Search logs:

channel logs for 2004 - 2010 are archived at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/old/ ·· can't be searched

#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present

#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021

all other channels are on OPN/FreeNode from 2004 to present


http://bespin.org/~qz/search/?view=1&c=osdev2&y=21&m=10&d=13

Wednesday, 13 October 2021

16:55:00 <geist> Huh that was strange, got booted and didn’t auto nickserv
17:32:00 <jimbzy> geist, My bouncer does that from time to time.
17:32:00 <jimbzy> It'll try to autojoin before it authenticates.
17:34:00 <zid> yea it might be nice to auto recover your nick on connect
17:48:00 <geist> yeah i guess it got out of sync
17:51:00 <clever> 2021-10-13 14:51:50 [libera] -NickServ(NickServ@services.libera.chat)- Syntax: IDENTIFY <nick> <password>
17:52:00 <clever> geist: the identify command can also accept a nick, so you can login from any nick
17:52:00 <geist> yep
17:52:00 <geist> well, yeah i know how it works
17:52:00 <geist> but since i switched to irccloud that's all done automagically by irccloud
17:52:00 <geist> except when they screw up, i guess
17:53:00 <clever> ahh
18:17:00 * Bitweasil just runs znc.
18:17:00 <Bitweasil> A freebie GCE instance is perfect for that sort of thing.
18:32:00 <ksp> Hello there
18:33:00 <gog> hi
18:33:00 <ksp> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/a40f5c2e25cc96614d5a4e425241ef19/600px-ThinkPadT400.jpg
18:33:00 <ksp> Image test
18:33:00 <superleaf1995> hmm
18:33:00 <ksp> What
18:34:00 <gog> það er tölvunni
18:38:00 <superleaf1995> i got telnet in my kernel
18:39:00 <superleaf1995> and made it so it's wrapped around \SYSTEM\COMM\BSC.***, which does the EBCDIC -> ASCII translation
18:40:00 <zid> það isn't trivial to say
18:42:00 <Oli> I am using a small monitor with video fed via RCA, and through that was a fancy way to type bsd.
18:42:00 <zid> have you considered upgrading to rgb
18:42:00 <gog> monochrome lcd for me
18:42:00 <zid> ..2048x1152 24bit monitor, why are you guys so weird
18:42:00 <gog> i'm joking
18:43:00 <Bitweasil> I'm annoyed at the lack of greyscale filter in most modern OSes. :(
18:43:00 <Oli> Yes; I aim to do so once I get up to build a wire for; I am using a Raspberry Pi 3B+ board as my main computer since a while.
18:44:00 <j`ey> Oli: with SD card or SSD?
18:45:00 <Oli> Monochrome monitors feels great on my eyes; specially for reading: It seems much sharper to me than chroma video.
18:46:00 <Oli> I am booting from, and using one SD card to load an operating system from.
18:47:00 <ksp> amogus
18:49:00 <j`ey> Oli: ive been thinking about getting an ssd
18:50:00 <superleaf1995> SSDs are nice but very low capacity
18:50:00 <j`ey> huh?
18:50:00 <superleaf1995> i usually like HDDs because they have more capacity
18:51:00 <gog> j`ey: get one
18:51:00 <gog> 11/10 highly recommend
18:51:00 <Bitweasil> ^^
18:51:00 <Bitweasil> How much data do you have to store?
18:51:00 <j`ey> superleaf1995: I mean, you can get TB SSDs too
18:51:00 <Bitweasil> A 256GB or 512GB boot SSD is amazing.
18:51:00 <zid> If you're rich, hdds don't have higher capacity :p
18:51:00 <Bitweasil> And then use spinning rust for bulk file storage.
18:51:00 <superleaf1995> j`ey: usually for more
18:51:00 <zid> yea I've been on a 240GB boot drive for a long time now
18:51:00 <Oli> 16GB seems more than enough for all my computing desires; I aim to have more room after I get a minimal Linux environment instead of Raspberry OS, I am currently using, and keep on devicing a bootloader from.
18:51:00 <gog> i've only got 128 but an external spinner for storage
18:52:00 <Bitweasil> 16GB isn't enough to build a kernel.
18:52:00 <gog> 128 is more than enough for what i need
18:52:00 <Bitweasil> er.
18:52:00 <j`ey> Bitweasil: I know that you like rpis with SSD ;)
18:52:00 <zid> I recently did something incredibly risky, basically unprotected sex with someone with a bad cough
18:52:00 <Bitweasil> To build the Linux kernel, forgot which channel I was in.
18:52:00 <zid> I bought a used hard drive from the back of a van
18:52:00 <zid> ..4TB WD RED, and it.. works fine? :o
18:52:00 <gog> :o
18:52:00 <j`ey> Im using my rpi4 right now to build the linux kernel quite often, and it's not that slow, but an ssd could help
18:52:00 <zid> Good deal for £30
18:53:00 <Bitweasil> At least you didn't sign his key... https://xkcd.com/364/
18:53:00 <Bitweasil> j`ey, yeah, they work nicely. Though I'm also rocking an ODroid N2+ right now, and the eMMC on that is actually legitimately quick too.
18:53:00 <Oli> I differ from building a complete Linux kernel, but a modular one with handpicked modules.
18:53:00 <zid> I always use my own config
18:53:00 <zid> I build in ext2 and ext4 and all my drivers are modules
18:54:00 <zid> and I only build the ones I use
18:54:00 <Bitweasil> #GenTwo!
18:54:00 <Bitweasil> I used to do that. Then I stopped caring.
18:54:00 <superleaf1995> modular kernels are the best :')
18:54:00 <Bitweasil> I don't think there's a huge difference in performance either way.
18:54:00 <gog> i don't miss gentoo
18:54:00 <zid> smaller kernels are nicer
18:55:00 <j`ey> I build everything in, so I can just use a fixed initramfs and it's easier to dev with
18:55:00 <zid> I don't even use an initramfs
18:55:00 <zid> that's even easier easier
18:55:00 <superleaf1995> yeah because you can eventually remove out modules ya don't need instead of rebuilding
18:56:00 <Bitweasil> gog, I occasionally consider spinning up a Gentoo box again, but I'll probably use it to teach my kids. :D
18:56:00 <gog> teach them what not to do
18:57:00 <zid> gentoo's not exactly hard
18:57:00 <zid> you set the timezone, keyboard layout and clock
18:57:00 <gog> "don't waste your best years waiting for emerge -avuDN world"
18:57:00 <zid> then 'emerge some top level gui package' and it builds all the deps for your kde or gnome or whatever it was
18:57:00 <zid> and you're basically now ubuntu
18:57:00 <zid> except apt is slightly faster
18:58:00 <superleaf1995> ubunutified gentoo
18:58:00 <superleaf1995> oh no
18:58:00 <zid> it's hardly slackware, it does it all automatically
18:58:00 <j`ey> my coworker uses slack
19:03:00 <Oli> Now that you mention desktop environments, came to my mind a pile of packages to compile for getting a development environment for. I think best get a flash drive to hold a development environment to chroot and compile from, for the system in the 16GB SD card I use.
19:03:00 <zid> flash is slooooooow
19:04:00 <Bitweasil> <3 USB SSDs.
19:04:00 <Bitweasil> Even over USB2 they're a lot faster than SD, and USB thumb drives are pretty piss-poor at random IOPS too.
19:04:00 <Bitweasil> All that stuff - SDs, thumb drives, etc, is designed for large block single threaded transfers of a lot of data at once.
19:04:00 <Bitweasil> (shoving photos or such onto it)
19:04:00 <zid> It's hard to say they're even 'designed' for that
19:05:00 <zid> it's just the thing they suck least at
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> Builds are a ton of random 4k IO, and even an old ragged used SSD will thrash them in 4k random I.
19:05:00 <zid> imagine building on an optane :o
19:05:00 <zid> 1M iops
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> If you use them in that way, many are quite respectable. But fall flat outside that use case.
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> So I'll claim they're designed for that use case.
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> :p
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> Glacial.
19:05:00 <Bitweasil> ramdisk or nothing.
19:06:00 <zid> gotta get it into ram somehow!
19:06:00 <Bitweasil> nvdimms. Only once!
19:06:00 <zid> I have built the linux kernel by copying all the files somewhere first to put them into page cache
19:06:00 <zid> I got it down to a minute
19:06:00 <zid> on a quad core
19:07:00 <gog> cheater
19:09:00 <Oli> Still faster than writting to a floppy disk! While compiling doesn't take over three days, flash drives are supporting my computing activities well so far.
19:12:00 <zid> I'd probably just distcc to a $2 vps
19:13:00 <j`ey> Bitweasil: how much faster do you think doing a kernel compile is on ssd vs sd card? 2x? more?
19:14:00 <Bitweasil> Don't know, haven't benchmarked.
19:14:00 <Bitweasil> I would guess 10-15%?
19:14:00 <Bitweasil> And how much RAM you have.
19:14:00 <j`ey> oh hm
19:14:00 <Bitweasil> I'd probably run a -j 6 on SD, vs -j 5 on SSD.
19:14:00 <Bitweasil> (for a quad core)
19:14:00 <j`ey> maybe I'll look at iowait or iotop or whatever, see if I can figure it out
19:16:00 <Bitweasil> Just look at the "iowait" line in top while you're building and see how bad it is.
19:16:00 <Bitweasil> If you've got a bunch of cores waiting, you're choked on it.
19:17:00 <j`ey> most of my builds are like 30s incremental builds
19:19:00 <j`ey> (at least for the thing im currently working on)
19:24:00 <Oli> Thank you for mentioning about distcc, zid! I wasn't aware about it.
22:31:00 <Mondenkind> https://github.com/MoonbaseOtago/vroom cool