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00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/18.05.25
00:00:42 <bcos> promach_: I'd probably start by getting rid of "fork()" and switching to a single-threaded thing that does a "write()" then a "read()"
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00:14:19 <bcos> promach_: Hrm - that actualy might be part of your "strace affects my final result" problem - e.g. the scheduler giving the processes CPU time in a different order, causing "read()" to happen first and then "write()"
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00:22:57 <promach_> bcos: http://forum.xillybus.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1597#p1597
00:22:58 <bslsk05> forum.xillybus.com: The Xillybus Forum • View topic - problem with user_w_write_128_wren
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00:23:52 <bauen1> the number of TODO and FIXMEs in my kernel is approaching 100 but everything's fine, I have an almost working UHCI driver
00:24:17 <_mjg_> i just don't add these
00:24:37 <_mjg_> is this how you get a better comment/code ratio?
00:24:40 <_mjg_> :)
00:25:00 <bauen1> yes rofl
00:26:04 <bauen1> according to cloc 10% of my lines are comments
00:26:13 <_mjg_> http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/geekandpoke/2008/07/good-comments.html
00:26:14 <bslsk05> geekandpoke.typepad.com: Geek And Poke: Good Comments
00:26:19 <bauen1> probably the multiboot.h file
00:26:42 <geist> that's not bad
00:28:30 <_mjg_> so i got 4 people asking me for the paper https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-all/2018-May/164318.html
00:28:31 <bslsk05> lists.freebsd.org: svn commit: r334197 - head/sys/kern
00:28:35 <bcos> promach_: Step 1) Get read and write to actually work (without pain and confusion caused by not being able to debug or diagnose problems easily because of using multiple separate processes). Step 2) Worry about making it scale to multiple CPUs after you've figured out why it keeps blowing up
00:29:01 <bauen1> well the comments in multiboot.h account for 1.5% of my LOC so it's not _that_ bad
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00:29:38 <promach_> bcos: actually I have done step 1) in loopback manner successfully
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00:35:11 <bcos> promach_: Then you could assume that the problem/s are either the FPGA or the forking?
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00:47:04 <promach_> bcos Mutabah: http://xillybus.com/downloads/doc/xillybus_host_programming_guide_linux.pdf#page=38
00:47:10 <promach_> f multiple threads are not possible or desirable, certain programming techniques can be utilized to mimic the behavior of multi-threading, but the programming paradigm is nevertheless multi- threaded
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00:53:14 <bcos> promach_: Just ignore that and spend 2 minutes writing an "open; open; while() { write(); read();}"
00:54:00 <promach_> you mean single process with single thread ?
00:54:05 <bcos> Yes
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00:54:30 <bcos> It will be fine, it just won't get absolute max. performance (because of not writing while reading)
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00:56:05 <bcos> Then; after that works correctly, you can think about using asynch IO or threads (but not fork - I veto that.. ;-)
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01:00:35 <promach_> ok
01:00:51 <promach_> why not fork() ? ;)
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01:07:52 <bcos> promach_: Fork is an ugly prehistoric thing from before threads were invented; and will complicate everything later
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01:12:51 <Mutabah> (using fork will fork everything up)
01:13:04 <Mutabah> (so tell it to fork off)
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01:55:51 <bauen1> so I'm currently working on a UHCI driver, for the framelist, etc ... do the pointers need to be physical or are the virtual memory addresses good enough ?
01:56:42 <bcos> bauen1: Physical
01:57:07 <bauen1> awww
01:57:53 <bcos> Assume there's 10 different CPUs with 10 completely different virtual address spaces, where USB controller has no access to any of the CPU's CR3
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02:42:57 <exezin> having a real hard time setting up higher-half paging :s
02:43:43 <Mutabah> First time paging is always a bit of mental gymnastics
02:43:53 <Mutabah> What parts are you having problems with?
02:44:01 <exezin> setting up the actual tables themselves
02:44:19 <exezin> I have to left-shift the address of the next table in the tree by x amount before adding it I think
02:44:24 <exezin> but im really not sure at this point, just entirely confused
02:45:01 <exezin> https://i.imgur.com/RAyxMWH.png
02:45:07 <exezin> based on this I left-shift by 12
02:46:06 <exezin> I'm only inserting a single table and somehow 'info tlb' in qemu is printing a LOT of tables
02:47:56 <bcos> For long mode you need 4 things (PML4, PDPT, PD, PT) and if any of them contain "left over junk" (e.g. because you forgot to fill it with zeros) the junk ends up magnified
02:48:24 <exezin> yeah I've got it working fine for identity mapping
02:48:36 <exezin> and for this I'm actually using 3 things and not using PT because I'm doing 2MByte pages at PD
02:48:54 <bcos> Ah - Ok
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03:04:08 <exezin> well im stumped
03:05:54 <exezin> no wait im not
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03:14:04 <exezin> no yeah I am, lol
03:14:06 <Mutabah> No, you're exezin, not stumped
03:14:16 <exezin> .-.
03:14:47 <Mutabah> Want to share a code sample? Or are you still figuring things out?
03:15:13 <exezin> sure
03:15:23 <exezin> its a horrible x86_64 subroutine
03:15:33 <exezin> https://hastebin.com/raw/idiwuniruj
03:15:40 <Mutabah> Reading your comment earlier - You don't need to shift any addresses (except maybe if you're trying to break a virtual address into table indexes)
03:15:41 <exezin> bit messy where I'm debugging parts
03:16:07 <exezin> thats exactly what I'm doing
03:16:23 <exezin> I need to break the virtual address into indexes so I can then setup the page tables needed for the given address
03:16:25 <exezin> https://i.imgur.com/RAyxMWH.png
03:16:34 <Mutabah> Tip - Just create your first tables with `dd`/`dq` statements
03:16:39 <Mutabah> Don't try to runtime generate them
03:16:45 <exezin> wat
03:17:01 <exezin> well I'm doing it specifically to make enough just to fit the kernel
03:17:02 <Mutabah> So, that address field - It's just bits M-1 to 12 of the address
03:17:12 <Mutabah> Not the address shifted left by 12
03:17:20 <exezin> what really?
03:17:39 <exezin> thats confusing as hell
03:17:44 <Mutabah> Because the addresses are always aligned to 4KiB (12 bits), the bottom bits in the feild are used as flags
03:17:51 <exezin> oh
03:17:56 <exezin> so no shifting
03:18:03 <Mutabah> So, to set an entry, it's just `address | flags`
03:18:18 <exezin> IT WORKS
03:18:21 <exezin> YOU GENIUS
03:18:44 <exezin> ffffffff80000000: 0000000000200000 --P-----W
03:18:46 <exezin> woot
03:19:37 <Mutabah> :)
03:19:53 <Mutabah> It's a pretty common mistake, don't feel bad
03:20:18 <exezin> thanks, now I need to debug this weird nasm problem
03:20:21 <exezin> wait not nasm, ld
03:20:30 <exezin> boot/arch/x86_64/lmstart.asm:(.text+0x15): relocation truncated to fit: R_X86_64_PC32 against symbol `kernel_main' defined in .text section in build/kernel/arch/x86_64/kernel.o
03:20:50 <exezin> (it wont let me directly call kernel_main which is at the higher-half virtual address)
03:25:39 <exezin> oh right, load into a reg first
03:29:57 <exezin> lol it dies as soon as I make the jump to higher half, rip
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03:32:53 <Mutabah> yes, rip is involved :)
03:33:01 <exezin> not really sure why
03:33:25 <Mutabah> is it the jump, or the enabling paging that makes it fail?
03:33:29 <exezin> the jump
03:33:32 <exezin> everything else seems fine
03:33:53 <exezin> paging has been enabled for a while at this point because the first 2MB is identity-mapped
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03:36:22 <Mutabah> Checked the target of the jump? Made sure that it's 1. correct, and 2. mapped?
03:36:36 <exezin> yeah, I think I'm doing the jump wrong or something
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03:41:39 <exezin> hm no, IP seems correct
03:50:54 <exezin> check_exception old: 0x8 new 0xd get this when qemu dies
03:50:58 <exezin> thats #GP right
03:51:47 <exezin> and a page fault etc, guess its a paging issue :(
03:53:15 <Mutabah> First is a double fault,
03:53:19 <Mutabah> What's before that?
03:53:26 <exezin> sorry other way
03:53:36 <exezin> firt its 0xe and then 0xd
03:53:47 <exezin> so page and then general protection fault?
03:53:50 <Mutabah> Yep
03:53:55 <exezin> balls
03:53:59 <Mutabah> Most likely because there's no IDT
03:54:06 <exezin> oh
03:54:10 <exezin> wait, why would I need that?
03:54:12 <exezin> (at this point)
03:54:13 <Mutabah> So, the PF is firing on something, does that dump show the CR2 value?
03:54:21 <Mutabah> Oh, the GPF is because no IDT
03:54:25 <Mutabah> the PF, no idea
03:54:26 <exezin> CR2=ffffffff80000000
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03:54:48 <Mutabah> Well, that says that that addres is the cause of the fault...
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03:55:01 <exezin> hmm
03:55:20 <exezin> cn.telia.com) has joined #love
03:55:22 <exezin> oops
03:55:27 <exezin> ffffffff80000000: 0000000000200000 --P-----W
03:55:34 <Mutabah> Is that just before the jump?
03:55:37 <exezin> yes
03:55:45 <exezin> 1 instruction before the jump
03:55:57 <exezin> looks correct to my eyes
03:56:26 <Mutabah> can you single step into the jump?
03:56:32 <exezin> uh
03:56:43 <exezin> how do I do that with qemu :p
03:58:21 <exezin> oh, gdb
03:58:23 <exezin> ill give it a go
03:58:47 <exezin> wait
03:58:52 <exezin> it crashes so fast how will I do this lol
03:58:59 <exezin> can gdb step past a hlt?
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04:00:10 <Mutabah> Maybe if you edit the instruction to a no-op :)
04:00:25 <exezin> from within gdb?
04:00:30 <Mutabah> Yeah
04:01:03 <exezin> uh
04:01:20 <exezin> that seems super complicated, Mutabah
04:01:29 <Mutabah> yeah, sorry :) was taking a punt
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04:01:46 <exezin> is there no other way to do this with gdb
04:01:48 <Mutabah> This is where things get messy, sadly
04:01:53 <Mutabah> Not sure
04:02:26 <Mutabah> ooh, there's a `jump` command in gdb?
04:02:27 <promach_> bcos Mutabah : using "write() first then read()" using totally sequential manner also yields the same issue of non-returning read()
04:03:29 <exezin> Mutabah: hm, no symbol file is loaded
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04:05:36 <Mutabah> Hmm...
04:05:40 <bcos> promach_: Cool (makes it easier to figure out what's going on). Next I'd assume device isn't sending as much data as you expect, so read() blocks waiting for more
04:06:03 <Mutabah> exezin: When doing the jump? Put a * before the address
04:06:14 <Mutabah> (or try that, gdb can be quirky)
04:06:50 <exezin> when?
04:06:52 <exezin> when gdb is open?
04:06:53 <Mutabah> exezin: https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/gdb/Jumping.html#Jumping
04:06:54 <bslsk05> sourceware.org: Debugging with GDB: Jumping
04:06:56 <Mutabah> yeah
04:07:03 <exezin> it just says no symbol table is loaded
04:07:16 <exezin> s/table/file
04:07:21 <exezin> no yeah, table
04:07:45 <Mutabah> and that blocks it from starting?
04:07:46 <Mutabah> Huh.
04:07:52 <exezin> starting? what
04:07:57 <exezin> its already at the hlt opcode
04:08:00 <exezin> i connect gdb
04:08:32 <exezin> start qemu -> it sits at hlt -> start gdb -> connect it -> type 'jump .test' -> "no symbol table loaded"
04:08:47 <Mutabah> Ah, yeah, that means that it doesn't know that address
04:08:58 <bcos> exezin: Try "jump 12345"
04:09:06 <Mutabah> You need to figure out the correct address, maybe add 1 to PC?
04:09:51 <exezin> bcos: same error
04:11:22 <bcos> Wait..
04:11:34 <bcos> exezin: Do you just want to step by one instruction (like "stepi")?
04:11:34 <Mutabah> might need the *
04:11:45 <exezin> Mutabah: that gives a syntax error actually
04:11:50 <exezin> bcos: i have no idea
04:11:53 <Mutabah> actually... would step work across a hlt?
04:12:20 <bcos> Not sure - it might wait for an IRQ before reaching the next instruction
04:12:27 <bcos> ..but could always replace with NOP
04:12:42 <exezin> stepi doesnt really do much
04:12:45 <exezin> just sits there waiting
04:13:11 <bcos> The other alternative would be to load a symbol table and then cry when you realise there's no symbol exactly after the HLT
04:13:13 <bcos> ;-)
04:13:36 <Mutabah> which is why I suggested an address
04:13:38 <exezin> not really sure how to do that
04:14:08 <Mutabah> `jump *0x1234567` ?
04:14:16 <Mutabah> (replace with the next instruction)
04:14:32 <Mutabah> Or, `set $pc = ...` and do a stepi
04:14:35 <exezin> how do I figure that address out lol
04:14:41 <Mutabah> Disassembly
04:14:43 <bcos> Ah - "guess the wingdings" - I've played this game before.. :-)
04:14:55 <Mutabah> :)
04:15:01 <bcos> ..maybe "jump $0x123456" :-)
04:15:10 <Mutabah> exezin: Getting a disassembly of your kernel is usually a good idea
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04:27:34 <exezin> Mutabah: well I did that
04:28:04 <bauen1> exezin: do you have a ELF of your kernel ?
04:28:14 <bauen1> you can give it to gdb so it can read symbols from ther
04:28:15 <bauen1> *there
04:28:29 <bauen1> and you can start qemu with -s -S so it will wait for you to connect gdb
04:28:35 <bauen1> break kmain
04:28:38 <bauen1> c
04:29:02 <exezin> uh
04:29:09 <exezin> I mean im not even sure what im looking for at this point
04:29:22 <exezin> the kernel main function is 100% at the right higher-half address in the file
04:29:28 <exezin> (disassembled with radare2)
04:30:30 <bauen1> uh you may want to compile your kernel with debugging (cflag -g)
04:31:45 <exezin> aye good point
04:32:08 <bauen1> is your kernel open source ?
04:32:19 <exezin> I mean it will be if I ever get anywhere
04:32:25 <exezin> I can pastebin files if you want there arent many
04:32:46 <bauen1> well, getting higher-half mapping to work is further than 90% of all people ever manage to go :thumbs_up:
04:33:09 <exezin> lol, well im not exactly there yet but im close..thanks :p
04:33:23 <exezin> info tlb appears to be correct but im getting a page fault
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04:34:37 <bauen1> also, when you see the check_exception old: 0xffffffffffff new: 0xXX the block above should contain v=0xXX and right of that there is the EIP that caused the interrupt
04:35:05 <bauen1> the error_code is also important
04:35:10 <exezin> you mean the next line down? if so its
04:35:11 <exezin> IP=0008:ffffffff80000000
04:35:46 <exezin> and I dont see error code anywhere
04:36:57 <bcos> Sigh.
04:37:09 <bauen1> e=0000 is the error code
04:37:24 * bcos is wondering if osdev.org should send "Privacy policy changed" nonsense emails out to everyone
04:37:24 <bauen1> The wiki explains the meaning of the error code: https://wiki.osdev.org/Page_fault
04:37:25 <bslsk05> wiki.osdev.org: Page Fault - OSDev Wiki
04:37:48 <bauen1> bcos: well you'll be a lot nice than most companies for informing people of the change
04:37:55 <exezin> oh
04:38:01 <exezin> e=0009
04:38:20 <bauen1> so the address in CR2 isn't mapped
04:39:04 <exezin> but 'info tlb' shows that it is
04:39:06 <exezin> :s
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04:40:09 <bauen1> can you paste the last 3-5 blocks of interrupts ?
04:40:26 <exezin> https://hastebin.com/sebozicubo.makefile
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04:40:46 <bcos> (so far I've got a "privacy policy change" email from google, stack overflow, imgur.com, no-ip.com, a car parts retailer, two different computer parts suppliers, and almost everyone else that I've glanced at for more than 5 seconds in the last decade)
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04:41:01 <bauen1> oh
04:41:11 <bauen1> either join them or don't
04:41:39 <bauen1> can you post the code that sets up the tables ?
04:41:53 <exezin> https://hastebin.com/raw/afaluciril
04:42:37 <exezin> given the current size of the kernel (empty funtion) it just maps a single 2M page at p2
04:48:27 <bauen1> I don't really know how PAE paging works, so you might have to get someone who did a high-half-mapped kernel to check if the code is correct
04:48:41 <exezin> https://i.imgur.com/luTiTkg.png
04:48:53 <exezin> basically this (from the holy bible)
04:50:26 <exezin> hm im maybe seeing an issue, ill try something out
04:51:14 <exezin> bauen1: fixed it
04:51:17 <exezin> am a pleb
04:51:34 <bauen1> how ?
04:51:52 <exezin> two lines in each chunk of ; map p4 -> p3 and ; map p3 -> p2
04:52:01 <exezin> I was multiplying by 8 (the entry size)
04:52:09 <exezin> because im a pleb
04:52:31 <exezin> I went one step to far with translating the address :p
04:52:39 <bauen1> oh don't worry, I spent 1 week figuring out why my gdt with a length of 0 wasn't working, you're doing just fine lol
04:52:48 <exezin> lmao
04:52:52 <exezin> welp, hello higher half \o/
04:54:58 <exezin> tested on real hardware as well and it works fine
04:57:21 <promach_> bcos: so, it is not due to fork() ?
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05:06:52 <nuvola> hi all
05:06:58 <lachlan_s> I should be able to use a binary tree to sort waiting threads, right?
05:07:21 <lachlan_s> *sleeping threads, that is
05:07:24 <nuvola> weird question, what is the advantage to have a kernel bin compiled dynamically instead of static bin?
05:08:51 <bcos> promach_: If the problem is the same with and without fork, then the problem isn't due to fork
05:09:19 <promach_> just want to double check: Commenting out this line https://gist.github.com/promach/9d185d35a6e6db0da10992a19c36f754#file-host-cpp-L17 which is similar to using "write() first then read()" in totally sequential manner also yields the same issue of non-returning read().
05:09:21 <bslsk05> gist.github.com: C++ test code of HLS computation kernel for both Xillybus and RIFFA PCIe framework · GitHub
05:09:34 <bcos> lachlan_s: Yes (but binary trees cause far too many cache misses whenever you try to find anything - more fun to use unsorted buckets)
05:09:44 <bcos> nuvola: Maybe KASLR
05:10:04 <bcos> (Kernel Address Space Layout Randomisation)
05:10:16 <nuvola> bcos: is it not applicable with static bin?
05:10:38 <lachlan_s> bcos: what about a b*tree?
05:10:54 <nuvola> anyway I see some not KASLR kernel also compiled dynamically
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05:14:22 <promach_> bcos: it could be due to the size of my fpga hardware fifo , not sure ..
05:15:48 <bcos> nuvola: I'm not a fan of any tree data structure - they all have the same "pointer chasing" problems
05:16:19 <bcos> promach_: Unlikely. More likely is that "read()" has nothing to read because the FPGA sent nothing to host
05:16:48 <lachlan_s> Btrees have much better cache characteristics then binary trees
05:18:08 <promach_> fpga sent nothing ? what ?
05:18:22 <bcos> lachlan_s: Part of the problem here is that a lot of timer events (e.g. for networking time-outs, etc) are deleted before they expire; so you don't want to waste CPU time sorting them until just before they're going to expire (if they still exist by then)
05:18:51 * promach_ is going to debug the fpga logic coding
05:19:13 <bcos> lachlan_s: The "buckets" idea is to just stuff them into unsorted buckets; and then sort the bucket when the bucket becomes the next bucket
05:20:18 <bcos> *when the bucket becomes the next bucket containing events about to expire next
05:22:21 <lachlan_s> bcos: So, the unsorted buckets are sorted by large ranges?
05:22:30 <bcos> Hmm
05:22:45 <lachlan_s> So, all the ones that expire in 20ish seconds in a bucket and so one
05:23:38 <bcos> Imagine you have a bucket containing everything that will happen on a Monday, another bucket for anything that will happen on a Tuesday, ... It might be Monday this week, but might be next week, and might be next year; but it's a Monday.
05:24:08 <lachlan_s> Oh, interesting okay
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05:25:15 <bcos> On Sunday night you rotate your buckets (so "Monday" is the first bucket) and check through whatever is in the first bucket. When checking through you pick out what is this Monday and leave everything that is for other Mondays; and sort the "this Monday" things in order
05:26:14 <bcos> Of course you'd use a much finer granularity for a kernel - maybe 1024 buckets and "bucket_number = expiry_time_in_milliseconds_since_epoch % 1023"
05:27:06 <bcos> D'oh. Either "% 1024" or "& 1023"
05:28:56 <bcos> Anyway, that's the basic idea. The thing is you can probably implement this on top of "linked lists of fixed length arrays", so that maybe 511 events get packed into a page
05:29:34 <bcos> ..and end up right next to each other (maybe 8 events packed into each cache line)
05:31:51 <doug16k> exezin, nice
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05:32:32 <exezin> heh
05:33:20 <exezin> now to draw the rest of the owl eh
05:35:06 <doug16k> exezin, error code bit 3 (value 8) doesn't mean that bit of the error code is reserved, it means that you have a reserved bit set in a page tables
05:36:00 <exezin> perhaps the multiplying by 8 was setting that flag
05:36:02 <doug16k> the cpu strictly enforces reserved bits in page tables. if any are set, it faults
05:36:15 <exezin> right
05:37:49 <exezin> I think I'll do the IDT next and then sort out paging properly
05:38:37 <doug16k> the slightest error in the page tables can cause catastrophic memory corruption, so it's nice that it is very strict about the page tables. otherwise, you may not notice a problem until it is far too late to diagnose the cause
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05:38:56 <exezin> yeah makes sense
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05:51:32 * sahibatko has to read this last block of conversation as that is partly what he is doing ATM
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06:17:16 <sahibatko> Duh, everything has to be updated after a jump to higher half, so frustrating, it is like starting from scratch, with only page tables being valid, but nothing else... I feel as it is a test of how well the page-mapping procedures are written, especially the recursive-page-tables-self-mapping part.
06:17:32 <sahibatko> But nevertheless, "Repetitio, mater studeorum" :)
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06:36:22 <grange_c> Hello guys!
06:40:49 <sahibatko> Hello world!
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06:58:24 <sahibatko> Got a question, in 64-bit TSS table, the ISTx and RSPx addresses are linear addresses, not physical ones, right?
06:58:50 <bcos> Yes. virtual addresses
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07:01:45 * sahibatko is puzzled, yet determined to find the pest...
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07:21:27 <sahibatko> Maybe this one could be it: GDT in 64-bit mode is indexed (for LTR instruction purpose) as 4-byte values array or 8-byte values array?
07:23:35 <Mutabah> 8, same as the 32-bit GDT
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07:26:23 <sahibatko> Mutabah: wouldn't same as 32-bit mode mean 4 bytes? I do not doubt your answer, yet it seem strange...
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07:33:35 <sahibatko> gotto leave, but will read the log when Im back on Monday...
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08:20:32 <doug16k> sahibatko, gdt entries are not double sized because in long mode the base is limited to 32 bits (and usually ignored, except for fs and gs) and the limit is always ignored. only tss segments are double sized, it must be able to represent a 64 bit address
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08:21:46 <doug16k> only tss segment descriptors*
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09:06:09 <Sjors> my OS has an ext2 filesystem driver since today!
09:06:28 <Sjors> I wonder how many OSes first have network drivers, then filesystem drivers
09:06:32 <_mjg_> ro does not count
09:06:48 <Sjors> ah darn
09:07:03 <Sjors> just you wait until it can also write
09:07:05 <_mjg_> sorry man
09:07:13 <Sjors> :D
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09:18:09 <bauen1> I just managed to somehow send my first USB-packet :D
09:18:17 <bauen1> and filesystem drivers are overrated
09:18:35 <_mjg_> <hans reiser joke>
09:18:42 <bauen1> as is a bug-free framebuffer driver
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09:32:47 <Sjors> bauen1: oh gosh, nice, USB
09:33:11 <Sjors> I'm pretty far from that
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09:53:27 <bauen1> bcos: if you do send a privacy email, make it funny like travis
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10:01:34 <bcos> bauen1: Maybe a post on the forums (too hard to send emails) saying "We never sucked, so nothing changed".. :-)
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10:08:46 <bauen1> lol
10:09:31 <totallyunknown> mart here, it is appareant that for longer period i have been tried to be killed, and some know that, but the reasons why someone acting as well as me is tried to be killed are not known, no registered feollonies by me ever registered, it is something to do with framing as it has happened before though it seems but with some other innocent person
10:11:49 <bcos> Fact: If someone wanted to kill you, you'd be dead.
10:19:13 <totallyunknown> maybe, but also i am a sprinter type, i have faced enourmous amounts of assaults and tried to be framed, i've been drugger i've been assaulted i have scars, head concassion whatever, and the injuries caused most have died into them
10:19:37 <totallyunknown> so i dunno, why there has been so much anger towards me for past 25 years, and why it is so much tried
10:21:14 <bcos> More likely is that you annoy people with nonsense, so they trick you into thinking they're attempting to kill you (when they're not) or that they're assaulting you (when they're not)
10:22:53 <rain1> hello totallyunknown
10:25:49 <totallyunknown> how is the drugging and 3cmd head concassion, three surgeries fucked up, 6times held in mental institution illegaly qualify as a trick joke
10:26:01 <totallyunknown> not to mention bcos: you have never made sense and ever will
10:28:06 <totallyunknown> i never stepped onto someone heels either, before trying to expose the conspiracy, i never threattened anyone, lived my silent life
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10:33:54 <rain1> hello friend
10:34:24 <totallyunknown> and as said, though military people circulating around me, k-commando skype founder offering me a ride to deathhole, i never understood what the fuck is going on, banned from 2995 from everywhere
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10:34:46 <totallyunknown> not on irc channels, but on places i never been and attended the first time
10:34:51 <totallyunknown> i got instant ban
10:35:05 <totallyunknown> some cocky mofos just lifted me out
10:35:53 <totallyunknown> and close persons have said to me about predictive programming of conspiracy, that thing is simple, it is cockblocking
10:35:58 <rain1> ok
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10:36:31 <totallyunknown> what means i've been tried to be put off cause of quality women respond all the time
10:36:53 <totallyunknown> and basically estonian cockblockers have found it's way to worlds picture
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10:38:03 <bauen1> is that the same person from a few days back ?
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12:16:29 <ybden> bauen1: almost certainly
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12:54:49 <m712> how does modern hardware/opengl frame skip?
12:55:17 <m712> i learned about how the SNES has a NMI for the vsync
12:55:27 <m712> what does VGA do?
12:59:32 <m712> i assume the frameskip mechanism is similar, i.e. (my speculation) the GPU would have some sort of vsync bit, and if the bit is set when the vsync interrupt (?) is fired then the GPU would skip drawing that frame and wait until the bit is cleared
12:59:47 <m712> wait until the next drawing cycle*
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13:10:25 <doug16k> m712, rarely, there is a VGA IRQ that you can use to get vertical retrace notification. GPUs often have an IRQ used for queue management and other purposes.
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13:12:53 <doug16k> GPUs work by queuing commands. the cpu wouldn't sit there and wait for vsync. however, the cpu does have to limit how far ahead it gets, so it may block until fewer than N entire frames of commands are queued
13:15:20 <doug16k> cuda has an example of IRQ driven vs spin wait polling. you can enable IRQ driven completion notification, which has more latency but no cpu usage, or you can burn a cpu spinning on completion and get minimum latency. there's an API to choose which one you want
13:17:00 <chrisf> worth keeping in mind that the 3d & compute side of the gpu is generally pretty separate from the display controller.
13:17:34 <clever> m712: a lot of graphics programs also do double-buffering, render to an offscreen buffer, and then swap the 2 buffers when the vsync irq happens
13:17:38 <doug16k> recent gpus have "dynamic vsync", which means that it repeatedly draws frames as fast as it can, but when the vertical retrace occurs, it keeps the most recent frame and begins to repeatedly draw the "next" frame to the back buffer. this eliminates the latency of vsync that gamers complain about
13:18:16 <doug16k> that trick also wastes a lot of power
13:19:07 <chrisf> doug16k: 3 buffers with a mailbox queue policy is hardly 'recent'
13:19:39 <doug16k> it goes beyond triple buffering. triple buffering gets one frame ahead
13:21:33 <doug16k> chrisf, at what date did gpus start doing that?
13:21:50 <chrisf> doug16k: has been possible for a long time
13:24:40 <chrisf> doug16k: mostly a matter of OS policy rather than hardware capabilities
13:28:37 <chrisf> you're right on it being a crazy waste of power :)
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13:35:39 <chrisf> doug16k: and /no/ latency win over just scheduling your work correctly
13:36:38 <chrisf> (assuming input-to-display latency is the measure that matters)
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13:39:34 <chrisf> (actually scheduling work correctly on a desktop platform that's working against you is left as an exercise)
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22:22:36 <izabera> did you ever consider using something like ipython as your system's only shell?
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22:39:09 <geist> nope.
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23:41:27 <m712> thanks for all that
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