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Sunday, 8 July 2018

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09:00:08 <palk> Has anyone here gotten the "Not enough room for program headers" ld error?
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09:02:19 <heat> Nope
09:02:29 <heat> Do you have enough space on disk?
09:03:03 <heat> Oh, wait
09:03:14 <heat> palk: https://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2000-09/msg00181.html
09:03:16 <bslsk05> ​sourceware.org: Re: ld: Not enough room for program headers
09:03:47 <palk> I found that link already. I'm not using "SIZEOF_HEADERS" in my linker script
09:04:33 <heat> Can you pastebin the linker script?
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09:14:58 <palk> https://pastebin.com/9ebRsikr
09:14:59 <bslsk05> ​pastebin.com: linker script - Pastebin.com
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09:20:39 <heat> palk: I think ld is trying to put .bss.stack at 0x0, which is offset 0(because ld tries to page align sections so it's easier to mmap). The first thing in the file needs to be the program headers, so that can't happen, so it errors out.
09:21:53 <heat> Try setting the address using . = link_virtual_stack_start - link_virtual_start
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09:23:32 <heat> That's at least what I could gather from mailings lists + your linker script
09:24:05 <heat> ld tries to put .bss.stack at 0x0 because you don't actually give it a base address
09:24:10 <palk> are you talking about this mailing list response https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-utils/2002-08/msg00242.html ?
09:24:11 <bslsk05> ​lists.gnu.org: Re: BUG: Not enough room for program headers, try linking with -N
09:24:47 <heat> yes
09:25:24 <heat> The only difference is that he actually tries to put the section at 0x0
09:26:21 <palk> setting the address didn't fix it
09:27:26 <heat> palk: Try doing --verbose
09:27:37 <heat> Also, your linker script looks like a bit of a mess
09:28:05 <heat> So maybe you have a logic error somewhere in there and it tries to add a section in 0x0
09:29:53 <heat> palk: Try this: https://gist.github.com/heatd/23da9f6807c8f01aa2dff66d3499aaea
09:29:54 <bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: linker.ld · GitHub
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09:33:29 <palk> that script tries to put .text at 0x0
09:34:06 <heat> woops
09:34:21 <heat> should be .= link_virtual_base + link_physical_base
09:34:57 <palk> then it would be overlapping with .bss.stack
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09:35:38 <heat> uhh
09:35:47 <heat> your linker script is too complicated
09:36:07 <palk> lol
09:36:13 <heat> why don't you add it in .bss?
09:36:21 <palk> add what?
09:36:26 <heat> the stack
09:37:54 <palk> because it's silly to have your stack growing down into the end of your kernel; I find it's much cleaner to have the stack placed below the kernel space, buffered by a page or two to completely isolate it
09:38:40 <heat> why are you mapping the physical base of the kernel at the kernel's virtual base, instead of mapping 0x0 at the virtual base(so you could make use of 2MB pages, and so you could easily go from physical to virtual addresses)
09:38:44 <heat> palk: It's not
09:38:59 <heat> Stacks usually grow down to the end of the address space
09:39:51 <heat> if you consider the stack's end as a guard page, there you go, completely normal stack
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09:40:16 <heat> (it's just not at the normal user-space position)
09:42:08 <palk> I can already easily go from physical to virtual and make use of 2MB pages
09:42:39 <palk> If your stack is at the end of your address space, it can't grow once it hits the end, so it's not a "completely normal stack"
09:43:03 <palk> whereas if it's below the kernel start, it can grow to the edge of the address space
09:43:36 <palk> but I didn't come to argue philosophy of stacks
09:44:49 <heat> 1) You don't grow kernel stacks
09:45:01 <heat> 2) That stack is a throwaway stack
09:45:56 <palk> it's not a throw-away stack
09:46:24 <heat> palk: You can't, ideally to get the physical address you'd need to do address - VIRT_BASE; doing that would let you use large pages while mapping the kernel
09:48:23 <palk> I can, but thanks for the consideration
09:48:32 <heat> how can you?
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11:41:33 <qeos> has russians?
11:41:41 <qeos> hello all
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12:49:43 <dmh> e l t o r i t o
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13:10:48 <heat> {45, 4c, 20, 54, 4f, 52, 49, 54, 4f}
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13:28:42 <tanner00> I have some e820 loading code that I'm uncertain about. Could anyone take a look to verify its accuracy?
13:29:09 <heat> Sure
13:29:38 <tanner00> Thank you
13:29:48 <tanner00> Here is a quick link: https://hastebin.com/yaluwusole.pl
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13:30:21 <tanner00> Also, I'm not sure how many entries I should be expecting... is there an upper bound?
13:31:06 <bcos> No upper bound; especially when you don't test for any of the error or completion conditions
13:32:10 <heat> It looks ok I think
13:32:15 <tanner00> Yes, I know that I should check if the function is available, but for now I am assuming it is.
13:32:26 <heat> but there's no better way to check than testing it on a vm real quick
13:32:27 <tanner00> Isn't ebx being 0 the completion condition?
13:32:47 <bcos> Depends - if it returns "carry = set = failure" then...
13:32:55 <tanner00> It seems to be working in QEMU, I was just making sure.
13:33:00 <heat> And no, don't check if it's available
13:33:15 <heat> e820 is so widespread you won't find a bios that doesn't support it
13:33:31 * bcos has about 5 computers that don't support it
13:33:35 <heat> If you get a failure, just halt and catch fire
13:33:40 <heat> bcos: Really?
13:33:47 <bcos> ..but "not supported" is only one of the possible reasons for failure
13:33:58 <bcos> heat: Yes (old computers)
13:34:02 <tanner00> So, you're suggesting I add a jc in the loop for failures?
13:35:00 <heat> Well, maybe the better answer is: "Depends on what hardware your OS is targetting"
13:35:05 <heat> tanner00: Yes, I think so
13:35:18 <heat> https://wiki.osdev.org/Detecting_Memory_(x86)#BIOS_Function:_INT_0x15.2C_EAX_.3D_0xE820
13:35:19 <bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Detecting Memory (x86) - OSDev Wiki
13:36:00 <bcos> tanner00: I test for carry set and test for EAX=0x534D4150, and check that ECX (length returned) is what I asked for (either 24 bytes or 28 bytes depending on "ACPI >= 3.0"); and if any of that is wrong I assume everything is wrong
13:36:50 <bcos> D'oh. It's 20 bytes or 24 bytes
13:36:52 <tanner00> Ok, that seems reasonable.
13:36:59 <tanner00> Yes, I was just about to say that lol
13:37:47 <heat> Holy crap do I hate the BIOS
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13:37:51 <heat> EFI is soo much better
13:37:54 <tanner00> The best thing you can do on failure is halt? Do you use any other int 0x15 functions?
13:38:17 <tanner00> I would like to use EFI in the future but it is kind of weird to set up.
13:38:19 <bcos> I also do some simple sanitising ("if length of area is zero, or if ACPI3 and entry is disabled, then don't add ECX to EDI so that the entry is ignored")
13:38:19 <heat> tanner00: All the other ones are either incomplete or outdated
13:38:35 <heat> It's easy to set up, tell me if you want help
13:38:49 <bcos> Hrm
13:38:59 <tanner00> I would totally appreciate that heat. I got it working a while back but can't since. Thank you!
13:39:01 <bcos> tanner00: Have you decided on your OS's minimum requirements?
13:39:19 <NightBlade> are there any sorting functions native to x86?
13:39:44 <tanner00> Anything in the last 10-15 years? Haven't thought of anything more specific than that
13:40:25 <heat> NightBlade: I don't think so
13:40:34 <NightBlade> ok, just curious
13:40:37 <NightBlade> thanks
13:40:39 <bcos> tanner00: In that case; if "int 0x14, eax=0xE820" fails you can display a nice "Your computer is too old for this OS (failed to get memory map)" error message (to make sure user knows what's wrong) and refuse to boot further
13:41:14 <heat> tanner00: https://github.com/heatd/Carbon/blob/master/efibootldr/Makefile <- That's my efi bootloader's makefile, complete with options and paths for gnuefi and clang
13:41:16 <tanner00> Yes, I was just writing up code for that. It's not for serious use anyways lol
13:41:16 <bslsk05> ​github.com: Carbon/Makefile at master · heatd/Carbon · GitHub
13:42:07 <heat> you just need a gnuefi package and clang installed
13:42:33 <heat> note that your gnuefi paths may be slightly different, I use arch so I have arch's package paths
13:42:50 <bcos> tanner00: Also note that the memory map provided by UEFI is completely different to what you get from BIOS (and both are relatively sucky) - would recommend converting either/both into your own format
13:43:20 <heat> bcos: UEFI's format isn't bad
13:43:55 <heat> The only slight issue is that you can't access it like an array, since the stride may not be the same as the size of each entry
13:44:13 <heat> and it supports a lot of entry types, including user defined
13:44:14 <bcos> ..including sorting into ascending order, dealing with "overlapping areas", merging in NUMA info and hot-plug info (from ACPI)
13:45:13 <bcos> ..and maybe adding a distinction between "not used, but usable for memory mapped PCI" and "not usable, not even for memory mapped PCI"
13:52:54 <tanner00> Ok, if this is OK I'll start thinking about UEFI: https://hastebin.com/arihowocob.pl. ebp is used to keep track of how many entries there are... it is saved later.
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13:54:09 <tanner00> About UEFI's format, that sounds the same as what GRUB gives you. Not that bad?
13:54:29 <bcos> GRUB gives you the same as BIOS (different to UEFI)
13:54:38 <bcos> Hrm
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13:54:59 <bcos> Actually, multi-boot only says "1 = usable RAM, everything else is not usable so ..."
13:55:11 <bcos> ..so it's inferior to everything
13:55:39 <tanner00> Ah, yes I remeber that.
13:56:26 <tanner00> UEFI looks very Microsoft influenced lol
13:58:06 <tanner00> How do you use QEMU with UEFI? I remember that being hell.
13:58:38 <bcos> There's an "OVFM firmware binary" you download and a command line option to tell Qemu where to find it - it's fairly easy
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13:59:41 <tanner00> Oh, it might have been me being a noob with QEMU lol
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14:01:20 <clever> tanner00: https://github.com/cleverca22/nix-tests/blob/master/kexec/simple-test.nix#L26-L31
14:01:22 <bslsk05> ​github.com: nix-tests/simple-test.nix at master · cleverca22/nix-tests · GitHub
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14:02:54 <tanner00> That's a lot. Why qemu-kvm?
14:03:13 <clever> qemu-kvm is a bash script that passes an enable-kvm flag if /dev/kvm exists
14:04:27 <tanner00> Ah, ok. Thanks!
14:04:45 <heat> it doesn't exist in a bunch of packages though
14:05:02 <heat> At least it doesn't exist in fedora and arch linux
14:05:43 <tanner00> Is there any date as to when BIOS will get the axe?
14:05:52 <heat> It's getting there
14:06:06 <heat> IIRC Intel was going to stop supporting BIOS
14:06:20 <heat> Ah yes, 2020
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14:08:16 <tanner00> Would it be hard for a GRUB based system to adapt?
14:09:02 <heat> no
14:09:19 <clever> -drive if=pflash,format=raw,readonly,file=/nix/store/cgqsism5kv7ilzx53gr1dx9rf16kprj7-OVMF-2017-12-05-fd/FV/OVMF.fd -drive if=pflash,format=raw,file=my_uefi_vars.bin \
14:09:28 <clever> tanner00: this is the bash script after nix has compiled it
14:09:40 <clever> thats the only line that matters for UEFI
14:09:42 <heat> Multiboot2 already abstracts everything
14:09:48 <clever> cp /nix/store/cgqsism5kv7ilzx53gr1dx9rf16kprj7-OVMF-2017-12-05-fd/FV/OVMF_VARS.fd my_uefi_vars.bin
14:09:49 <heat> clever: You actually don't need that
14:10:07 <clever> heat: thats the only method i found that works, but a shorter one would be nice
14:10:42 <heat> -bios OVMF.fd
14:10:54 <clever> what is the search path for it?
14:10:59 <heat> if it's properly installed where qemu can find it, that is
14:11:08 <tanner00> Does anyone have the OVMF.fd file somewhere publicly? I did it last time, but I'd rather not compile it again.
14:11:09 <heat> idk but I think -L changed it
14:11:16 <heat> tanner00: What distro are you running?
14:11:17 <clever> heat: nix puts everything in a non-standard location, so nothing can find anything
14:11:29 <tanner00> Lubuntu, so basically Ubuntu
14:11:43 <heat> https://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/misc/ovmf
14:11:43 <bslsk05> ​packages.ubuntu.com: Ubuntu – Details of package ovmf in trusty
14:11:50 <heat> there you go
14:12:08 <heat> clever: Ah, looks like its /usr/share/qemu
14:12:24 <clever> heat: nixos doesnt have a /usr/share/
14:12:41 <sortie> User share? Communist Linux!
14:12:41 <heat> whats nixos
14:12:46 <clever> heat: nixos.org
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14:13:09 <clever> heat: the package manager is written in a functional language, and you can have conflicting versions of packages installed at the same time
14:13:19 <clever> heat: because everything is refering to its deps by an absolute path
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14:14:10 <heat> spooky
14:15:28 <clever> nix is the language, nixpkgs is a the package set, and you can use them on any linux distro, or darwin
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14:15:39 <tanner00> Thank you heat
14:15:40 <clever> and nixos is a linux distro written in nix
14:16:13 <sortie> Technically nix is nixos's monster
14:16:58 <NightBlade> that is spooky
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14:17:42 <heat> I prefer https://node-os.com/
14:17:43 <bslsk05> ​node-os.com: Node-OS
14:18:34 <NightBlade> what's your guy' opinion on linux's whole "everything is a file" philosophy?
14:18:58 <bcos> If you can't seek(), it's not a file
14:19:12 <clever> NightBlade: one extension ive heard of, is to make the rootfs also be a file-handle passed to the app, so you can more trivially chroot things
14:19:39 <NightBlade> bcos: it still considers that a file, just a buffered one
14:19:52 <heat> NightBlade: I like it
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14:19:58 <NightBlade> a stream socket basically
14:20:15 <bcos> For *nix, "everything" (with exceptions) is either a stream (and not a file) or a file (and not a stream)\
14:20:28 <heat> Perfection
14:20:46 <NightBlade> i like it too, i just wish there was an auto default when interfacing devices directly from /dev
14:20:47 <clever> bcos: i have some fun things with custom character devices before, allowing mmap on a character device
14:20:52 <bcos> ..with an optional "pretend a file is a stream" conversion somewhere (C library?)
14:21:10 <NightBlade> i find it a pain to have to specify the types all the time when making sockets and such
14:21:24 <NightBlade> i wish it had a "known-good" list it would default to
14:21:29 <heat> NightBlade: What?
14:21:38 <bcos> Then there's the whole "non-standard nightmare of puke" for all the cases where neither stream nor file work (IOCTLs)
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14:22:03 <heat> bcos: What's your alternative to ioctls then?
14:22:21 <clever> write() a cmd-id + struct?
14:22:38 <bcos> My alternative is (context dependent) message protocols
14:22:59 <NightBlade> seems like the same thing in disguise to me bcos
14:23:00 <bcos> ..which isn't that much different to the (more common) "everything is an object" OOP approach
14:23:15 <clever> bcos: but what if you need to have a request&reply api, muxed with a character stream
14:23:23 <clever> bcos: for example, changing the baud rate on a serial port
14:23:32 <NightBlade> like i don't mind specifying family and protocol for sockets
14:23:51 <NightBlade> but when i have to keep track of whats a buffered char i/o
14:23:56 <bcos> clever: Why would anyone want that?
14:24:01 <NightBlade> it gets a bit confusing
14:24:17 <NightBlade> is it possible to setup a symlink or something for that?
14:24:29 <clever> bcos: ioctl allows some out-of-band control, to do things like changing the baud rate of the serial port tty
14:24:45 <NightBlade> maybe configure some sockets on boot
14:24:53 <bcos> clever: Erm. Serial port driver only ever communicates with "serial device" driver
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14:25:21 <bcos> ..in the same way that USB controller driver only ever communicates with "USB device" drivers
14:25:27 <clever> yeah
14:25:34 <heat> Alternate idea: Use sockets as the way for driver-process communication
14:25:38 <heat> *Alternative
14:25:57 <geist> changing baud rates on serial ports are a thing you do quite a bit
14:26:01 <clever> but when you open /dev/ttyS0, and you want to change the baud rate of the serial port, do you want an out-of-band ioctl() or an in-band write() with escape codes?
14:26:05 <geist> and in band, in order is also an annoying thing to do now
14:26:12 <heat> like netlink
14:26:22 <geist> ie, have to flush it all, then do the ioctl to switch the rate, etc
14:26:38 <bcos> clever: ...but if you can think of a reason for it; nothing prevents you from having a super-set of "character stream messaging protocol"
14:26:42 <heat> geist: Are baud rates even emulated in software?
14:27:53 <geist> what software are you talking about?
14:28:18 <heat> terminal emulators
14:28:38 <geist> generally not, but if you're talking to a real device on the other end of a real serial port...
14:29:19 <NightBlade> yeah, on an emulator it's all async communication right?
14:29:32 <NightBlade> it's non-blocking
14:29:40 <heat> yeah
14:29:45 <NightBlade> thought so
14:29:59 <heat> Well, it can block for a bit
14:30:08 <heat> IPC/locks
14:30:12 <NightBlade> yeah
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14:30:55 <heat> but if you do IPC asynchronously, it can't block for a measurable amount of time
14:34:06 <geist> and eventually it'll block up waiting for the host
14:34:41 <geist> but since most device that emulators emulate on modern hardware are async at the bottom most layer, since the cpu itself doesn't block waiting for the device to come back
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14:41:27 <tanner00> How does GRUB abstract over UEFI?
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14:42:13 <heat> tanner00: Multiboot1 doesn't support UEFI at all, multiboot2 abstracts a lot of it and only gives you a struct with uefi-specific info
14:42:24 <heat> multiboot 2 is awful though, and really really broken
14:42:36 <heat> believe me, I use multiboot 2
14:43:00 <tanner00> It's my understanding that you boot into 32-bit mode with GRUB, but UEFI boots you into 64-bit mode?
14:43:14 <heat> and grub takes you back to 32-bit
14:43:17 <heat> it's that stupid
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14:43:56 <tanner00> Ah, ok. So OSes that take advantage of GRUB will still work after the BIOS is completely gone?
14:44:30 <heat> multiboot 2? yes, but chances are mb2 goes away sooner
14:44:45 <heat> multiboot 1 will absolutely break because there's no support for it
14:45:08 <tanner00> Is multiboot 3 in the works or something?
14:45:13 <tanner00> What replaces it?
14:45:28 <heat> *BSD/Linux will be fine because they use their own boot protocols
14:45:30 <heat> no
14:45:34 <heat> nothing, probably mb1
14:45:45 <tanner00> what lol
14:46:23 <tanner00> I don't see why mb2 would go away?
14:46:44 <heat> multiboot 2 is cumbersome and it's *full* of bugs
14:46:54 <heat> (in the grub implementation)
14:47:00 <heat> + no big OS supports it
14:47:11 <heat> + not a lot of hobby OS support it
14:48:00 <heat> that's why I rolled my own EFI bootloader, it's better and you have more control
14:48:25 <heat> if you want to dual-boot, grub2 can chainload your own bootloader
14:48:51 <tanner00> Do hobby OSes support mb1, then?
14:49:04 <heat> Generally, yes
14:49:11 <heat> I also wouldn't recommend it
14:50:32 <[Alucard]> is mb1 what the legacy bioses offers?
14:50:44 <dmh> howdy yall
14:50:45 <heat> what?
14:50:53 <heat> dmh: el
14:50:56 <dmh> haha :)
14:51:04 <heat> dmh: torito
14:51:04 <dmh> joke one year running now
14:51:18 <[Alucard]> It's question, I have no idea...
14:51:52 <[Alucard]> saw you recommending EFI... but efi is shit in my exp...
14:51:59 <heat> How so?
14:52:53 <[Alucard]> it's not handy... as the old one
14:53:08 <heat> Actually, it's very handy
14:53:32 <[Alucard]> had to turn efi off many time to install new oses on some new machines...
14:53:44 <heat> that's very weird
14:53:57 <heat> every big OS supports EFI
14:54:26 <[Alucard]> it wasn't booting at all... and the os image was supposedly ok with EFI...
14:54:39 <heat> maybe you screwed up?
14:55:31 <[Alucard]> no idea maybe... at least when I turned it off it just worked
14:55:37 <heat> or they were still the first EFI machines, those had some bugs
14:55:50 <heat> These days things mostly work
14:56:17 <[Alucard]> I remember it was buggy at beginning yes
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14:58:29 <[Alucard]> speaking of bios I think I'm gonna liberate my old motheboard with some free bios
14:59:24 <dmh> high effort low reward
14:59:32 <[Alucard]> have a solder pen to bind some wire brutaly to the spi flash and a buspirate
14:59:33 <dmh> or maybe risk
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14:59:57 <[Alucard]> Yeah that's what make me fear about it
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15:00:34 <dmh> im all for the purpose of completely open software
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15:00:58 <dmh> but sometimes the risk to even having a working machine (or not modern one like coreboot's supported boards) is a big trade off
15:01:07 <dmh> if you have a need for cutting edge stuff
15:01:45 <dmh> *slaps monitor* this bad boy can fit so much hentai in it
15:02:35 <heat> dank memes
15:02:35 <[Alucard]> I just like the idea to be able to hack in and discover things...
15:02:55 <dmh> oh yeah
15:02:57 <dmh> thats teh best
15:04:32 <tanner00> nasty dmh
15:06:05 <dmh> haha
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15:06:39 <[Alucard]> I certainly give myself some pain with all of that...
15:06:42 --- nick: isaac_ -> isaacwoods
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15:09:33 <dmh> modern desktop platforms are so complex
15:09:50 <dmh> arm getting right up there too
15:11:25 <[Alucard]> Few day ago I had the pleasure to fix the bad experience a neighborhood had using lthe ast windows 10
15:11:55 <dmh> i use windows 10
15:12:09 <[Alucard]> The disk the memory the cpu are constantly scrapping stuffs...
15:12:40 <dmh> i have spent significant amounts of time comparing idle cpu usage between w10, bsds and linux
15:12:44 <dmh> and windows is always the lowest
15:13:02 <dmh> because when I just sit idle on linux several cores flutter constantly
15:13:06 <dmh> i digress
15:13:12 <dmh> i think it was related to nvidia drivers oddly
15:13:19 <[Alucard]> Ofc windows can be okay when it's handled correectly
15:13:25 <dmh> yea im curious what happened
15:13:29 <Asu> hmm
15:13:34 <Asu> i have a question
15:13:35 <dmh> banners? :p
15:13:39 <Asu> on linux, this cpu usage
15:13:41 <Asu> at idle
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15:13:57 <dmh> i tried gnome3, xfce and lxde
15:14:01 <dmh> lxde was unsurprisingly lowest
15:14:02 <Asu> is it different with the cpu currently clocked at 800mhz than at say 3400mhz?
15:14:10 <dmh> i pegged it at 100%
15:14:18 <dmh> that was the first suspect
15:14:23 <Asu> hm
15:14:31 <dmh> adn it was certainly governing it really low
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15:14:36 <dmh> so the usage was higher looking
15:14:43 <Asu> maybe perf top would help? unless that would just catch on noise
15:14:47 <dmh> but even after, comparing apples to apples
15:14:59 <dmh> it was mostly x and whatever wm
15:15:07 <dmh> there is just no winning on desktop linux
15:15:31 <dmh> unfair comparison at any rate
15:15:50 <heat> my cores sit near-idle but I still have the shittiest experience in chromium
15:16:04 <dmh> think if i tried i3 on wayland or something it'd be ok
15:16:09 <dmh> but i cant select wayland when using nvidia drivers
15:16:16 <heat> sometimes there's no lag, other times, it feels like im browsing in unix v6
15:16:16 <dmh> cba to waste time on that garbage
15:16:20 <dmh> haha
15:16:38 <dmh> make john lyons proud
15:17:05 <[Alucard]> heat: same with firefox...
15:17:27 <[Alucard]> it's scrapping hard...
15:18:05 <[Alucard]> net browsers are the gates to arbitrary shit...
15:19:50 <[Alucard]> I didn't debug because my env isn't designed to debug...
15:22:04 <[Alucard]> I did a lil test very simple...
15:22:35 <[Alucard]> I dropped many shit into my home... and it FF scrapped...
15:22:53 <[Alucard]> I removed every shit into my home
15:22:59 <[Alucard]> FF didn't scrap
15:23:15 <[Alucard]> didn't need to debug at all in fact
15:26:31 <[Alucard]> oh also even FF install itself cares lot about your home...
15:26:59 <[Alucard]> no idea maybe it's false positive...
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15:40:08 <[Alucard]> I liked the way tasks are multiplexed/threaded and their priority looked to be well done...
15:40:18 <[Alucard]> from windows 10
15:40:40 <[Alucard]> the UI is very responsive... but the content takes a moment :D
15:41:37 <[Alucard]> had some pain to remove some provided softwares...
15:41:54 <[Alucard]> surprisingly throwing an error ...
15:41:55 <[Alucard]> :D
15:42:12 <[Alucard]> It was funny os
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15:44:25 <[Alucard]> I'm fine with GNU/nunux
15:44:36 <dmh> nstall the tool from the store that lets you see the diagnostics and telemetry they record and set it to the advanced one
15:44:40 <dmh> its hilariously detailed
15:45:00 <dmh> probably 100s of MB of json a day
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15:45:18 <[Alucard]> :/
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15:52:34 <[Alucard]> My home made GNU/nunux offers zero lvls of telemetry
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16:57:34 <Matviy> I don't know why so many people recommend the Linux Device Drivers book, it's terrible
16:57:42 <Matviy> Reads like schizophrenic word salad
16:58:12 <Matviy> Every page is torture i just want it to end already
16:58:23 <tanner00> Example? lol
16:58:57 <heat> Matviy: Not even greg kh recommends it...
16:59:45 <Matviy> tanner00: It's filled with stuff like "To do X, use function Y, here are the parameters.
17:00:01 <Matviy> Without ever explaining why you would ever want to do X, or what function Y even does
17:00:22 <Matviy> I had to open a stack exchange question with quotes from the book asking people to help make sense of it
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17:00:38 <tanner00> Ah, so it's basically just documentation lol
17:01:38 <heat> no
17:01:43 <heat> it's just shitty documentation
17:02:09 <tanner00> damn lol
17:02:14 <tanner00> Matviy: why are you reading it?
17:03:02 <Matviy> Trying to learn how to write drivers and some kernel internals along the way
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17:04:53 <heat> Matviy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdPxeGHIZ74
17:04:54 <bslsk05> ​'Kernel Recipes 2016 - The Linux Driver Model - Greg KH' by hupstream (00:43:20)
17:05:13 <heat> I like this presentation
17:05:33 <heat> gives you a nice overview of the driver model
17:05:43 <heat> including how things work
17:06:08 <Matviy> heat: tyvm I'll definitely watch it, I had to stop the device model chapter half way through because it's spaghetti
17:07:56 <geist> yah i seem to remember the same from that book
17:08:08 <geist> wasn't a good introduction to how to design drivers or how it fits in
17:08:23 <geist> just a blat of a bunch of stuff, half of which proably goes out of date immediately
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17:12:00 <tanner00> Thanks for the video, heat.
17:12:08 <heat> np
17:12:14 <heat> It's really nice
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17:12:22 <heat> probably won't replace the whole book, but it will help
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19:46:34 <klange> el torito
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19:49:48 <tanner00> hey klange
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20:01:38 <xiphias> klange: your presence i assume indicates you're not affected by the recent flooding in japan
20:02:48 <klange> Tokyo is unaffected, flooding has covered most of western Japan.
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20:05:15 <xiphias> oh
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20:50:25 <ybyourmom> Damn, flooding, earthquakes, tsunamis
20:50:29 <ybyourmom> Weebs
20:50:55 <ybyourmom> What's the next affliction Japan will have to both endure and become accustomed to as the norm?
20:51:24 <ybyourmom> Maybe if we channel all the hurricanes and sandstorms and famines and droughts all across the world to Japan, we can redirect them all there
20:51:40 <ybyourmom> And then Japan will soak them up and innovate to become able to bear them
20:51:54 <ybyourmom> And we can solve all world disasters just by letting Japan take care of it all
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21:52:55 <corriedutch> you know what psychatrists try to prove, that amount of brain cells and their connections is not important as the thinking effectiveness of an individual is guided by the lifestyle, for instance they think if i was put under a dreadmill (Daily basis brainwashing me), that i suffer as much as their unaffected brainless head
21:53:31 <corriedutch> even though i released every bit of crap they pulled, i am telling those need manhandling and there is not much other to do
21:54:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Mutabah
21:54:16 <corriedutch> but for the next month i do not have anymore as much time as i used to, even though on free days i look into stuff
21:54:28 --- kick: corriedutch was kicked by Mutabah (You're ranting again, might want to fix that)
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22:00:18 <NightBlade> he seemed kind of tense, is this a recurrent issue?
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22:04:55 <absolute123> i can see multiple of algorithms my own dealing with parallel arrays, but one the next free day, i just need to look at the trial and run test data, whitepaper is not sufficient for amd graphics cards, i need to run a test for running and storing the results to see what is the maximum array that can run per compute unit
22:05:39 <NightBlade> i really need to start playing with OpenCL
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22:06:50 <klange> Anyone with EFI experience want to point me in the right direction for how I should find and use the drive APIs to load myself...
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22:07:10 <absolute123> but currently i am capable of providing some of the schematics how hw fifo queues of opcodes are drained, NightBlade for opencl things should allready work, can be enhanced by default, but in cuda and opencl, parallel algorithms are easy to write
22:07:19 <klange> I've got the problem of a CD on which there's an EFI system partition as a special payload, but the files I want are in the ISO9660 of the actual CD...
22:07:40 <NightBlade> the only thing i can suggest is theres an extension, i forget what it's called but i needed to boot from USB to remove TDSS rootkits
22:07:55 <NightBlade> it's possible you might have some luck with it
22:08:52 <klange> So I think I want to work backwards from my loaded executable - I guess I can get the relevant services that loaded it, use that to find the find the right device, and then use the drive service to open that, then I have my own ISO9660 driver I can use to do the real work...
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22:09:17 <klange> I was looking at doug16k's stuff, but he uses the simple filesystem API which only supports FAT
22:09:36 <klange> [except maybe on vbox, it may support ISO there, but I care about support OVMF under QEMU, and it doesn't grok ISO9660]
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22:10:11 <NightBlade> have you tried disabling kvm?
22:10:15 <klange> ?
22:10:21 <NightBlade> one sec
22:10:36 <klange> This isn't a troubleshooting exercise.
22:10:45 <klange> I am asking about the EFI APIs.
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22:11:06 * NightBlade shrugs
22:11:33 <NightBlade> i played with posix a bit
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22:12:26 <bcos> klange: There's a "EFI_LOADED_IMAGE_DEVICE_PATH_PROTOCOL" that might make it easier to work backwards from the loaded executable
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22:23:41 <absolute123> i soon need to go, but as i said there is a issue queue that controls the muxes in alu pipeline leading to vgpr module for the read aka private pool, and the write pool aka persistent pool disallows writebacks for retired instructions, i can see three of the substantially different main algorithms without flow or warp identifiers, to put arrays of parallel pixels out
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22:45:42 <absolute123> but you can be sure, once the max array is worked out, there is a main first pick algorithm that is entirely primitive, once i get you the details of one table how the fifos function, this will be only tiny article on pastebin
22:47:16 <absolute123> i at all can not see, why the assaults and accusations cause of this shit, i described it out of my natural intelligence long time ago, it works almost the same as i imagined now that i looked into hw code, even 100percent almost so to speak
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23:59:59 --- log: ended osdev/18.07.08