channel logs for 2004 - 2010 are archived at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/old/ ·· can't be searched
#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present
#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021
all other channels are on OPN/FreeNode from 2004 to present
http://bespin.org/~qz/search/?view=1&c=osdev2&y=21&m=10&d=4
00:42:00 <kingoffrance> "if you build the kernel first, then reboot" dont quote me, i think sometimes freebsd those were the instructions, at least maybe for edge cases only...
00:42:00 <kingoffrance> assuming upgrading from source of course
00:43:00 <kingoffrance> i would bet there is precedent anyhow...
00:43:00 <kingoffrance> at least partially, that sounds familiar...
00:45:00 <kingoffrance> maybe it was just the "install in single user mode" that is making me think that
00:51:00 <kingoffrance> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/cutting-edge/#makeworld
00:52:00 <kingoffrance> still the instructions :)
00:52:00 <kingoffrance> i dont recall, partially that may have just been "make sure the new kernel works before going all the way"
00:53:00 <kingoffrance> only is step 11 "Restart the system to use the newly-built world and kernel." do you finally get both
05:32:00 <klange> mm, graphs https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-10-04%2014-31-25.png
05:42:00 <zid> nice giraffe
05:42:00 <zid> what is it, cores.. memory.. io?
05:42:00 <klange> network
05:42:00 <zid> You have a network? Disgusting
05:43:00 <kingoffrance> what does the greyed-out packages mean? cant install? already installed, cant install again? cant uninstall?
05:44:00 <klange> gray = not installed
05:49:00 <kingoffrance> cant uninstall doom would have been best, but that is tied with "already installed, cant install again" for 2nd perhaps
05:53:00 <klange> Trying to generalize the shape rasterizer I built for the text renderer to make these graphs. Currently drawing them piece by piece - draw out the line, stroke it with a really bad approach, then cap off the bottom of the segment to do the fill, and in between data points shift the graph over...
05:56:00 <klange> Originally this was just blatting out lines, but with the addition of the network graph (and with a need to support resizing) it needs to be redone to store the graph values and be able to reconstitute them at any size.
05:57:00 <klange> Trying to model this after Gnome's system monitor app a bit.
09:56:00 <sortie> klange flexing those SMP CPU usage graphs like a pro
09:57:00 <sortie> Needs juuuusssst a hint more of axis labeling to look perfect and then this just wins all screenshot contests forever
10:22:00 <klange> sortie: something like that? https://klange.dev/s/Screenshot%20from%202021-10-04%2019-22-39.png
10:25:00 <sortie> Yeah
10:25:00 <sortie> Not quite there but absolutely getting there
10:55:00 <vai> :)
10:57:00 <gog> :)
10:57:00 <sortie> :)
11:09:00 <EtherNet> :)
11:24:00 <kingoffrance> s/^/\(/ # fix unbalanced parens
11:25:00 <gog> lmao
13:20:00 <sham1> (:)
13:25:00 <Mutabah> ):(
14:09:00 <ZipCPU> ]:[
17:49:00 <Bitweasil> Oh man.
17:49:00 <Bitweasil> I know it sucks for a fewp eople.
17:49:00 <Bitweasil> But I am just giggling here, with how completely Facebook blew themselves off the internet this morning.
17:50:00 <gog> aw it's not a DoS?
17:50:00 <gog> i was hearing rumors that it was
17:50:00 <clever> 2021-10-04 14:43:11 < petschge> yeah. facebook made a boo-boo and has withdrawn routing info to the DNS server for facebook/instagram/whatsapp via BGP
17:50:00 <gog> whoops
17:50:00 <clever> yeah
17:50:00 <gog> well either way i may tune into the congressional hearing about it tomorrow
17:51:00 <gog> i wanna hear the dirt
17:52:00 <Bitweasil> I though they withdrew all their BGP routes or something of the sort.
17:53:00 <Bitweasil> They're pretty much non-routable at the moment.
18:13:00 <clever> 2021-10-04 15:10:21 <%Akito-Bob> According to u/ramenporn—who claims to be a Facebook employee and part of the recovery efforts—this is most likely a case of Facebook network engineers pushing a config change that inadvertently locked them out, meaning that the fix must come from data center technicians with local, physical access to the routers in question.
18:13:00 <clever> Bitweasil: this claim, states that they basically locked themselves out of the servers needed to fix it
18:14:00 <clever> so they need someone with physical access to repair it
18:14:00 <Bitweasil> Uh huh.
18:14:00 <Bitweasil> Someone didn't leave the backup dial up modems in place...
18:15:00 <Bitweasil> The popcorn is excellent this morning.
18:15:00 <clever> "who needs dialup in this age?"
18:15:00 <clever> *yoink*
18:18:00 <clever> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748203
18:54:00 <junon> The sysop's reddit account has been deleted along with all comments.
18:54:00 <gog> he probably realized he could get fired or did
18:55:00 <junon> Facebook's stock is tanking
18:55:00 <junon> "tanking", sorry
18:55:00 <junon> 5%
18:56:00 <gog> that's up from earlier
18:56:00 <gog> twitter is down like 7% today
18:56:00 <gog> seems like social media is not pleasing the market gods
18:57:00 <gog> which is fine with me, we need to kil the market gods
18:57:00 <junon> Oh yeah you're right, low seems to be -11.61% as reported by yahoo
18:58:00 <gog> i think it's usually market category volatility
18:58:00 <gog> with the 60 minutes thing the other night i think social media is naturally going to be a shaky set today
18:58:00 <gog> usual market category...*
18:58:00 <junon> One can hope. Telegram went down for a while (might still be) due to the onslaught of signups.
18:59:00 <junon> Signal already had to expand availability quite a bit sounds like.
18:59:00 <junon> If there's an instagram competitor, now is their chance :D
19:09:00 <junon> Their internal comms were lost too, wow.
19:10:00 <clever> junon: so now the problem, is finding the phone# for the datacenter, without using facebook! lol
19:10:00 <clever> and then convicing the guy on the other end, to type some artbitrary commands into the main server
19:11:00 <junon> Apparently they're refusing to do that, according to someone it's a "logistics race" right now getting engineers out to the farms.
19:11:00 <junon> But their internal IRC servers are also down. Lots of speculation it's deliberate but I doubt it.
19:16:00 <sortie> Now is absolutely the time to launch social media features on my IRC network running on my OS
19:23:00 <Bitweasil> HN is down too.
19:23:00 <Bitweasil> Or at least *really* erratic.
19:23:00 <junon> Yeah it's getting hugged to death.
19:24:00 <junon> It's still on a single server IIRC.
19:24:00 <Bitweasil> Poor server...
19:25:00 <gog> gogbook time
19:25:00 <gog> hope you like nothing but cute animals
19:26:00 <junon> :D
19:27:00 <Bitweasil> Can... can it have ferrets?
19:27:00 <Bitweasil> And other mustalids?
19:28:00 <Bitweasil> The Mustelidae (/mʌˈstɛlɪdiː/;[2] from Latin mustela, weasel) are a family of carnivorous mammals, including weasels, badgers, otters, ferrets, martens, minks and wolverines, among others.
19:28:00 <Bitweasil> Because that's just a list of cute. ;)
19:32:00 <junon> Waiting for @dang's message about "please log out".
19:32:00 <junon> Oh man Facebook's badge system is down. Nobody can enter the building.
19:33:00 <Bitweasil> Wait, WHAT? :D
19:33:00 <Bitweasil> LINK?
19:34:00 <Bitweasil> I'm out of popcorn, darn it!
19:34:00 <junon> sec
19:34:00 <junon> https://twitter.com/sheeraf/status/1445099150316503057
19:35:00 <junon> Sounds like it's been mostly resolved though. Facebook employees have been told to remain silent about it as much as possible, according to a few responses.
19:36:00 <junon> It's anyone's guess as to what's actually happening though. I can't imagine the post-mortem is going to be honest, either.
19:37:00 <kazinsal> they broke their DNS and BGP so hard they lost building control access
19:37:00 <Bitweasil> ping: facebook.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
19:37:00 <Bitweasil> No joy on DNS still.
19:37:00 <kazinsal> that's... beyond failure
19:37:00 <Bitweasil> kazinsal, yes.
19:37:00 <junon> and internal main+fallback comms
19:37:00 <junon> The irony of owning whatsapp isn't lost.
19:37:00 <Bitweasil> I'm sorry, this is totally off topic, but... I am going to have face pain later today from just how much I've been grinning today.
19:38:00 <Bitweasil> This is just *funny.*
19:38:00 <Bitweasil> I know some *other* companies who believe in fallback access and such. :)
19:38:00 <Bitweasil> In-band signaling works fine, up until it doesn't.
19:38:00 <Bitweasil> And then you usually can't use it to fix the problem.
19:39:00 <junon> It's a double edged sword for me. On the one hand, I despise social media and I'm happy to see Facebook down. On the other hand, I've worked at Big Tech and know somewhat what the response teams are feeling right now. I don't envy them.
19:39:00 <kazinsal> I'm imagining people trying to get physical access to the routers then realizing their badges aren't letting them into the comms room
19:39:00 <kazinsal> And just going "anyone got an under-door tool"
19:39:00 <Bitweasil> junon, at this point, the absolute vile toxicity of Facebook is clear.
19:39:00 <Bitweasil> I will enjoy their suffering.
19:39:00 <Bitweasil> And the planet will rejoice for their downtime.
19:40:00 <Bitweasil> Today is a good day.
19:40:00 <gog> just wakin' up in the morning, gotta thank god
19:40:00 <gog> i don't know but today seem's kinda odd
19:40:00 <junon> Yes. I'm sure some people in here work for Facebook (hi, nothing personal) but a large part of me wishes it doesn't return.
19:40:00 <Bitweasil> If it went down and stayed down, the world would be a better place overnight.
19:41:00 <junon> I feel different too. Not that I use facebook (I do use whatsapp much to my dismay, so maybe that's it).
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> Our church has already fallen back to SMS.
19:41:00 <junon> I might go for a walk.
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> Go for it!
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> It's October.
19:41:00 <junon> It's 9:40pm but yeah, feels right.
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> Get a cup of coffee, tea, something, and go walk.
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> Enjoy it.
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> The world is a nicer place.
19:41:00 <gog> i was already out walking today
19:41:00 <junon> Yeah haha
19:41:00 <Bitweasil> At least for a while.
19:41:00 <gog> cold and windy
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> Brisk? :D
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> Is it... like, storm rolling in windy?
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> I *love* evenings outside when a storm is rolling in.
19:42:00 * junon sashays into the cold, misty darkness, free from the shackles of thirsty ex-Tinder folk living inside his cellular device
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> The energy in the air is incredible.
19:42:00 <gog> actually it calmed down
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> Aw.
19:42:00 <Bitweasil> I miss midwestern thunderstorms.
19:42:00 <gog> more like cold weather over the mountains windy
19:43:00 <Bitweasil> They can literally light the sky from horizon to horizon.
19:43:00 <gog> it all sinks and flows toward the sea
19:43:00 <Bitweasil> Oh, that's not as fun.
19:43:00 <gog> fall in iceland is typically very windy as the temps drop in the midlands
19:46:00 <junon> DNS is recovering
19:47:00 <junon> Dammit :( going to grab my walk now before it's all back
19:47:00 <Bitweasil> aww. :(
19:49:00 <gog> # echo "0.0.0.0 facebook.com" >> /etc/hosts
19:50:00 <gog> it can be this way forever
19:50:00 <gog> (for one system and anything else that uses it to resolve)
19:50:00 <junon> I don't use FB so not an issue. I wish people would stop using whatsapp though. Everyone in Germany uses it.
19:51:00 <gog> i mainly use it to shitpost
20:06:00 <Oli> I am wondering about if the initial # character in the message of gog containing an echo command, conveys a terminal operated by root or a comment.
20:06:00 <gog> root
20:07:00 <clever> Oli: a lot of distro's configure bash to use $ for non-root and # for root, so you can tell what user you are, and what user a cmd should be ran as
20:07:00 <Oli> Thank you for allowing me to know of, gog!
20:10:00 <Oli> It is the first time I am conscious of pondering about whether the convention of originates from a standard specification; I am now querying a web search engine about.
20:10:00 <Oli> @clever
20:13:00 <Oli> The convention of having the environment variable named as PS1 to feature a # character for user Id number 0, and a $ character for other users, instead.
21:17:00 * junon is back
21:18:00 <junon> user id 0 = root on unix
21:18:00 <junon> Regardless of username, AFAIU. You can rename root to something else though it's not advisable.
21:19:00 <junon> So the behavior `uid == 0 -> user is root` is correct.
21:20:00 <junon> btw facebook outage is causing every device that uses a facebook product to DDOS recursive DNS lookups
21:20:00 <junon> so if your sites are resolving slowly, that might be why
21:20:00 <vdamewood> Yay, I'm entirely on Digital Ocean!
21:20:00 <junon> Some servers are reporting 600ms DNS resolution times on average. Insane.
21:21:00 <junon> is DO down?
21:21:00 <Bitweasil> Awwww. :(
21:21:00 <Bitweasil> PING facebook.com (157.240.3.35) 56(84) bytes of data.
21:21:00 <Bitweasil> 64 bytes from edge-star-mini-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com (157.240.3.35): icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=29.0 ms
21:21:00 <Bitweasil> DigitalOcean?
21:21:00 <Bitweasil> I've got ping to my VM there.
21:22:00 <clever> error 503 over http!
21:22:00 <junon> Yeah I got that too.
21:23:00 <EtherNet> it resolves again now
21:23:00 <EtherNet> but the webapp is down yet
21:23:00 <junon> "something went wrong"
21:23:00 <kazinsal> I bet their eBGP is fixed but their iBGP is still borked
21:24:00 <junon> I wonder how many security policies they broke to bring stuff online since their onsites aren't authorized to access the servers
21:24:00 <junon> Or, well, weren't.
21:24:00 <junon> They were also severely understaffed because of the pandemic.
21:24:00 <junon> Oh the runbooks that will be written for this. NY Times bestsellers I'm sure.
21:25:00 <graphitemaster> I for one welcome FB being down forever
21:25:00 <vdamewood> junon: Nope. Not down. That's why I'm happy.
21:25:00 <junon> graphitemaster: I think most of us wish that haha
21:26:00 <junon> vdamewood: Oh yeah, DNS wasn't crippled to badly I don't think. Just degraded - DNS is pretty lightweight. It would be weird if DO was affected aside from DNS.
21:27:00 <vdamewood> Well, no DNS problems with DO, that I've noticed.
21:31:00 <junon> Facebook's twitter profile won't load for me lol
21:49:00 <junon> People reporting whatsapp is back online
21:50:00 <kazinsal> someone finally got an under-door tool to get into the datacenter
21:50:00 <junon> :D
21:51:00 <junon> They used some air in a can (dust cleaner) to trigger the egress motion detectors
21:51:00 <Bitweasil> Haha, I've done that before. :D
21:54:00 <kazinsal> everyone at facebook IT who's seen a deviant ollam talk is like "yesssss, it's my time to shine"
22:13:00 <kazinsal> It appears that Facebook was de-peering with NLIX and accidentally de-peered with everyone
22:19:00 <junon> well
22:19:00 <junon> yeet?
22:21:00 <junon> Sounds like it was an automated system.
22:24:00 <Bitweasil> Indeed they did.
22:24:00 <Bitweasil> Now, get back and double up the outrage, Facebook lost money today, and it's your duty as a set of eyeballs to recover it for them!
22:34:00 <junon> log in and share those minion memes folks
22:35:00 <junon> publicly broadcast your distaste for your spouse through coy humor and whatnot
22:49:00 <junon> whatsapp is back online for me hence the fun is, unfortunately, over. Time to get un-sober and go to bed.
22:49:00 <junon> Night everyone, was fun!
23:21:00 <gog> i love my wife i would never