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#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present
#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021
all other channels are on OPN/FreeNode from 2004 to present
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00:00:00 --- log: started osdev/18.07.13
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02:09:11 <lkurusa_> Huh, qemu gives me a #GPF when I do "movl $0x09, %eax; movl %eax, %fs"
02:09:22 <lkurusa_> On the second instruction
02:09:52 <lkurusa_> Other APs have successfully moved their "local AP id" into %fs, those values range from one to eight
02:10:15 <lkurusa_> No #GPF on those, but the number nine seems to cause some problems :( can't find anything in the AMD manuals
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02:27:58 <volat_> hi
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02:28:21 <volat_> does HT used always also if the userspace application is not aware of it?
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02:34:03 <Mutabah> lkurusa_: FS is a segment register, it has to contain a valid value
02:35:02 <Mutabah> 1-7 are probably just ignored, 8 is a valid selector, but 9 doesn't match the permission level required for the first GDT entry
02:35:51 <Mutabah> volat_: HT = hyper-threading? Userspace just sees it as another CPU core (the kernel does too, but there's metadata around that tells the kernel the actual core layout
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02:41:48 <volat_> Mutabah: yes, hyper threading
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02:51:50 <lkurusa_> Mutabah: argh, that would make sense
02:52:08 <lkurusa_> what about %es/%ds/%ss ?
02:52:30 <lkurusa_> The spec says their contents are ignored, but I don't think that's the case
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03:18:02 <Mutabah> lkurusa_: ds maybe... but why are you using a sreg for this?
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03:34:10 <lkurusa_> Mutabah: unsure, I was using IA32_TSC_AUX, but that's not available on a machine I'm targetting
03:34:31 <lkurusa_> Linux seems to store the current AP id in a GDT limit... might give that a shot
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06:53:58 <heat> So, err, I just found the stupidest bug
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06:54:23 <heat> Turns out EFI's SetMem takes params as (buffer, size, value) instead of the standard (buffer, value, size)
06:54:27 <heat> Fuck you EFI
06:54:58 <heat> I spent way too many hours trying to debug this
06:55:03 <heat> without serial or a console
06:56:14 <mischief> hahahaha
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06:58:48 <heat> I was wondering why the kernel was hanging, I thought that maybe it was a fault or something
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06:59:10 <heat> I had to fill the framebuffer with colors so I could see where it was hanging
06:59:26 <heat> guess what, in spin_lock(), for a spinlock inside the .bss
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12:15:57 <Ameisen> Any of you guys familiar with an actual fully-functional ln wrapper for mklink
12:16:07 <Ameisen> I wrote one in ruby, which is about 95% functional
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15:30:31 <absolute123> so hello, dutch people have been good to us...so someone asked about verilog, i was working , this = is sequential assignment , => is continuous assignment, well the most interesting is "assign" keyword, this bloke evaluates the stuff
15:31:03 <absolute123> left hand side for whatever amount of variables, every one of them is evaluated
15:31:32 <absolute123> and the assignment is only done if any of them have changed
15:32:31 <absolute123> so assign and contunous assignment are parallel assignments if i remember correctly
15:32:57 <absolute123> the biggest thing that this other guy did not understand is instances, you can call them in parallel
15:33:23 <absolute123> but loop condition as well as step as loop inputs are fed in sequentially even then
15:33:26 <geist> uh?
15:33:32 <geist> are you in the wrong channel, maybe?
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15:35:02 <geist> not that we dont occasionally talk about verilog here, it just seems out of the blue
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16:07:28 <Ameisen> I don't like building gnu libtool
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16:12:42 <heat> Ameisen: I don't like building gnu *
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17:12:27 <Ameisen> heat - well, there's the wide variety of ways things work
17:12:32 <Ameisen> some things have 'bootstrap', which is awful
17:12:36 <Ameisen> some things have shell scripts to set things up.
17:12:41 <Ameisen> and in general autoconf/automake sucks
17:12:48 <Ameisen> autoconf especially
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17:32:12 <heat> meh
17:32:17 <heat> good autoconf isn't that bad
17:32:30 <heat> shit autoconf is really really bad and depressing
17:33:48 <Lowl3v3l1> my dilemma is : i really like autoconf, i am comfortable with it and m4 ( which might be the most overlooked tool)
17:33:54 <Lowl3v3l1> BUT
17:34:05 <Lowl3v3l1> the library of macros is so antiquated
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17:35:36 <bcos_> Someone should invent the world's first portable programming language, so that autoconf isn't needed
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17:35:56 <_mjg_> node.js :X
17:36:15 <klys> I don't like autoconf much though I can see why it exists, to provide a bolierplate against user error, in free software.
17:36:58 <heat> node.js + js + react.js + json
17:37:03 <heat> absolutely flawless
17:37:09 <heat> r/madlads right here
17:37:22 <heat> don't forget the blockchain too
17:38:11 <Lowl3v3l1> bcos_: portable is relative. especially if yu want sth close to hardware. Is C even portable between os's? nope. I can build trivial examples that aren't using nothing but the core language :/
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17:38:24 <klys> if it was up to me i'd just provide a makefile for each supported target system, like some projects do
17:39:35 <heat> klys: that's too simple
17:39:51 <Lowl3v3l1> autoconf has features no makefile can provide.And would you write batchfiles for windows? :/
17:39:54 <klys> and try my best to eliminate instances of #ifdef
17:40:31 <klys> windows targets are mingw2 afaics.
17:40:44 <heat> setup a node.js server that returns a makefile in JSON form
17:40:48 <heat> that's more like it
17:43:08 <Lowl3v3l1> there's other compilers than mingw
17:43:25 <Lowl3v3l1> visual c++, clang with non-mingw targets...
17:43:32 <klys> well, aufoconf > cmake > autoconf+libtool
17:44:29 <klys> s/aufo/auto/
17:45:11 <heat> visual c++ is far enough from everything that it's normally not supported
17:45:57 <klys> seeing as it's a commerical product, i'd sort of rather support icc
17:47:27 <Lowl3v3l1> for me, vc++ is primarily a good portability benchmark xD but there's lots of users out there
17:49:22 <heat> does vc++ support C99 yet?
17:49:48 <klys> har har ask ##windows iguess
17:50:15 <Lowl3v3l1> it doesn't. But quite a part of c++17( dunno wether full compat yet)
17:51:50 <klys> for your free copy of msvc get em from winworldpc.com never mind the new stuff
17:53:25 <klys> version 6.0 i see
17:54:38 <heat> SVR4, linux 0.01 or NT 4.0 :thinking:
17:55:13 <klys> what do you want to do with it, heat?
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17:56:19 <heat> explore
17:56:28 <heat> poke it
17:57:07 <klys> oh get svr4 iguess
17:57:20 <heat> linux 0.01 seems fun
17:57:24 <heat> SVR4 seems fun
17:57:31 <heat> nt 4.0 seems fun and depressing at the same time
17:57:57 <klys> yeah with linux i'd recommend for folks who want to put it back together again
17:58:26 <klys> and with nt 4.0 i'd recommend for folks who want to reverse-engineer
17:59:16 <heat> klys: thanks for the link btw
17:59:20 <klys> sure
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18:03:21 * CompanionCube never got the SVR4 to boot
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18:04:21 <klys> hmm I had to try a few different boxes before os/2 warp 4 could boor
18:05:12 <klys> and the one it seems to work with is my loud amd-mp box.
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20:07:06 <AIOP> Quick question, the (canonical) .text section contains strictly 32bit (32 bit instruction set) instructions packed together without any space between them, so say mov $t0, $0; mov $t1, 1 would look like `00110100,00000000,00000000,00000000,00110100,00000000,00000000,00000001`
20:07:21 <AIOP> ofc with t0 being placed in the correct byte
20:07:30 <AIOP> So that concatenation is 2 instructions
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20:08:29 <heat> probably
20:08:39 <heat> dunno what arch you're talking about but it sounds correct
20:08:50 <AIOP> mips
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20:09:29 <AIOP> Its risc and I am using ori instruction 00110100 with the following 3 bytes being registers and immediate value
20:09:50 <AIOP> But a .text is just a dump of this unless you put data in there like a weird programmer
20:10:18 <heat> .text can have space between instructions when aligning functions
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20:10:45 <AIOP> Aligning functions to what bounds?
20:10:50 <heat> cache lines
20:10:58 <AIOP> I know not of this
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20:11:09 <AIOP> Link?
20:11:11 <heat> but usually it's just nops
20:11:16 <heat> no link
20:11:27 <heat> it's just an optimization gcc(and other compilers) do
20:11:47 <AIOP> Ahh I should stay away from optimizations for now
20:12:03 <heat> they sometimes align to cache lines and/or native word boundaries
20:12:07 <heat> simply because it's faster
20:12:19 <geist> but that's not necessarily what's happening here
20:12:23 <geist> though it's likely
20:12:30 <AIOP> So my instructions are all word size so I guess it isn't necessary?
20:12:45 <heat> usually all the alignments are done with nops(or whatever it's called in mips)
20:12:49 <geist> they are. it compiler *may* align say the start of a function to 16 bytes or so
20:12:53 <heat> so it's not like you shouldn't care
20:12:57 <geist> but its up to the compiler and what it's compiling for
20:13:01 <heat> *should
20:13:12 <AIOP> I believe nops are universal
20:13:27 <geist> they are, but whether or not they encode to a 0 is not
20:14:03 <geist> note all of this can be easily verified by just looking at what the compiler is doing here by looking at the dissassembly
20:14:53 <AIOP> geist a nop in mips is literally any r-type instruction which can use $0 lol
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20:15:04 <AIOP> add $0, $0, $0
20:15:16 <AIOP> ori $0, $0, $0
20:15:20 <geist> okay, but again you said 'universal' so i pointed out that it isn't universal that it's full of zeros
20:15:55 <AIOP> gotcha idiot check :D
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20:16:19 <geist> note that with mips even the assembler is allowed to stuff additional instructions, something to watch out for
20:16:29 <AIOP> Why do some archs not do nop as a 0'd instruction?
20:16:30 <geist> there are a few assembler temporary registers that it's free to use
20:16:31 --- quit: variable (Client Quit)
20:16:57 <AIOP> geist are you talking about delay slots?
20:16:58 --- nick: CrystalMath -> CodeRain
20:16:59 <geist> and some assembler instructions may or may not encode to more than one machine instruction
20:17:07 <heat> AIOP: Most archs don't do nop as 0
20:17:09 <geist> no. i'm talking about pseudo instructions that mips likes to use
20:17:09 <AIOP> oh I see
20:17:32 <heat> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOP#Machine_set_of_directions
20:17:32 <bslsk05> en.wikipedia.org: NOP - Wikipedia
20:17:46 <geist> it surprised me the first time i saw it, the assembler sometimes chooses different number of raw instructions for certain things
20:17:51 <AIOP> geist yeah those are the ones like mov and stuff which use ori and add and family
20:17:54 <geist> most assemblers on most other arches dont
20:18:00 <heat> nop in mips is sll r0,r0,0
20:18:01 <geist> indeed
20:18:14 <AIOP> heat: I've seen many variations
20:18:34 <AIOP> As long as it doesn't do anything then you have success in wasting an instruction lol
20:18:36 <geist> note there's no particular advantage to nop being any given opcode
20:18:42 <geist> bit pattern really
20:19:03 <geist> so sometimes 0 is nop, most of the time it isn't. it's 0x90 on x86 for example (for a one byte nop)
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20:19:11 <AIOP> unless you are working with ghostly architectures that might recognize nops and optimize something very crappily
20:19:28 <geist> arm64 has a really hard to remember nop instruction
20:19:28 <AIOP> 'I compile using delay slots smartly'
20:20:23 <jjuran> 68K's official NOP is 4E71, but 0000 0000 is also a no-op.
20:20:33 <geist> architectures with delay slots are already pretty shitty
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20:21:27 <AIOP> The only advantage delay slots give is zeroing something that is modified repeatedly so I guess 1 byte of conservation lol
20:21:42 <AIOP> Can help with loops \_(:/)_/
20:22:38 <geist> there's no real advantage except a temporary bump in the road when it made the pipeline ever so slightly
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20:22:59 <geist> it's basically meaningless now, an artifact of early 80s risc tech as exposed to the programmer
20:23:09 <AIOP> I read the reason for these delay slots is also the processor wanting instructions lined up tightly
20:23:26 <AIOP> 'feed me'
20:23:40 <AIOP> Now lets talk about double delay slots
20:23:41 <AIOP> xD
20:24:06 <AIOP> Speaking of dds its a horrible format
20:24:10 <geist> it was simply exposing an internal pipeline bubble to the programmer that happens with 4 and 5 stage pipelines on a branch
20:24:23 <geist> so instead of just stalling for 2 cycles, someone had the great idea of making it a programmers problem
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20:24:35 <geist> so they could eek out one more instruction in a good case, and nop stuff in the bad case
20:24:50 <geist> that may have been nice, but then to be stuck with it 30 years later is a bad architectural decision
20:25:00 <geist> like pretty much everything that has happened to x86 along the way
20:25:07 <geist> some temporary neat idea that you end up stuck with forever
20:25:35 <heat> hey segmentation isn't bad
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20:25:55 <heat> segmentation is cool kids
20:26:32 <AIOP> I got so pissed off over the fact dds files had literally no support online about its file format, I made this https://gist.github.com/tilkinsc/13191c0c1e5d6b25fbe79bbd2288a673
20:26:34 <bslsk05> gist.github.com: C OpenGL DDS Loading Tutorial · GitHub
20:27:03 <AIOP> Pretty sure I also developed it in my main branch of a git project
20:27:30 <AIOP> Segmentation was never learned by me becuase you people
20:27:37 <AIOP> All like 'hey no stay away'
20:27:50 --- quit: graphene (Remote host closed the connection)
20:29:07 <heat> its hey no stay away unless you're using fs and gs
20:29:08 <AIOP> It pains me so much to see comments get fucked by github
20:29:15 <heat> then it's super cool
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20:30:05 <AIOP> I wonder what registers numbers are for me to put in the 32 bit .text instruction
20:30:33 <klys> i had to go and make a doubly-linked list of information that was already in an array
20:30:38 <AIOP> So much doumentation *throws up*
20:30:56 <AIOP> Nice hack bro
20:31:07 <AIOP> Sounds like reimaging of data that is everpresent in java
20:31:14 <klys> yeh then spend all day trying to reach mutual exclusion
20:31:15 <AIOP> 'data type safety'
20:32:11 <AIOP> If I would guess thats why I haven't found any standard linked lists in C
20:32:26 * AIOP also doesn't pay attention to anything
20:32:50 * AIOP cries because made own linked list that I don't want to develop
20:33:04 * AIOP cries because too stingy to use anyone elses libs
20:33:16 <klys> is it in c? use python mebby?
20:33:43 <AIOP> I will use lua arrays and treat them as linked lists instead and transfer data between lua and C before I do that
20:33:50 <AIOP> Yes its c lol
20:34:18 <AIOP> I was so indecisive when I made it that I have a spare parameter that is the data type size if I ever want to clone or something
20:34:31 <klys> well, you're free to go ahead and try it, good luck with that!!
20:34:45 <AIOP> try what?
20:35:11 <klys> well, to make a linked list
20:35:15 <AIOP> https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole
20:35:16 <bslsk05> tilkinsc/LuaConsole - A next-gen, crossplatform [Lua5.1, LuaJIT5.1, Lua5.2, Lua5.3]-supporting interpreter w/ REPL made to support and supersede PUC-Lua and LuaJIT interpreter w/ REPL (1 forks/18 watchers)
20:35:22 <AIOP> Why are people starring this crap program
20:35:29 <AIOP> It doesn't even work with linux ssh reliably
20:36:10 <AIOP> https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole/blob/master/src/darr.c https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole/blob/master/src/darr.h this is my void pointer array program
20:36:11 <bslsk05> github.com: LuaConsole/darr.c at master · tilkinsc/LuaConsole · GitHub
20:36:13 <bslsk05> github.com: LuaConsole/darr.h at master · tilkinsc/LuaConsole · GitHub
20:38:04 <AIOP> I don't go anywhere without my LuaConsole, in the future my OS is going to be lua based
20:38:36 <AIOP> Sadly with my limited space of my walmart fat12 flash drive, I only have like 1.5megs
20:38:55 <heat> ew
20:39:07 --- quit: bemeurer (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
20:39:10 <AIOP> It was free and neat to implement lol
20:39:20 <heat> 1) lua
20:39:24 <heat> 2) walmart
20:39:27 <heat> 2) fat12
20:39:28 --- quit: graphene (Remote host closed the connection)
20:39:31 <heat> 3) 1.5 megs
20:39:37 <heat> absolutely disgusting
20:39:48 --- join: bemeurer (~bemeurer@c-24-6-228-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #osdev
20:39:56 <AIOP> It holds pdfs for walmart employees to wonder how to open
20:40:20 * AIOP download adobe pdf reader
20:40:33 * AIOP suffers malware
20:40:37 <klys> erm, that's a bit bigger
20:41:25 <heat> https://www.amazon.com/PNY-Elite-512GB-Premium-P-FD512PRO-GE/dp/B01E17LOL6/ref=sr_1_1/137-2313614-8539715?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1531539648&sr=1-1&refinements=p_n_size_browse-bin%3A10285020011
20:41:28 <bslsk05> www.amazon.com: Amazon.com: PNY Pro Elite 512GB 400MB/sec USB 3.0 Premium Flash Drive P-FD512PRO-GE: Computers & Accessories
20:41:29 <heat> thicc flash drive
20:41:49 --- quit: variable (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero)
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20:42:33 <klys> I have a nice 128 GiB microSD card in my fablet
20:42:47 <AIOP> uhh no I am not going to buy that flash drive for 150
20:43:22 <AIOP> MB or Mb?
20:43:47 <heat> https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-2TB-DataTraveler-Ultimate-DTUGT/dp/B06X1CSCZB/ref=sr_1_6?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1531539679&sr=1-6&refinements=p_n_size_browse-bin%3A10285020011
20:43:49 <heat> even more thicc
20:43:50 <bslsk05> www.amazon.com: Amazon.com: Kingston Digital 2TB DataTraveler Ultimate GT USB 3.1/3.0 300MB/s R, 200MB/S Flash Drive (DTUGT/2TB): Computers & Accessories
20:44:02 --- quit: graphene (Remote host closed the connection)
20:44:03 <AIOP> So the advantage of linked lists is being able to remove an element pretty easily instead of rotating the whole stack down a slot?
20:44:17 --- quit: zopsi (Quit: Oops)
20:44:33 <heat> the advantage of doubly linked lists you mean?
20:44:34 <AIOP> Before I didn't really mean I made a linked lists, I mean just a void pointer array
20:44:48 <klys> well I have a set of structures in a linked list, each of which points to 16 substructures
20:44:56 <AIOP> A link list is a series of pointers to the next structure, what is doubly about that?
20:45:04 <heat> forget it
20:45:11 <heat> I thought you were talking about doubly linked lists
20:45:32 <klys> it is a doubly linked list of arrays
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20:46:38 <AIOP> klys, so I guess instead of shifting ptr_len*arr_size + n of elements down/up each time you remove/add an element inbetween others you would just recalculate the -1 current and +1 pointer to the next entry struct
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20:47:06 <klys> in order to iterate, I have to start from the top
20:47:20 <AIOP> of
20:47:39 <AIOP> Oh I see what you are saying
20:48:01 <klys> the top is struct trunk { struct limb* members[ 16 ]; };
20:48:08 <AIOP> You have to reference each struct to the next point until you find the one you want
20:48:15 <klys> yeah
20:48:24 <AIOP> So a doubly linked list has a sort of cache?
20:49:10 <AIOP> Or it just allows you to iterate backwards?
20:49:40 <klys> struct limb { struct branch* members[ 16 ]; struct limb* prev,* next; };
20:49:51 <AIOP> Yeah
20:49:57 <klys> you see, that some tough sekk right there
20:50:30 <klys> the list of branches spans beyond the limb.
20:50:43 <AIOP> Would there be any advantage to creating a pointer array in part with that?
20:51:18 <klys> it's implicit which page I have allocated as to which member element I'm using.
20:51:56 <klys> so, I could flatten things by making 256 or 1024 members like paging does
20:52:13 --- quit: heat (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:52:15 <AIOP> One of my favorite features of lua is metatables to where when I index and it fizzles null I can redirect it to a fallback
20:53:20 <klys> yeah like overriding operator[] ?
20:53:39 <AIOP> Yeah something like that
20:53:49 <AIOP> But it works with indexing as a part
20:54:32 <AIOP> tab[1] = 5; would be __newindex and the =function(k, i, v) end would allow me to use k (the table) i (the index) and v (the value) to do some stuff
20:55:29 <klys> and this is all stored on the heap?
20:55:35 <AIOP> tab = {}; setmetatable(tab, {__newindex=function(k,i,v) print("No entiendo k[i]=v; gracias"); end}) tab[1]=5;
20:56:30 <AIOP> The function pointers are stored in the attributes in the subtable of the table you set it to
20:56:34 <AIOP> Thusly called meta-table
20:56:49 <AIOP> This metatable will pop if the correct attribute is nonnull
20:56:54 <klys> right like virtual functions in C++
20:56:59 <AIOP> Yeah
20:58:41 <AIOP> https://ideone.com/RLbQCz
20:58:42 <bslsk05> ideone.com: Ideone.com - RLbQCz - Online Lua Compiler & Debugging Tool
21:00:08 --- join: allight__ (allight@nat/google/x-xqhsdfvfroqmfuud) joined #osdev
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21:01:20 <AIOP> Also, lua is pretty cool with its slang https://ideone.com/RLbQCz
21:01:43 --- quit: glfernando (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:01:56 <AIOP> So yeah my operating system will support this before bash lol
21:02:20 <AIOP> In fact even on my raspberry pi I have my lua console program installed
21:02:30 <AIOP> Most of my build scripts are a fork of each other
21:02:39 <AIOP> (bc fuck make)
21:02:52 --- quit: nj0rd (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
21:03:03 --- quit: allight_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21:03:24 <AIOP> https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole/blob/master/build_func.lua https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole/blob/master/clean.lua https://github.com/tilkinsc/LuaConsole/blob/master/build.lua
21:03:26 <bslsk05> github.com: LuaConsole/build_func.lua at master · tilkinsc/LuaConsole · GitHub
21:03:28 <bslsk05> github.com: LuaConsole/clean.lua at master · tilkinsc/LuaConsole · GitHub
21:03:29 <bslsk05> github.com: LuaConsole/build.lua at master · tilkinsc/LuaConsole · GitHub
21:04:30 <klys> hmm.
21:05:27 <AIOP> Hey I ever built a cache system xD
21:05:37 <AIOP> Date checker
21:06:31 --- quit: zopsi (Quit: Oops)
21:06:50 <klys> I have a pretty long file of thouthgs and pseudocode from today, just no working algorithm yet.
21:07:18 <AIOP> For what
21:08:07 <klys> this data structure is pretty wild. it's for alloc() and free() primitive functionality without paging.
21:08:23 <AIOP> Umm
21:08:34 <AIOP> I'll redirect you to a PSP homebrew setup justasec
21:08:40 <klys> I have something to allocate and free if you have a spare page
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21:10:09 <klys> I occasionally confuse what I am doing with an acrual paging mechanism which has been a cause for consternation on my part.
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21:11:09 <klys> there are a few things the array pointers can have, NULL, BUSY, USED, or a value.
21:12:18 <klys> the BUSY mechanism will use a memory allocation process with threads for each caller.
21:13:00 <klys> the USED thing is for "free" slots or slots relative to the current process.
21:13:18 <AIOP> nevermind couldn't find it
21:13:22 <klys> and NULL means not available.
21:13:54 --- join: glfernando (glfernando@nat/google/x-lskpfndovhzerzid) joined #osdev
21:13:58 <klys> each leaf element refers back to the pid and tells the size via an end-pointer.
21:14:01 --- quit: CodeRain (Quit: Support Free Software - https://www.fsf.org/)
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21:15:43 <klys> so I reserve pid 0 to hold the structure of free physical pages.
21:15:55 <AIOP> I was hacking around trying to find a way to use return addresses without a stack
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21:16:23 <AIOP> That would require sacrificing function depth and limit registers or have a function cache of a lot of registers
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21:16:34 <AIOP> I just wanted it to be fast
21:16:54 <AIOP> Again in mips
21:17:42 <klys> are you using it for anything important?
21:18:03 <AIOP> Using what?
21:18:14 <AIOP> There was a few things I mentioned
21:18:20 <klys> your calling convention
21:18:35 <klys> the one with the return address in a reg
21:18:57 <AIOP> I like to keep everything bare minimum and sacrifice all my temporary registers for a small ass function depth
21:19:08 <AIOP> Or inline ALL functions
21:19:11 <AIOP> aha
21:19:47 <AIOP> I like to keep everything bare minimum*
21:19:54 <klys> that might work for like one level deep of functionality, which is rare to say the least.
21:20:15 <AIOP> Much more realistic than java
21:20:29 <AIOP> for c than java*
21:20:45 <AIOP> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJNcwVuNjM
21:20:47 <bslsk05> 'Butthole Surfers "Dracula From Houston"' by johnisnotdead (00:03:47)
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21:21:56 <AIOP> Should my linked data structure hold references to the last node so I can attach to the end of the last node?
21:22:14 <AIOP> singular reference
21:22:30 <AIOP> That would avoid iterating to the last data structure lol
21:22:30 <klys> well, common pointers include, say, parent, first, last, prev, next...
21:22:34 <geist> that is a common pattern yes
21:23:13 <AIOP> 'include,' = 'includes:'
21:23:16 <AIOP> ?
21:23:35 <klys> I didn't say #include
21:23:47 <AIOP> I was just wondering if that was part of the list
21:24:09 <klys> no that's c preprocessor syntax
21:24:15 <AIOP> 'well, common pointers include: say, parent, first, last, prev, next...'
21:24:18 <AIOP> Is that what you meant
21:24:26 <klys> no
21:24:33 <AIOP> What would include be?
21:24:34 <klys> without "say"
21:24:51 <AIOP> ohh
21:24:52 <klys> then it is
21:24:56 <AIOP> Enrish
21:25:25 <AIOP> 'well, common pointers include... say, parent, first, last, prev, next...'
21:25:43 <AIOP> I understand
21:25:47 <klys> well, common pointers include, say: parent, first, last, prev, next...
21:26:03 <AIOP> yep
21:26:08 <klys> and that's all I can say for now
21:26:25 <AIOP> Those are per node pointers right
21:26:36 <AIOP> or for an iterator?
21:26:54 <klys> parent is per-noew
21:26:57 <klys> parent is per-node
21:27:02 <AIOP> Right
21:27:07 <AIOP> And probably next too
21:27:37 <AIOP> And an iterator/seeker are to be implemented for first last prev
21:27:59 <klys> https://repl.it/@Mdasoh/LoyalQualifiedVertex
21:28:01 <bslsk05> repl.it: repl.it - LoyalQualifiedVertex
21:28:34 <klys> ...if you can read pythin
21:28:41 <AIOP> I can
21:28:42 <AIOP> and it hurts
21:28:55 <AIOP> I can read most languages
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21:31:14 <AIOP> Quick question though: In C, a function pointer consists of a pointer plus the data size of arguments appended to it?
21:32:01 <klange> lol no
21:32:17 <AIOP> Thats what I thot
21:32:31 <klange> C, standards-wise, doesn't define what a function pointer contains - up to the platform.
21:32:32 <AIOP> Why do people claim that function pointers > sizeof(ptr)
21:32:55 <klange> There was a platform that did that, it's why standards-compliant code must not assume function pointers are just regular pointers
21:33:17 <AIOP> thanks ancient platform
21:33:26 <klange> But on x86, on ARM, on... hell just about everything that matters, reality is that they're just regular ol' pointers.
21:33:48 <AIOP> Now its just something to make doc humpers REEE
21:35:45 <AIOP> I have to be careful which irc I am in because when I ask questions people always have me give a thousands reason why I am doing something
21:35:49 <AIOP> before they say anything
21:35:59 <AIOP> 'why do C when you can C++ and use boost for this'
21:36:01 <AIOP> xD
21:36:14 <klange> Boost in the Kernel, now there's an idea!
21:36:16 <bcos_> Hrm. For 64-bit 80x86 function pointers can probably just be 32-bit..
21:37:02 <AIOP> Here I openly say I am creating a dynamically loaded binary into a mips platform and its like oh cool what for
21:37:34 <AIOP> If zid from #asm was in here he would call me an idiot probs
21:39:14 <bcos_> "dynamically loaded binary" sounds easier than hard-wiring the executable in some kind of ROM
21:39:20 <bcos_> ;-)
21:39:23 <AIOP> haha
21:39:46 <AIOP> I am also then going to try to compile rudementary code into proper segments
21:39:53 <AIOP> Fit it in there
21:40:05 <AIOP> Then grab a pure mips emulator or a chip and do it that way
21:41:28 <AIOP> My favorite chip in a pc rn is the vertex/matrix stuff
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21:46:05 <AIOP> klys: Do you know anything about string hashing for lists?
21:48:41 <AIOP> As in per string truely unique hashes
21:49:17 <mischief> do you mean a perfect hash
21:50:30 <AIOP> Yeah
21:51:04 <mischief> there's GNU gperf.
21:54:00 --- quit: graphene (Remote host closed the connection)
21:54:20 <AIOP> Do we have chips in modern boards that automate sha algorithms?
21:54:34 <AIOP> That would be pretty cool
21:55:32 --- join: graphene (~graphene@46.101.134.251) joined #osdev
21:57:39 <klange> I've heard of sha-2 accelerator chips, yes.
21:58:33 <AIOP> Google instantly showed bitmining
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22:07:13 <doug16k> nice, pxe booted my OS on my laptop through my pxe server
22:07:28 <klange> yay
22:07:54 <doug16k> \o/
22:08:54 <AIOP> Does this speed up production?
22:09:31 <doug16k> yes. it shook out a couple of bugs. as usual, incorrect stuff was working on qemu
22:09:54 <AIOP> I always wanted a network OS
22:10:02 <AIOP> Esp because gigabit cables are being wasted lol
22:10:13 <klange> be the change you want to see in the world
22:10:32 <AIOP> Gonna boot from my raspberry pi OS pxe server
22:10:48 <AIOP> Boot brick is its name xD
22:11:27 <AIOP> Requires 1 more network card for internet capabilities
22:12:27 <AIOP> Hotswapping raspberry pi to boot
22:12:54 <AIOP> (but AIOP why not just use a router)
22:13:55 --- join: myvar (~myvar@105.186.208.217) joined #osdev
22:15:04 <AIOP> I host a raspberry pi to boot the latest debian distribution
22:15:47 <AIOP> Forget clogging up your PC's harddisk with an OS bah have it just sit in memory like puppy
22:16:03 <AIOP> MeMoRy Is ChEaP
22:16:39 <doug16k> I put almost $1000 of RAM in my main machine
22:16:53 <AIOP> lol why so much
22:16:58 <AIOP> DDR4 probs
22:17:02 <klange> wowza
22:17:07 <AIOP> 32 or 64 ddr4?
22:17:15 <doug16k> because it was the max. 64GB ECC DDR4
22:17:36 <AIOP> Whats the factory timings?
22:17:40 <AIOP> Err manufacturer
22:17:45 <klange> I'm sitting on at the time, ¥40,000 worth of non-ECC DDR4.
22:17:51 <doug16k> Kingston
22:17:56 <klange> Also Kingston
22:18:05 <AIOP> Manufacturer timings*
22:18:07 <klange> This is a desktop board, so no ECC support.
22:18:23 <AIOP> I learned what ECC was back in school
22:18:35 <doug16k> The fastest ECC I could find that anyone actually had in stock is 2400
22:18:36 <klange> The packages I bought for this are now ¥42,708 *each*, so very close to $1000 myself...
22:19:16 <doug16k> availability falls off a cliff above 2400 for ECC
22:20:39 <doug16k> each one is 16 banks, 64 banks total (crazy)
22:23:43 <mischief> AIOP: intel cpus actually have sha instructions
22:23:53 <doug16k> 64GB isn't actually that much for big parallel builds. with -j16 it's 4GB per compile if all of them are using a lot of ram
22:24:06 <AIOP> oh neat mischief
22:24:39 <doug16k> mischief, intel? AMD does too. did you mean x86_64?
22:25:17 <mischief> they are called Intel™ SHA extensions ;-)
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22:25:42 <doug16k> yeah they call it "intel 64" too, even though x86_64 was solely an AMD invention
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22:26:07 <AIOP> amd and intel arent exactly competitors
22:26:23 <AIOP> They are contributors and compete against fucks like you and me
22:26:32 <AIOP> :D
22:27:03 <AIOP> Nvidia is being led by what pubg and the popular games want to do
22:27:33 <AIOP> So much they release distributions specifically targeting games
22:27:42 <AIOP> driver dist*
22:27:56 <klange> Intel and AMD are in a race to not push things too hard, so they can keep pushing things a little it every year...
22:29:09 <AIOP> CPUs are ancient, we need to switch to pure cuda core operating systems
22:30:10 <AIOP> Starring optional not having to page for those who don't want security
22:30:10 <doug16k> mischief, https://i.imgur.com/LOhPugI.png
22:30:25 <mischief> i like the idea of those motherboards that have xeon phi chips on the mainboard
22:30:27 <doug16k> ^ SHA performance bench
22:31:28 <doug16k> AMD has similarly excellent AES performance. they went all out in ryzen core on encryption instructions
22:33:27 <AIOP> My big black computer has a tan floppy in a bay and rainbow leds in the front
22:33:40 <AIOP> fans
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22:35:09 <AIOP> A computer is not a computer without a floppy in a bay, even if your mobo doesn't support it
22:35:53 <doug16k> any storage device with < 1MB/s throughput goes straight into my garbage can
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22:36:26 <AIOP> There are starving africans out there without storage devices!
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22:38:54 <doug16k> it would be funny to create a 1.4MB RAID 0 array with a floppy disk and an NVMe SSD though
22:39:14 <doug16k> er, 2.8M
22:39:48 <AIOP> Its been since school when I learned what each RAID code was
22:40:18 <doug16k> raid 0 is striping. it would be 2x the speed of the floppy drive
22:41:51 <AIOP> Yeah and that means concatenation of harddrives
22:42:05 <AIOP> So you have a severe bottleneck with a severe not bottleneck
22:42:13 <doug16k> right
22:42:13 <AIOP> Windows: ?!?!?!
22:43:00 <AIOP> Swap partion set with the floppy, but its raid 1
22:43:01 <AIOP> lol
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22:44:28 <AIOP> Time to create a what the fuck system
22:44:49 <AIOP> First priority: delete /bin/sh in favor for /bin/bash
22:44:53 <doug16k> I need to make a serial USB driver for the dongle I have so I can debug log from my laptop back to my dev machine
22:45:40 <AIOP> At one point my laptop had all its ports filled and I could barely get out of bed with it
22:46:36 <AIOP> I have an old XP machine with sub gigahert processor and sub gig ram
22:46:51 <AIOP> its a laptop with a lot of noise
22:47:18 <AIOP> I like minesweeper :)
22:48:33 <doug16k> my laptop is a fairly beefy 3.6GHz 4th gen core i7 with 16GB, 17" screen, GTX 860m, 500GB SSD
22:48:51 <AIOP> gotta hate bottleneck gpus in laptops
22:49:07 <AIOP> We need psi'd gtx 1080tis at least
22:49:20 <klange> my laptop is a surface pro 4
22:49:26 <klange> running Ubuntu 18.04
22:49:36 <AIOP> I don't have money for anything
22:49:52 <AIOP> I am a hobbyist programmer who is self taught and works at a grocery store for minimum wage
22:50:11 <AIOP> 10+ years experience in a lot of things
22:50:23 <AIOP> My ssd is like half a paycheck
22:50:35 <AIOP> Or more
22:50:56 <AIOP> My gpu is 3x my paycheck
22:51:09 <doug16k> I got a fairly powerful laptop as a backup for work in case my main machine goes down
22:51:49 <AIOP> Do you have a home fileserver/
22:51:55 <klange> I should upgrade this desktop
22:51:55 <AIOP> Thats what my pi is
22:53:03 <AIOP> My pi should be set to use its 4 cores to try to WOL each ip it can on the typical port LOL
22:53:15 <AIOP> Wakey wakey
22:53:54 <klange> what should I replace this i5-6600K with
22:53:54 <AIOP> Just have to know their mac
22:54:06 <AIOP> uhhhhhhhh
22:54:46 <AIOP> Does double clicking a word on your browser piss you off becuase it will like ignore typical word concatenators and also include a space in there
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22:55:18 <AIOP> I opened a bug report with firefox because it pissed me off so much one time lol
22:55:21 <AIOP> I was drunk
22:55:22 <doug16k> klange, ryzen 2700x
22:55:30 <klange> that doesn't even make sense
22:56:17 <AIOP> For example, double clicking i5-6600K selects `6600K ` instead of `i5-6600K` and the left side of the - selects `i5`
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22:56:21 <AIOP> When I am trying to copy
22:56:25 <klange> What LGA1151 chipset should I replace this LGA1151 i5-6600K with?
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22:56:48 <AIOP> Mobo swap do it no balls
22:56:48 <doug16k> AIOP, hyphen is a word separator. of course it did that
22:57:07 <AIOP> yes ik but meh
22:57:14 <doug16k> AIOP, double click and hold on the second click and drag - it will select whole words
22:57:15 <AIOP> Its like what_the_fuck does it too
22:57:20 <AIOP> `what_the_fuck `
22:57:24 <AIOP> SPACE
22:58:11 <AIOP> It has the same effect doug16k
22:58:36 <AIOP> Its a typical windows thing to use special characters as delims
22:58:45 <AIOP> and also ctrl backspace isn't supported mostly
22:58:55 <AIOP> delete word damnit not add a backspace character
22:59:09 * AIOP bitch moan whine complain
22:59:14 <doug16k> don't use notepad
22:59:30 <AIOP> notepad++ treats me nicely, but am complaining about browser
23:00:05 <AIOP> Also, ctrl shift + arrow keys or such should swap lines
23:00:32 <doug16k> that varies across editors. sometimes it is alt up/down
23:00:37 <AIOP> yeah
23:00:40 <AIOP> eclipse is that iirc
23:01:03 <AIOP> I am very very heavy on my keyboard shortcuts
23:01:08 <AIOP> I even installed vim on windows lol
23:01:27 <AIOP> \(^-^)/ cross patform
23:02:44 <AIOP> iirc my rpi has nano instead of vim so I fied that
23:02:46 <AIOP> fixed
23:02:46 <doug16k> I got started on virtio-gpu. turns out all the virtio devices use "virtqueues", so I am on a tangent of making a shared base for virtio. should make it much quicker to do virtio block and network later
23:03:47 <AIOP> It would be funny to buy a amd employee to make a driver for your os
23:03:50 <doug16k> can't wait to draw a hardware accelerated triangle in virtio-gpu 3d :)
23:04:14 <AIOP> 'yeah man just do a fork its a standard compliant pc'
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23:05:05 <AIOP> question: do you guys find what I say amusing?
23:05:15 <klange> not really
23:05:20 <klange> i'm not easily amused
23:05:43 <AIOP> I know you throw away hardware <1mb of write speed
23:05:53 <doug16k> that was me
23:05:56 <AIOP> oh
23:06:43 <AIOP> I'm sorry I didn't mean to misnitpick you
23:08:28 <doug16k> klange, do you use freetype for font rendering?
23:08:36 <klange> not anymore
23:08:41 <AIOP> truetype?
23:08:52 <doug16k> klange, what do you use now?
23:10:02 <klange> A method called signed distance fields. Way easier to implement that bezier curve glyphs, though it's only a stop-gap for now.
23:10:34 <AIOP> ahh thats my favorite, actual fonts not glyph rendering
23:10:54 <klange> bezier curve glyphs *are* actual fonts
23:10:57 <klange> that's how truetype works
23:11:00 <AIOP> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnIQEQoHHCU
23:11:02 <bslsk05> 'OpenGL 3D Game Tutorial 32: Font Rendering' by ThinMatrix (00:24:11)
23:11:36 <AIOP> He goes all out in shaders specifically for font rendering
23:12:05 <klange> SDF wasn't meant for screen-space rendering of UI text, but the results sit somewhere around "acceptable", and it's a cheap way to get scalable fonts. https://i.imgur.com/b2p1O27.png
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23:12:53 <klange> (for values of "cheap" equal to "not a lot of code")
23:13:02 <AIOP> that gcc 6.4.0 tho
23:13:53 <klange> better than the 4.6 I was using for years
23:13:58 <AIOP> haha
23:14:26 <AIOP> I complied gcc and recompiled gcc 8.1.0 on my rpi and it was sitting at like 86c for 8+ hours
23:14:32 <doug16k> klange, so it's a bitmap font scaled/filtered with signed distance fields algorithm?
23:14:59 <klange> It's a grayscale bitmap font, but the bitmap isn't the glyph, it's distances from glyph edges.
23:15:16 <doug16k> ah
23:15:22 <doug16k> neat
23:15:25 <AIOP> klange: what is your target arch in qemu
23:15:27 <klange> You can get better scaled results out of this than if you scaled a grayscale bitmap of the same resolution.
23:15:39 <AIOP> for qemu
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23:16:36 <klange> AIOP: x86 w/ kvm
23:17:01 <AIOP> linux inspired?
23:17:06 <klange> ?
23:17:13 <AIOP> Your system
23:17:20 <klange> Yes and no?
23:17:28 <AIOP> Your filesystem*
23:17:50 <klange> My filesystem? it's ext2
23:17:58 <AIOP> File structure
23:18:05 <AIOP> idk
23:18:10 <klange> Why do you care?
23:18:40 <AIOP> Ok I'll go be interested in something else
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23:27:03 <epony> AIOP while you're compiling you can watch an entire season of a tv show, and then your mind is full of so much noise, that you can't connect the dots in the compilation process, start over
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23:27:45 <AIOP> ?
23:31:13 <epony> focus on the keyword "noise" for now
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