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#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present
#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021
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03:07:38 <doug16k> ncurses.h is ridiculous
03:09:25 <doug16k> prototype for attr_on, then a #define for attr_on that calls wattr_on, then a define for attron
03:10:57 <klange> the entire curses api is ridiculous just on the surface, no need to go deeper into an actual implementation
03:12:56 <ecraven> doug16k: hehe, I used it in a lisp FFI, you have to expand all the macros until you get to actual *functions*
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04:39:00 <tasmanio> well yeah i was bit offtarget, well actually there are two writes to regfile anyway, local/warp private writes which happen during the alu execution, and broadcasting to global pool too
04:39:24 <tasmanio> i looked again and this type of backdriving did not happen actually as i described
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05:01:58 <tasmanio> so yeah feels that i am ready, since threadgroups or tb's do not migrate according to docs, than all is good, we could hypthesize that parallel maximum array is proportional to how many wavefronts are available, i am too lazy to do those calculations cause all is depndent of the final shader
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06:21:03 <doug16k> is there really no "nothing will initialize a member in a non-default-constructor" warning?
06:22:38 <doug16k> i.e. you have two constructors, you initialize a member in one, forgot to initialize that member in the other. silently produces code with random value in that member for that 2nd constructor
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07:37:27 <Matviy> I'm confused about the role of PCIe device BAR's. I understand that in classic PCI, all devices were connected to the same bus, so they would all see each other's transactions, and needed to know which address ranges to respond to, which is what BARs did.
07:38:24 <Matviy> But in PCIe, each device has it's own lanes to the PCIe hub, which can simply send transactions to individual devices based on address ranges, so why do devices need addresses in their BARs?
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07:39:22 <bcos> How does PCIe hub determine the address ranges?
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07:39:46 <Matviy> It can be configured into the PCIe hub's config registers by firmware
07:39:56 <bcos> ?
07:40:25 <clever> Matviy: the OS has to choose what parts of the pci device it wants mapped, and where
07:41:00 <Matviy> Sure, and then it can configure those ranges into the PCIe hub for each specific device. Why does the device care?
07:41:23 <clever> what if the device has 2 io ranges?
07:41:33 <clever> how does it know which one your writing to?
07:41:41 <clever> what about inter-device DMA?
07:42:18 <clever> and i think its also about maintaining backwards compat
07:42:36 <clever> PCIe is virtual identical in api to PCI, once the firmware has configured the lane<->slot mappings
07:42:42 <clever> virtualy*
07:42:50 <Matviy> Yeah I was thinking about backwards compatability
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07:43:39 <bcos> Matviy: I think you're confusing 2 different things/layers. First layer is a set of address ranges that determine what gets sent to memory controller and what gets sent to PCI (that would be configured by firmware), where PCIe hub would send all addresses in "PCI ranges" to all devices (to simulate a bus even though there isn't one). Second layer is the BARs (that has almost nothing to do with the address ranges configured in the PCIe hub)
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07:44:50 <Matviy> bcos: ok so on modern PCIe say in an Intel northbridge, the PCIe hub is configured with a _single_ address range to accept, and then it forwards everything written to that range to every single device connected to it?
07:45:30 <Matviy> It feels like it would be more sane to have the PCIe support multiple ranges, one for each separate lane/device it supports
07:46:45 <bcos> It depends on which chipset; and I'd expect that on most it's more like an "access router" with multiple ranges for RAM (where everything that doesn't correspond to RAM gets forwarded to PCI)
07:46:46 <clever> i think i heard something about the hub listening in on all writes to BAR's
07:46:51 <clever> and then using that to route
07:47:35 <bcos> clever: Sounds like a possible (but optional) optimisation
07:49:40 <bcos> Matviy: Note that for some systems (NUMA) it'd be more complex - e.g. that "access router" would have to decide if an access should be sent to local RAM, local PCI, or a link to a different NUMA node
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07:52:12 <Matviy> Thanks for the help, i might look up a northbridge datasheet and do some reading
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07:55:41 <clever> Matviy: if you can find one, toss me a link, id also be interested in reading one
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07:56:26 * bcos isn't sure if there systems that use a northbridge are too old to support PCIe
07:58:05 <Matviy> clever: I have one (http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29068801.pdf) but it doesn't have PCI, has AGP though which afaik is similar
07:58:52 <bcos> Erm. AGP is a quirky hack specifically for video cards
08:01:48 <clever> bcos: i thought that the northbridge has been rolled into the cpu and all pcie lines go directly to the cpu now
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08:02:25 <klys> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Media_Interface "(DMI) is Intel's proprietary link between the northbridge and southbridge on a computer motherboard."
08:02:25 <bslsk05> en.wikipedia.org: Direct Media Interface - Wikipedia
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08:03:00 <klys> I was just wondering how possible it would be to connect two or more PCHs
08:03:29 <klys> though I guess the interface itself is proprietary.
08:05:40 <bcos> clever: "northbridge" and "southbridge" are names that used to be used for old chipsets (for computers that used a shared bus between all CPUs + northbridge). For new computers (which don't have a shared bug and use links instead - quickpath/hyper-transport) most of the functionality from the northbridge got shifted in the CPU and the chip that used to be called "northbridge" no longer exists
08:05:59 <bcos> *which don't have a shared bus
08:06:37 <geist> yah in those cases you may still have devices that exist on an external 'chipset' but they're usually just sitting on the other side of a PCI bridge
08:08:22 <klys> the PCH is said to have supplanted the southbridge, yet everyone knows you can't truly supplant pc standards with proprietary ones.
08:18:26 <geist> not entirely sure what you mean there
08:22:11 <klys> building free computers is a pc thing, so i'm paying attention to the tail end of the market. tell me about the bleeding edge all you want, the details are eventually exposed to freedom.
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08:27:45 <geist> okey dokey, i guess
08:28:40 <klys> well and i'm half asleep, i'll probably read that later and cringe
08:29:45 <klys> whether i'm being sarcastic or not, the pc market seems to be the right place to look for instructive artifacts.
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08:33:04 <klys> installing a fixed number of usb ports in a cpu die seems unneccessarily restrictive, yet I read about PCH being phased out with newer intel chips doing just that.
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08:35:24 <klys> "Rather than DMI, these SOCs directly expose PCIe lanes, as well as SATA, USB, and HDA lines from integrated controllers, and SPI/I²C/UART/GPIO lines for sensors." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_Controller_Hub#Phase-out
08:35:24 <bslsk05> en.wikipedia.org: Platform Controller Hub - Wikipedia
08:36:23 <klys> integrated meaning...yeah, it's on the cpu.
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08:38:03 <bcos> klys: Intel has probably been doing "SoC" for decades (for the embedded market)
08:39:26 <klys> true, I was looking at this earlier: http://www.vortex86.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/dx3-2GB.jpg
08:39:27 <bslsk05> www.vortex86.com: 406 - 用戶端瀏覽器不接受要求網頁的 MIME 類型。
08:40:16 <bcos> That's not Intel.. ;-)
08:40:40 <klys> also true, though you can see it has usb on the same die as the cpu
08:41:03 <bcos> Erm
08:41:17 <bcos> I think the entire point of SoC is that you have a system on a chip.. ;-)
08:41:51 <bcos> (and not multiple chips, like northbrige+southbridge or PCH)
08:42:08 <bcos> ...although
08:42:16 <geist> klys: actually i think its more sophisticated than that
08:42:23 <bcos> It's not really a SoC if there's no RAM built in\
08:42:35 <geist> i believe on both modern AMD and Intel SoCs there are a fixed number of high speed serial links coming out of the soc
08:42:56 <geist> and they can be reconfigured (with some limitations) between pci, sata, usb 3, and maybe thunderbolt
08:43:23 <geist> since they're all basically high speed SERDES links at approximately the same speed, you can reuse the transceiver for different things
08:43:39 <geist> and part of the low level config the bios does for that particular motherboard is configure all the links
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08:44:41 <geist> that's part of why different motherboards will build different versions with differing amounts of PCI slots and other external ports and whatnot
08:45:32 <klys> well, hiding the bus within the cpu die isn't going to help anyone trying to co-op cpus in separate sockets.
08:45:34 <geist> again, modern x86 SoCs, but still it's not all that inflexible
08:46:13 <geist> well, no. not really. both intel and amd have multi socket SoCs, both xeon and modern ryzen (EPYC) designs are SoC with on board peripherals
08:46:40 * bcos isn't too sure there's much difference (at physical/electrical layer) between PCIe, hyper-transport, quickpath and DMI
08:46:40 <geist> the board manufacturer just figures out which socket(s) drive what external busses and peripherals, and stub off the ones that aren't wired up
08:47:27 <geist> bcos: AMD for example uses some of the exact same high speed links to drive external PCIe busses *or* the inter die links on a multi die ryzen chip (threadripper, epyc)
08:47:30 <klys> there you have an example of bus manufacture versus bus standardization.
08:47:37 * bcos nods
08:48:14 <geist> basically yo ucan configure say 32 of your 64 links as 32 PCIe + 32 links to the other die. then in a 2 die config you still get 64 external PCIe links, they're just split across two separate dies, so it looks like two PCIe roots
08:48:58 <geist> and for built in peripherals and PC legacy stuff, *usually* socket/die 0 gets that job, and the other socket/die is just configured with it disabled
08:49:20 <geist> this is based on observations of dual socket xeon workstations and threadrippers (which are functionally like a dual socket machine)
08:49:42 <geist> i have not have direct access to anything larger than that yet
08:53:03 <klys> with bus standardization, I should be able to hook my fpga's integrated mcu (microblaze?) up to a cpu rated at the same speed. with bus manufacture, the mcu is actually expected to be slower, and subordinated to a design unique to the board I use.
08:53:51 <klys> I'm sure you can see somewhat of the difference it would make if we had bus standardization
08:55:10 <klys> the fact is, with older cpus we "had" bus standardization going in motherboards, and they all ended up the same because they were built for the consumer market.
08:57:55 <geist> sure, but we dont. that ship sailed back in the 90s
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08:59:15 <klys> there you have us on the tail end of the market trying to pick up the pieces just to see what intel is putting on it's dies.
09:01:14 <klys> the beneficiary of this kind of research would be at opencores, at least so far that's the one I know about.
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09:02:01 <klys> and the last I looked over the opencores projects, they're still struggling to build a v586.
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09:03:55 <geist> honestly i'm not sure i'd try. you'd likely get sued the moment you make something work well
09:04:04 <klys> :.)
09:04:07 <geist> same weith ARM. dont try to make an arm core, they'll come after you
09:06:46 <klys> making a riscv or coldfire core, hoever
09:06:57 <klys> however*
09:08:12 <klys> and of course i'd integrate it with an intel/amd cpu component
09:08:41 <klys> just not sure how old it'd have to be to make a non-proprietary cpu bus.
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09:10:53 <klys> the idea I've been describing is properly a matter of computer engineering, so it's kind of a school-days throwback. honestly I'd have to work with someone who knows more about electrical engineering.
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09:12:53 <klys> geist, what's you been up to?
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09:16:33 <klys> well thank you for all the information, really appreciate it.
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09:36:40 <geist> not much. vacation time
09:36:52 <geist> packing for trip
09:36:59 <geist> otherwise taking it easy
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10:51:27 <tasmanio> sortie: hello, i had constructive arguments while you were away, glad you allowed me to do it, anyhow i am going to work, i did not find time to discuss about precompilation today, and as i sad glsl compiler separates the two address spaces regs and pointers it does very poor job, but it is easy to change, so bye, if someone has hurt feelings, you just can get over it, happens you know, has happened to me too
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12:09:41 <kingoffrance> i found https://friendup.cloud the other day. normally i hate these type of OS, but they do try to do a less locked-down "cloud"
12:09:41 <bslsk05> friendup.cloud: Friend - The decentralised, open source and device independent computer
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12:10:30 <kingoffrance> it is a sad state of affairs, that despite openstep/java/.net/possibly flash to some extent: all these "write once, run anywhere" the moden thing is just give up and write it in the browser
12:11:01 <kingoffrance> if you want to talk "back in the 90s" that ship never left harbour they just gave up, despite all the hype
12:12:42 <kingoffrance> i find it amusing i suppose "This time we mean it, no really" ...
12:13:46 <sortie> > ICO
12:14:03 <sortie> Scam operating systems go in #osdev-scam
12:14:23 <kingoffrance> you find it scam for "not actually being native code" or there "business model" ?
12:14:59 <sortie> I see ICO and a fundraiser and I pattern match it with the current cryptocurrency scams
12:16:46 <kingoffrance> ah. well it is scams all around there IMO, that is "finance"
12:17:15 <kingoffrance> noone does native money anymore, all "clouded" :)
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12:20:19 <kingoffrance> the business world would have to give up corporations and finance to go "native", so they gave up on that long ago :)
12:22:03 <jjuran> Back in my day, a scam operating system was good, old-fashioned plagiarism.
12:22:17 <jjuran> Like CherryOS!
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12:34:27 <kingoffrance> to this day, i believe openstep/darwin/osx while you can now build gcc cross-compiled, you still need apple "binutils"
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12:35:45 <kingoffrance> i suppose gnustep is all that is left continuing the original idea
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14:21:23 <kingoffrance> im actually surprised there is no "pirateOS" e.g. hosted on the "anonymous" cloud. i mean something with source, but didnt carre to follow any licenses. people have tried to rip leaked windows code, but pirates are too lazy to code i guess
14:21:51 <NightBlade> Yarr
14:22:06 <kingoffrance> or, they release binaries only, and then people worry about backdoors
14:22:19 <NightBlade> you've just given me an idea for a project though...
14:23:00 <NightBlade> wouldn't that stand for PO... nm
14:23:23 <kingoffrance> theyd basically have "anonymous" contributors.
14:23:56 <NightBlade> how exactly is someone anonymous anyway? surely everybody is known to somebody
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14:28:14 <sortie> kingoffrance: See also containers.
14:28:36 <sortie> Also I require a copy of your nobility papers for verification purposes. It's standard practice, you understand.
14:30:25 --- nick: NightBlade -> KnightBlade
14:30:52 <KnightBlade> foolish knave! who dost question th' nobility of the king!?
14:31:28 <sortie> It is I, a board member of the Royal University of Osdev.
14:31:55 <elevated> you better bow to Lord Sortie, He Who Knits Sortix
14:32:06 <KnightBlade> rofl
14:32:10 <sortie> They call me root.
14:32:39 <sortie> But really root is Sortix's monster and Sortix is sortie's monster.
14:32:40 <elevated> make an alias from sudo to sortie? Challenge accepted!
14:32:51 <KnightBlade> Mayhaps thou would'st rather verify the masonry and board-work of yonder donjon?
14:33:42 --- nick: KnightBlade -> NightBlade
14:33:54 <sortie> KnightBlade: Warnest be thee, more oldspeak shall bringeth out thy K&R C idioms.
14:34:43 <NightBlade> i see your union and raise you a struct ;P
14:35:04 <sortie> I see your struct and raise you an anonymous union containing an anonymous struct.
14:35:31 * NightBlade dissapears into a void*
14:36:00 * elevated casts NightBlade into void
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14:36:47 * NightBlade dereferences elevated's cast and calls this.super()
14:37:18 * elevated uses a retpoline on NightBlade, taking 10 health points.
14:37:38 <elevated> you sir got retpolined! :)
14:38:21 * NightBlade casts damage to signed integer
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14:39:03 <elevated> stop signing my integers, you're not david bowie!
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17:06:57 <buhman> I'm learning how my chip's CGU works. This CGU has clock measurement hardware; when I connect it to the IRC or crystal, I get (quantized) values that match. When I configure my PLL though, as far as I can tell no multiplication is happening, despite this being configured.
17:07:36 <buhman> if I play with post-divider values, indeed the measurement result is divided accordingly
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17:08:19 <buhman> I'm not sure if the CGU just can't measure the PLL correctly, or if the PLL is actually producing completely unexpected frequencies
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21:10:15 <kingoffrance> we are common law kings. we just dont delegate anything to anyone. hence kernel devs.
21:10:30 <kingoffrance> by ancient time immemorial. before written charters.
21:11:00 <NightBlade> what about printed chars?
21:11:24 <kingoffrance> gramarye: necromancy, magic
21:11:31 <kingoffrance> thats all witchcraft ...
21:11:36 <kingoffrance> see "grammar" :)
21:11:55 <NightBlade> be that some fancy form of syntax?
21:12:08 <kingoffrance> syntax is good, "spelling" no
21:12:43 <NightBlade> I must admit, these new learnings amaze me, explain again how sheeps bladders may be employed to prevent against earthquakes\
21:12:53 <kingoffrance> os devs we make our own character sets
21:12:55 <kingoffrance> :)
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21:13:55 <ybyourmom> Up until very recently, like the 70s and 80s, the Japanese people thought that earthquakes were caused by movements of catfish
21:13:58 <ybyourmom> https://flashbak.com/the-catfish-that-triggered-the-tokyo-earthquake-pictures-14780/
21:13:59 <bslsk05> flashbak.com: Huge Catfish Trigger Earthquakes In Japan (1855) - Flashbak
21:14:14 <NightBlade> i heard about that recently
21:14:15 <ybyourmom> And they thought that when catfish began behaving erratically, you could use that to predict an earthquake
21:14:26 <ybyourmom> The latter could well be true, but the former is kind of funny
21:14:42 <NightBlade> no coincidence that lufia 2 featured an earthquake causing catfish
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21:38:41 <kingoffrance> words ending in -mancy are all "fortunes". there are literally hundreds ways to "sin".
21:39:03 <kingoffrance> gastromancy: they thought stomatch growls was "god" speaking to them.
21:39:37 <kingoffrance> so grammar too, is fortune telling (necromancy, that s why they want to speak to the dead)
21:40:05 <Mutabah> kingoffrance: As much as this is riveting conversation... how is it related to OSDev?
21:40:24 <Mutabah> (I guess some people liken kernel-level programming to the dark arts...)
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21:42:21 <klange> kingoffrance: the hell are you on about, mate?
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21:43:21 <kingoffrance> ill be good
21:43:27 <klange> (etmologically true, though: -mancy comes from the greek μαντεία - prophecy)
21:43:37 <kingoffrance> but i do actually have a character set where i keep track of such things. hence i will add "Catfishmancy" to it
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21:44:59 <NightBlade> i'll give that a grade A/A
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21:52:45 <kingoffrance> well, i will say, a good reason for going crazy with char sets, is you get a nice "generic" form e.g. symbols, function names, library names
21:52:53 <kingoffrance> but then you havet o "translate" to ascii, utf, whatever
21:53:03 <kingoffrance> and if they arre "dynamic" you need "Version" numbers like a database
21:53:23 <kingoffrance> so, hopefully it pays off for me, but i will have to make lots of "translation tables"
21:53:37 <kingoffrance> it does keep things "Generic" rather than e.g. hardcoding ascii, utf, whatever
21:53:49 <kingoffrance> and language-independent, not depending on sizeof a c enum or whatever
21:54:44 <kingoffrance> there may be some ancient 1960s os "We tried that, it had problems" but i will see how far i get
21:55:06 <kingoffrance> i havent seen it done before, anyways. there may be good reasons not to
21:55:10 <Mutabah> Such a thing exists, it's called "unicode"
21:55:38 <kingoffrance> well, if you do "custom" things, you have to get everyone else on board
21:55:49 <kingoffrance> i see no gain versus separate ones by hand
21:56:21 <kingoffrance> in my view, it is just hardcoding one generic master format. i have no master format per se. so slight difference
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21:57:45 <kingoffrance> to me its like unix tiny programs versus one giant monolothic. so, perhaps just my style, i prefer the former
21:59:36 <kingoffrance> in truth, 2-3 languagse i needed UTF didnt support, so ididnt feel like "lobbying"
21:59:42 <kingoffrance> otherwise i would've
22:00:05 <klange> The point of Unicode is that text is not something you arbitrarily split into chunks and pipeline.
22:00:08 <klange> Text is text.
22:00:48 <klange> We want to be able to create documents that contain English and Japanese and Korean and Thai and Russian all together.
22:01:08 <kingoffrance> well, i allow that too. i just add afew control chars to every set so stings can contain multiple charsets :)
22:01:18 <graphitemaster> we can't mix all those languages, think of the children
22:01:27 <kingoffrance> in truth, utf committe is unlikely to accept "types of -mancy" let alone "catfishmancy" :)
22:01:27 <graphitemaster> they'll look like bottles of ketchup
22:01:30 <klange> Hell, Unicode doesn't go far *enough* in putting everything together - it screwed up Japanese and Chinese (and traditional pre-hangul Korean) by slamming characters together in the Han unification and we had to fix that by introducing additional markup.
22:02:27 <klange> There is no "utf committe" (sic) - UTF-8 is defined and static at this point - it only sufered one modification when the maximum codepoint value was set despite UTF-8 being technically capable of encoding higher values.
22:02:29 <kingoffrance> i assume utf lets you define "custom characte classes" too? libc's support that, but ive never seen anyone actually use it
22:02:31 <kingoffrance> that is powerful too
22:02:32 <klange> The Unicode Consortium, on the other hand...
22:02:47 <klange> I don't know what you mean by a "character class".
22:02:50 <kingoffrance> ISDIGIT
22:02:52 <kingoffrance> isdigit() etc.
22:03:01 <kingoffrance> ispunct() isspace() isupper()
22:03:11 <kingoffrance> isanimaltypeofmancy() :)
22:03:20 <klange> That's the domain of Unicode.
22:03:26 <klange> And yes, it's a big database.
22:04:53 <ybyourmom> We'll soon need to convene the council of elder glyphs to decide where we'll place emojis and memes
22:05:09 <klange> You can go and mess with one of the Private Use Areas in your local Unicode database - typically ingested by a library called ICU, but in the case of C libraries generally built in at compile time - to define whatever aspects of your own custom characters you want.
22:05:18 <ybyourmom> somewhere between japanese and russian imo
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22:07:30 <klange> I wonder if there was ever a proposal to resolve Han unification through selectors.
22:07:44 <klange> We have selectors for glyph types to choose between emoji and normal glyphs...
22:07:59 <klange> Why not selectors to choose between the different competing writing systems...
22:08:16 <kingoffrance> for me its also "what if i declared war on utf, what would that look like?" ...so curiousity too, not 100% "technical" or "style"
22:09:09 <klange> utf-8 is great, even if you don't want to unicode, utf-8 is amazingly good tech for packing lots of codepoints into a system that remains compatible with 7-bit ascii and doesn't waste too much space for encoding values outside of it.
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22:10:51 <klange> "utf" alone is not a thing, you either mean the various "transformation formats" - encodings for codepoints (utf-8 good, utf-16 garbage, ucs-2 hella bad, and utf-32 only useful for internals), or you mean the Unicode Consortium.
22:11:02 <klange> I would kindly ask you *not* declare war on the Consortium, though.
22:11:48 <klange> Lots of people want to declare war on the subcommittee in charge of emoji, but I have friends there, so I would especially ask you not to do that.
22:13:11 <klange> Apparently, in answer to my question about selectors and Han unification, the answer is "yes, but no one really seems to be using them anywhere and they probably aren't supported in your browser": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variant_form_(Unicode)
22:13:12 <bslsk05> en.wikipedia.org: Variant form (Unicode) - Wikipedia
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23:02:15 <kingoffrance> it wont really slow em down, but the nsa would have to hire some guy to track my "Schemas"
23:02:25 <kingoffrance> i would stick out, but make em sweat
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23:11:46 <tasman1> one really easy way to grow stronger is to admit, that there are other guys who maybe more skillful and make point/sense too.
23:13:56 <tasman1> i think normally to consider yourself the only god is wrong approach, at least when you deny everything else that happpens in science, and not even on single occation not being back against the wall admitting that fod damn someone other makes sense too
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23:24:01 <tasman1> to think about yourself as bourn genius is wrong approach most of the time, world is crawling of good minds, even if here is no one, there must be someone who's articles are good at least, it's like english snooker new comers, all they have had a role model since youth ages to follow, and who has no one probably don't make it in the sport either
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23:24:22 <tasman1> and they have piles of good players in the sort of like peak of the game
23:25:07 <tasman1> it's always the same thing , you learn from one of the best and by that way grow stronger every day
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23:26:54 <tasman1> on the road of acheiveming something, you develop so many problems that at least at some point in life, you have to give a lead to someone other too to follow, like bycycle ride
23:27:05 <tasman1> driving in the wind so to speak
23:28:01 <tasman1> it's just that you are able to sometimes choose, almost most times, who is that going to be that you follow
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23:32:04 <tasman1> in other words, you maybe born well, and almost as genius, but half of the talent needs polishing and hard work, and for that normally you need to cooperate with those who have normally have been close to allready making it or have allready made it
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23:35:19 <tasman1> it's best to choose from personel who you admire and learn from one, it is how it is, it has to me done, even if not in close relations, people need to have some other role model to follow
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23:37:43 <tasman1> even though i do not follow mailing lists or have the standard follow function in twitter singalled in from my account, i definitely have even some from the channels of programming of graphics that i do much fancy giving me ideas, i can name a few, lots from amd and from intel those days ian romanick, and ryan C gordon, they are all class acts
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23:45:02 <tasman1> those mentioned guys have all there, the resillience, the smartness the acheiving capability, and in my troblesome life i sort of like understand it does not get easier than that than to trust what they have written
23:45:13 <tasman1> and follow the guide
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23:47:34 <tasman1> if they say, that lvalue is a dereference of a variable and it is shown in the code, that lvalue is preferred over rvalue as a whole array operation, than this is how hw works too
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23:54:44 <tasman1> hence the parallel data structuing transformation in runtime , is very tiny amount of code as youd understand, and giving in response immense amount o performance, on newer chips it is 64+ fold, but normally depending on the shader on high reg usage, more like 500-1000fold when you wait on longer latency op, even if not perfectly compacting the warps, you can pull in more pixels
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