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#osdev2 = #osdev @ Libera from 23may2021 to present
#osdev @ OPN/FreeNode from 3apr2001 to 23may2021
all other channels are on OPN/FreeNode from 2004 to present
Saturday, 18 June 2022
00:51:00 <gog> mew
00:52:00 <zid`> Good news, it's 20C. Bad news is that it's 2am.
00:52:00 <zid`> wtb 14C
00:52:00 <zid`> will pay 6C
00:52:00 <clever> "2022-06-17 21:52:30 bedroom temp: 23.06c(73.51f), kitchen: 25.25c(77.45f), living room: 24.75c(76.55f), outdoor: 16.25c(61.25f), server: 24.81c(76.66f) VCC: over 4.5 volts portb: 00000000"
00:52:00 <clever> its 23c here, and i'm not complaining
00:52:00 <zid`> outdoor 16C? open some windows!
00:53:00 <mjg_> i'm complaining
00:53:00 <zid`> I have my 120mm fan-in-window-jam going to try make it less than 30C in here
00:53:00 <vdamewood> Can't open Windows. No GUI.
00:53:00 <vdamewood> You know that fans don't lower the temperature, rright?
00:53:00 <clever> zid`: the window is open!
00:54:00 <clever> but only one is, so no draft
00:55:00 <vdamewood> Fans do help in a process that helps extract heat from your body, though.
00:55:00 * vdamewood gives gog a fishy.
00:55:00 <zid`> The fan is for moving the cold air from outside to inside, or the other way around
00:55:00 <zid`> open two windows
00:55:00 <zid`> stick fan in one window
00:56:00 <vdamewood> Though, if the air is still the same temperature, as long you have room for evaporation, the moving air helps sweat cool you off.
00:57:00 <zid`> also an option: bowl of cool water + fan
00:57:00 * gog chomps fishy
00:57:00 <zid`> if your humidity is low
00:58:00 <zid`> the air doesn't weigh a great deal, water is heavy
00:58:00 <zid`> so it ends up like 90% cold water by mass
01:03:00 <mrvn> zid`: windows doesn't run on m68k :)
01:03:00 <clever> dont say that near the amiga fans, they might make a lier out of you!
01:03:00 <mrvn> hot air rises, so suck in cold air at the bottom of the window and push it out at the top.
01:04:00 <mrvn> clever: I've run win95 on my Amiga. It's not something I would call running, more like crawling.
01:04:00 <clever> oh right, and the sidecar thing is just cheating :P
01:05:00 <mrvn> Back then I used bochs. might be better with qemu
01:07:00 <mrvn> vdamewood: the air around your body will also be warmer than room temp so replacing that with room temp air helps too.
01:07:00 <heat> mrvn, bochs crawls everything ;)
01:08:00 <mrvn> My room is currently in that temperature zone where it is too hot in the evening but then it's too cold in the morning.
01:09:00 <mrvn> So you wake up freezing in the middle of the night looking for the blanket.
01:11:00 <clever> "2022-06-17 22:11:32 bedroom temp: 22.88c(73.18f), kitchen: 25.19c(77.34f), living room: 24.75c(76.55f), outdoor: 16.19c(61.14f), server: 24.75c(76.55f) VCC: over 4.5 volts portb: 00000000"
01:11:00 <clever> dropped about 0.2 degrees, and i can feel it
01:21:00 <geist> hmm, i wonder if you can just get xtensa XL7 docs anywhere
01:21:00 <geist> like just an arch manual
02:07:00 <gog> never forget const
02:31:00 <vdamewood> const memory never forgets.
02:37:00 <zid`> Well, the birds outside seem very happy that it's sunrise at
02:37:00 <zid`> *checks watch*
02:37:00 <zid`> 3am
03:06:00 <heat> its what
03:06:00 <zid`> you heard me
03:06:00 <heat> this is creepypasta material
03:10:00 <heat> did the tories cancel nights
03:10:00 <heat> "in order for you cunts to work more, no one sleeps from now on"
03:11:00 <zid`> they'd do it if they could
03:11:00 <zid`> but they'd try and it'd get darker
03:46:00 <geist> yay got my new rk3566 board
08:22:00 <geist> it's a capable little linux machine though only 2GB ram
08:22:00 <geist> need to figure out its bootloader situatoin
08:23:00 <geist> it has uboot on it i guess, but by default everythign is totally silent, or at least i think i. need to solder on a uart header to see
08:24:00 <zid`> geist living the osdever life
08:24:00 <zid`> "I got a new computer, I wonder how its bootloader works"
08:24:00 <geist> hells yeah
08:24:00 <geist> i dont need a new firewall (yet) or if i did i'd want it to be a bit more standard
08:24:00 <geist> but would be nice to have an excuse to hack on a rockchip
08:26:00 <kazinsal> totes
08:38:00 <kazinsal> oof. sapphire rapids xeons delayed almost a year. again.
08:39:00 <kazinsal> original release window was 4Q21, then 2H22, now 2Q23
08:40:00 <zid`> sounds like post-2012 intel
08:40:00 <zid`> paper release only, no chips
11:01:00 <gamozo> Morn
11:48:00 <gog> mew
11:51:00 <zid`> gog: GeDaMo says you're made up
11:55:00 <gog> no i'm not going out today so i'm not gonna bother with makeup
12:05:00 <zid`> Same
12:05:00 <zid`> I've not done my mascara in years
12:08:00 <gog> you should
12:08:00 <gog> everybody looks better with exaggerated eyelashes
12:09:00 <zid`> my eyelashes are pretty great to begin with
12:09:00 <zid`> I could sell them
12:10:00 <zid`> also eyelashes are weird as hell as a concept
12:11:00 <zid`> There's a draft excluder along the sensitive membrane that protects your eye, and nobody ever really notices, like it isn't super weird looking
12:12:00 <kingoffrance> then the eyelashes function as a decoy :D
12:12:00 <kingoffrance> very useful
12:18:00 <gog> gotta keep the drafts out of your eye
12:35:00 <zid`> fuck yes, it's suddenly cold and raining
12:36:00 <zid`> please deposit your envy at the door it will be collected by my servants later
12:37:00 <sbalmos> after a week of 95F/110F+ heat index and either torrential rain or haze that did nothing to the heat, it's 62F this morning and sunny clear. time to go flying.
12:38:00 <gog> the other day it was like 15° so i wore a summer outfit and then while i was at work the temperature dropped down to 5°
12:38:00 <gog> and i had biked to work lol
12:39:00 <zid`> That's why you should a) never go outside and b) dress like an eskimo
12:39:00 <gog> well i have to get to work somehow
12:39:00 <zid`> if it's too hot you can always tear off your clothes like a mad lady and start screaming about the ants eating your stomach
12:40:00 <zid`> just so they don't think you're weird for stripping in the street ofc
12:40:00 <mrvn> sbalmos: you mean after a half fortnight?
12:41:00 <sbalmos> sure
12:41:00 <sbalmos> half-sprint, half-work-unit, take your pick. ;)
12:41:00 <zid`> They will say "Oh that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, ants sure are annoying", and then go about their day
12:42:00 <zid`> but with some kind of icelandic accent, I assume
12:43:00 <sbalmos> zid`: better than screaming about the worms eating your stomach? though I guess screaming "I've got worms!" wouldn't quite work
12:43:00 <zid`> Exactly, that just leads to other suspicions
12:43:00 <zid`> it has to be something clean you can just stop the rumors dead with
12:44:00 <zid`> with no room for other interpretations
12:44:00 <Mutabah> Huzzah, EHCI driver working enough to enumerate devices
12:47:00 <mrvn> gog: if I'm lazy and have to go to work I roll over in bed and turn on the laptop.
12:47:00 <gog> nice
12:48:00 <zid`> mice.
12:48:00 <gog> my boss doesn't want us to work from home and tbh i really don't want to either
12:48:00 <gog> at least not at the moment
12:48:00 <gog> i've got a big desk and three monitors there
12:49:00 <gog> makes it easiesr to deal with the hundreds of phone calls i answer
12:49:00 <sbalmos> I sometimes miss the (very low) white noise of others outside the office door
12:51:00 <j`ey> Mutabah: gg
16:15:00 <mrvn> Anyone have some simple code to turn a series of framebuffers into a video?
16:17:00 <GeDaMo> Maybe ffmpeg?
16:18:00 <mrvn> obviously, is there any other?
19:48:00 <geist> zid`: heh it's been cold and rainign here for like 9 monutes
19:48:00 <geist> months
19:51:00 <bauen1> geist: can i trade you some german 32°C+ weather for that ?
19:51:00 <geist> it's unusually cold and wet this june here. should have already warmed up
19:51:00 <geist> though we usually dont get much into the 30s here
19:53:00 <zid`> bauen1: you were supposed to leave your envy for my servants to collect
20:38:00 <gog> mew
20:43:00 * moon-child pets god
20:47:00 <zid`> I'm out here getting pog
20:55:00 <gog> poggers
21:09:00 <zid`> moon-child pets gog, I get pog.
21:10:00 <heat_> pogchamp
21:15:00 * moon-child feeling very depressed, considering booze and/or ice cream
21:15:00 <moon-child> but it's still early afternoon, i should try to do something...
21:16:00 <geist> usually taking a walk helps when i'm feeling down
21:20:00 <zid`> I recommend made in abyss, can't feel sad if you're having a panic attack
21:21:00 <geist> oh geez. also the second season is landing this year i think
21:22:00 <zid`> couple of weeks, infact
21:22:00 <zid`> wait, maybe I'm swapping that for something else
21:22:00 <zid`> yea, 6th next month
21:24:00 <zid`> also yofukashi no uta, the magoo of which I randomly found and read last week and really liked, so I get 2 adaptations at once for things I like
21:28:00 <zid`> Whether they can get the atmosphere right is gunna make or break that one though
22:09:00 <mjg_> uh... the title made me thin it's a sci-fi a'la even horizon
22:09:00 <mjg_> event
22:10:00 <zid`> It's a cute series about small children living happy lives
22:12:00 <mjg_> i recommend Grave of the Fireflies
22:12:00 <mjg_> it's a cute story about 2 little siblings
22:12:00 <mjg_> don't be mislead by the title!
22:13:00 <zid`> Yes it is a very good movie everybody should watch precisely once
22:13:00 <zid`> Then attach their best seal to, and put under guard
22:15:00 <mjg_> i hear "Come and See" (not an anime) is a hearth-warming coming of age story
22:15:00 <mjg_> it is on my to-watch list
22:16:00 <zid`> have you seen When the wind blows
22:17:00 <mjg_> no
22:18:00 <mjg_> ok, read the synopsis, nice to have a happy retirement story
22:18:00 <zid`> I just wish people wouldn't be rude about it and call it a disaster of a movie
22:18:00 <zid`> I thought it was very good
23:33:00 <heat> how does one easily read a whole line from stdin without setting an arbitrary limit?
23:33:00 <heat> in C
23:37:00 <\Test_User> getline
23:37:00 <\Test_User> will be null-terminated though
23:37:00 <zid`> read() might just fail early regardless, so what is the real question imo
23:38:00 <zid`> like, nothing stops posix giving you 4096 characters then another 84 characters
23:38:00 <zid`> nothing in posix stops it*
23:39:00 <kazinsal> fread() in chunks until you find a newline then ungetc any unwanted bits back into the stream
23:40:00 <zid`> or read() a byte at a time and don't, slower but works
23:40:00 <heat> these are all horrific solutions
23:40:00 <zid`> why don't you ask the real question
23:40:00 <zid`> acting like we've never seen an xy before
23:41:00 <heat> getline looks useful, GNU extension?
23:41:00 <kazinsal> if you didn't want horrors you wouldn't be doing whatever it is you're doing in c stdio
23:41:00 <heat> *that* is the question lol
23:41:00 <zid`> it's not even anything to do with cstdio tbh, it's just not something posix lets you do
23:41:00 <zid`> so *why* are you trying to work around posix? what problem do you have?
23:41:00 <\Test_User> it's a part of stdin.h on my system, but that's about all I know about where it comes from
23:41:00 <kazinsal> getline was a gnu extension until posix2008 iirc
23:42:00 <heat> i just want a way to grab an arbitrarily long line from stdin because I've seen this problem a lot of times when writing C code
23:42:00 <heat> and a way that doesn't require me to reinvent the wheel/loop realloc calls + fgets
23:42:00 <psykose> getline is posix, seems fine
23:42:00 <zid`> rephrase it as a different problem imo, do it as a slice algo or something
23:42:00 <zid`> or use someone else's code
23:43:00 <zid`> getopt for example
23:43:00 <kazinsal> so yeah the answer is "getline on new posix, or reimplement getline on old posix/iso c"
23:43:00 <heat> psykose, oh right, the comment in the header is outdated
23:43:00 <heat> " This function is not part of POSIX"
23:44:00 <kazinsal> I won't look at the glibc implementation of getline because I don't want my eyeballs to be permanently tainted
23:44:00 <kazinsal> but I would bet it's just a fgets/realloc loop
23:45:00 <heat> you wish pal
23:45:00 <heat> i just got mine tainted
23:45:00 <heat> you can't use fgets because it uses getdelim as the backend
23:46:00 <zid`> fgets is annoying in that it returns the \n
23:46:00 <heat> and the logic there is... fucking hell
23:46:00 <heat> oh yeah that too
23:46:00 <zid`> so I generally just write a quick 'grab a string'
23:46:00 <kazinsal> hmm, yeah, reading the freebsd one it's slower but more careful
23:46:00 <kazinsal> I don't hate it
23:47:00 <heat> i don't particularly dislike the musl one compared to glibc
23:48:00 <heat> and that tells you everything you need to know about glibc lol
23:48:00 <heat> but yeah, this fucking sucks ig
23:49:00 <heat> i had a programming puzzle I wanted to write in C for the challenge and the first thing that pissed me off was stdio
23:49:00 <heat> somehow, still better than iostreams
23:49:00 <zid`> yea that's honestly the worst part of doing advent of code etc in C
23:49:00 <zid`> you have to parse all the data in first
23:50:00 <heat> i still dunno how to parse stdio or strings in C++
23:50:00 <\Test_User> if stdio was written in C++ then no doubt it'd be worse than iostreams :P
23:50:00 <heat> the last time I did my coding interview I said screw it and used sscanf in C++
23:51:00 <heat> I passed, which means big tech agrees with me
23:51:00 <gog> iostreams is bad
23:51:00 <zid`> iostreams is incredibly bad
23:51:00 <zid`> It's so bad that exceptions would actually make its interface better
23:51:00 <gog> printf/scanf is better
23:51:00 <heat> it has exceptions btw
23:52:00 <zid`> std::cin.ignore(std::numeric_limits<std::streamsize>::max(), '\n');
23:52:00 <zid`> it also has this, thankfully
23:52:00 <heat> the one thing I really like iostreams for: "std::string s; std::cin >> s;"
23:52:00 <kazinsal> yeah I haven't intentionally written any code that uses iostream in a very *very* long time
23:53:00 <zid`> is it even possible to use cin
23:53:00 <zid`> I've genuinely never seen anybody pull it off
23:53:00 <heat> also overriding operator<< and >> for iostream and custom objects is pretty cool
23:53:00 <gog> no
23:53:00 <gog> it's not
23:53:00 <gog> i hate that
23:53:00 <heat> yes it is
23:53:00 <\Test_User> s/cool/terrible/
23:53:00 <zid`> That has massive implications to its usefulness though
23:54:00 <zid`> << can't give errors, mainly
23:54:00 <heat> it can throw
23:54:00 <heat> this is C++ homie
23:54:00 <zid`> it doesn't though
23:54:00 <zid`> it just sets an error flag
23:55:00 <zid`> and goes into an infinite loop because nobody actually bothers to check for errors with cin because it's impossible
23:55:00 <gog> no no no no don't override arithmetic operators to do non arithmetic things
23:55:00 <\Test_User> ^
23:55:00 <zid`> and that loop ends up reading the final character twice even if you try
23:55:00 <heat> gog, that's not the point....
23:55:00 <heat> the point is that you can indeed add custom printing
23:55:00 <\Test_User> zid`: I actually have used it sucessfully one, hated it but it has been done
23:55:00 <heat> you can also do that with glibc, but it's horrible and bad at everything
23:55:00 <\Test_User> *once
23:56:00 <zid`> And they had to add an entire keyword to even allow that :P
23:56:00 <heat> <format> is better but printing only
23:56:00 <heat> which one?
23:56:00 <zid`> friend
23:56:00 <heat> no?
23:56:00 <zid`> "yes we know our OO is broken as fuck, here's a patch to make it even more broken, but will let you use iostream to custom print"
23:57:00 <gog> hey zid wanna be my friend
23:57:00 <heat> you don't need friend to do that
23:57:00 <zid`> gog: Do I get a stipend?
23:57:00 <gog> yyyyy-no
23:57:00 <zid`> maybe we can just be lovers then, rather than friends
23:57:00 <zid`> loverzoned.
23:57:00 <psykose> inherit me
23:58:00 <heat> if you can replace gog in gsoc you can get a stipend
23:58:00 <heat> downside: uefi
23:58:00 <gog> yes
23:58:00 <heat> it's a tradeoff
23:58:00 <zid`> tempting, but that downside is pretty harsh
23:58:00 <gog> it's $6000 tho
23:58:00 <zid`> I thought you worked at cloudonfire anyway, why are you pimping gsoc?
23:58:00 <heat> do you like: GUIDs and arcane obtuse custom build systems
23:59:00 <gog> ngl i actually like GUIDs
23:59:00 <heat> zid`, i do both homie
23:59:00 <gog> they're globally unique and i appreciate that about them
23:59:00 <heat> pimpin aint easy but i still do two pimpins at once
23:59:00 <zid`> do you get a cut of the stipend
23:59:00 <heat> no