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Monday, 18 September 2023

00:20:00 <Ermine> de wat
02:25:00 <cloudowind> osdevers quite tonight
03:52:00 <geist> trying to figure out how to build marlin firmware for my board
03:53:00 <geist> since like 100% of the guides are written for windows, i guess i'll have to do it there, grr
07:56:00 * cloudowind asking google about what marlin firmware is
07:57:00 <FireFly> 3D printer firmware thingy
07:57:00 <FireFly> I'm surprised the project wouldn't have generic build instructions though, but maybe needs something Special for the board in question I guess
07:57:00 <cloudowind> yea seems like
07:58:00 <cloudowind> geist got a 3d printer then
07:59:00 <zid> idk, a lot of commercial embd stuff is just heavily tied to random windows apps written by some guy in china
07:59:00 <zid> and there's no docs for what it does
08:00:00 <zid> And the instructions are please run "MegaSerialFlash 2000.exe" and follow the prompts.
08:10:00 <geist> yeah the marlin firmware apparently originally started as an ardiuno sketch but grew past that, since it supports like 10000 different configurations
08:10:00 <gog> hi
08:10:00 <geist> so apparently you can still build it with arduino, if it's AVR, but the newer ARM boards require something called PlatformIO which I hadn't heard about
08:10:00 <geist> seems to be some sort of embedded/IOT/etc library/engine/build system thing
08:11:00 <geist> anyway i tried to build it on linux using the command line, but really seems that everyone just uses vscode + some sort of extension that automates everything
08:11:00 <geist> i grudgingly accepted that and it builds pretty easily. edit a huge Configuration.h file and push a button
08:11:00 * geist shrugs
08:12:00 <FireFly> apparently there's another 3D printer firmware people use now
08:13:00 <FireFly> ah klipper
08:13:00 <FireFly> but yeah, reasonable to just give up and go with the thing that everyone else does tbh
08:15:00 <cloudowind> wb gog
08:16:00 <gog> it's Monday morning please kill me
08:16:00 <kazinsal> i refuse
08:16:00 * kazinsal hugs gog instead
08:16:00 * gog prr
08:17:00 <kazinsal> nya~
08:23:00 <zid> but monday is mynesday
08:23:00 <zid> And last week we just hit the part where they basically said the name of the novel, and the reaction shots are all this week
08:53:00 <cloudowind> Left_Turn very interesting nick you have chosen to yourself
08:54:00 <Left_Turn> :)
12:13:00 <puck> geist: the platformio cli is pretty good imo, and has been pretty stable to me, and at least lets you do arduino avr stuff from cli easily (better than just having a .ino :p)
14:29:00 <mcrod> hi
14:29:00 <gog> hi mcrod may i hug you
14:29:00 <mcrod> of course
14:29:00 * mcrod hugs gog
14:29:00 * gog hug mcrod
14:52:00 <sham1> hi
14:52:00 <gog> hi
14:52:00 <mcrod> hi
14:53:00 <mcrod> sham1: one day we will write ANSI C and be happy together
15:09:00 <heat> LINUX KERNELLLLL
15:09:00 <heat> here's a funny mitigation i found out about yesterday:
15:09:00 <bslsk05> ​ Libc/stdio/FreeBSD/vfprintf.c at master · apple-open-source-mirror/Libc · GitHub
15:10:00 <heat> glibc has the same thing but needs to parse /proc text!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!!!1111111
15:26:00 <mcrod> you're a weird guy
15:30:00 <gog> lonix
15:32:00 <netbsduser`> heat: the quintessential problem of linux
15:32:00 <gog> should i be using netbsd instead
15:32:00 <gog> can i play factorio on it
15:33:00 <netbsduser`> when i ported systemd to the 5 BSDs i was able to replicate a set of functions for grabbing process data (on gnu/linux by reading /proc) in an eighth of the sloc-count using kvm/libproc
15:34:00 <gog> i read a thread of poeple arguing about initware
15:34:00 <gog> on reddit i think
15:34:00 <gog> you can't win
15:34:00 <netbsduser`> it inflamed a lot of senseless passions
15:34:00 <gog> i hate computers
15:34:00 <gog> why did i get into this godforsaken field
15:34:00 <netbsduser`> one guy compared me to, and i quote from memory, "jezebel, who undid israel in a day with idol worship"
15:35:00 <gog> whaa
15:35:00 <gog> that's unhinged
15:36:00 <mcrod> gog: one of my favorite pastimes is to play with really old hardware
15:36:00 <netbsduser`> the really sad part is that i have informed and sensible critiques of systemd on the repo wiki
15:36:00 <mcrod> it reminds me of a simpler time, where complicated things had to happen on terrible hardware
15:36:00 <mcrod> and it *worked*
15:37:00 <gog> i'm gonna get an itanium
15:37:00 <netbsduser`> indeed there is a roadmap there with am ambitious plan to completely and utterly refactor the thing
15:37:00 <mcrod> my packard bell is a treasure
16:04:00 <kof13> i would imagine it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but if they are idolizing an os then, well... projection :D
16:18:00 <Ermine> itanium fsys fsys itanium
16:18:00 <Ermine> gog: may I pet you
16:30:00 <gog> yes
16:31:00 <Ermine> heat: you have u8 in onyx. Maybe I misunderstood your take on how to name those types
16:31:00 * Ermine pets gog
16:33:00 * gog prr
17:01:00 <mcrod> i still say shortening those types is just a waste of time
17:01:00 <mcrod> whoop-de-doo, 5 characters
17:02:00 <mcrod> er, disregard that one
17:07:00 <Ermine> "4.3BSD and 4.4BSD implement pipes with Unix domain sockets"
17:37:00 <heat> lol
17:37:00 <heat> Ermine, what?
17:37:00 <heat> what's the problem with u8?
17:38:00 <Ermine> Iirc you didn't like it
17:38:00 <Ermine> Am I wrong?
17:38:00 <heat> my take is that I dislike uint8_t but like u8 because it's just much shorter and easier to type
17:38:00 <heat> yes
17:38:00 <Ermine> ok, sorry then
17:38:00 <heat> SHAME ON YOU
17:38:00 <heat> how do you not know my preferences smh
17:41:00 <ChavGPT> u8 too ez to make a typo when you meant u16
17:41:00 <ChavGPT> trust me, i'm a geezer
17:42:00 <heat> u_int8_t >>
17:42:00 <ChavGPT> u_int_EIGHT_t
17:42:00 <ChavGPT> there you go
17:42:00 <ChavGPT> no type confusion
17:43:00 <heat> UNSIGNED_INTEGER*
17:43:00 <ChavGPT> or pull off a php and replace EIGHT with the same word in hebrew
17:43:00 <heat> int is too easy to typo to when writing float
17:43:00 <ChavGPT> i am agreed
17:43:00 <ChavGPT> but there is no float_EIGHT
17:43:00 <ChavGPT> so int_EIGHT is safe
17:44:00 <heat>
17:44:00 <heat> WRONG
17:44:00 <bslsk05> ​ [2209.05433] FP8 Formats for Deep Learning
17:44:00 <ChavGPT> oh no
17:45:00 <ChavGPT> wtf 'bookmark on reddit'
17:45:00 <Ermine> UINT8
17:46:00 <ChavGPT> UI8NT
17:53:00 <kof13> you guys are all anti-c89 with your fixed-width types
17:53:00 * kof13 hears more geezer than geezer playing in the background
18:15:00 <ChavGPT> foo(bar)
18:15:00 <ChavGPT> int bar;
18:15:00 <ChavGPT> amirite
18:16:00 <kof13> that's like 3x geezer, i am maybe 1.5
18:16:00 <ChavGPT> i have been doing kernel programming for 30 years,t herefore i always i know better
18:17:00 <ChavGPT> and i'm totally not stuck in lol ways
18:44:00 <Ermine> heat, dumb question: implementing pipe_read_iter through iterating over iter and doing pipe::read on each iovec is wrong solution, right? Seems like read_iter_emul does the same thing
19:05:00 <heat> Ermine, no
19:05:00 <heat> read_iter_emul is a wrong solution as it's not POSIX compliant
19:06:00 <heat> POSIX says that readv({2 bytes, 2 bytes}) must behave in a similar way to read(4 bytes)
19:06:00 <heat> lets say you have a pipe with 2 bytes then
19:06:00 <heat> read(4 bytes) = 2 bytes
19:06:00 <heat> proper readv({2 bytes, 2 bytes}) = 2 bytes
19:06:00 <heat> read_iter_emul({2 bytes, 2 bytes}) will read 2 bytes and then block waiting for 2 more bytes
19:06:00 <heat> hence wrong
19:07:00 <heat> since read_iter_emul calls ->read()
19:08:00 <Ermine> I see
19:11:00 <heat> it's just a cheap solution to make readv/writev kinda work on files that don't implement the proper solution yet
19:11:00 <heat> linux has the same thing, BSDs probably have it too
20:35:00 <Jari--> hello all
20:40:00 <heat> hi
21:10:00 <zid> mynesday woo
21:11:00 <cloudowind> morning
21:13:00 <gog> meow
21:14:00 <Ermine> gog: may I pet you
21:18:00 <gog> Ermine: yes
21:19:00 <mcrod> i hate strings.
21:21:00 <heat> hi mcrod what brings you here tonight
21:23:00 <ChavGPT> pets
21:23:00 <heat> hi ChavGPT what brings you here tonight
21:23:00 <heat> what are we hating on
21:24:00 <ChavGPT> hm
21:24:00 <ChavGPT> there is an unfunny bug in freebsd which perhaps yu would be interested in workign on
21:24:00 <ChavGPT> in devfs :X
21:25:00 <heat> what bug
21:25:00 <ChavGPT>
21:25:00 <bslsk05> ​ 273418 – [panic] Repeating kernel panic on open(/dev/console)
21:26:00 <ChavGPT> title is misleading in the sense this is not cat /dev/console and it crashes
21:26:00 <ChavGPT> there is a geezer liveness management in there which needs unfucking
21:26:00 * Ermine pets gog
21:26:00 <heat> ok im out then
21:27:00 <heat> i'm not unfucking anything
21:27:00 <ChavGPT> :)
21:27:00 <ChavGPT> you made the right call
21:27:00 <heat> i already have a pending unfuck on the linux elf loader
21:28:00 <ChavGPT> lmao
21:28:00 <heat> there's a new bug
21:28:00 <ChavGPT> i take it back
21:28:00 <heat>
21:28:00 <bslsk05> ​ [PATCH RFC] binfmt_elf: fully allocate bss pages - Thomas Weißschuh
21:28:00 <heat> the fix is completely wrong btw
21:28:00 <Ermine> I'm thinking of adding 'make tags' target to onyx's makefile
21:29:00 <ChavGPT> tags with what mofer
21:29:00 <heat> why?
21:29:00 <heat> you're supposed to use clangd
21:29:00 <heat> i have a whole llvm toolchain with clangd and wrapping the make with bear works fine
21:30:00 <heat> <heat> i have a whole llvm toolchain with clangd(1) and wrapping the make(1) with bear(1) works fine
21:30:00 <heat> bsd'ed it for you ChavGPT
21:30:00 <Ermine> In vim? If I find non-shitty extension to integrate with clangd
21:31:00 <heat> i mean i got LSP to work fine in neovim
21:31:00 <heat> i don't know about vim though
21:31:00 <heat> sorry, vim(1)
21:31:00 <heat> one must always refer to the manpages
21:31:00 <heat> man(1)pages
21:31:00 <Ermine> isn't clangd 8 or something
21:32:00 <mcrod> heat: nothing
21:32:00 <mcrod> I just hate strings in C
21:32:00 <heat> clangd(1) isn't a traditional daemon so probably not?
21:32:00 <mcrod> nothing's wrong... just, I hate strings
21:32:00 <heat> >No manual entry for clangd
21:32:00 <mcrod> because no one can agree on a Right Way for anything
21:32:00 <heat> that settles it, they're not UNIX boomers
21:33:00 <heat> is that C or C++ mcrod
21:33:00 <heat> because i understand the C strings hate, i truly do
21:33:00 <heat> C++ is a lot more palatable due to std::string but still
21:33:00 <mcrod> don't use strcmp because what if no null terminator, don't use strncpy because it doesn't produce null terminated strings, you shouldn't need str* at all because you should always know the size of your strings and can use the more efficient mem* funcs
21:33:00 <mcrod> and it goes on
21:34:00 <mcrod> er, strncpy doesn't guarantee that the result will be null terminated*
21:35:00 <heat> don't take advice too literally
21:35:00 <mcrod> and there's probably some hidden rule I'm forgetting
21:35:00 <mcrod> which is buried deep in some old fart's brain
21:35:00 <heat> >don't use strcmp because what if no null terminator
21:35:00 <mcrod> yes I know
21:35:00 <heat> this is C, strings are always null terminated implicitly
21:35:00 <heat> >don't use strncpy because it doesn't produce null terminated strings,
21:35:00 <heat> i agree
21:35:00 <heat> strncpy is ass
21:36:00 <heat> >you shouldn't need str* at all because you should always know the size of your strings and can use the more efficient mem* funcs
21:36:00 <heat> bullshit.jpeg
21:36:00 <mcrod> I'm rattling off talking points
21:36:00 <mcrod> that one is an ulrich drepper one
21:36:00 <mcrod> he's wrong, obviously
21:36:00 <Ermine> I end up knowing string sizes usually
21:36:00 <ChavGPT> ulrich is my fav programmer
21:36:00 <ChavGPT> i just use rust
21:36:00 <ChavGPT> all problemd dodged
21:37:00 <heat> you should like take advice less literally, because sometimes it applies, other times it doesn't
21:37:00 <heat> you can't try to be dogmatic about things
21:37:00 <Ermine> RUUUUUUUUUST
21:37:00 <heat> like "goto sucks don't use it!!!!!!!"
21:37:00 <heat> C error handling without goto is like, horrendous
21:38:00 <heat> but would I tell you to use goto loops? probably not, kill it with fire LINUX IDIOTS^W^W
21:38:00 <Ermine> I was taught that goto sucks and you shouldn't use it, so when I first time saw it in real code, I was shoked
21:38:00 <Ermine> shocked*
21:38:00 <ChavGPT> people who tell you to not use goto in c are webdevs
21:38:00 <mcrod> there isn't a *hint* of goto in the embedded shit at work
21:38:00 <mcrod> because MISRA compliance
21:38:00 <heat> people who tell you to not use goto in C are not C programmers
21:38:00 <ChavGPT> i was told in college goto is not used
21:38:00 <mcrod> oh shut up
21:38:00 <mcrod> embedded counts
21:38:00 <heat> no fuck you mcrod
21:38:00 <ChavGPT> unfortunately for the fucking PHD i had my laptop
21:38:00 <mcrod> we're real too
21:39:00 <heat> embedded? more like cringedded
21:39:00 <ChavGPT> i told the guy linux is full of goto for error handling
21:39:00 <heat> how many cores does your code scale to?
21:39:00 <ChavGPT> then he asked when was the last commit with goto
21:39:00 <ChavGPT> and it was pretty fresh
21:39:00 <Ermine> Anyway, goto is to be used carefully, it can turn code into spaghetti if abused
21:39:00 * gog prr
21:39:00 <ChavGPT> heat even mcrod admits wmbedded is webdev of osdev
21:39:00 <ChavGPT> innit
21:39:00 <gog> webosdev
21:39:00 <Ermine> OS.js when
21:40:00 <mcrod> there are things we simply _are not allowed to do_ if we want to maintain MISRA compliance
21:40:00 <heat> there's a v8 OS out there
21:40:00 <mcrod> a lot of the rules are pretty choice
21:40:00 <heat> unfortunately they beat me to the punch
21:40:00 <mcrod> *however*
21:40:00 <Ermine> Akshually it exists
21:40:00 <mcrod> some of them are slighly ridiculous
21:40:00 <mcrod> slightly*
21:40:00 <mcrod> so much so to the point that until you read the footnotes of some, you'll laugh out of your chair
21:41:00 <heat> give me one
21:41:00 <mcrod> "all code must be compiled without compiler extensions of any kind"
21:41:00 <heat> i understand the goto stuff because give a bad C programmer goto and they will abuse it
21:41:00 <ChavGPT> don't use git
21:42:00 <ChavGPT> :X
21:42:00 <heat> jesus fuck MISRA
21:42:00 <mcrod> note: we are in embedded
21:42:00 <mcrod> what did I just say
21:42:00 <mcrod> "until you read the footnotes of some"
21:42:00 <heat> what's the footnote?
21:42:00 <mcrod> they make explicit exceptions for that stuff where it is absolutely required
21:42:00 <heat> ChavGPT, BSD guidelines?
21:42:00 <heat> use CVS, it's really good
21:42:00 <ChavGPT> bro
21:42:00 <heat> tag everything with $FreeBSD$
21:42:00 <ChavGPT> want some geezer
21:42:00 <ChavGPT> there was a write up why use svn over git
21:42:00 <ChavGPT> and it was full of geezer points
21:43:00 <heat> i use got
21:43:00 <mcrod> heat: I have a copy of MISRA C 2023 if you want to peruse
21:43:00 <mcrod> however, be aware that I had to pay for this and I'd appreciate it if it didn't land on the internet with my name on it :)
21:43:00 <mcrod> because the PDF says "LICENSED TO MICHAEL RODRIGUEZ"
21:43:00 <Ermine> heat: is bsd' __RCSID shit also stems from CVS? Or is it even more ancient?
21:43:00 <ChavGPT> can't find it
21:44:00 <heat> mcrod, yeah i won't take that sorry
21:44:00 <Ermine> Even recommends git over svn
21:44:00 <heat> particularly as you've just announced in a logged channel that you're willing to do illegal shit
21:44:00 <Ermine> so, consensus
21:44:00 <mcrod> heat: :)
21:44:00 <ChavGPT> Ermine: where
21:44:00 <heat> like, weird move pal, there's a pm feature in IRC
21:44:00 <heat> or DM if you're under 30
21:45:00 <ChavGPT> and over 12
21:45:00 <Ermine> ChavGPT: what where
21:45:00 <ChavGPT> Ermine: 23:44 < Ermine> Even recommends git over svn
21:45:00 <ChavGPT> heat: btw all that $FreeBSD$ stuff recently got removed
21:45:00 <ChavGPT> heat: it was a cvs leftover
21:45:00 <mcrod> i find that the suckless people are nutty people
21:45:00 <gog> succless
21:46:00 <ChavGPT> succcessless
21:46:00 <ChavGPT> :
21:46:00 <ChavGPT> X
21:46:00 <heat> mcrod, naziful
21:46:00 <mcrod> that too
21:46:00 <mcrod> i forgot about that
21:46:00 <Ermine> ChavGPT:, section 'Version control'. Well, correction: it says that svn sucks, but tells nothing about git
21:46:00 <bslsk05> ​ software that sucks less | software that sucks less
21:47:00 <mcrod> i remember I stopped using dmenu because of the nazi ties from suckless
21:47:00 <Ermine> Also this:
21:47:00 <bslsk05> ​ minix/bin/sh/cd.c at master · Stichting-MINIX-Research-Foundation/minix · GitHub
21:48:00 <Ermine> static char sccsid[]
21:48:00 <heat> Ermine,
21:48:00 <ChavGPT> them claiming svn sucks is pretty much expected
21:48:00 <Ermine> It's posix btw
21:48:00 <Ermine> heat: ^
21:49:00 <heat> sccs is posix?
21:49:00 <heat>
21:49:00 <heat> ew
21:49:00 <bslsk05> ​ sccs
21:50:00 <heat> sccs and its associated utilities are part of the XSI Development Utilities option within the XSI option.
21:50:00 <heat> oh ok not strictly POSIX, just XSI
21:50:00 <ChavGPT> L Mao
21:50:00 <ChavGPT> btw fuckkkz i'm working on a proposal to posix
21:51:00 <ChavGPT> watch out heat i may get another lwn mention from it :X
21:51:00 <heat> really?
21:51:00 <Ermine> opendir_r wen
21:51:00 <heat> what are u workin on
21:51:00 <ChavGPT> 's a trivial addition mon
21:51:00 <heat> Ermine, wdym opendir_r?
21:51:00 <ChavGPT> lolcode keeps using getconf(_SC_PROCESSORS_ONLN) or similar to spawn lol workers
21:51:00 <ChavGPT> and i'm gonna propose something which respects cpusets 'n shit
21:52:00 <heat> kool
21:52:00 <Ermine> like opendir, but you provide buffer for DIR
21:52:00 <ChavGPT> it is a recurring problem and there should be no need to handroll per-system solution for it
21:52:00 <heat> have fun lmao
21:52:00 <ChavGPT> bro
21:52:00 <ChavGPT> i expect nothing but idiotic non-arguments against it
21:52:00 <heat> Ermine, why?
21:52:00 <ChavGPT> there is nothing to it from tech pov
21:52:00 <Ermine> opendir() has to allocate heap memory
21:54:00 <heat> fopen is the same shit
21:54:00 <heat> ChavGPT, add it to freebsd and linux and then we'll see?
21:55:00 <Ermine> Well, you can open() shit and manage buffers yourself
21:55:00 <heat> POSIX-mandated features are horrendous and depressing and they should stop doing that
21:55:00 <Ermine> in dir case, there's no such option
21:55:00 <cloudowind> in c?
21:55:00 <heat> that's a POSIX problem isn't it
21:55:00 <ChavGPT> heat: i do plan to start with glibc
21:56:00 <heat> and the fact is that there's no standard syscall to read directory entries
21:56:00 <heat> particularly one by one as readdir wants you to
21:56:00 <heat> also IIRC the struct dirent * definition is also kind of messy and left unspecified in POSIX
21:56:00 <Ermine> Yes, this is posix problem
21:59:00 <Ermine> DIR and struct dirent are opaque afaik
22:00:00 <heat> struct dirent isn't completely opaque
22:00:00 <heat> a few members are defined
22:00:00 <heat> ino_t d_ino File serial number.
22:00:00 <heat> char d_name[] Filename string of entry.
22:00:00 <heat> this is all you need for POSIX compliance
22:09:00 <heat> im impressed the openbsd people went and made got slightly incompatible with git
22:09:00 <heat> just to confuse people
22:11:00 <Ermine> heat:
22:13:00 <heat> based skarnet
22:20:00 <heat>
22:20:00 <bslsk05> ​Note by warthog9: "@jann vger is a particularly busy set of mailing lists, on a daily basis it will send literally millions of emails to individual addresses. Gmail has a lot of users, and thus w[…]"
22:20:00 <heat> this is fuckin erm depressing and explains why a bunch of linux-efi mail never reached me
22:22:00 <zid> gmail should just have a mailing list api tbh
22:23:00 <zid> like, they absorbed all of google groups
22:24:00 <zid> I could just type into google, "" to browse those mailing lists or whatever, saves them tens millions of emails
22:26:00 <zid> basically, vger sends a single email to gmail, and any gmail user can subscribe internally to those lists
22:26:00 <heat> but then they implemented an API without consulting anything and then google bad destroying the internet
22:27:00 <heat> and this affects what could be rounded to 0% of everyone
22:27:00 <zid> It's literally the same as google groups
22:27:00 <zid> identicals
23:02:00 <ChavGPT> heat: ey heat, did you know openbsd vfork does not skip copying the address space
23:02:00 <ChavGPT> heat: it literally is just fork with waiting for the parent
23:02:00 <ChavGPT> heat: l m a o
23:03:00 <heat> what
23:03:00 <ChavGPT> check it out mon
23:04:00 <heat>
23:04:00 <bslsk05> ​ NetBSD Documentation: Why implement traditional vfork()
23:04:00 <ChavGPT>
23:04:00 <bslsk05> ​ Super User's BSD Cross Reference: /OpenBSD/sys/kern/kern_fork.c
23:04:00 <heat> openbsd fucking skipped this step?
23:04:00 <ChavGPT> the above branch is the only support for vfork
23:04:00 <ChavGPT> and of course FORK_PPWAIT to wait
23:04:00 <ChavGPT> but past that nothing
23:05:00 <ChavGPT> dude one channel over says netbsd implemented faster vfork *after* theo left
23:05:00 <heat> are you on #netbsd
23:05:00 <ChavGPT> no
23:05:00 <heat> is that the secret
23:06:00 <ChavGPT> i'm on a random channel which happens to have a bunch of bsd people
23:06:00 <heat> nice
23:06:00 <heat> im a bsd person too
23:06:00 <heat> bdsm*
23:06:00 <ChavGPT> git log
23:06:00 <ChavGPT> i got nothing in bsd
23:06:00 <ChavGPT> ok that makes sense
23:07:00 <moon-child> lies, that's three channels over
23:07:00 <ChavGPT> ey heat did you know moon-child is a freebsd user
23:07:00 <ChavGPT> lmao
23:07:00 <heat> yes
23:07:00 <mcrod> hi
23:08:00 <mcrod> i use freebsd
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> mcrod: what, you too
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> huh
23:08:00 <moon-child> no I'm running linux now
23:08:00 <gog> hi
23:08:00 <heat> he's the one freebsd user ever
23:08:00 <mcrod> yes
23:08:00 <heat> oh no
23:08:00 <mcrod> i've used freebsd since I was 14
23:08:00 <moon-child> freebsd was too annoying
23:08:00 <gog> i'm using linux
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> gogs nooo
23:08:00 <mcrod> but on servers
23:08:00 <heat> freebsd user count has dropped to 0
23:08:00 <moon-child> linux is also vv annoying
23:08:00 <moon-child> but
23:08:00 <gog> i never used freebsd full-time
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> mcrod: funny you say that, freebsd 14 is in the works ;)
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> moon-child: boo
23:08:00 <ChavGPT> moon-child: seriously though, what happened
23:09:00 <heat> i have VMs for the 3 BSDs i bother mentioning
23:09:00 <heat> sorry dragonfly
23:09:00 <gog> nooo dragonflybsd best bsd
23:09:00 <zid> Like I'll ever own a 200MHz Ppro, this isn't relevent to me
23:09:00 <gog> ok brb
23:09:00 <mcrod> i want to get a freenas
23:09:00 <mcrod> well, truenas now
23:10:00 <mcrod> file server? ZFS all the way
23:10:00 <ChavGPT> that's on linux now btw ;)
23:10:00 <moon-child> I might get a 200mhz ppro, but I never build my own libc, so
23:10:00 <heat> AHHHAH
23:10:00 <heat> AHHHHHH
23:10:00 <mcrod> they have two flavors
23:10:00 <heat> NOT ANOTHER ZED EFF S USER
23:10:00 <ChavGPT> yo zfs is actually pretty dope if you don't look too closely at the warts
23:10:00 <mcrod> one is BSD, the other is linux
23:10:00 <ChavGPT> no sarcasm
23:10:00 <heat> zfs is ass
23:10:00 <mcrod> shut up
23:10:00 <moon-child> what's wrong with zedeffess
23:10:00 <heat> no filesystem needs to be that complex
23:11:00 <ChavGPT> fuck off heat
23:11:00 <heat> and i truly mean it
23:11:00 <ChavGPT> use openbsd\
23:11:00 <heat> the more moving parts the worse off everyone is
23:11:00 <mcrod> i really do want a NAS though
23:11:00 <heat> ext4 is perfect
23:11:00 <moon-child> heat: my filesystem can beat up your filesystem
23:11:00 <mcrod> in fact, I need one
23:11:00 <heat> it's simple enough and performant enough
23:11:00 <mcrod> but I want huge storage
23:11:00 <mcrod> huge I tell you
23:11:00 <heat> i'm willing to go as far as XFS
23:11:00 <heat> but anything past that gets a huge no
23:12:00 <Ermine> but snapshots with deltas...
23:12:00 <heat> also they ignored my bug report so 10 points to griffindor
23:12:00 <mcrod> I've thought about 18*8 TB
23:12:00 <mcrod> but... I don't have that kind of money
23:12:00 <mcrod> and if I did
23:12:00 <mcrod> my girlfriend would likely strangle me to death for spending that much
23:12:00 <heat> rightfully so
23:13:00 <mcrod> come on man
23:13:00 <mcrod> it's $8k
23:13:00 <mcrod> no big deal... right?
23:13:00 <gog> hi
23:13:00 <mcrod> hi gog may I hug you
23:13:00 <moon-child> ChavGPT: I don't even remember now--probably linuxulator compat was part of it
23:13:00 <heat> who needs 18*8TB
23:13:00 <mcrod> why not?
23:13:00 <mcrod> that's... a lifetime of storage
23:13:00 <gog> will your girlfriend kill you
23:13:00 <moon-child> oh and being an unofficial 3rd-party thing
23:13:00 <bslsk05> ​amshafer/nvidia-driver - Fork of the Nvidia FreeBSD driver to port the nvidia-drm.ko module from Linux (4 forks/38 stargazers)
23:13:00 <Ermine> is not rgistered
23:13:00 <heat> how much por^W files do you have
23:13:00 <mcrod> none
23:13:00 <mcrod> gog: no
23:14:00 <Ermine> isn't amshafer an nvidia employee?
23:14:00 <mcrod> we can hold hands if you want
23:14:00 <heat> didn't they release freebsd binaries?
23:14:00 <ChavGPT> they had SOLARIS binaries
23:14:00 <ChavGPT> for real
23:14:00 <ChavGPT> i think i might have used them
23:14:00 <heat>
23:14:00 <bslsk05> ​ FreeBSD x64 Graphics Driver Archive | NVIDIA
23:14:00 <moon-child> yeah but drm was linux-only
23:15:00 <moon-child> and cuda too
23:15:00 <mcrod> i'm still shocked that there are official BSD drivers for NVIDIA
23:15:00 <heat> huh?
23:15:00 <heat> so what do you get from the official one?
23:15:00 <Ermine> doesn't fbsd have drm?
23:15:00 <mcrod> i can't watch netflix on fbsd
23:15:00 <moon-child> mcrod: not that drm
23:15:00 <heat> l m a o
23:15:00 <moon-child> Ermine: yes but only for intel/amd
23:15:00 <Ermine> my keyboard typed fbad firstly btw
23:16:00 <heat> jesse, we need to install linux
23:16:00 <heat> wait
23:16:00 <heat> you don't know that reference, you can't use netflix on fbsd
23:16:00 <zid> my montior rn: "Feeling cute, might crash every 2 mins, idk"
23:16:00 <heat> Ermine, thanks for the new pun
23:16:00 <heat> FreeBAD
23:16:00 <ChavGPT> joke is on you, mcrod pirated the content years ago
23:16:00 <Ermine> can you use netflix on linux?
23:16:00 <heat> yes
23:16:00 <mcrod> yes
23:16:00 <Ermine> wow
23:16:00 <ChavGPT> hwo would you even know
23:16:00 <moon-child> risc-v is gonna change everything
23:17:00 <gog> mcrod then yes
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> do you do it by booting windows
23:17:00 * mcrod hugs gog
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> in a vm
23:17:00 * gog hug
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> now that you mention it, does netflix work on phones?
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> maybe that's why
23:17:00 <mcrod> honestly, I have my linux setup doing exactly what I want it to do and nothing more
23:17:00 <mcrod> and that's... rare
23:17:00 <heat> yes netflix works on phones ofc
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> aight
23:17:00 <Ermine> Every time I tried to watch movie I just rebooted to windows, because other streaming services didn't work for me
23:17:00 <ChavGPT> gog say something nice about bsd
23:17:00 <heat> mcrod fyi
23:17:00 <bslsk05> ​ <no title>
23:18:00 <heat> since you can't use netflix
23:18:00 <gog> it's not linux
23:18:00 <mcrod> i can use netflix :(
23:18:00 <gog> that's the nicest thing I can say
23:18:00 <mcrod> also heat if I would get an oversized NAS
23:18:00 <ChavGPT> bb sitll trending?
23:18:00 <ChavGPT> huh
23:18:00 <mcrod> I'll give you some space
23:18:00 <ChavGPT> oh right, the writer guidl strike
23:18:00 <mcrod> not that you'd ever use it, but hey
23:18:00 <ChavGPT> people have to watch old content
23:19:00 <moon-child> I never watched it, is it good?
23:19:00 <heat> the one piece live action thing is actually ok
23:19:00 <heat> even if sometimes cringe
23:20:00 <ChavGPT> moon-child: you for real dawg
23:24:00 <heat> you didn't answer my question
23:24:00 <heat> what does the official nvidia freebsd driver have if not DRM?
23:24:00 <heat> is it just a framebuffer + modesetting thing?
23:24:00 <zid> you will never trick me into watching a live action manga
23:25:00 <zid> aimed at very small children
23:28:00 <moon-child> heat: err I think it might be 'gbm' it doesn't have? idk--I stay far far away from graphics stack stuff
23:29:00 <moon-child> it is hardware accelerated (at least under x)