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09:53:37 <sortie> http://bespin.org/~qz/irc/ specifically
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09:53:50 <geist> yah push comes to shove i can provide the missing logs since my irc client is keeping one
09:54:02 <geist> and we can always stich them together
09:54:08 <sortie> Yeah I also got a few bots connected and my own personal logs
09:55:25 <lkurusa> hello globbot !
09:56:06 <lkurusa> we could always have more bots running to provide the logging
09:56:15 <lkurusa> one goes down, there's another that we can use
10:28:02 <Shockk> I have a quick question
10:28:51 <Shockk> in order to build hosted versions of binutils and gcc (i.e. not bare, but with support for my libc), do I actually need the compiled libc.a to exist, or does this just rely on the headers?
10:32:51 <Shockk> right now my build process is: bare binutils, bare gcc, newlib, hosted binutils, hosted gcc; as I need the bare binutils/gcc in order to build newlib for my OS, but for my own libc, I'm hoping that I can just copy the headers into the sysroot and build binutils/gcc once as hosted
11:19:18 <klys> shockk, if your own libc is newlib, you are linking statically and yes you do need libc.a
11:20:13 <Shockk> klys: ah no, I mean, this is the gcc running on my build machine, i.e. the hosted-environment gcc cross compiler for my custom target
11:20:45 <Shockk> and the libc I'm referring to is the one that would be linked into executables compiled using that cross compiler
11:20:53 <klys> to host gcc you will need a c library, yes.
11:22:15 <klys> to host anything you will need a c library, and newlib doesn't support dynamic linker, as it does not provide one.
11:22:50 <Shockk> that isn't what I mean, give me a moment because I had the same problem trying to explain this question to someone else earlier, it's just kind of difficult for me to articulate what I mean
11:23:00 <Shockk> might be better if I diagram it
11:24:30 <klys> are your own apps statically linked? no? if not, do you have c headers for them? headers declaring functions? are those functions dynamically linked? sounds like you would have needed to make an ldd.
11:25:02 <Shockk> https://i.imgur.com/W1d2yE7.png
11:25:23 <Shockk> from this diagram, I understand that the libgcc is built as part of building i386-shk-gcc
11:25:41 <Shockk> but what I'm wondering is, does building libgcc require libc.a to already be there for i386-shk?
11:25:46 <Shockk> or does it only require the libc headers?
11:26:48 <klange> klys: i used newlib as shared object
11:27:15 <klange> Shockk: you don't need the libc to build the hosted gcc - I use mine to build the libc in the first place
11:27:27 <Shockk> ah great, that's what I was hoping for
11:28:06 <Shockk> I was previously doing two builds of gcc (the first being a bare build --without-headers)
11:28:34 <klys> why are we calling a cross-compiler targetting i386-shk "hosted?" it is a cross compiler.
11:29:37 <klange> Because that's what we refer to the cross-compiler with a hosted target.
11:29:39 <Shockk> sorry, what I mean is that it provides a hosted environment as opposed to just a freestanding one; I was going off the terminology here https://wiki.osdev.org/Hosted_GCC_Cross-Compiler
11:29:40 <bslsk05> wiki.osdev.org: Hosted GCC Cross-Compiler - OSDev Wiki
11:29:58 <klange> Because that's what gcc refers to such an environment as: hosted vs. freestanding
11:30:22 <klange> If you want to differentiate between that and a GCC running *on* your target, that's a native GCC.
11:30:52 <klys> my understanding of the build-host-target triplet is that if you're running gcc hosted, then you're hosting gcc.
11:31:10 <klange> That's unrelated to this set of terminology.
11:31:23 <klange> "host" *is* overloaded
11:33:01 <klys> so, if gcc uses an abi at the target, then gcc is hosted.
11:33:17 <klange> That's not the right terminology either.
11:34:31 <klys> i686-elf <- not hosted; i686-linux-gnu <- linux hosted
11:36:26 <klys> I see no complaints.
11:59:22 <air> http://bespin.org/~qz/irc/ -- logging and stats should be working again, but search doesn't have access to the current day since the log file must be downloaded now
11:59:23 <bslsk05> bespin.org: #OSDEV on OPN/FreeNode