to send a hub a GET_DESCRIPTOR command and it responded 21:12:05 did u have to provide grub before it talked to you? 21:12:38 no I slapped it around a bit 21:12:42 hehe 21:12:49 typical geist I guess ;) 21:13:13 air, you own osdever.net? 21:13:23 http://kts.id.au/conduet/files/cndt-css.PNG 21:13:56 * geist jumps all over that picture 21:14:01 lol 21:14:07 totally there to suck all his bandwidth 21:14:10 damn website looks nice 21:14:18 in fact, I'll refresh it just to grab it again 21:14:21 hehe 21:14:24 I did that too 21:14:27 hold down F5 21:14:38 REFRESH WAR! 21:14:43 http://www.kts.id.au/conduet/html/ is where the page was before, it's a frames page 21:14:44 Hells Yeah!! 21:14:55 * geist grabs the picture for a third time 21:14:57 lol, it's not doing much ;) 21:15:12 * zephir wonders if I can host there 21:15:13 we're totally going to run .au into the ground 21:15:16 ha 21:15:18 hah 21:15:27 do you know how big the southern cross cable link is? :P 21:15:40 it's a monkey on a boat 21:16:23 at the moment it's 240 Gigabits :P 21:16:29 geist I should use CVS again, so I can start cursing again 21:16:35 so you must have one hell of a connection there ;) 21:16:36 i am forced to at work 21:16:38 * geist traceroutes to his site 21:17:07 yep, san jose to sydnet adds 150ms 21:17:12 sydney even 21:17:22 heh 21:17:26 that's about right 21:17:59 actually the biggest leap is somewhere in melbourne 21:18:12 biggest leap to where? 21:18:18 oh not this time 21:18:20 in ping times 21:18:26 it went from 200ms to 500ms a sec ago 21:18:36 i said to *where*;P 21:18:45 to your site 21:18:50 from here (san francisco) 21:19:07 the leap was between these two routers 21:19:08 pos2-0.wsr01-coll-mel.comindico.com.au 21:19:13 fe0-0.wsr02-coll-mel.comindico.com.au 21:19:23 yeah, there's a lot more melbourne routers than there used to be 21:19:36 damn comindico.com.au 21:19:41 those guys just suck 21:19:49 it used to go me <--> mel router <--> sydney router <--> sydney router <--> international 21:20:15 geist: they're behind my ISP's visp setup :P 21:20:28 it's sjc -> scn (?) -> syd -> mel -> mel -> mel -> untraceable 21:20:29 ozforces are just a reseller for comindico dsl 21:20:41 where sjc is san jose 21:20:48 about 60 miles south of here 21:21:08 but there are 16 hops from my dsl to sjc :) 21:21:50 i get pings of around 195ms to the closest point in the US 21:22:01 i see i can't tracert you either 21:22:06 to the end 21:22:24 stops at Danger-Research.cust-rtr.pacbell.net, at about 200ms 21:22:37 well, that's basically the last hop 21:22:43 I have icmp ping disabled at the box 21:22:49 well then, 200ms isn't bad 21:23:02 but I was tracerouting from my dsl a minute ago, which takes 16 hops to get to cominico 21:23:03 and traceroute isn't allowed in either? 21:23:07 I'm trying from a machine at work 21:23:14 traceroute just pings each hop to get the time 21:23:50 ick, it takes 17 hops to get to comindico from machine at work 21:35:44 --- join: blah_kye (~kye@dsl-217.66.240.220.lns02-dryb-mel.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #osdev 21:35:49 --- nick: blah_kye -> kyelewis2 21:37:02 --- quit: kyelewis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:37:09 --- nick: kyelewis2 -> kyelewis 21:55:58 --- join: f0g (~f0g@RJ197135.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #osdev 21:58:11 --- join: trans (srtyoo@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 22:53:40 --- quit: zephir ("I will scratch you on my Technics SL - 1200") 23:02:12 --- quit: trans (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:03:40 Slow morning.. 23:37:01 kyelewis: thats weird 23:38:52 kyelewis: the colors in yer screenshot are a lot darker than what my browser shows 23:39:10 kyelewis: but if i squint i can see that they arent the same color in my browser 23:39:18 hmm 23:39:19 odd 23:39:35 is the background of that png all one color? 23:40:02 it's supposed to be, but i don't think it is 23:40:16 but i had 23:40:46 http://www.kts.id.au/conduet/cndt_top_loop.PNG iirc 23:40:52 hmm 23:40:55 let me get the right filename 23:41:00 bg 23:41:08 that's right 23:41:20 i removed it 23:41:27 i will add it back 23:41:28 so i noticed 23:42:18 ahh, the bg is not one color 23:42:31 not quite, no 23:42:36 i switched to 640x480 and it shows every multicolored pixel 23:43:11 i can see that on my LCD, ugh 23:43:20 and the _bg png is not the same color 23:43:41 the _bg png matches the two side png's 23:44:07 not here 23:44:37 both pngs have two shades of brown 23:44:45 let me make them solid color in my graphics program and see how it looks 23:44:46 hmm 23:45:05 the shades are equal in the side pngs but the _bg png has more light brown than dark 23:46:00 --- quit: f0g ("[BX] I theenk I need a beeger box!") 23:46:52 * kyelewis sends update to his server 23:52:33 slow xfer? 23:52:41 no, i'm just doing other things too 23:54:02 blargh 23:56:56 i personally think theit creates a bit of an effect 23:57:02 s/theit/it/ 23:57:34 also, you put the side bar the same color as the top links bar 23:57:44 i assume you think it looks better that way? 23:58:19 --- join: trans (rfsqqu@fatwire-201-147.uniserve.ca) joined #osdev 23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/03.10.03