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Wednesday, 13 September 2023

00:48:00 <moon-child> gog: rm -rf * 4head
00:51:00 * kof13 checks manual "I say, thou seest not this head of the Crow, the black of the blackest black, thou must begin again, for this fault is irreperable, and not to be amended"
00:52:00 <kof13> problem is it is half-rotted, half rotten code mixed with live code. if it was 100% rotted, it would have a nice stable base atop of dead hardware (not a moving target)
00:52:00 <kof13> rot or rot not, there is no half-rot
00:52:00 <kof13> </yoda>
01:05:00 <gog> you've never seen the codebase shape and maintain
01:06:00 <gog> i shape
01:06:00 <gog> software is more like teeth
01:06:00 <gog> some might be obviously bad
01:06:00 <zid> highspeed whirring inc
01:07:00 <gog> some might look good but hide a deep cavity and be about to crack
01:08:00 <zid> My cat has done an absolutely tremendous shit and the entire house stinks.
01:09:00 <gog> go scoop it and bag it and put it outside then
01:09:00 <zid> I'm not sure I'd catch her.
01:09:00 <gog> i meant the poo
01:09:00 <zid> I don't think you understand just how much it smells, it's tangiable.
01:09:00 <gog> your cat doesn't want to be living in a shit-smelling house anymore than you do
01:10:00 <gog> there's a solution
01:10:00 <zid> if she really thought that she'd have buried it
01:10:00 <gog> ohhh
01:10:00 <gog> well that's an attack on you
01:10:00 <zid> she's just not very good at it :/
01:10:00 <zid> she often digs but completely misses it
01:11:00 <gog> aw
01:11:00 <zid> "I do the poo, then I dig" she hasn't got the "I dig to cover it" aspect
01:11:00 <zid> litter all over the floor == litter all over the poop
01:11:00 <zid> JOB DONE, 100% SUCCESS.
01:15:00 <gog> good kitty
01:15:00 <Cindy> can i meow for compliements
01:16:00 <gog> yes
01:16:00 <gog> you're a good kitty too
01:17:00 <zid> does my allocator kind of sorta work with huge drawbacks, yet?
01:17:00 <zid> (That's the quality level I am looking for)
01:17:00 <gog> oh i'm sorry i started playing factorio instead
01:17:00 <zid> understandable
01:21:00 <zid> I have a 120mm PC fan connected to a random 10V transformer I found for a dead phone or router or something
01:21:00 <zid> sucking in outside fresh air
01:21:00 <zid> breathing through nose again unlocked
04:20:00 <gorgonical> what a world that we live in
04:20:00 <gorgonical> where peanut butter exists
04:20:00 <gorgonical> ambrosia indeed
04:20:00 <zid> it's okay
04:20:00 <zid> americans, clapping and peanut butter
04:21:00 <gorgonical> clapping i'll grant you, but i would expire if i went more than a year without peanut butter
04:21:00 <zid> how is that a disagreement!?
04:21:00 <zid> there's no universe in which that's a "but"
04:21:00 <zid> I think you mean "Incredibly sharp observation, I would infact, give up on life if not for peanut butter"
04:22:00 <gorgonical> I wouldn't give up
04:22:00 <gorgonical> My body would give out
04:22:00 <zid> That's.. you
04:22:00 <gorgonical> Like a car without gas
04:22:00 <zid> unless someone else is piloting your body these days?
04:22:00 <zid> do you have some kind of dysmorphia where you don't think your body is part of you? oh no
04:22:00 <gorgonical> who's that mascot that's a peanut
04:23:00 <gorgonical> he's the one driving these days
04:25:00 <kof13> i think it is just mr. planters peanut, but he may be a resurrected form of monopoly man, or a cousin
04:26:00 <gorgonical> zid: have you ever had dandan noodles? it's a sichuan dish
04:26:00 <gorgonical> in china it's made with sesame paste but of course here in america i see it as often made with peanut butter
04:27:00 <kof13> this i agree with, delicious szechuan zone must stay neutral in case of any way, lest heavenly food be lost
04:27:00 <kof13> *war
04:27:00 <zid> no
04:28:00 <zid> I might go make noodles though
04:28:00 <sham1> What a morning to wake up to and to see that Itanium support was removed from Linux. RIP
04:28:00 <gorgonical> i made pad thai this evening, without peanut butter
04:28:00 <gorgonical> so that wasn't very american of me
04:28:00 <zid> failed as an american then
04:28:00 <zid> sham1: was it merged?
04:28:00 <zid> It was still being debated this morning
04:29:00 <sham1> oh
04:29:00 <sham1> Must have misread
04:29:00 <zid> just because someone drops a patch doesn't mean it gets merged, it's an RFC
04:29:00 <zid> request for comments
04:29:00 <sham1> Sure, but I'm still in shock
04:29:00 <zid> A small convo happened about how hard ia64 was to maintain
04:30:00 <zid> the concensus was "not much, mm code has to care a little about it"
04:30:00 <zid> so it seems mostly like a "meh" result
04:32:00 <zid> if it rots farther it will definitely go, but rn it looks like nobody cares *enough* about either side, removing it OR maintaining it for a clear answer
04:36:00 <gorgonical> in dutch it's called pindakaas because the dairy lobby was very upset about the idea of it being called peanut "butter" and so it's called peanut cheese instead
04:36:00 <gorgonical> which is a decidedly worse name
04:52:00 <zid> k I am back, avec noogle
04:58:00 <zid> recipe: fry some finely chopped onion and garlic in soy sauce + oil + chilli powder while boiling noogle, add noogle to frying pan, stir, tip into bowl
04:58:00 <gorgonical> I have a hypothesis that the number of kinds of cheeses you have in your fridge at any one time is directly related to your happiness
04:58:00 <zid> poshness*
04:58:00 <zid> Does two types of cheddar count as two or one, btw?
04:59:00 <gorgonical> two
04:59:00 <gorgonical> Would they be placed together on a cheeseboard is the test
04:59:00 <zid> cheese is fucking expensive, it used to be the most shoplifted thing in supermarkets
04:59:00 <gorgonical> just british things
04:59:00 <zid> we weren't so broke that it was baby formula
04:59:00 <zid> and meat is too bulky
04:59:00 <zid> so it was cheese
04:59:00 <zid> good cost/volume ratio
05:00:00 <gorgonical> and transportable
05:00:00 <gorgonical> chuck several blocks of parm into the bag and you can make cacio e pepe for weeks
05:00:00 <zid> parmesan comes in BLOCKS!?
05:00:00 <gorgonical> ???
05:00:00 <gorgonical> yes
05:00:00 <zid> how do they deliver that, solid gold ferrari?
05:00:00 <gorgonical> like wedges from a wheel
05:01:00 <gorgonical> well it isn't real parm
05:01:00 <gorgonical> we have wisconsin to stand in for italy here
05:01:00 <zid> (£25/kg in the supermarket, so it's probably crap parmesan too)
05:01:00 <gorgonical> holy shit lol
05:01:00 <gorgonical> the parm i buy is like $8/lb and it's fine to me
05:03:00 <zid> It's not parmesan unless it comes from italy, what you've got is sparkling milk product.
05:04:00 <gorgonical> have you ever had that cheese with the mites on it
05:04:00 <gorgonical> mimolette?
05:04:00 <zid> no I only go for the one with maggots ofc
05:04:00 <zid> no ofc I fucking haven't, you sick bastard
05:04:00 <gorgonical> lol
05:04:00 <zid> I've had plain cheddar, and extra plain cheddar
05:05:00 <zid> and whatever the plastic is they put on takeaway pizza
05:05:00 <zid> love that shit
05:05:00 <gorgonical> that phrasing makes me imagine that it has like american cheese slices placed upon it, like a horrid margherita pizza
05:06:00 <zid> oh god no
05:06:00 <zid> american cheese is not rubbery at all
05:06:00 <gorgonical> anti-rubbery even
05:06:00 <zid> In pizza adverts they use pva glue
05:06:00 <zid> to simulate hot cheese
05:06:00 <zid>
05:07:00 <zid> Reconditioned polyvinyl rubber with dying agents ^
05:07:00 <zid> It's way better than actual cheese
05:07:00 <zid> actual cheese just splits
05:07:00 <gorgonical> why is this allowed
05:07:00 <zid> why is what allowed
05:07:00 <gorgonical> food advertising with not food
05:08:00 <zid> no idea
05:08:00 <zid> A lot of it just straight CGI these days, but there used to be sick high speed camera labs
05:08:00 <zid> that'd launch strawberries at milk and stuff
05:08:00 <gorgonical> I mean how is it any different from a bologna commercial where they show only ribeye and prime rib going into your bologna
05:08:00 <gorgonical> "serving suggestion"
05:08:00 <zid> with high speed robotic arms
05:09:00 <kof13> this was supposedly part of the reasoning behind the nintendo seal of quality
05:09:00 <kof13> but i point at cool spot nes
05:09:00 <kof13> i think only the snes was it finally more like the ad
05:09:00 <kof13> rather than basically a board game
05:09:00 <zid> the reason it's allowed, btw, is that almost always the food on set is stone fucking cold
05:09:00 <kof13> *an animated
05:09:00 <zid> so as long as they're not doing it to mislead, but instead to *fix* the issue with the food being cold
05:10:00 <zid> then they're fine
05:10:00 <zid> another common trick is to microwave a wet tampon to get steam behind things
05:10:00 <gorgonical> i should try that for real
05:11:00 <zid> anything wet would work
05:11:00 <gorgonical> like buy dishes with a steam slot
05:11:00 <zid> tampons come with nice carrying handles
05:11:00 <zid> after you microwave it
05:11:00 <gorgonical> "look how delicious this fresh, hot pad thai is!
05:12:00 <zid> no, you use a pad to make pad thai steam, duh
05:12:00 <zid> transport it via the wings
05:12:00 <gorgonical> touche
05:13:00 <zid> is that a bad mispelling of douche?
05:13:00 <gorgonical> just the american one
05:13:00 <zid> okay why am I being called a douche
05:13:00 <gorgonical> no i'm brainstorming
05:13:00 <gorgonical> feminine hygeine products as used in food photography
07:48:00 <pyzozord> het, how can an operating system kernel code use printf?
07:48:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/init.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
07:49:00 <Mutabah> they've defined their own printf
07:50:00 <pyzozord> they indeed did but I don't see any header file imported in init.c that would indicate that they use that
07:50:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/printf.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
07:51:00 <pyzozord> also that printf takes a file descriptor but this is the beginning of the main function of the kernel, there is no files yet, such a concept doesn't exist at this stage in the kernel initialization, no?
07:52:00 <pyzozord> ah sorry i'm worng they are indeed doing some open() and dup() just above, maybe file descriptors already somehow exist in the kernel
07:53:00 <pyzozord> looks like open is defined as syscall in assemlby?
07:53:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/usys.S at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
07:53:00 <pyzozord> i'm not sure how to understand this code
08:01:00 <puck> pyzozord: mov SYS_open, %eax; int $64; ret; what's hard to understand :p
08:02:00 <pyzozord> where is sys_open coming from
08:03:00 <puck> syscall.h
08:05:00 <pyzozord> so thibut then in syscall.c open sys_open is extern?
08:05:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/syscall.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
08:05:00 <pyzozord> ah it's defined here
08:05:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/sysfile.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
08:06:00 <puck> pyzozord: that's a different SYS_open anyways
08:06:00 <puck> but yes
08:07:00 <puck> pyzozord: SYS_open is just an index into the syscall table, which points to sys_open
08:10:00 <pyzozord> btw what's uart? I see here that consputc calls both uartputc and cgaputc
08:10:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/console.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
08:11:00 <pyzozord> looks like cgaputc is using "CRTPORT" so I assume that is directly sending bytes to the crt
08:14:00 <GeDaMo> UART is a serial interface
08:16:00 <pyzozord> strange so it's sending bytes both to serial interface and to CRT?
08:19:00 <pyzozord> I mean this
08:19:00 <bslsk05> ​ xv6-public/console.c at master · mit-pdos/xv6-public · GitHub
08:21:00 <pyzozord> looks like cgaputc is using outb which is x86 instruction for memory mapped io, so I think that means this one really sends data directly to a CRT display
08:23:00 <pyzozord> looks like uartputc also uses that outb instruciton, but to a COM1 address
08:24:00 <pyzozord> so there are only 4 ports on an x86 computer? and they all have conventions for what they are used?
08:25:00 <GeDaMo>
08:25:00 <bslsk05> ​ I/O Ports - OSDev Wiki
08:29:00 <pyzozord> "If you want access to a device, you will need to look up the details for the device in question" how can one "look up the details of a device" without knowing it's prot?
08:31:00 <GeDaMo> Presumably you know which device you're interested in
08:32:00 <pyzozord> so in case of plug-and-play when ports can be assigned dynamically, we need to do a port scan?
08:33:00 <pyzozord> and then each device will have it's own protocol and some way to identify itself, and it's the job of hardware driver software to know these protocols and identify devices?
08:49:00 <sham1> AML
08:50:00 <pyzozord> AML?
08:51:00 <sham1> ACPI Machine Language. Which despite its name is not a machine language
08:53:00 <pyzozord> oh interesting so ACPI is like standarization of the protocols i was talking about
10:36:00 <gog> hI??
11:01:00 <sham1> !iH
11:02:00 <gog> meow
11:02:00 <gog> i really, really hate this unholy mess of msbuild and grunt and webpack and node
11:03:00 <Ermine> gog: may I pet you
11:03:00 <gog> yes
11:03:00 * Ermine pets gog
11:04:00 <sham1> webpack is very convoluted, yes
11:07:00 <gog> i just did a small task of a larger one where we're nuding our build system to no longer have discrepancies between dev and prod
11:08:00 <gog> nudging*
11:11:00 <gog> maybe i'll write an allocator for zid today
11:11:00 <gog> maybe i'll play factorio
11:11:00 <gog> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
11:14:00 <GeDaMo> Build an allocator in Factorio! :P
11:27:00 <gog> i mean
11:27:00 <gog> circuit network is pretty powerful
11:27:00 <gog> i have a setup to build only the number of whatever item has a negative value in the logistics network
12:16:00 <gog> hi
13:47:00 <zid> heat you 100% need to run this video through libcaca and have it as the splash for onyx's bootup
13:47:00 <bslsk05> ​ <no title>
13:49:00 <GeDaMo> Bad link?
13:49:00 <zid> oh wow
13:49:00 <zid> oh cut the final char off
13:50:00 <zid>
13:50:00 <bslsk05> ​'Mundial Ronaldinho Soccer 64 [Full HD Intro]' by Mato (00:00:23)
13:50:00 <zid> stupid bot spoils it now
13:50:00 <heat> hahaha
13:50:00 <zid> ha ha ha ha ronaldinho socccccer*
13:53:00 <puck> hrmm
13:53:00 <puck> if i could somehow fit this in <1M i'd load it into my vvbios
13:53:00 <puck> uh, probably <500k
13:54:00 <zid> I think if you libcaca + zipped it or whatever it'd be that
13:54:00 <puck> no it has to be graphics
13:54:00 <puck> also, audio
13:54:00 <puck> like. if i turn on my machine rn the first thing you see is kickstart 3.1.4
13:54:00 <puck> then boots into linux
13:54:00 <puck> i created an uefi driver that does this then just kinda flashed it into the vbios (aka option rom) of my gpu
13:55:00 <puck> in effect what i have done is create something that'd be a great prank for a repair guy
13:56:00 <heat> the fuck is libcaca btw
13:57:00 <heat> caca is a portuguese slang for shit
13:57:00 <zid> yes
13:57:00 <zid> the icon is infact, a turd
13:57:00 <zid>
13:57:00 <GeDaMo> There are some low res versions available via yt-dlp
13:57:00 <zid> It's a library for turning images into terminal escape codes
13:58:00 <zid> libcocoa was the original but didn't do colour or something, afaik
13:58:00 <puck> GeDaMo: yeah but 1440p display
13:58:00 <puck> i mean i could probably just have it load a video off of disk
13:58:00 <heat> damn is caca an international slang for shit
13:58:00 <zid> there's a libavcodec version of it
13:58:00 <zid> yes
13:58:00 <puck> ..though i'm unsure disks are *up* by the time the gpu gets initialisede
13:58:00 <zid> the english cognate word is 'cack'
13:58:00 <zid> most indoeuropean langs have it
13:58:00 <puck> and it's harder to do reading a file than include_bytes!()
13:59:00 <heat> huh
13:59:00 <heat> cool stuff
13:59:00 <puck> but also lol amd doesn't care if i just add a fourth efi driver to the gpu
13:59:00 <heat> >include_bytes!()
13:59:00 <heat> >rust
13:59:00 <zid> include not bytes
13:59:00 <heat> booooooooooooooo
13:59:00 <heat> boooooooooooooooooooooo
13:59:00 <puck> heat: look do you want me to like
13:59:00 <puck> heat: write EFI code in C
13:59:00 <puck> heat: do i havve to go learn zig
13:59:00 <puck> .. i guess i could compile go to uefi
14:00:00 <heat> stahp :(
14:00:00 <GeDaMo>
14:00:00 <FireFly> heat: no in swedish a kaka is a cake :v
14:00:00 <bslsk05> ​ Binary resource inclusion (since C23) -
14:00:00 <puck> maybe i could just write in JS and run it under
14:00:00 <bslsk05> ​osresearch/safeboot-loader - Linux kernel module to use UEFI Block IO Protocol devices. Probably not a good idea. (8 forks/53 stargazers)
14:00:00 <puck> GeDaMo: i also need a GIF parser
14:00:00 <heat> you could embed edk2's shitty python port and use that
14:00:00 <puck> actually. do you think i could fit linux in <1MiB of storage
14:00:00 <puck> i could have a GPU that just boots linux when you install it
14:01:00 <heat> compressed?
14:01:00 <zid> yes but it'd be shit
14:01:00 <puck> heat: maaaayb
14:01:00 <puck> zid: i mean
14:01:00 <heat> you'd probably struggle
14:01:00 <heat> i don't know how small tinyconfig is
14:01:00 <puck> for a while i had a GPU that'd turn on, show kickstart, and hang your EFI forever, just looping the same animation over and over
14:01:00 <puck> which, again, great prank to RMA a GPU with
14:01:00 <zid> ATA only etc
14:02:00 <zid> 32bit only
14:02:00 <heat> but my kinda-reduced test kernel is 10MiB
14:02:00 <puck> zid: 64-bit, no disk drivers needed
14:02:00 <zid> no networking
14:02:00 <puck> zid: (it uses the EFI)
14:02:00 <puck> same for networking, EFI drivers used
14:02:00 <zid> no I mean
14:02:00 <zid> no networking
14:02:00 <heat> >EFI networking stack
14:02:00 <heat> fucking hell
14:02:00 <zid> the stack is huge
14:02:00 <puck> ah, fair
14:02:00 <puck> heat: i trust them to not fuck up putting packets onto the wire and taking them off the wire
14:02:00 <heat> do not
14:02:00 <zid> I bet there's like 8MB of code if you enable every networking option
14:02:00 <heat> trust firmware developers
14:02:00 <heat> with anything
14:03:00 <puck> zid: okay, appletalk only then
14:03:00 <zid> appletalk has its own networking stack?
14:03:00 <heat> i wouldn't trust them not to run with scissors
14:03:00 <FireFly> I mean I guess you want EFI networking for netboot purposes maybe?
14:03:00 <puck> hrmm
14:04:00 <puck> do i trust iPXE more than EFI devs....
14:04:00 <puck> 50/50, i thitnk
14:04:00 <FireFly> heh
14:05:00 <puck> i got burned after realising iPXE fetching files over HTTP is quadratic when using chunked transmission
14:15:00 <zid> there's a typhoon doing laps above me
14:15:00 <zid> at 600mph
14:17:00 <heat> EFI iPXE uses EFI's network stack i'm relatively sure
14:17:00 <heat> but the iPXE dev(s) are pretty competent
14:18:00 <heat> at least relatively to firmware devs
14:23:00 <puck> heat: sometimes.
14:23:00 <puck> but the iPXE source code doesn't entirely fill me with confidence
16:32:00 <heat> gog: solaris 10
16:34:00 <gog> yes
16:34:00 <gog> YES
16:34:00 * gog does the sickos meme
16:37:00 <heat> true sickos enjoy HP-UX
16:38:00 <heat> >In January 2023, IBM moved development of AIX to its Indian subsidiary.[19]
16:38:00 <heat> sad heat noises
16:38:00 <zid> heat did you port the video yet
16:39:00 <heat> no
16:41:00 <heat> zid did you write my allocator yet
16:41:00 <zid> you were writing mine
16:41:00 <heat> no you were writing mine
16:41:00 <heat> gog was writing yours
16:41:00 <gog> no i was playing factorio again
16:42:00 <heat> gosh darnit
16:42:00 <heat> these portuguese people are so lazy
16:42:00 <heat> doing their fucking siestas
16:42:00 <gog> not even caring when wine floods the stree
16:45:00 <netbsduser> hp-ux is an incredible os
16:45:00 <heat> <heat> true sickos enjoy HP-UX
16:45:00 <heat> CALLED IT
16:45:00 <netbsduser> they turned everything into a hashtable in it
16:46:00 <heat> wasn't that sunos
16:46:00 <heat> where the page cache was just a giant hashtable hashed by vnode and offset
16:46:00 <heat> funny stuff
16:46:00 <zid> netbsduser: Still haven't had those popadoms
16:47:00 <netbsduser> zid: where do you live?
16:47:00 <zid> se england
16:48:00 <zid> well, e, depends where you fall on the north south divide
16:56:00 <heat> i live in the
16:57:00 <zid> al garve
16:59:00 <heat> i live in spain 2 electric boogaloo
16:59:00 <heat> alexandra, toca despacito
18:15:00 <gog> hi
18:21:00 <sham1> hi
18:22:00 <gog> i'm going to make chicken burritos
18:22:00 <sortie> My OS boots to a graphical terminal on my UEFI laptop in 350 ms :)
18:22:00 <gog> that's fast
18:22:00 <gog> sortix sortix sooooooooortix
18:22:00 <sortie> 11.26 s if you count that damn dell firmware logo
18:23:00 <gog> i have never liked dell
18:23:00 <gog> i owned two in my life
18:23:00 <zid> dell's consumer stuff was super cheap
18:23:00 <zid> and nast
18:23:00 <gog> i had two latitude D-series
18:23:00 <sortie> I never say no when my mom offers me old laptops and desktops from her work for just $40
18:23:00 <gog> they were very cheap
18:24:00 <gog> but they were also very old and used
18:26:00 <sortie> Yeah this latitude is a good bit newer than the ones I've had, it's actually quite pleasant. Intel Core i5-8350U CPU @ 3.60 GHz (with 4 cores, plus hyperthreading), 16 GiB RAM, Intel UHD Graphics 620, and 256 GB disk. Plus my OS runs very well on it in full native resolution, keyboard and mouse works, disk driver works. I just gotta implement UEFI booting and installation officially. Oh and I need to write a network driver for it
18:27:00 <sortie> Only problem is that it seems to be unstable and deadlock under Linux, probably related to graphics
18:27:00 <sortie> It's a very good Sortix laptop tho
18:28:00 <gog> not bad
18:28:00 <gog> don't need linux if you have the power of the triangle
18:29:00 <sortie> Boot to trianglix in 333 ms
18:29:00 <gog> 3 3 3
18:29:00 <gog> three sides
18:29:00 <sortie> 1/3
18:29:00 <gog> the triangle is the strongest polygon
18:29:00 <gog> and the fastest
18:30:00 <heat> DELLS SUCKS ASS
18:30:00 <sortie> You ever have a bunch of squares and want to make a triangle? Can't do it.
18:30:00 <heat> dells are basically not computers
18:30:00 <gog> dude you're gettin a dell
18:30:00 <sortie> You're just jealous of my Sortix laptop
18:30:00 <zid> I got a free laptop recently
18:30:00 <heat> did i ever tell you all the story of my work laptop that dropped to 300Mhz under load? i did? i know
18:31:00 <zid> not sure if I wanna plug my arcade controller into it
18:31:00 <zid> or plug my OS into it
18:31:00 <sortie> heat, fuck yeah I remember that, and they never got back up to normal clock speed
18:31:00 <heat> The Great Sortix Operating System needs The Great ThermalD
18:31:00 <heat> if it ever desires to run on such great latitude mdoels
18:32:00 <heat> rock solid firmware
18:32:00 <sortie> idk what that is
18:32:00 <heat> thermald?
18:32:00 <sortie> yeah
18:33:00 <zid> Are there w10 drivers for my capture card heat
18:33:00 <gog> thermald unfucks computers with bad thermal throttling
18:33:00 <sortie> Of course heat wants to push thermald
18:33:00 <gog> haa
18:33:00 <zid> looks like no
18:33:00 <heat> what gog said
18:33:00 <gog> i get it
18:33:00 <heat> hehe
18:33:00 <heat> hehe
18:33:00 <zid> fucking w10
18:33:00 <gog> sheshe
18:33:00 <sortie> How?
18:33:00 <heat> zid, i don't know
18:34:00 <zid> should I go back to w7
18:34:00 <zid> so that my hw works
18:34:00 <heat> thermald does fancy x86 stuff and fancy ACPI stuff in response to all sorts of thermal and power events
18:37:00 <heat> with kernel support ofc
19:10:00 <geist> i forget what was the forcing function to hvae to move to w10. d3d12?
19:12:00 <geist> hmm, looks like there was a d3d12 runtime on 7 at some point, but still was a bit different
19:12:00 <zid> yea, WoW made them add it
19:12:00 <zid> and I think maybe cyberpunk or something used it too
19:12:00 <zid> so you could just steal their dlls
19:15:00 <geist> i did upgrade to w11 on my main machine from w11.though it's mostly the same thing, it's definitely not an improvement
19:15:00 <geist> so definitely stay away from that until you're forced to
19:15:00 <geist> from w10 that is
19:16:00 <geist> w11 seems to be asically the same thing except a few core pieces have been rewritten/reimplemented and has the usual 'new but missing half the functionality of the old' problem
19:16:00 <geist> explorer, task manager, etc
19:16:00 <geist> task bar
19:17:00 <geist> far as i can tell the main impetus for the w11 changes is to provide more ways to shove ads in your face
19:18:00 <zid> main issue with running modern builds of stuff on w10 was just that they didn't keep .net up to date
19:18:00 <zid> and a lot of random unity stuff ends up using a lot of random .NET file i/o functions
19:18:00 <zid> that don't exist
19:18:00 <zid> on w7*
19:19:00 <geist> ah. was gonna say w10 should be fine
19:19:00 <geist> yeah eventually the old thing will just stop working in pieces, really a bummer
19:25:00 <heat> i like w11
19:25:00 <heat> i use the centered start menu
19:25:00 <heat> sue me
19:26:00 <zid> disregard that, I heard they force enabled taskbar grouping
19:26:00 <zid> completely sinful
19:28:00 <nortti> I think they added ungrouping back recently
19:28:00 <heat> real talk what's your favourite UNIX variant
19:28:00 <nortti> or maybe it was what was going to be in the next version that I saw
19:32:00 <geist> nortti: yeah i'm eagerly awaiting that. every time it updates it check to see if that's there
19:32:00 <geist> i hate the grouped window thing
19:34:00 <geist> my general other observartion is explorer file browser doesn't seem as stable. i think it may have been rewritten since w10
19:34:00 <geist> seems to get stuck, crash, etc more often
19:35:00 <zid> That's just the 14 bonzi buddies you have running
19:35:00 <geist> possible, also i have a lot of network drives off the nas box, so that tends to add a wrinkle
19:36:00 <gog> solaris
19:36:00 <heat> good choice gog
19:36:00 <heat> the bestest good option
19:37:00 <heat> the un-pessima- wait wrong word
19:37:00 <heat> the un-bad
19:37:00 <heat> also bonzi buddy for solaris when
19:38:00 <heat> holy fucking shitttttttt
19:38:00 <bslsk05> ​ Just a moment...
19:39:00 <gog> oh yeah
19:39:00 <gog> i want a bonzi buddy nft
19:39:00 <gog> give me that sweet, sweet valueless value
19:40:00 <gog> i love a self-contradictary product
19:47:00 <gog> ooh we should buy all the used itanium kit and use shitloads of electricity to lose money trying to mine crypto
19:48:00 <zid> I mean, if you owned a very popular ape
19:48:00 <zid> around the time the NFT scam was hyping up
19:48:00 <zid> unless you were INCREDIBLY ethical.. you'd mint some bonzi buddy nfts
19:49:00 <heat> crypto miners are itanium-optimized
19:49:00 <heat> it'd be OPTIMAL
19:50:00 <heat> we could do it in HP-UX too
19:50:00 <heat> holy shit yes
19:50:00 <heat> dual PA-RISC/ITAAAAAANIUUUUUUM HP-UX crypto mining farm
19:50:00 <heat> who says no
20:00:00 <ChavGPT>
20:00:00 <bslsk05> ​'Yasser shares some hilarious stories' by chessbrah (00:08:25)
20:15:00 <gog> hi
20:15:00 <sortie> compiling kernels on my sortix uefi laptop
20:15:00 <sortie> wyd
20:20:00 <gog> crying a little
20:21:00 <zid> Come on gog, there's no need for that.
20:21:00 <zid> Cry a lot.
20:21:00 <zid> You can do it, we believe in you.
20:34:00 <heat> sortie, build onyx
20:34:00 <heat> show dominance
20:35:00 <zid> osdev relay race
20:35:00 <zid> you have to build the next OS in the list and then pass the image you made along
20:35:00 <heat> #osdev would be more fun if we had challenges but sadly no one but me does osdev here
20:35:00 <zid> because you won't engage with me
20:36:00 <heat> i am fully engaged to you
20:36:00 <heat> i mean with you
20:36:00 <heat> typo oopsie haha
20:52:00 <heat> when doing LRU how do you handle pages that are in use?
20:53:00 <heat> lets say you're going through the list, doing reclamation, how do you make sure 1) they're not in use 2) they won't be in use while you handle freeing
20:53:00 <zid> keep track, silly
20:54:00 <zid> but surely the point of an LRU is that potentially it's *all* in use
20:54:00 <zid> and you're evicting hoping it won't get faulted back in soon
20:54:00 <heat> i guess if they're held in an object you can just lock that so nothing touches it in the meanwhile?
20:54:00 <heat> which solves 2), but doesn't really handle the 1)
20:54:00 <zid> what are you LRUing?
20:54:00 <heat> like if going through the list and you see a page with ref > 1, do you spin?
20:54:00 <heat> pages
20:55:00 <zid> so what's the problem?
20:55:00 <zid> They might all be in use, them might not be in use at all, the point of the LRU is to make educated guesses as to which are which
20:55:00 <heat> yes, i know
20:55:00 <heat> my problem is with concurrency
20:55:00 <zid> that isn't what you said at all though
20:56:00 <heat> maybe i misspoke a bit
20:56:00 <zid> stare at clock, clock will make you feel better
20:56:00 <bslsk05> ​ s32 unix clock
20:56:00 <heat> when I mean *are in use*, I mean *are pinned due to someone temporarily touching that shit*
20:56:00 <zid> we're about to roll over the green hand
20:56:00 <heat> unex
20:56:00 <zid> if they're pinned, taking the lock will fail, and you know it's not as un-used as you thought?
20:56:00 <zid> so you can just move on down the list to the next-recently-uesd?
20:57:00 <heat> yeah maybe trying and skipping is the solution
20:57:00 <zid> I missed the orange hand rolling over :(
20:58:00 <zid> 2 hours ago
21:06:00 <sham1> UNEX
21:06:00 <sham1> BEST KERNAL
21:25:00 <kof13> > #osdev would be more fun if we had challenges
21:26:00 <kof13> > but my kinda-reduced test kernel is 10MiB
21:26:00 <kof13> make a reflective self-compiling c89. 10 MB is fair for a start. people have different goals :D
21:32:00 <kof13> emphasis on reflective: this pleasant colour of the wild poppy of the Rock, this Tyrian, sparkling and flaming colour, which is incapable of Alternation or change, over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power, whose bright shining rays, that dazzle the eyes, seem as though they did communicate unto a man some supercelestial thing, making him (when he beholds and knows it) to be astonished, to trembl
21:32:00 <kof13> e, and to be afraid at the same time.
22:17:00 <geist> hmm, 10MB is still pretty big
22:18:00 <geist> or is this 10MB linux or something?
22:23:00 <kof13> it was a heat quote :D i don't know what he all has, just that is probably large for me
22:24:00 <kof13> for something interpreted, i would want a "vm" run-time less than that (as far as code size)
22:25:00 <kof13> maybe me limit is useful with 64M ram, but that is arbitrary just because i have some sbc with that
22:25:00 <kof13> *my "useful with 64M ram"
22:43:00 <kof13> it was more meant as some people are trying to break free of the gcc/clang/whatever dragon > over which the heaven itself, nor his Zodiac, can have no more domination nor power,
23:16:00 <gorgonical> I think I don't really understand how arm's shareability notions work
23:17:00 <gorgonical> My understanding: core 0 maps PA 0x1000 to VA 0xfff...1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry. core 1 maps PA 0x1000 to e.g. VA 0x1000, with inner-shareable on the pt entry
23:18:00 <gorgonical> If the memory attribute says write-back cacheable, shouldn't the hardware ensure cache coherency? I shouldn't, as software, have to insert dsb(ish) everywhere, right?
23:26:00 <zid> I don't know arm, but it definitely sounds like you're mixing two or more concepts together there
23:28:00 <zid> oh hmm maybe not, reading some stuff
23:28:00 <zid> this is all incestuous as hell