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#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present
#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021
all other channels are on OPN/FreeNode from 2004 to present
http://bespin.org/~qz/search/?view=1&c=osdev&y=18&m=5&d=14
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03:18:09 <sahibatko> Hi, I am looking for someone who managed to enumerate hardware devices on Hyper-V, gen 2 (UEFI). I cannot seem to find the MCFG table to start with, so I wonder what path to go...
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04:51:31 <Vercas> I'm at work and I've got no tasks assigned to me. :|
04:51:40 * Vercas is eager to tackle new challenges and all that jazz.
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04:52:13 <Vercas> Also I unfucked interrupts in my kernel.
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04:53:45 <Vercas> My issue continuous recursive page faults. The #PF handler has an IST so it never overflowed the stack into a #DF or triple fault.
04:53:49 <Vercas> issue was*
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05:07:52 <izabera> now fuck them again
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05:12:24 <Vercas> izabera: That's the plan!
05:16:42 <Vercas> Came up with an interrupt-handling system that I can use in both kernel and userland to services devices with near-minimal latency while keeping stack usage and lock contention low.
05:18:18 <Vercas> service*
05:18:23 <Vercas> Butterfingers.
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05:28:38 <klange> rudimentary copy/paste in my terminal~ https://i.imgur.com/YOkDk9o.png
05:29:12 <klange> no clipboard in the windowing system yet, so this is local to the terminal, but that'll change soon enough
05:31:08 <Vercas> klange: Noice.
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05:58:31 <klange> copy from ps https://i.imgur.com/fK33DOI.png
05:58:38 <klange> paste into bim https://i.imgur.com/tUg1CoV.png
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06:03:22 <klange> need to fix pasting unicode into bim...
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06:34:38 <klange> my editor is so sloooow
06:34:47 <klange> doesn't help that it, uh, redraws everything every time you insert a character...
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06:36:48 <izabera> maybe it would be fast if you had job control
06:37:01 <klange> it would not be any faster with job control, go away
06:37:12 <klange> at least present real reasons to implement job control!
06:37:40 <izabera> you could pause other programs running on your machine and dedicate more resources to your terminal
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06:38:14 <klange> that makes literally zero sense
06:39:35 <t3hn3rd> Wow, this Job control thing sounds great, tell me more!
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06:42:57 <aalm> izabera, ... it's not invented there, you know...
06:43:36 <t3hn3rd_afk> lmao
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09:59:00 * geist wakes up, is pickle rick
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10:26:11 <absurdistani> IM PICKLE RICK!!!
10:27:03 <Ameisen> doug16k - I have float24... partially working
10:27:08 <Ameisen> doesn't generate the best code though
10:27:42 <geist> absurdistani: wait no i'm pickle rick
10:27:53 <Ameisen> seems to be handling truncation by generating a lot of ror/lsl instructions
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11:45:31 <lachlan_s> Great, it crashes sometimes.
11:49:51 <doug16k> Ameisen, nice. yeah, without a double-word shift (like x86 shld/shrd), barrel shifting a multi-word value can end up being compiled as a single-bit-rotate through carry loop, particularly when the shift distance is dynamic
11:50:10 <lachlan_s> But only sometimes
11:50:55 <doug16k> Ameisen, you might want to special case the common distances and see if the compiler can do better with known shift distance
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11:51:47 <doug16k> perhaps a template that takes the distance as a compile-time-constant int template parameter
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11:54:31 <doug16k> the point of the template is to avoid it inlining it too much, all shifts of that distance can share it
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11:59:29 <lachlan_s> Whoops, figured it out
11:59:40 <lachlan_s> geist: Does fuchsia have a global list of processes?
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12:31:53 <matviy> I linked a 64-bit ELF on an x86_64 machine and can kexec into it without issue
12:32:26 <matviy> When I move the file to another x86_64 machine, i get "Cannot determine the file type of a.out"
12:32:40 <matviy> (when loading w/ kexec)
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12:33:26 <matviy> file a.out shows ELF 64-bit LSB executable x86-64 statically linked not stripped
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12:34:07 <matviy> kexec says that it supportx ELF-x86 files, which afaik should be both 64-bit and 32-bit executables
12:35:02 <bcos> Whose "kexec"?
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12:38:41 <bcos> Regardless of whose "kexec" it is; the file format is just scratching the surface - there can be special extra (required) information in the file format's headers, there has to be an agreement on how information is passed from old kernel to new kernel, etc.
12:39:33 <bcos> ..and depending on whose "kexec"; all of this stuff can be volatile (e.g. break every time the kernel is updated to a new major version)
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12:39:38 <matviy> kexec --load on the machine i moved the file to outputs "Cannot determine the file type of a.out"
12:39:54 <matviy> But on the machine i compiled/linked it on, it works
12:40:03 <bcos> ?
12:40:10 <bcos> Did you try reinstalling FreeBSD?
12:40:26 <matviy> Both are running x86_64 linux
12:41:55 <matviy> Hmm, maybe it is a kernel thing, but I would have thought that a simple elf64 file would be portable?
12:41:58 <bcos> Ah, so it's Linux's "kexec". Are you able to find any kind of standard saying how it's upposed to be implemented for Linux?
12:42:18 <matviy> Sorry, didn't realize you were asking about the OS
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12:42:48 * bcos wouldn't be too surprised if kernel is supposed to start in 32-bit (to make it more similar to the pre-existing "Linux Boot Protocol")
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12:51:29 <bcos> Hrm
12:51:41 <bcos> matviy: Potentially interesting: https://lwn.net/Articles/603116/
12:51:42 <bslsk05> lwn.net: Reworking kexec for signatures [LWN.net]
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13:51:24 <lachlan_s> Yeah, turns out processes were getting deallocated while running!
13:52:31 <geist> yeah that'll do it
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14:16:24 <lachlan_s> Scope issues, mainly
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14:17:12 <lachlan_s> geist: Where does fuchsia put the handle for the init process? Does it just hang out in the object table and not get used?
14:18:20 <geist> it holds its own ref, so if it dies it'll probably get cleaned up
14:19:46 <lachlan_s> Okay, cool
14:20:13 <lachlan_s> Does each process have a handle to itself?
14:20:26 <geist> it doesn't have to, but in general yes
14:20:38 <geist> it's usually part of the initial message to the process: here's a handle to yourself and the initial thread
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14:26:39 <lachlan_s> I found my favorite comment so far about nebulet: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8jfew6/nebulet_a_microkernel_that_implements_a/dyzaqje
14:26:41 <bslsk05> www.reddit.com: nebulet: A microkernel that implements a WebAssembly "usermode" that runs in Ring 0. : programming
14:26:58 <lachlan_s> Someone posted it on r/programming
14:28:10 <geist> rad
14:28:26 <pounce> lmao
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14:28:56 <lachlan_s> Yeah, I think it's pretty funny
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14:29:47 <Brnocrist> Normally, this would be super dangerous, but WebAssembly is designed to run safely on remote computers, so it can be securely sandboxed without losing performance.
14:29:57 <Brnocrist> what..
14:30:05 <lachlan_s> I mean, it is
14:30:07 <lachlan_s> That's true
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14:34:11 <lachlan_s> Brnocrist: https://webassembly.org/
14:34:12 <bslsk05> webassembly.org: WebAssembly
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14:36:01 <Brnocrist> I know this shit..
14:36:13 <pounce> hey lachlan_s is nebulet smp
14:38:04 <lachlan_s> pounce: Not yet
14:38:08 <lachlan_s> Probably later this summer
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14:38:48 <pounce> hmm, you have a bump allocator still, right?
14:39:09 <pounce> also how's the unit testing coming along? Mine is almost done and I might be able to port it over if you'd like
14:39:36 <pounce> I'm running into lifetime issues everywhere in my scheduler and it's terrible.
14:40:08 <lachlan_s> Nah, got rid of the bump allocator a while back
14:40:15 <lachlan_s> Currently using the rust port of dlmalloc
14:40:29 <lachlan_s> Yeah, it'd be great if you could port over the unit testing
14:40:56 <lachlan_s> Also, my scheduler works pretty well, so you can take a look at that if you want inspiration
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14:42:35 <lachlan_s> pounce: Here's what my scheduler looks like: https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet/blob/master/src/task/scheduler.rs
14:42:36 <bslsk05> github.com: nebulet/scheduler.rs at master · nebulet/nebulet · GitHub
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14:43:19 <peterbjornx> anyone here happen to be familiar with 8086 fastcall?
14:43:33 <peterbjornx> does it use bx as a link register?
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14:47:58 <pounce> lachlan_s: what's the reason for #[repr(transparent)] on your ThreadRef
14:48:28 <lachlan_s> It probably doesn't need to be there, but I just wanted to make sure that rust treated `ThreadRef` as the wrapped ptr.
14:50:48 <pounce> Why keep a ThreadRef instead of a Box anyway?
14:51:41 <pounce> (or transmute between Box and *mut T when you can just use the alloc functions themselves)
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14:52:31 <Barrett> lachlan_s, how can running a software in ring 0 be a good idea in general?
14:52:57 <lachlan_s> pounce: ThreadRef just makes moving around the pointer easier
14:53:06 <Barrett> I mean, you can design your web assembly in the best way possible
14:53:09 <lachlan_s> You don't need it, but it's qol, at least for me
14:53:30 <Barrett> but bugs exists, and when they are exploited, code can run in ring 0.
14:53:34 <lachlan_s> Barrett: Since the wasm is sandboxed, and the compiler and runtime is (presumably) correct, it should be safe
14:53:39 <lachlan_s> Yes, but bugs get fixed
14:54:10 <Barrett> sure, but suppose there's a 0 day for your sandbox
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14:54:40 <Barrett> you can't never be sure there aren't critical bugs.
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14:54:45 <lachlan_s> That's true!
14:54:52 <lachlan_s> But it's the same for regular oses
14:54:54 <Barrett> that's the whole point of memory protection
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14:55:32 <Barrett> it's not exactly the same...
14:55:34 <Barrett> but OK
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14:56:09 <lachlan_s> You're right, it's not exactly the same
14:56:17 <pounce> I think your kernel is cool, but I don't know why there aren't any newlines on the end of any of your files :P
14:56:27 <lachlan_s> It's probably vscode
14:57:20 <pounce> evil microsoft propaganda
14:57:47 <lachlan_s> ^
14:58:00 <pounce> I'm going to send a pr to you with only newlines >.>
14:58:03 <Barrett> memory protection makes running code in ring 0 from a userspace process very hard, and we will not consider address randomization and other things which makes things a lot more difficult
14:58:29 <Barrett> the project is interesting, I just don't think running it in ring 0 has so many advantages at all
14:58:36 <lachlan_s> pounce: I'll accept it lol
14:58:47 <lachlan_s> Barrett: I mean, I can see why you think that
14:58:56 <lachlan_s> It's definitely a valid view
15:00:02 <pounce> oh no, there are carriage returns too
15:00:31 <lachlan_s> Yepppp
15:00:33 <Barrett> however I find very interesting the idea of creating a virtual target architecture with little overhead
15:01:24 <Barrett> that'd be like putting the advantages of C and the JVM in one thing
15:01:44 <lachlan_s> Pretty much
15:02:01 <Barrett> I'm not sure it can work well in pratice like in theory : )
15:02:35 <lachlan_s> Barrett: Have you heard of singularity os?
15:02:56 <Barrett> yeah
15:03:21 <Barrett> but it was abandoned I think
15:03:35 <lachlan_s> Sorta
15:03:50 <lachlan_s> They took it apart to work on a predecessor called Midori
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15:04:52 <lachlan_s> It was actually really successful for what it was
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15:05:09 <Barrett> my whole impression, in general about OSes is that as long as we run it on a ram machine with memory hierarchy there's little to invent
15:05:10 <bcos_> It was research (never intended to be used by normal people)
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15:05:34 <Barrett> even microkernels never demonstrated their superiority
15:05:35 <lachlan_s> Doesn't hurt to try "new" things!
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15:05:39 <Barrett> sure
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15:06:08 <lachlan_s> And, while I can't be sure, this does sidestep a lot of the issues that plague microkernels
15:06:26 <bcos_> How?
15:06:40 <Barrett> new ideas are always nice and worth to try, sure
15:07:17 <bcos_> The issues that plague microkernels are the same as the issues that plague anything that isn't Windows or Linux - no users = no software = no users = no software = ...
15:07:17 <lachlan_s> As far as I can tell, the frequent context and ring switching in microkernels can make them significantly slower for some things
15:07:25 <lachlan_s> That too!
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15:08:37 <bcos_> I wouldn't say significantly slower (especially now that monolithics are doing KPTI), but they do trade speed for security
15:09:29 <Barrett> I think, if you are going to implement everything on top of a webassembly vm, I think you need to replicate in sw memory protection mechanisms
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15:09:43 <Barrett> that'd be very slow
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15:10:21 <lachlan_s> What do you mean by that?
15:10:22 <bcos_> Heh - no threads, no SIMD? It's going to be slow anyway...
15:10:42 <lachlan_s> Also, wasm is getting simd at some point
15:10:45 <lachlan_s> And threads
15:11:13 <chrisf> at some point?
15:11:28 <lachlan_s> Yeah, soon(TM)
15:11:42 <pounce> ok so I'm a bit of an assembly noob. How do I push a `(uint64_t) 0` onto the stack?
15:12:04 <lachlan_s> `push qword 0` probably
15:12:08 <geist> pushq $0 if on at&t syntax
15:12:20 <pounce> I did that and it deref'd null lachlan_s >.>
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15:12:58 <lachlan_s> `pushq 0` should work
15:13:31 <Barrett> lachlan_s, apps even if written in webassembly should need some memory protection
15:14:02 <lachlan_s> Sure, you can just use hardware protection on regions of their linear memory.
15:14:57 <bcos_> Hrm
15:15:04 <pounce> lachlan_s: that does `push QWORD PTR ds:0x0` which I think derefs 0x0
15:15:13 <pounce> also geist's doesn't compile... (inline asm is weird)
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15:15:34 <geist> well you a) havent specified what arch you're building for and b) what syntax you're using
15:15:47 <bcos_> lachlan_s: I'm not convinced - if they support threads and SIMD in webassembly, then everyone is going to use it for "cryptocurrency miner injection" and then everyone will block/ban webassembly in all the browsers\
15:15:51 <geist> so i'm *assuming* x86-64 and at&t syntax
15:16:23 <pounce> I /think/ it's x64 at&t, but it's weird because inline assembly. I can also specify intel which is what I normally do
15:16:36 <geist> well, then i dunno what you're trying to do
15:16:44 <lachlan_s> bcos_: People already use js for mining, and most people don't block js
15:16:53 <geist> why would you possibly want to push something in inline assemlby? that's almost always a terrible idea
15:16:59 <geist> unless you pop it right back
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15:19:08 <pounce> I'm trying to push a fake error code for an isr (also this is some naked function/macro hacking for making isrs)
15:19:17 <Barrett> does ring 0 support memory protection at all?
15:19:21 <pounce> ...maybe I'll just go write it in assembly
15:19:24 <pounce> Barrett: yes
15:19:36 <lachlan_s> Yea
15:19:58 <geist> note there's a cr0 bit you have to set (i thik it's in cr0) to cause supervisor mode to fault properly on pages
15:20:17 <bcos_> Barrett: Intel added a new thing to make up for monolithics sucking (supervisor mode access prevention)
15:20:18 <geist> and then there's the furner SMAP stuff that lets yuo cause supervisor code to fault on user pages
15:20:40 <lachlan_s> Yep
15:20:51 <Barrett> ok
15:21:03 <pounce> cr0 |= (1 << 16)
15:21:11 <geist> yah that one. WP bit
15:21:28 <geist> otherwise i guess supervisor mode just blows through all permissions
15:21:42 <pounce> I have cr0 |= (1 << 31) | (1 << 16) in my bootfile
15:21:43 <geist> modulo whatever SMAP does as well
15:21:58 <geist> the WP bit is just one of those things you always set
15:22:00 <pounce> geist: why would you want it to fault on user pages?
15:22:19 <geist> pounce: to protect against stray accesses from kernel space to user space
15:22:29 <geist> if user space is mapped ath the same time (which it is on most systems)
15:22:46 <geist> smap was added somewhere around sandy bridge as an additional protection for the kernel to give itself
15:22:49 <pounce> how would you read from userspace though for all the syscalls that require it?
15:23:09 <pounce> I can think of a few ways, but they don't seem great
15:23:13 <geist> you can temporarily disable it via the AC EFLAGS register
15:23:23 <pounce> ah ok
15:23:33 <geist> basically the more or less unused AC bit gets recycled for this purpose when SMAP is enabled
15:23:43 <geist> and they added clac/stac instructions to let you quickly clear/set it
15:24:10 <geist> SMAP is enabled via bit 21 in CR4. SMEP is bit 20, and is related
15:24:25 <geist> supervisor mode cannot execute any user page
15:24:47 <pounce> he clac, he stac, but most importantly he is not vulnerable to userland attac
15:25:11 <geist> or he get SMAPped upside the head
15:25:30 <lachlan_s> Well said pounce
15:25:56 <geist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_register#CR0 actually has a pretty good summary
15:25:56 <bslsk05> en.wikipedia.org: Control register - Wikipedia
15:26:08 <geist> i love how it just generally assumes yuo want to look up x86 control register
15:26:18 <geist> vs the millions of other kind of control registers found on other hardware
15:27:09 <geist> eh, what is going on with the Cr9/CR10 stuff there? VAD deep fry check? eh?
15:27:50 <geist> ah looks like some sort of vandalism i think
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15:28:02 <ZephyrZ80> Hello.
15:29:34 <bcos_> geist: Page history: "revert vandalism - there's no cr9 and cr10" then "undid revision"
15:29:38 <geist> yah
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15:29:47 <geist> here's your opportunity to shine!
15:29:51 <geist> revert the revert
15:30:22 * bcos_ can't even remember his login details for wikepedia :-(
15:30:27 <ZephyrZ80> Revert all revisions on a revisionary basis.
15:31:13 <geist> but but something is *wrong* on the internet!
15:31:17 <pounce> lachlan_s: where are your `interrupt!` and `interrupt_stack!` defined?
15:31:27 <Barrett> rotfl
15:31:38 <bcos_> geist: That's why I'm thinking of inventing "Internet version 2.0" :-)
15:31:53 <pounce> >rotfl < ah! This is the instruction I was looking for
15:32:02 <bcos_> (now, with no anonymity whatsoever!)
15:32:29 <lachlan_s> pounce: `src/arch/x64/macros.rs`
15:35:15 <pounce> https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet/blob/master/src/arch/x64/macros.rs#L78 < beautiful
15:35:17 <bslsk05> github.com: nebulet/macros.rs at master · nebulet/nebulet · GitHub
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15:36:14 <lachlan_s> pounce: Yeah, I was using that to find the offset of a field in a struct before
15:36:21 <lachlan_s> Not using it anymore, I think
15:36:45 <pounce> I'm surprised there isn't a mem::offset_of tbh
15:36:48 <Barrett> bcos_, I guess that's a completely decentralized internet using an imaginary compression algorithm
15:37:09 <Barrett> and solving problems mathematically untractable
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15:37:37 <lachlan_s> Yeah, surprises me too, but that's how I did it back when I did a lot of c and it works in rust too
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15:39:25 <pounce> I also thought (0 as *const T) was UB, but I guess not
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15:41:17 <pounce> btw, do you use a separate kernel stack for all interrupts? How does that work with changing stacks all the time in your scheduler
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15:43:06 <lachlan_s> Right now, it doesn't switch stacks for interrupts since stacks can't get corrupted
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18:29:31 <ZephyrZ80> Is there any reason to not use the LEAN filesystem for a (very) simple OS?
18:31:09 <Mutabah> General support?
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18:32:01 <ZephyrZ80> It's going to be for an 8-bit computer, so cross-compatibility isn't much of an issue.
18:36:01 <latentprion> Shining happy people holding haaands
18:36:11 <latentprion> Shining happy people laughing~
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18:45:06 <latentprion> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H20W0e_oSM
18:45:07 <bslsk05> 'R.E.M: Shiny Happy People (Lyrics)' by GermanLyrics98 (00:03:45)
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19:00:39 <geist> word
19:10:14 <ZephyrZ80> Adjective
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19:22:19 <geist> dword
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19:24:53 <ZephyrZ80> Long
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19:30:29 <Ameisen> millibit
19:30:49 <ZephyrZ80> Trit
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19:35:31 <lachlan_s> Figured out another weird issue where the wasm compiler was getting confused which function signature corresponded to what
19:35:42 * function executes lachlan_s
19:36:11 <lachlan_s> :P
19:37:29 <function> python really needs someone to fix its build system
19:37:29 <function> :(
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19:47:17 <lachlan_s> Python has a build system?
19:48:47 <Ameisen> better be called egg
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20:37:30 <geist> wait, do pythons not give live birth?
20:40:31 <vdamewood> I thought only mammals and fish gave live birth.
20:40:49 <vdamewood> (And even then, not all of them)
20:41:06 <geist> i thoguht some snakes did too. maybe it's not across the board
20:41:39 <S_Gautam> vdamewood, Platypus lays eggs
20:41:40 <geist> ah a quick grep of the itnernet says that 70% of them do
20:41:54 <S_Gautam> Although the platypus is classified as a mammal
20:42:36 <vdamewood> S_Gautam: Yeah, I know. You might want to work on your logic.
20:43:07 <S_Gautam> Ok
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20:44:13 <vdamewood> geist: 70% live or 70% eggs?
20:44:21 <geist> eggs
20:44:35 <geist> http://www.reptileknowledge.com/articles/article28.php
20:44:36 <bslsk05> www.reptileknowledge.com: Which Snakes Lay Eggs? Which Snakes Give Birth to Live Young?
20:44:37 <vdamewood> So snakes are 30% live? This is news to me.
20:44:42 <geist> BEHOLD THE INTERNET
20:44:59 <geist> i always remember this because we had rattlesnakes in texas and they were known to give live birth
20:45:05 <jjuran> Is it 70% live or 70% Memorex?
20:45:09 <geist> more specifically if you kileld one and cut it up there were a chance that there were babies inside
20:45:23 <geist> so you had to be careful. for some reason that particular nugget of knowledge stuck with me
20:45:59 <jjuran> That's a really cool idea for a final boss
20:46:38 <geist> yah once we cooked a rattlesnake, it was okayish
20:46:40 <S_Gautam> think it's already been used
20:46:42 <geist> not the best meat
20:47:19 <S_Gautam> jjuran, You kill something and then mini-somethings of that emerge?
20:48:08 <jjuran> S_Gautam: Okay, yeah
20:48:15 <vdamewood> geist: Great. Now I'm going to spend all day investibating which animals give live birth and which ones lay eggs.
20:48:21 <vdamewood> investigating
20:48:25 <geist> The More You Know (TM)
20:48:51 <vdamewood> There goes all productivity for the day
20:48:52 <S_Gautam> I once spent an entire day watching brain surgery videos
20:49:10 <geist> yeah it happens. somewhere along the way i started getting Quora emails for some random topics
20:49:26 <vdamewood> S_Gautam: I once spent an entire day watching rocket science videos.
20:49:31 <geist> and they're damn interesting. so there will be some minutae post about the escape hatch on a Bradley tank or whatnot
20:49:46 <geist> or exactly how much yaw you have to give if one engine goes out, etc
20:50:53 <jjuran> S_Gautam: I think this counts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1FbLafFCIQ
20:50:54 <bslsk05> 'Waynes World Contract' by Brandon Kennedy (00:00:35)
20:50:55 <geist> i think i'm mostly signed up for topics about military vehicles and airplanes, apparently
20:51:39 <S_Gautam> Quora is nice, but then there are tons of pretentious people on there that made the experience meh for me.
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20:52:11 <vdamewood> At least Quora isn't as bad as expert sex change.
20:53:31 <S_Gautam> hahhahaha, Experts Exchange is an actual website.
20:54:17 <geist> yeah i'm surprised at some of the fairly decent tech info you get on it sometimes
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20:54:24 <geist> i'm always fascinated about practical minutae
20:54:46 <vdamewood> S_Gautam: Did you not know about them?
20:54:53 <S_Gautam> Nope...
20:54:55 <geist> like, exactly why handholds are in one spot on a tank or car, or the little phone receiver that was on the back of some tanks in WW2 so you could as an infantry talk to the occupants
20:55:05 <S_Gautam> This seems like another CodeProject/StackExchage/StackOverflow
20:55:23 <geist> how much braking is done with a thrust reverser, why it only is in the inner engines in a 4 engine plane
20:55:33 <vdamewood> S_Gautam: Yeah, they're often on lists of bad domain names. Originally they were expertsexchange.com and well, people got the wrong idea.
20:56:24 <vdamewood> S_Gautam: Yeah, Experts Exchange came around, did some fishy things with google's spider. And Stack Exchange came around to be a better Experts Exchange.
20:57:09 <S_Gautam> the whole SEO thing is almost an industry now
20:57:13 <S_Gautam> so many shady companies
20:57:20 <S_Gautam> offering to list your website on top
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21:23:16 <toaru-user> testing a new irc client
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21:24:19 <jjuran> vdamewood: Maybe people didn't get the wrong idea. Maybe they were tired of seeing expertsexexchange.com show up in their search results and then not provide any information without signing up.
21:25:40 <vdamewood> jjuran: I'm pretty sure both were happening. But they were quick to change their domain name to experts-exchange.com.
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21:26:30 <vdamewood> jjuran: Wait! expert sex exchange?
21:27:16 <jjuran> If that's an offer, I need more context
21:28:03 <vdamewood> jjuran: You typed 'ex' twice in your URL, so it says expert sex exchange instead of experts exchange or expert sex change.
21:28:08 <jjuran> Oh, oops. Freudian typo :-P
21:30:38 <vdamewood> Either way, it's a horrible site, and I'm glad it's now showing up in my Google searches, anymore.
21:30:44 <vdamewood> s/now/not/
21:31:03 <jjuran> We are now responsible for typographical errors.
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22:17:27 <toaru-user> Hello, friends, I'm running toaru base 1.3.0-c7f1f0c nih May 15 2018 13:34:44 i686
22:17:33 <klange> yay
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22:20:56 <geist> grats
22:21:34 <Mutabah> Nice
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22:50:09 <geist> so i was thinkin...
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22:50:28 <Mutabah> That sounds dangerous
22:55:30 <klange> and there's some server-side clipboard functionality~ https://i.imgur.com/deugqDy.png
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23:36:14 <geist> _mjg_: oh wow, got around to running the syscall test on an atom D330 machine (1.6Ghz)
23:36:44 <geist> 3508069 getuid per second, nopti
23:36:48 <geist> pti..... 650k
23:37:13 <Mutabah> So, factor of 5 decrease?
23:37:39 <geist> would appear so
23:38:01 <geist> now of course that's for the most trivial syscall you can make, so it's probably less overhead, percentage wise, for a substantial syscall
23:38:31 <geist> but the atom should be about the worst you can get. it's a slow in order machine + no PCID to help it
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23:44:06 <geist> note even the fast version is like 450 cycles
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23:48:10 <_mjg_> huh, i knew atom is slow, but man
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23:49:06 <geist> yah those syscalls must be microcoded pretty slowly
23:49:40 <geist> sometimes you can get faster detailed implementations of thigns for in order machines like that, but i guess not since the syscall path has all those load/stores and whatnot which are probably hard to do right
23:50:00 <_mjg_> now i'm curious how sparc is doing in this regar
23:50:01 <_mjg_> d
23:50:35 <geist> i do have freebsd on this same atom, will give a try in a sec
23:50:41 <geist> and netbsd for that matter
23:50:58 <geist> this is my 'slow box that i have nothing else to do so i may as well just install one of everything' machine
23:51:46 <_mjg_> note that anything but recent -current kernel will be extra slow
23:52:06 <geist> what changed?
23:52:42 --- quit: oaken-source (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
23:53:01 <_mjg_> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=333241
23:53:03 <bslsk05> svnweb.freebsd.org: [base] Revision 333241
23:53:06 <_mjg_> and some other stuff in the area
23:53:09 <geist> 529k, so a bit slower than the pti version on linux
23:53:36 <_mjg_> the above change will *probably* close most of the gap
23:53:55 <geist> with the 3.5m?
23:54:38 <_mjg_> whoa, wait
23:54:52 <_mjg_> fbsd *without* pti is slower than linux *with* pti on this box?
23:54:58 <geist> yep
23:55:03 <_mjg_> 8S
23:55:06 <_mjg_> what kernel is this
23:55:17 <geist> 11.1-RELEASE-p9 it seems
23:55:35 <_mjg_> ok, that should be legit (as in no debug or othe crappers)
23:55:45 <_mjg_> that definitely looks significantly more broken tha nexpected
23:55:58 <_mjg_> can you please: kldload hwpmc
23:56:03 <geist> sure
23:56:18 <_mjg_> pmcstat -S CPU_CLK_THREAD_UNHALTED.REF_XCLK -T
23:56:24 <_mjg_> and run the bench in another terminal
23:56:45 <_mjg_> note that pmcstat support for various microarchs is rather poor, so it is quite possible there are no counters for atom
23:57:05 <geist> invalid arg
23:57:13 <_mjg_> in which case scratch it (but i will note there is someone working on an automagic way to import from the linux database)
23:57:26 <geist> pmcstat: ERROR: Cannot allocate system-mode pmc with specification "CPU_CLK_THREAD_UNHALTED.REF_XCLK": Invalid argument
23:57:34 <_mjg_> pmcstat -S unhalted-core-cycles -T
23:57:37 <_mjg_> does this one work?
23:57:42 <_mjg_> if not, screw it
23:57:55 <geist> seems to
23:58:19 <_mjg_> just let the testcase run and kill pmcstat in the middle
23:59:04 <geist> https://pastebin.com/cNg8u6xq
23:59:04 <bslsk05> pastebin.com: PMC: [unhalted-core-cycles] Samples: 241794 (100.0%) , 0 unresolved %SAMP IMA - Pastebin.com
23:59:15 <geist> ah so it's using pti maybe?
23:59:26 <geist> hence the Xfast_syscall_pti?
23:59:32 <_mjg_> 6.4 kernel Xfast_syscall_pti
23:59:35 <_mjg_> yea
23:59:51 <geist> so that makes sense then, it's basically 10-15% slower than linux on pti, and that's your bcopy
23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/18.05.14